Typhlosion

Acklow

Acklow

I am always tired. Don't bother me.
Typhlosion

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This thread is for discussing Typhlosion and not how broken it may be or what tier it should be in. Also: This thread is supposed to replace this this one because it wasn't up to the Smogon Uncharted Territory Standards.

Abilities

Blaze-When Pokémon with this ability are at 1/3 HP or less, all of their Fire-type moves will have 50% more power.

Flash Fire-When this Pokémon is hit by a Fire-type move, it takes no damage, and all Fire-type moves used by this Pokémon deal 50% more damage. While subsequent hits by Fire-type moves will deal no damage, they will not provide a further increase in the damage of Fire-type attacks. Will-O-Wisp also activates Flash Fire, even through a Substitute; however, Flash Fire is not activated through Protect. If a frozen Pokemon is hit by a Fire-type attack, it will be defrosted and take damage without boosting Flash Fire. The power boost granted by Flash Fire is lost upon switching out.

Code: 
HP: 78
Atk: 84
Def: 78
SpAtk:109
SpDef:85
Spe:100
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Code: 
[B][U]Level Up Moves[/U][/B]
Lv1: Gyro Ball
Lv1: Tackle
Lv1: Leer
Lv1: Smokescreen
Lv1: Ember
Lv6: Smokescreen
Lv10: Ember
Lv13: Quick Attack
Lv20: Flame Wheel
Lv24: Defense Curl
Lv31: Swift
[B]Lv35: Nitro Charge[/B]
[B]Lv43: Lava Plume[/B]
[B]Lv48: Flamethrower[/B]
Lv56: Purgatory
Lv61: Rollout
Lv69: Double-Edge
[B]Lv74: Eruption[/B]


Code: 
[B][U]Egg Moves[/U][/B]
Fury Swipes
Quick Attack 
Reversal
Thrash
Foresight
Covet
Howl
Crush Claw
Double-Edge
Double Kick
Flare Blitz
Extrasensory
Nature Power
Fire Burst

Code: 
[B][U]Learnable TMs[/U][/B]
TM05 – Roar
[B]TM06 – Toxic[/B]
[B]TM10 - Hidden Power[/B]
[B]TM11 - Sunny Day[/B]
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 – Protect
TM21 – Frustration
[B]TM22 - Solar Beam[/B]
TM26 – Earthquake
TM27 – Return
TM28 – Dig
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM35 – Flamethower
[B]TM38 - Fire Blast[/B]
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM42 – Façade
[B]TM43 - Nitro Charge[/B]
TM44 – Rest
TM45 – Attract
TM48 – Troll
[B]TM50 – Overheat[/B]
[B]TM52 - Focus Blast[/B]
TM56 – Fling
TM59 - Complete Burn
[B]TM61 - Will-O-Wisp[/B]
TM65 - Shadow Claw
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM74 - Gyro Ball
TM78 - Smooth Over
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM87 - Swagger
[B]TM90 – Substitute[/B]
TM93 - Wild Bolt
TM94 - Rock Smash
HM01 – Cut
HM04 – Strength



Code: 
[B][U]Notable Moves[/U][/B]
[B]Nitro Charge[/B] - Physical – Fire - May raise the user's Speed.


Choice Scarf
Typhlosion @ Choice Scarf
Modest
Blaze/Flash Fire
EVs:
4 Def/252 SpAtk/252 Spe
Moves:
-Eruption
-Fire Blast
-Hidden Power Grass/Hidden Power Rock
-Focus Blast

Standard Scarf Set. However, Focus Punch is no longer a possible option because Focus Punch is no longer a TM. This means, all the EVs that went into attack before can go into Speed.
Blaze is used over Flash Fire so that Typhlosion is able to hit hard when it is at full health or at low health. Flash Fire is used if you plan on having Typhlosion come in to snag a boost and to make him an instant threat.


Sunny Day
Typhlosion @ Life Orb/Heat Rock
Timid
Flash Fire
EVs:
4 Def/252 SpAtk/252 Spe
Moves:
-Sunny Day/Substitute
-Fire Blast/Flamethrower
-Hidden Power Rock
-SolarBeam

Standard Sunny Day. This set is now better since Ninetails has Drought as an ability. If you DO plan on running Ninetails, Substitute is obviously the better option. Flash Fire is used rather than Blaze because he can cover Grass type weaknesses.


Choice Specs
Typhlosion @ Choice Specs
Timid/Modest
Flash Fire/Blaze
EVs:
4 Def/252 SpAtk/252 Spe
Moves:
-Overheat/Eruption
-Focus Blast
-Flamethrower
-Hidden Power Grass/Hidden Power Rock

Standard Choice Specs set. Taken straight from the analysis. Since Overheat is usually the main choice (over Eruption), Flash Fire would be used with it for the immediate threat. However, if you plan on having Typhlosion stay around enough to have less than 25% HP, then Eruption and Blaze would be the better option, for a battle based more on HP.




Comments:
Typhlosion receives a few new boosts this generation. Most notably, Flash Fire. Nitro Change is a good move, but seeing as Typhlosion is much more Specially based means that Typhlosion is better off utilizing other moves. Typhlosion still suffers from a hampered movepool. Losing Focus Punch means it can't run a Sub-Punch set or use it to take on any of its counters. Thus Hidden Power is a largely needed move. Focus Blast also provides a decent coverage, taking out Heatran. It will probably remain in the lower tiers because most other fire-types do a better job being offensive. Typhlosion works as a decent fire-type revenger, utilizing the scarf pretty well.
 
Ok...

Flash Fire is cool for Typhlosion. Defintivately going to be the standard ability.
Other than that, Typhlosion stays the same. It gets even moore competition now with Solar Power Charizard, i guess.
 
What about a SubPetaya modified set for Typlosion? I see something along the lines of....

Modest/Blaze
252/252 in Speed and SpA, 4 in HP
Petaya Berry
Nitro Charge/Substitute/Fire Blast or Flamethrower/Focus Blast or HP Rock or HP Grass

This is mainly going to work better in the lower tiers as a Late-Game cleanup after the enemy Shandaara/Heatran (Depending on which coverage move you pick) and bulky waters are eliminated or severely weakened. Sub up on your first turn coming in, and fire off a Nitro Charge on the switch. Sitting at +1 speed, proceed to sub down to the Petaya Berry, and sweep. HP Rock is for Moltres/Shandaara who would otherwise wall a Focus Blast set, and Focus Blast grants excellent coverage outside the bird/ghost, as well as getting the kill on Heatran.
 
I would say "other thread" but this thread is so much better than the other one.

Typhlosion got a few nifty tools to play with in Black and White. Flash Fire is a definite must on Typhlosion, and after a boost Eruption will start hurting even the bulkiest of of waters. Nitro Charge is also another nifty move, boosting Typhlosion's already stellar speed to higher levels. (Shame it was a physical attack)

He may not be the best, but Typhlosion is still "usable." (Moreso in the lower tiers)

Also... where the fuck is Earthpower? It's a damn shame he didn't get this gen, because it would have been invaluable on him.
 
Colonel Darren said:
What about a SubPetaya modified set for Typlosion? I see something along the lines of....

Modest/Blaze
252/252 in Speed and SpA, 4 in HP
Petaya Berry
Nitro Charge/Substitute/Fire Blast or Flamethrower/Focus Blast or HP Rock or HP Grass

This is mainly going to work better in the lower tiers as a Late-Game cleanup after the enemy Shandaara/Heatran (Depending on which coverage move you pick) and bulky waters are eliminated or severely weakened. Sub up on your first turn coming in, and fire off a Nitro Charge on the switch. Sitting at +1 speed, proceed to sub down to the Petaya Berry, and sweep. HP Rock is for Moltres/Shandaara who would otherwise wall a Focus Blast set, and Focus Blast grants excellent coverage outside the bird/ghost, as well as getting the kill on Heatran.
Click to expand...



Sub Petaya is viable. I didn't list it because I meant to only show what sets would be TRULY changed due to Gen 5.
 
Acklow said:
Sub Petaya is viable. I didn't list it because I meant to only show what sets would be TRULY changed due to Gen 5.
Click to expand...

I realize. I merely stated it as a way of showing how Nitro Charge could help Typhlosion in Gen 5, boosting his speed to match/surpass the relatively quicker new Pokemon that seem rather abundant. I realize that perhaps it's too little a change however. Flash Fire seems the biggest tool given at this point in time.
 
Full HP Flash Fire Eruption in the sun without any boosting item does 57.6% - 67.8% to Blissey and can OHKO her if Typhlosion is carrying specs. With an accessible Drought user and its awesome new ability this might even prove to be a renewed threat.

With Flare Blitz and Wild Bolt a physical variant, or at least a mixed one, can prove viable. Pure speculation to be honest.
 
The fact that every starter got a different ability instead of Blaze/Torrent/Overgrow will make them far more useful, and also boost their rank on the tier, even through I don't think Thyplosion will change so much, because Arcanine outclasses him even more now that he has lost Focus Punch.
He has still got Eruption to difference himself from other UU firetypes.
 
I don't think Arc and Typh are really in a competition with one another. Arc is the bulkier heavy hitter (thanks to Intimidate) while Typh is generally the fast special hitter (as it's scarf set is generally the one people see, or at least the one I see). What kept Typh down before (and what's still likely to keep him down) is SR killing his Eruption's power, not Arc's presence.

I guess what I mean to say is they don't do the same jobs and wouldn't be fighting for the same spot on the team with one another IMO.
 
Arcanine outclasses Typhlosion physically and in bulk, yet Typh has a clear advantage when it comes to non-priority speed and Special Attack. They do not take the same methods of play, and do completely different duties other than being a Fire Type.
 
Is the choice between Blaze and Flash Fire really as obvious as we are making out?

I always liked how the combination of Eruption and Blaze Fire Blast allowed Typhlosion to hit hard at full health and at low health. And with Stealth Rock whittling down Ty, it's very easy to drop into Blaze. Flash Fire is a decent ability for sure but is it as easy to take advantage of as Blaze is? The problem with Flash Fire is that the most common Fire attack in (4th gen) UU is coming from Arcanine who Typhlosion decisively loses to even with a Flash Fire boost. I could list a few more examples like that but what I'm getting at is that unlike Heatran and his Earth Power, Typhlosion can't really scare away the opposing Fire type after he grabs the boost. You might get in on the occassional WoW or Fire attack from something that you actually scare off but Blaze still looks more reliable and exploitable.
 
That's very true Lee. I was thinking that myself. I think that it depends on whether you are looking for making Typhlosion a long-term threat (i.e. Blaze), or if you want him to become an instant threat (i.e. snagging a boost for Flash Fire).
 
General Analysis

Seeing as how I began my Pokémon career back in Silver, I have always had a great love of Typhlosion. In fact, I would go so far as to say that he is my favorite Pokémon in existence. That’s why it pains me so to see it placed in the abysmal depths of the never used tier. Beyond its fearsome design, Typhlosion is excellent in battle. The sub-petya-blaze and erupt-scarf sets are quite effective and imaginative. And, when given sunny day support, Typhlosion can sweep whole teams. However, Ty’s most crippling weakness is still its lack-luster move pool. Typhlosion is a case study in Pokémon who could topple ubers if only given a proper move pool. These were the moves I had hoped would be given to Ty in Gen 5, yet were not given.
- Boiling Water (held by the physical attacking starter Emboar)
- Grass Knot (held by both Infenape and Emboar)
- Thunderbolt (Ty had Thunder Punch when it was special)
- Dragon Pulse (held by Charizard)
- Vacuum Wave (held by Blaziken)
 
Darn, i really wish it got more boosts. Maybe a sub/nitro charge set could work. Definitely not as good as it's standard, but could be a nice surprise non the less. It's just so sad to see your favorite pokemon be so outclassed :(
 
Scarf set with Flash Fire is the best set to me. Team it up with a spinner, Lickylicky (to get rid of weather 'mons), and Ninetails (or anything with Sunny Day) and you have a huge sweep ready, barring priority users. And Heatran. :P

I'm sure you could use some bait Pokemon to lure out Heatran and other possible threats and take them out. Or Reflect support might be enough because of how just about all priority attacks are physical.
 
Choice scarf Eruption seems like one of his better options still. With Droughtales that could dent anything that doesn't 4x resist. Politoed and Ttar are big problems, so is just about any priority moves. Typhlo can't do much that others don't do better. It's a shame his attack stat isn't higher, as he's got a very large physical pool. I feel like Nitro Charge isn't a horrible idea even on Spec sets. It's a stab move that raises speed one stage -- if nothing else just use it to finish opponents off or take down 4x weakness mons. The free speed boost is very welcome on him.
 
Flash Fire-boosted Eruption? YESPLZ. How much stuff would THAT wreck?! >D

...no seriously. How much stuff WOULD it wreck? (calcs plz?)
 
Something tells me that Typhlosion now fits on teams weak to Fire in ways it hasn't previously, even if Typhlosion functions as it will.

Abomasnow + Typhlosion, Hail teams
Nattorei + Typlosion, maybe?
Mow-Rotom + Typhlosion...
Dry Skin!!!
 
Lee said:
Is the choice between Blaze and Flash Fire really as obvious as we are making out?

I always liked how the combination of Eruption and Blaze Fire Blast allowed Typhlosion to hit hard at full health and at low health. And with Stealth Rock whittling down Ty, it's very easy to drop into Blaze. Flash Fire is a decent ability for sure but is it as easy to take advantage of as Blaze is? The problem with Flash Fire is that the most common Fire attack in (4th gen) UU is coming from Arcanine who Typhlosion decisively loses to even with a Flash Fire boost. I could list a few more examples like that but what I'm getting at is that unlike Heatran and his Earth Power, Typhlosion can't really scare away the opposing Fire type after he grabs the boost. You might get in on the occassional WoW or Fire attack from something that you actually scare off but Blaze still looks more reliable and exploitable.
Click to expand...
This 9001 times.

Flash Fire requires a really good read, and Typh isn't exactly meant to take hits easily especially when compared to Heatran. However Typh has a much better speed stat, and being a consistent threat at low health is probably easier to rely on.

Seriously, what are the chances of getting a Flash Fire boost along with full health Eruption? That requires you not just switching into a fire move (no stopping Reshiram in ubers though), but making sure there are no entry hazards or unfavorable weather to hinder you.
 
^ This is very true. It's damn near impossible to get a full health Typhlosion into battle.

Banryu said:
Flash Fire-boosted Eruption? YESPLZ. How much stuff would THAT wreck?! >D

...no seriously. How much stuff WOULD it wreck? (calcs plz?)
Click to expand...

Typhlosion's Full HP FF boosted Eruption

With Specs:

Up to 51% to 252HP/252SpDef Calm Blissey.
Up to 56% to Kingdra, who 4x Resists it.
Up to 61% to 0/0 Tyranitar in Sandstorm.

In the Sun, with Specs

Up to 76% to 252HP/252SpDef Calm Blissey.

Virtually no non Flash Fire Pokemon can safely switch into it.

If nothing else, Flash Fire gives Typhlosion another chance to switch in.
 
Charlemagne said:
^ This is very true. It's damn near impossible to get a full health Typhlosion into battle.



Typhlosion's Full HP FF boosted Eruption

With Specs:

Up to 51% to 252HP/252SpDef Calm Blissey.
Up to 56% to Kingdra, who 4x Resists it.
Up to 61% to 0/0 Tyranitar in Sandstorm.

In the Sun, with Specs

Up to 76% to 252HP/252SpDef Calm Blissey.

Virtually no non Flash Fire Pokemon can safely switch into it.

If nothing else, Flash Fire gives Typhlosion another chance to switch in.
Click to expand...

Wat.

I am greatly impressed.
 
Originally Posted by Fat Charlemagne
^ This is very true. It's damn near impossible to get a full health Typhlosion into battle.

^This is one of the several reasons why I prefer physical Typhlosion. With flare blitz and earthquake, it can actually wreck a lot of things, and it's hp isn't as important, so it's easier to switch in on a fire attack. Earthquake lets you beat heatran without splitting you're stats, and since you're fire type you don't even fear a burn from flame body (i'm looking at you, SD).
 
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