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Metagame Ubers Metagame and Set Discussion v4 - Crown Tundra [Zacian-Hero Banned]
- Thread starter Icemaster
- Start date
I would also like a Calyrex-S suspect. If you don’t have Yveltal it will blow through your team, even if you do it can still threaten it with Trick/Leech Seed, even Disable. It’s like Deoxys-A with a useful ability, better typing, better STAB and it can take a neutral hit.
Something being "on the radar" doesn't necessarily mean it's broken. You don't just suspect them for being "on the radar", especially in Ubers. Surveys exist and are done to gather public feelings and opinions on various aspects of the tier (as one is going on right now). And despite the cries of CalyS being this absurdly restrictive and oppressive pokemon, and cries to ban it, there have been surveys showing that it isn't at such a level. Now the new survey may show a change in that but we'll have to wait on that.
Especially as CalyS itself provides immensely valuable and important qualities for team building that are hard to come by. There needs to be a seriously good reason for it to go.
Using Snarl Yveltal!
I think this post was written in good faith, but it comes off as misguided and somewhat pedantic. There seems to be a consensus among "experienced" players that Calyrex-S isn't concerning for the current metagame, yet these players only constitute a small portion of the Ubers community. Furthermore, a few of these so-called "experienced" players have lost to newer variations of Calyrex-S that have recently been on the rise (i.e., Disable gaining significant traction).
The qualities Calyrex-S provides to a team can be discussed at large, but I think Eledyr summarized that quite well in his post, which I highly recommend you check out. When people say it's restrictive, it essentially forces players to run multiple checks to it. You cannot run Yveltal as your only check to it, or you will lose to it in the long term. Zacian-H did the same thing to teams that only ran NDM as their only defense against it, and look what ended up happening to it. Now that Calyrex-S has the tool to defeat its best check, having (consistently) beaten it in recent high-level games such as UPL, this issue needs to be considered and not ignored.
Snarl has 95% accuracy. If it misses and the Caly disables (game over). Besides, you lose either way if you run into the set below:
Calyrex-Shadow @ Choice Specs
Ability: As One (Spectrier)
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Astral Barrage
- Disable
- Protect
- Trick
joking abt the 95% hit part, but having to run snarl yvel just make u lose overall utility + it's a horrible move overall
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Funny enough when I was new to this meta I quickly draw my attention to the ever presenting Calyrex and as I am a HO spammer I definitely hate this mon becasue back in the days everyone just ran scarf caly in the ladder. It was like October before the UBWC.
For a little bit study on calyrex, I was then running a HO with sash Calyrex with NP disable
AND
SASH DITTO
Calyrex with sub disable beat most yveltal with ease. For my opponent, they are force to save the game with their own scarf caly. They can sucessfully revenge my calyrex, and now they have to face Ditto, with their yveltal was GONE, So they are forced to stay with the calyrex for a "speed ite" and straight up forfeit on the sash.
I am not a replay saver so sadly no replay to support the above story but anyway you can imagine the situation easily.
This story tells us:
If you cannot win with one Calyrex, Use two then.
oh by the way Zamazenta-Crown only need a full hp Evs to soft check most calyrex variant and it can tear through offensive teams like hot knife into butter. B+ it is.
PS. I am not leaning towards anyside on the Calyrex suspect topics, although I suggested for a suspect in the survey because it will be FUN
For a little bit study on calyrex, I was then running a HO with sash Calyrex with NP disable
AND
SASH DITTO
Calyrex with sub disable beat most yveltal with ease. For my opponent, they are force to save the game with their own scarf caly. They can sucessfully revenge my calyrex, and now they have to face Ditto, with their yveltal was GONE, So they are forced to stay with the calyrex for a "speed ite" and straight up forfeit on the sash.
I am not a replay saver so sadly no replay to support the above story but anyway you can imagine the situation easily.
This story tells us:
If you cannot win with one Calyrex, Use two then.
oh by the way Zamazenta-Crown only need a full hp Evs to soft check most calyrex variant and it can tear through offensive teams like hot knife into butter. B+ it is.
PS. I am not leaning towards anyside on the Calyrex suspect topics, although I suggested for a suspect in the survey because it will be FUN
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I disagree that "a checkup on the meta" should be the grounds for a suspect test. I feel this way because I believe that a suspect test should be reserved for when something is uncompetitive (think: Moody in SS OverUsed), broken (think: Kyogre in SS UnderUsed), unhealthy (think: Kommo-o in SS UnderUsed), as defined in the Tiering Policy Framework.
these pro ban arguments here really do be shitty (I'm pro ban)
I'm pretty inexperienced with ubers, but I've been using this stupid obstagoon set after being inspired by all the whining above in this thread. For whatever reason it's winning games. Not topping the ladder or anything, but above the threshold for meme teams and new players.
Obstagoon @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Snarl
- Knock Off
- Facade
- Icy Wind
Counters every single calyrex except for maybe specs draining kiss, but I've not seen that. Even these memey trick+disable calyrex cant do anything. heheh. Funny that it gets icy wind too; it's a nice move against the knock off absorbers of the tier. Calyrex+Marshadow is OP though...such a strong core.
I just took one of the sample teams, swapped out Yveltal for the GOON, and put defog on zekrom. I dont think I ever clicked it though. Pretty good team, btw to whomever made it.
https://pokepast.es/bd97f5fc5e440fd8
Are there better/broader applications for obstagoon than hosing calyrex?
Obstagoon @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Snarl
- Knock Off
- Facade
- Icy Wind
Counters every single calyrex except for maybe specs draining kiss, but I've not seen that. Even these memey trick+disable calyrex cant do anything. heheh. Funny that it gets icy wind too; it's a nice move against the knock off absorbers of the tier. Calyrex+Marshadow is OP though...such a strong core.
I just took one of the sample teams, swapped out Yveltal for the GOON, and put defog on zekrom. I dont think I ever clicked it though. Pretty good team, btw to whomever made it.
https://pokepast.es/bd97f5fc5e440fd8
Are there better/broader applications for obstagoon than hosing calyrex?
I loaded Caly + Marsh and lost so I know that statistic is wrong sadly (I loaded the wrong nature Marsh to be fair).
If CalyS is banned, then I think Spectrier will replace it
Woke up at 7am preparing for an early DPP OU game (lost) and hear the unbanned news, which didn't shock me at all.
With all the mess happened around this suspect, I was hugely demotivated to even cast my vote. Anyway, to say in the simplest way, I would vote ban even that I am absolutely fine with CalyS remains in the tiers.
It does not need me to say how heavy portion Calyrex-S is in every part of a SSUB Game. Start from the builder, down to the clutch decision which you have to decide a trick 50/50 where if you guess wrong you probably lost one mon if not yveltal in the team. For me, I arrogantly think I am really well trained (Thank you German111, but you sux) to deal with all kinds of trick moment and on my 7500 ladder game of SS UB I seldom find myself get F by trick Calyrex-S (its so call ‘5050’, anyway). Way ahead to this moment, when I was only a potato with 1000`ish game, I even ran protect in serval mons such as Eternatus just to have a chance to read trick (and do I need to say what do I lose immediately?). It always gives me a smile when thinking of these naïve decisions made in the ‘young age’.
So, Calyrex-S is not really a big problem for me in the game. What is a big problem to me is that how a game is determined by the skill difference of using and countering Calyrex-S. I call this CalyS skill, in short.
Basically, a game in SSUB is all about CalyS skill. In the builder, the better CalyS skill players have likelihood to predict opponent on CalyS appearance, even the CalyS set his/her opp gonna use. Sometimes the game is settled just on that level. Even If the builder mu is equal, the CalyS skill matter throughout almost every decision in the game when both teams have at least one CalyS. Many players has explained all this in details in the discussion posts so I am not gonna elaborate here (plus, this is not the main point of this post).
Need not to say, CalyS skill is ofc, as its called, a skill. Using CalyS and countering it is indeed skillful and I personally will call this as an art.
But I don’t like how a game is all determined by one single skill. In my ideal imagination, uber is diversify (this is probably a dream) and is a tier which every type of players with different skill can enjoy. And surely it is not the case now because if you are bad in CalyS Skill, you are obliviated by other good CalyS Skill player. I do not think there is any non-specific exception.
Being such said, I am maybe one of the beneficiaries of CalyS staying around, as I arrogantly rate myself a good CalyS skilled player. But at the end I am not a tour player at all, so my mindset is more like a causal player and I think causal players deserve better environment so that the tier is more energetic.
Back to the ban/remain topic. I have to point out that, Calyrex-S is the most controversial mon ever in Ubers. In other words, it is both ban worthy/ not ban worthy at the same time. In the simplest term, fast, strong and unpredictability is the most powerful argument of pro-ban side, but the opinion from majority of skilled players (aka ingame experience) is also important in the anti-ban side. You can read the discussion thread entirely for better knowledge.
Right before the suspect I was crystal clear to this. The ban/no ban of Calyrex-S is purely an independent decision by every player in the tier. It should not involve any logical thinking because if you are well studied prior to the vote you should know Calyrex-S is basically in an uncertainty state at all time (Hi Heisenberg). It is what it is in your brain when you observe it.
Result-wise, no actions on Calyrex-S saves A LOT of efforts to rebuild the whole tier with all analysis and the good CalyS skilled player saves their time to rebuild the whole mindset of gaming too. Its good, for all of the ‘beneficiaries’. Old speaking ‘Destroy is always way easier than maintain’, and it is, very is :P.
At the end, apart from all being said how Calyrex-S is controversial, I am 100% sure that the number of pro-ban is more than anti-ban. The higher mark of the ratio in Ubers suspect is understandable, because when talking about Ubers ban we know what we are talking about and usually they are way less controversial, or even not controversial at all. But just not this time. With Calyrex-S being such a controversial mon in the tier, the player base is forced to obey minority() of the tier.
Was that bad? I don’t know. It is just a website-stimulator game to me, anyway. I don't even know why am I spending time to type all these in the morning.
Thanks for reading. Apologies for bad grammar. See you in Gen9.
With all the mess happened around this suspect, I was hugely demotivated to even cast my vote. Anyway, to say in the simplest way, I would vote ban even that I am absolutely fine with CalyS remains in the tiers.
It does not need me to say how heavy portion Calyrex-S is in every part of a SSUB Game. Start from the builder, down to the clutch decision which you have to decide a trick 50/50 where if you guess wrong you probably lost one mon if not yveltal in the team. For me, I arrogantly think I am really well trained (Thank you German111, but you sux) to deal with all kinds of trick moment and on my 7500 ladder game of SS UB I seldom find myself get F by trick Calyrex-S (its so call ‘5050’, anyway). Way ahead to this moment, when I was only a potato with 1000`ish game, I even ran protect in serval mons such as Eternatus just to have a chance to read trick (and do I need to say what do I lose immediately?). It always gives me a smile when thinking of these naïve decisions made in the ‘young age’.
So, Calyrex-S is not really a big problem for me in the game. What is a big problem to me is that how a game is determined by the skill difference of using and countering Calyrex-S. I call this CalyS skill, in short.
Basically, a game in SSUB is all about CalyS skill. In the builder, the better CalyS skill players have likelihood to predict opponent on CalyS appearance, even the CalyS set his/her opp gonna use. Sometimes the game is settled just on that level. Even If the builder mu is equal, the CalyS skill matter throughout almost every decision in the game when both teams have at least one CalyS. Many players has explained all this in details in the discussion posts so I am not gonna elaborate here (plus, this is not the main point of this post).
Need not to say, CalyS skill is ofc, as its called, a skill. Using CalyS and countering it is indeed skillful and I personally will call this as an art.
But I don’t like how a game is all determined by one single skill. In my ideal imagination, uber is diversify (this is probably a dream) and is a tier which every type of players with different skill can enjoy. And surely it is not the case now because if you are bad in CalyS Skill, you are obliviated by other good CalyS Skill player. I do not think there is any non-specific exception.
Being such said, I am maybe one of the beneficiaries of CalyS staying around, as I arrogantly rate myself a good CalyS skilled player. But at the end I am not a tour player at all, so my mindset is more like a causal player and I think causal players deserve better environment so that the tier is more energetic.
Back to the ban/remain topic. I have to point out that, Calyrex-S is the most controversial mon ever in Ubers. In other words, it is both ban worthy/ not ban worthy at the same time. In the simplest term, fast, strong and unpredictability is the most powerful argument of pro-ban side, but the opinion from majority of skilled players (aka ingame experience) is also important in the anti-ban side. You can read the discussion thread entirely for better knowledge.
Right before the suspect I was crystal clear to this. The ban/no ban of Calyrex-S is purely an independent decision by every player in the tier. It should not involve any logical thinking because if you are well studied prior to the vote you should know Calyrex-S is basically in an uncertainty state at all time (Hi Heisenberg). It is what it is in your brain when you observe it.
Result-wise, no actions on Calyrex-S saves A LOT of efforts to rebuild the whole tier with all analysis and the good CalyS skilled player saves their time to rebuild the whole mindset of gaming too. Its good, for all of the ‘beneficiaries’. Old speaking ‘Destroy is always way easier than maintain’, and it is, very is :P.
At the end, apart from all being said how Calyrex-S is controversial, I am 100% sure that the number of pro-ban is more than anti-ban. The higher mark of the ratio in Ubers suspect is understandable, because when talking about Ubers ban we know what we are talking about and usually they are way less controversial, or even not controversial at all. But just not this time. With Calyrex-S being such a controversial mon in the tier, the player base is forced to obey minority() of the tier.
Was that bad? I don’t know. It is just a website-stimulator game to me, anyway. I don't even know why am I spending time to type all these in the morning.
Thanks for reading. Apologies for bad grammar. See you in Gen9.
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I think Calyrex-S was honestly just a scapegoat for the many many.... many many many problems with this gen's Ubers and as a mon on its own not a whole lot stands out as AG worthy. The same person that posted a copium image was also saying a while back that having to run Yveltal made the mon banworthy on its own which even the best pro-ban arguments knew was not the issue so I just kinda have to chuckle. I wouldn't say I have much desire to pick it up again but hopefully Arceus is in next gen if the current crop of mons is to stay the same down the line+ the new Legendaries.
Both PB and DNB had quite a few really skilled players with great insight but ultimately the decision wasn't gonna change a whole lot in terms of meta health.
Either way, the right side of history won!
Both PB and DNB had quite a few really skilled players with great insight but ultimately the decision wasn't gonna change a whole lot in terms of meta health.
Either way, the right side of history won!
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Hi everyone, with the recent suspect being over I know a lot of people are going to feel bad about not having a new meta to play around with. With all the posts about the "meta being solved" I wanted to post some cool mons that I think people should try out 
Calyrex-Shadow @ Mental Herb / Leftovers
Ability: As One (Spectrier)
EVs: 48 HP / 128 Def / 76 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Astral Barrage
- Disable
- Substitute
- Nasty Plot
Brand new EVs for my original creation of Disable Caly! The HP maximizes Leftovers recovery, while the bulk lets you eat 32 Atk Ada Yveltal's U-Turn (as well as other random stuff like darm), while the SpD means Etern's Dmax Cannon never 2HKOs you. 76 SpAtk is all you need to 2HKO Yve at +4. I've also discovered that Disable Caly offers some unique defensive utility by absolutely smashing those CM Ogres with one attack, which is pretty funny and actually useful.
Calyrex-Shadow @ Life Orb
Ability: As One (Spectrier)
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk
- Astral Barrage
- Disable
- Nasty Plot
- Protect
This is a version of Disable created by Aberforth. Losing Substitute sucks hard, but the added SpAtk and LO investment means you can potentially just drop their Ho-Oh at only +2 instead of +4.
Calyrex-Shadow @ Choice Specs
Ability: As One (Spectrier)
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hex
- Disable
- Trick
- Protect
While I mentioned before that I don't like the idea of TrickProtectDisable Caly, I think it couuuuuld potentially work with Hex, in combination with some serious status spam. The combination of Trick + Protect + Disable means that Yveltal cannot hurt you for the rest of the game (should you successfully get the Trick on it). The problem usually is that you would then have to rely on Astral's puny 8 PP for the rest of the game without being able to boost your SpAtk with Nasty Plot, meaning stuff like Eternatus can seriously cuck you. Astral Barrage sets need Modest Nature as well as Stealth Rock up to muscle through Eternatus, and god help you if they have a Ho-Oh around. Hex has a lot more PP and can be stronger than Astral if the opponent is statused, so something like Twave Ho-Oh or Kyogre paralyzing Eternatus lets you 2HKO it safely. I haven't actually tested this set out yet but it could be decent in theory!
If you are feeling fishy, here are some fun Block users:
Yveltal @ Salac Berry
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SpD / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Block
- Hone Claws
- Rest
A pretty dangerous set because it preys upon Eternatus being the most common absorber of Knock Off. Block it, set-up Hone Claws, and rest when you need to. Salac Berry gives you the potential to sweep after beating Eternatus. This set is kinda risky if the opponent is running Dragon Tail (getting more popular due to Block Ogre), Draco Meteor + Eject Pack, or Meteor Beam, and it also forces you to run another Caly check. There's also always the risk that you get crit, although for this it's lower due to Dmax Cannon's low 8 PP.
Zygarde @ Maranga Berry
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Block
- Dragon Dance
- Rest
Another fun set, this time you are targeting something like Defensive Xern or Shuca Etern. Maranga Berry increases your Special Defense by 1 stage if you get hit by a special attack, and after this Dmax Cannon and Moonblast become 3-4HKOs, so you are free to set-up Dragon Dance and sweep after. The risk of getting crit here is pretty high against Xerneas, since Moonblast has more PP, and stuff like Whirlwind Ho-Oh or Roar Don is annoying if that's their Zyg switch-in.
Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 180 HP / 140 SpA / 100 SpD / 88 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Block
- Geomancy
- Rest
A pretty cool set that can work very well on Magnezone teams. With Magnezone existing, the opponent will try to play careful around Xerneas and not hard in NDM; this is where Block can be useful. If they switch-in NDM, it gets Blocked and you can safely take it out with Zone; if they go in Etern (their most likely other switch-in), you can Block it and safely use it as a set-up opportunity. The brilliance of this set if that it beats all Eternatus bar Sludge Bomb sets, since you are immune to Dragon Tail and Draco Meteor, removing a lot of common escape routes. If they happen to be Sludge bomb, then this set is EV'd to live one before using Geomancy and only being 3HKO'd after it, letting you potentially stall it out (but you will most likely get crit by then). Just pray that when you use this set you don't run into Blissey or Chansey (which happened to me in UPL...)
Other sets I think should be tried out more:
Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Defog
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
I'm not sure why this mon has gone so long under the radar but it actually seems really decent right now! Defog gives Rotom-W a valuable niche, because of its Electric typing, you can safely switch into Twave Rocks NDM and not be punished, defogging its Rocks easily. Additionally, Levitate makes Rotom a great Groudon check, taking little from Stone Edge and being able to burn Don to threaten it. Water-typing gives you a useful resist to Heat Crash, Sacred Fire, and Darm's Icicle Crash. It's basically one of the only mons in the meta that can safely Defog on both NDM and Groudon without much worry. Its defensive typing means it's also great vs DD NDM, giving you a very easy Defog against HO teams, and Weavile can't OHKO with Knock Off, meaning Rotom-W can burn it. Rotom's ability to Defog consistently means it pairs great with strong-but-weak-to-rocks mons such as Choice Band Ho-Oh, Darmanitan-Galar, and Calyrex-Ice. Its vulnerability to status means you probably want to pair it with a cleric like Xerneas, Blissey, or Calyrex-S. A mon that can get strong momentum off of Eternatus is also appreciated so that Eternatus can't Pressure stall your Defogs.
Solgaleo @ Choice Band
Ability: Full Metal Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe (there might be more optimized EVs for this)
Jolly Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Flare Blitz
- Wild Charge
- Outrage / Morning Sun
A cool set invented by TonyFlygon (who is known to randomly throw choice items on various mons lol). It's similar to band NDM but it has a couple of unique cool things about it. For one, it has different coverage; Flare Blitz is really cool to get the OHKO on Ferrothorn, while Wild Charge combines hitting Kyogre, Ho-Oh, and Yveltal into one slot. Outrage is also cool to smack Zygarde with. Thanks to Full Metal Body, this Solgaleo is pretty decent against Sticky Webs teams as well, and Band Sunsteel Strike can OHKO Shuckle leads. It has higher Speed and more unique coverage options (Flare Blitz seems like the biggest advantage to me), but band NDM has better attack, no recoil, and can use STAB Photon Geyser for similar purposes to Wild Charge, so both have their uses.
Necrozma-DM @ Leftovers
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 56 Atk / 248 SpD / 204 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Moonlight
A cool NDM set I created that combines being a set-up NDM with anti-Magnezone technology. The speed investment lets you outrun max speed Magnezone, meaning you can Sunsteel it on the switch and then OHKO with Earthquake. The SpD investment is so that Eternatus in the sun doesn't 2HKO with Flamethrower after Leftovers recovery, with the rest of it being dumped into Attack, which allows you to OHKO Marshadow at +1 with Sunsteel. Earthquake also lets you deal much better with CP Eternatus; the downside being that Ho-Oh is a huge pain, so you'd want to pair this with a Ho-Oh lure or at least a solid Ho-Oh switch-in like Zygarde.
Necrozma-DM @ Leftovers
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 220 SpD / 40 Spe
Impish Nature
- Iron Head / Sunsteel Strike
- Thunder Wave / Knock Off
- Stealth Rock
- Moonlight
A mixed defensive NDM. My UPL teammates used these EVs a lot due to how prevalent Weavile is. The HP investment along with Impish nature ensures that Weavile cannot OHKO with +2 Knock Off if it's Jolly nature. The remaining Special Defense investment is good enough to deal with Eternatus and most Xerneas with Leftovers. A lot of teams, like Lunala and Defensive Zygarde teams, have a hard time fitting in anti-weavile measures, so this set is a good way to compensate for that.
Ho-Oh @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 152 Def / 92 SpD / 16 Spe
Careful Nature
- Brave Bird
- Substitute
- Curse
- Recover
A cool offensive Ho-Oh set I've seen used by Kate. The EVs guarantee that Eternatus cannot break Substitute with one Dynamax Cannon, which lets Ho-Oh Curse up without fear of Toxic. The Defense investment also stops +2 Weavile from OHKOing with +2 Triple Axel, which gives this set some nice defensive utility in addition to switching into Calyrex-S better than most other Ho-Oh. You are never breaking Defensive Zyg with this so you better have some solid switch-ins for it!
Giratina-O @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 92 Def / 164 Spe (or 176 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 76 Spe)
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Poltergeist
- Stone Edge / Dragon Tail
- Will-O-Wisp / Thunder Wave
- Shadow Sneak / Defog / Dragon Tail
While Gira-O has a lot of problems, I think it's a pretty decent mon that deserves to be played around with more. This particular spread I used in combination with Wish Blissey, to take the place of Eternatus as my Dracovish/Ho-Oh check, in addition to checking Groudon and revenge killing Calyrex-S. On other teams with Eternatus, a bulkier spread with Adamant nature is totally cool to run too. Poltergeist is honestly quite strong and Stone Edge lets you become a great Yve/Ho-Oh lure. WoW is useful to check Grounds while Thunder Wave smacks Eternatus switch-ins. If you are willing to forgo Shadow Sneak, then I think Gira can become a quite decent Defogger in combination with WoW, or just break things as hard as possible with Dragon Tail and your other attacks. My main problem with Gira is that it has no recovery and it gets chipped down and down, so I always try to use it with Wish Blissey or Clefable.
Zamazenta-Crowned @ Rusted Shield
Ability: Dauntless Shield
EVs: 24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Behemoth Bash
- Close Combat
- Howl
- Rest
Zama gets a bad rap but I deadass think it's quite decent in our current meta. Especially, HO teams at the moment love using Yveltal and Weavile, and Zama just absolutely walls the shit out of them. You can definitely use a bulkier spread but I found when using it I just like to Howl up and hit things so you are not so passive. The Speed is very useful to lure in and KO slower things like Marshadow, too. Its two STABs are usually enough to get the job done, but Ho-Oh and Defensive Zyg are definitely huge obstacles that require team support to play around.
Kyogre @ Quick Claw
Ban Quick Claw.
Anyway that's it for now!
I know the meta for many people has felt stale lately, but if you branched out more with your teambuilding instead of throwing Weavile on every team as your source of innovation then you might have more fun playing the tier. If not, then we at least have the new gens coming out soon!
Calyrex-Shadow @ Mental Herb / Leftovers
Ability: As One (Spectrier)
EVs: 48 HP / 128 Def / 76 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Astral Barrage
- Disable
- Substitute
- Nasty Plot
Brand new EVs for my original creation of Disable Caly! The HP maximizes Leftovers recovery, while the bulk lets you eat 32 Atk Ada Yveltal's U-Turn (as well as other random stuff like darm), while the SpD means Etern's Dmax Cannon never 2HKOs you. 76 SpAtk is all you need to 2HKO Yve at +4. I've also discovered that Disable Caly offers some unique defensive utility by absolutely smashing those CM Ogres with one attack, which is pretty funny and actually useful.
Calyrex-Shadow @ Life Orb
Ability: As One (Spectrier)
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk
- Astral Barrage
- Disable
- Nasty Plot
- Protect
This is a version of Disable created by Aberforth. Losing Substitute sucks hard, but the added SpAtk and LO investment means you can potentially just drop their Ho-Oh at only +2 instead of +4.
Calyrex-Shadow @ Choice Specs
Ability: As One (Spectrier)
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hex
- Disable
- Trick
- Protect
While I mentioned before that I don't like the idea of TrickProtectDisable Caly, I think it couuuuuld potentially work with Hex, in combination with some serious status spam. The combination of Trick + Protect + Disable means that Yveltal cannot hurt you for the rest of the game (should you successfully get the Trick on it). The problem usually is that you would then have to rely on Astral's puny 8 PP for the rest of the game without being able to boost your SpAtk with Nasty Plot, meaning stuff like Eternatus can seriously cuck you. Astral Barrage sets need Modest Nature as well as Stealth Rock up to muscle through Eternatus, and god help you if they have a Ho-Oh around. Hex has a lot more PP and can be stronger than Astral if the opponent is statused, so something like Twave Ho-Oh or Kyogre paralyzing Eternatus lets you 2HKO it safely. I haven't actually tested this set out yet but it could be decent in theory!
If you are feeling fishy, here are some fun Block users:
Yveltal @ Salac Berry
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SpD / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Block
- Hone Claws
- Rest
A pretty dangerous set because it preys upon Eternatus being the most common absorber of Knock Off. Block it, set-up Hone Claws, and rest when you need to. Salac Berry gives you the potential to sweep after beating Eternatus. This set is kinda risky if the opponent is running Dragon Tail (getting more popular due to Block Ogre), Draco Meteor + Eject Pack, or Meteor Beam, and it also forces you to run another Caly check. There's also always the risk that you get crit, although for this it's lower due to Dmax Cannon's low 8 PP.
Zygarde @ Maranga Berry
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Block
- Dragon Dance
- Rest
Another fun set, this time you are targeting something like Defensive Xern or Shuca Etern. Maranga Berry increases your Special Defense by 1 stage if you get hit by a special attack, and after this Dmax Cannon and Moonblast become 3-4HKOs, so you are free to set-up Dragon Dance and sweep after. The risk of getting crit here is pretty high against Xerneas, since Moonblast has more PP, and stuff like Whirlwind Ho-Oh or Roar Don is annoying if that's their Zyg switch-in.
Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 180 HP / 140 SpA / 100 SpD / 88 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Block
- Geomancy
- Rest
A pretty cool set that can work very well on Magnezone teams. With Magnezone existing, the opponent will try to play careful around Xerneas and not hard in NDM; this is where Block can be useful. If they switch-in NDM, it gets Blocked and you can safely take it out with Zone; if they go in Etern (their most likely other switch-in), you can Block it and safely use it as a set-up opportunity. The brilliance of this set if that it beats all Eternatus bar Sludge Bomb sets, since you are immune to Dragon Tail and Draco Meteor, removing a lot of common escape routes. If they happen to be Sludge bomb, then this set is EV'd to live one before using Geomancy and only being 3HKO'd after it, letting you potentially stall it out (but you will most likely get crit by then). Just pray that when you use this set you don't run into Blissey or Chansey (which happened to me in UPL...)
Other sets I think should be tried out more:
Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Defog
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
I'm not sure why this mon has gone so long under the radar but it actually seems really decent right now! Defog gives Rotom-W a valuable niche, because of its Electric typing, you can safely switch into Twave Rocks NDM and not be punished, defogging its Rocks easily. Additionally, Levitate makes Rotom a great Groudon check, taking little from Stone Edge and being able to burn Don to threaten it. Water-typing gives you a useful resist to Heat Crash, Sacred Fire, and Darm's Icicle Crash. It's basically one of the only mons in the meta that can safely Defog on both NDM and Groudon without much worry. Its defensive typing means it's also great vs DD NDM, giving you a very easy Defog against HO teams, and Weavile can't OHKO with Knock Off, meaning Rotom-W can burn it. Rotom's ability to Defog consistently means it pairs great with strong-but-weak-to-rocks mons such as Choice Band Ho-Oh, Darmanitan-Galar, and Calyrex-Ice. Its vulnerability to status means you probably want to pair it with a cleric like Xerneas, Blissey, or Calyrex-S. A mon that can get strong momentum off of Eternatus is also appreciated so that Eternatus can't Pressure stall your Defogs.
Solgaleo @ Choice Band
Ability: Full Metal Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe (there might be more optimized EVs for this)
Jolly Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Flare Blitz
- Wild Charge
- Outrage / Morning Sun
A cool set invented by TonyFlygon (who is known to randomly throw choice items on various mons lol). It's similar to band NDM but it has a couple of unique cool things about it. For one, it has different coverage; Flare Blitz is really cool to get the OHKO on Ferrothorn, while Wild Charge combines hitting Kyogre, Ho-Oh, and Yveltal into one slot. Outrage is also cool to smack Zygarde with. Thanks to Full Metal Body, this Solgaleo is pretty decent against Sticky Webs teams as well, and Band Sunsteel Strike can OHKO Shuckle leads. It has higher Speed and more unique coverage options (Flare Blitz seems like the biggest advantage to me), but band NDM has better attack, no recoil, and can use STAB Photon Geyser for similar purposes to Wild Charge, so both have their uses.
Necrozma-DM @ Leftovers
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 56 Atk / 248 SpD / 204 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Moonlight
A cool NDM set I created that combines being a set-up NDM with anti-Magnezone technology. The speed investment lets you outrun max speed Magnezone, meaning you can Sunsteel it on the switch and then OHKO with Earthquake. The SpD investment is so that Eternatus in the sun doesn't 2HKO with Flamethrower after Leftovers recovery, with the rest of it being dumped into Attack, which allows you to OHKO Marshadow at +1 with Sunsteel. Earthquake also lets you deal much better with CP Eternatus; the downside being that Ho-Oh is a huge pain, so you'd want to pair this with a Ho-Oh lure or at least a solid Ho-Oh switch-in like Zygarde.
Necrozma-DM @ Leftovers
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 220 SpD / 40 Spe
Impish Nature
- Iron Head / Sunsteel Strike
- Thunder Wave / Knock Off
- Stealth Rock
- Moonlight
A mixed defensive NDM. My UPL teammates used these EVs a lot due to how prevalent Weavile is. The HP investment along with Impish nature ensures that Weavile cannot OHKO with +2 Knock Off if it's Jolly nature. The remaining Special Defense investment is good enough to deal with Eternatus and most Xerneas with Leftovers. A lot of teams, like Lunala and Defensive Zygarde teams, have a hard time fitting in anti-weavile measures, so this set is a good way to compensate for that.
Ho-Oh @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 152 Def / 92 SpD / 16 Spe
Careful Nature
- Brave Bird
- Substitute
- Curse
- Recover
A cool offensive Ho-Oh set I've seen used by Kate. The EVs guarantee that Eternatus cannot break Substitute with one Dynamax Cannon, which lets Ho-Oh Curse up without fear of Toxic. The Defense investment also stops +2 Weavile from OHKOing with +2 Triple Axel, which gives this set some nice defensive utility in addition to switching into Calyrex-S better than most other Ho-Oh. You are never breaking Defensive Zyg with this so you better have some solid switch-ins for it!
Giratina-O @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 92 Def / 164 Spe (or 176 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 76 Spe)
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Poltergeist
- Stone Edge / Dragon Tail
- Will-O-Wisp / Thunder Wave
- Shadow Sneak / Defog / Dragon Tail
While Gira-O has a lot of problems, I think it's a pretty decent mon that deserves to be played around with more. This particular spread I used in combination with Wish Blissey, to take the place of Eternatus as my Dracovish/Ho-Oh check, in addition to checking Groudon and revenge killing Calyrex-S. On other teams with Eternatus, a bulkier spread with Adamant nature is totally cool to run too. Poltergeist is honestly quite strong and Stone Edge lets you become a great Yve/Ho-Oh lure. WoW is useful to check Grounds while Thunder Wave smacks Eternatus switch-ins. If you are willing to forgo Shadow Sneak, then I think Gira can become a quite decent Defogger in combination with WoW, or just break things as hard as possible with Dragon Tail and your other attacks. My main problem with Gira is that it has no recovery and it gets chipped down and down, so I always try to use it with Wish Blissey or Clefable.
Zamazenta-Crowned @ Rusted Shield
Ability: Dauntless Shield
EVs: 24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Behemoth Bash
- Close Combat
- Howl
- Rest
Zama gets a bad rap but I deadass think it's quite decent in our current meta. Especially, HO teams at the moment love using Yveltal and Weavile, and Zama just absolutely walls the shit out of them. You can definitely use a bulkier spread but I found when using it I just like to Howl up and hit things so you are not so passive. The Speed is very useful to lure in and KO slower things like Marshadow, too. Its two STABs are usually enough to get the job done, but Ho-Oh and Defensive Zyg are definitely huge obstacles that require team support to play around.
Kyogre @ Quick Claw
Ban Quick Claw.
Anyway that's it for now!
I know the meta for many people has felt stale lately, but if you branched out more with your teambuilding instead of throwing Weavile on every team as your source of innovation then you might have more fun playing the tier. If not, then we at least have the new gens coming out soon!
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Hello there! I'm making this post to dump some teams (and spark discussion for remaining unexplored ideas in ss which i happened to find)
I happened to build for my friend Dj Breloominati♬ from round 6 for tlt playoffs (which had ss ubers but not all the rounds, depending on the tiers locked and eliminated) and went undefeated in ubers all the way until finals, glad i could help!
I would be showcasing the teams, ideas behind the teams and replays.
**Round 6** vs JJ09LIE
Jj09lie wasn't a seasoned Uber player. From the information i found, they were a rising player in tours room with no specific main tier. What do non mainers load in Ubers the first time they play it in a big tour? Hyper offense! (They had hyper offense in scout too)
So that was the base for the team
-
---
- (won)
(Click on sprite for team)
Now, I'm not inventor of the caly set, this is a standard 6 generally good against offensive structures. The caly set was first seen in scl game of Aberforth, later on used in the circuit games aswell. Immediately punishes suicide leads with sub encore (there's an example of this in a later round!) and potentially 6-0 the offense.
Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ubers-1740137167-ge4lybblfxvbul7hd4qoa5nm8wzv4h7pw
No hyper offense as was expected however, good match up in form of seperated checks for opposing kyogre and marsh.
**Round 7** vs crying
Now, crying is a good player and an excellent builder so had to be careful here. There are two issues for a team builder in scouting, having no scout and having a vast scout, and in my opinion both are equally terrifying when faced against a decent builder. Decided to zyg caly this one.
---
-
- (won)
I didn't mention anything about a balance! Anyways, the zyg is ev'ed to live unboosted moonblast from xern, +1 iron tail + tarrows next turn ohkoes xern. As you can see, it's a hyperoffense adapted to look like a balance in preview. I and Aber came up with this idea in scl, used that one here.
Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ubers-1752569329-6z1uh0lz0li11cv9mcke6ri0rkisddqpw
I didn't expect a hyperoffense here but caly 6-0ed (with a timely crit) but crying still would need to win 5 sucker games in a row without the crit, game was definitely in the favour of Dj here. Anyways highlight set:
Zygarde @ Muscle Band
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute
- Iron Tail
Basic anti xern spammer material, i would definitely say it's better fitted for offense but perhaps might work with a marsh or hone claws yveltal.
(No ubers in round 8)
**Round 9** vs SiceXV
SiceXV too is a great player, but no experience of high level ubers. I wanted to load something fun this time.
-----
(won)
You guys would call me a calyrex sub encore addict so i changed the set for the game for sash disable np. The Marshadow is specifically designed to help teammates sweep. You don't really need fight move marsh on a hyper offense with 4 more wincons. There's no etern (no real yveltal answer) thus i equiped ndm with colbur. The highlight would definitely be kyogre. +1 Blizzard max investment OHKOes etern from full. That is some damage. If you noticed, there's blunder policy on ogre. The point is that whether you miss Blizzard or hit it, it will benefit you. However, somehow if you want to miss Blizzard it will shock you and hit (ultimate life hack, hope for the opposite). I originally wanted to put eject pack shell smash shuckle but i saw way too many offenses in the tour so didn't think it would be good (i was right).
Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ubers-667453
Faced hyper offense, half expected it. Wasn't too hard for mu.
**Finals** vs Door Money:
Door Money had no Uber team shout outs whatsoever so i had no idea what to use. What do I do when i don't know what to use? It was time to bring heat
-----(lost)
From the preview, you may assume this is some kind of dd ndm + sd don + rocks Lando, i can't stress on how wrong you would be. Let's go order wise, shall we? A lot of new things to take in. Groudon is not a standard set, it is specifically made to lure and beat it's "checks". Just like zekrom's mixed set, there's no real check to this (Zekrom should be S rank, by the way, im totally not being biased about zek here). Forget the example. Anyways, you sub and spam bulk up as they run to their don check. They're doomed if the check is yveltal and it's slow. Everything else crumbles to dtail + bulk up, except xern which too goes down soon enough due to blades. Hooh is a problem, but it doesn't know you're not stone edge! Yvel , etern and necro are standard. Ferro is ev'ed to live 4 scald from kyogre (uninvested) while also being a physical wall. Now the real heat: double dance lando. I don't play ou so i don't know if it's used there. But it definitely works here. I wish I could use two groudons, one lure, one double dance. Unfortunately rules are rules so i looked for a replacement and found Lando. Its ev'ed to be faster than 250 xern without boost, can set up depending on opposing team, cleans super well after don chips. Be careful using the two together, none of those should go down unless the physical wall is chipped and other can win. Hooh is problematic but can be handled.
Unfortunately this is not a fairy tale where the best builds win so we end up losing the uber game.
Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ubers-670007
Well offense again. I guess our protagonist Dj could have played more offensively with Lando to win, but it wasn't easy. I really thought i would see mag here thus loaded shed shell ndm, but lefties would have really helped.
S/o 64 Squares Edgar & Manly Melmetals for picking me this year for upl, was great fun and honour to play with you as my debut upl, couldn't have asked for a better team and managers.
Huge shoutout to my friend Eledyr, def the best person i met the previous year.
Thank you Aberforth for letting me help you for Scl, learnt a lot from you :)
Goodbye SS as a current gen, you will be missed, atleast by me.
Thank you for reading this long post!
I happened to build for my friend Dj Breloominati♬ from round 6 for tlt playoffs (which had ss ubers but not all the rounds, depending on the tiers locked and eliminated) and went undefeated in ubers all the way until finals, glad i could help!
I would be showcasing the teams, ideas behind the teams and replays.
**Round 6** vs JJ09LIE
Jj09lie wasn't a seasoned Uber player. From the information i found, they were a rising player in tours room with no specific main tier. What do non mainers load in Ubers the first time they play it in a big tour? Hyper offense! (They had hyper offense in scout too)
So that was the base for the team
----- (won)(Click on sprite for team)
Now, I'm not inventor of the caly set, this is a standard 6 generally good against offensive structures. The caly set was first seen in scl game of Aberforth, later on used in the circuit games aswell. Immediately punishes suicide leads with sub encore (there's an example of this in a later round!) and potentially 6-0 the offense.
Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ubers-1740137167-ge4lybblfxvbul7hd4qoa5nm8wzv4h7pw
No hyper offense as was expected however, good match up in form of seperated checks for opposing kyogre and marsh.
**Round 7** vs crying
Now, crying is a good player and an excellent builder so had to be careful here. There are two issues for a team builder in scouting, having no scout and having a vast scout, and in my opinion both are equally terrifying when faced against a decent builder. Decided to zyg caly this one.
----- (won)I didn't mention anything about a balance! Anyways, the zyg is ev'ed to live unboosted moonblast from xern, +1 iron tail + tarrows next turn ohkoes xern. As you can see, it's a hyperoffense adapted to look like a balance in preview. I and Aber came up with this idea in scl, used that one here.
Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ubers-1752569329-6z1uh0lz0li11cv9mcke6ri0rkisddqpw
I didn't expect a hyperoffense here but caly 6-0ed (with a timely crit) but crying still would need to win 5 sucker games in a row without the crit, game was definitely in the favour of Dj here. Anyways highlight set:
Zygarde @ Muscle Band
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute
- Iron Tail
Basic anti xern spammer material, i would definitely say it's better fitted for offense but perhaps might work with a marsh or hone claws yveltal.
(No ubers in round 8)
**Round 9** vs SiceXV
SiceXV too is a great player, but no experience of high level ubers. I wanted to load something fun this time.
----- (won)You guys would call me a calyrex sub encore addict so i changed the set for the game for sash disable np. The Marshadow is specifically designed to help teammates sweep. You don't really need fight move marsh on a hyper offense with 4 more wincons. There's no etern (no real yveltal answer) thus i equiped ndm with colbur. The highlight would definitely be kyogre. +1 Blizzard max investment OHKOes etern from full. That is some damage. If you noticed, there's blunder policy on ogre. The point is that whether you miss Blizzard or hit it, it will benefit you. However, somehow if you want to miss Blizzard it will shock you and hit (ultimate life hack, hope for the opposite). I originally wanted to put eject pack shell smash shuckle but i saw way too many offenses in the tour so didn't think it would be good (i was right).
Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ubers-667453
Faced hyper offense, half expected it. Wasn't too hard for mu.
**Finals** vs Door Money:
Door Money had no Uber team shout outs whatsoever so i had no idea what to use. What do I do when i don't know what to use? It was time to bring heat
-----(lost)From the preview, you may assume this is some kind of dd ndm + sd don + rocks Lando, i can't stress on how wrong you would be. Let's go order wise, shall we? A lot of new things to take in. Groudon is not a standard set, it is specifically made to lure and beat it's "checks". Just like zekrom's mixed set, there's no real check to this (Zekrom should be S rank, by the way, im totally not being biased about zek here). Forget the example. Anyways, you sub and spam bulk up as they run to their don check. They're doomed if the check is yveltal and it's slow. Everything else crumbles to dtail + bulk up, except xern which too goes down soon enough due to blades. Hooh is a problem, but it doesn't know you're not stone edge! Yvel , etern and necro are standard. Ferro is ev'ed to live 4 scald from kyogre (uninvested) while also being a physical wall. Now the real heat: double dance lando. I don't play ou so i don't know if it's used there. But it definitely works here. I wish I could use two groudons, one lure, one double dance. Unfortunately rules are rules so i looked for a replacement and found Lando. Its ev'ed to be faster than 250 xern without boost, can set up depending on opposing team, cleans super well after don chips. Be careful using the two together, none of those should go down unless the physical wall is chipped and other can win. Hooh is problematic but can be handled.
Unfortunately this is not a fairy tale where the best builds win so we end up losing the uber game.
Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ubers-670007
Well offense again. I guess our protagonist Dj could have played more offensively with Lando to win, but it wasn't easy. I really thought i would see mag here thus loaded shed shell ndm, but lefties would have really helped.
S/o 64 Squares Edgar & Manly Melmetals for picking me this year for upl, was great fun and honour to play with you as my debut upl, couldn't have asked for a better team and managers.
Huge shoutout to my friend Eledyr, def the best person i met the previous year.
Thank you Aberforth for letting me help you for Scl, learnt a lot from you :)
Goodbye SS as a current gen, you will be missed, atleast by me.
Thank you for reading this long post!
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Did you know a Bonsly can defeat a Zacian? If Zacian uses a physical move ( all of the main Zacian movesets in normal singles don't have any special attacks on them ) on a Bonsly with full hp, Bonsly will survive on 1hp due to its ability Sturdy. Then, Bonsly can use Counter to deal double damage it was given by Zacian to Zacian, making Zacian fucking die.
It can do this trick on many other physical attackers, though Bonsly is unviable against special attackers.
when are we banning bonsly? it counters half the meta
Honestly, I can't stop thinking about how much better this tier would have been with Arceus in it, I truely think that Arceus is the most unfortunate dexit victim of all time. Arceus Dark and Normal would have been amazing counters to Caly-S and you would no longer be pidgeonholded to running Yveltal on every team. Arceus Dark is, very crucially, immune to Caly-S's trick, one of the main ways the horse can cripple Yveltal. Even Sub-Disable or Leech Seed shit wouldn't get Caly-S past either Darkceus 1) because Darkceus can run Perish Song and 2) because it would leave the horse completely cockblocked by Extreme Killer.
Not only would Arceus provide the tier with amazing Caly-S counters, they also provide the tier with actual knock absorbers. You wouldn't even be pidgeonholded to running only Dark or Normalceus, if you run specially defensive Yveltal, you can choose alternate forms. Offensive Groundceus would be great to rip through the YEN core and Water and Fairyceus have great defensive use. Perhaps you could find niche use for Electceus, Flyceus, and Steelceus as well.
It's not even just that you can more easily justify dropping Yveltal on every team, you could likely justify dropping Eternatus on certain teams with certain Arceus forms.
can we just mod SS ubers just to bring back arceus.
Not only would Arceus provide the tier with amazing Caly-S counters, they also provide the tier with actual knock absorbers. You wouldn't even be pidgeonholded to running only Dark or Normalceus, if you run specially defensive Yveltal, you can choose alternate forms. Offensive Groundceus would be great to rip through the YEN core and Water and Fairyceus have great defensive use. Perhaps you could find niche use for Electceus, Flyceus, and Steelceus as well.
It's not even just that you can more easily justify dropping Yveltal on every team, you could likely justify dropping Eternatus on certain teams with certain Arceus forms.
Instead of deleting this I'll just give a short reply. Arceus is not in SS Ubers, and this forum and this thread is for discussion about SS Ubers. Your post, however well thought out, only ends up being off-topic and derailing this (otherwise inactive) thread. You can message Ubers Tier Leaders Aberforth or Fc in the future if you wish to have a discussion like this but please do check the purpose and topic of a thread before posting in it.