252+ Atk Griseous Orb Giratina-Origin Shadow Force vs. 32 HP / 64 Def Kyogre-Primal: 247-292 (70.7 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKOSo, I was thinking of using Giratina-O as a Pdon+Pogre check after looking at this thread, but doesn't Pogre have a good chance of 2HKOing SpDef sets with ice beam? It is even guaranteed after rocks and/or if it's a more typical (I.e physically defensive) Giratina-O.
Furthermore, what does it do back to Pogre? It only gets one turn to do anything (two if you count Shadow Sneak), so the most it can do is cripple with toxic/twave. That's good and all, but it's more of an emergency protocol than a check (at least as I see it - I'd like to be shown otherwise, because I like the idea of compressing several roles into Giratina).
Can’t read the compendium cause I’m on phone, but if Gira-O is considered a Pogre “check” for that reason, might as well add stuff like ekiller or ho-oh, who can “pivot” on a potential ice move or, since you brought sun up, anything that can take a water move. Point is, just because something can pivot doesn’t mean it’s a check.Hey there, well first of all Giratina-O isn't exactly a POgre check it works pretty much as a pivot which means that if you lose the weather against POgre having PDon in and you have Giratina-O in the back you can switch into Tina-O predicting the water-type attack and as its typing allows to resist that move you can switch back to PDon and gain back the Desolate Land.
This same scenario happens with Arceus-Water as you might know Thunder from POgre is a 2/3HKO however it's supposed to come in "pivoting" the water-type move and then you switch back to PDon.
Might’ve misphrased, or some ppl misunderstood, so let me put it this way to make it clear. I do not think that ho-oh or ekiller should be added as a check to Pogre for obvious reasons. Second, I overlooked the part where the user above me said that it wasn’t rlly a check. Third how can you consider it a check when special Pogres can 2 shot it with the combination of origin pulse + ice beam, and knocking out any variation of giratina with a double ice beam. That was my point. I understand the concept of pivoting all too well, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s not rlly a check. Might as well add pokemon like Arceus Dark to your checklist. Also pls don’t hl me again in disc for this shit thnx.Can’t read the compendium cause I’m on phone, but if Gira-O is considered a Pogre “check” for that reason, might as well add stuff like ekiller or ho-oh, who can “pivot” on a potential ice move or, since you brought sun up, anything that can take a water move. Point is, just because something can pivot doesn’t mean it’s a check.
I feel ultra necrozma is relevant enough to require its own section
Dialga isn't really a check of zygarde, as a pokemon that relies on a item that only works once while having a weakness to his STAB isn't really a check... (also the fact that zygarde can use sub)I am surprised that Scizor is not considered as a check / counter of Necro DM with Pursuit / Knock Off. He can enter without suffering great damage before him and take advantage.
Another example can be Dialga as Check / counter of Zygarde with Shuca + DPulse or DMeteor. It's a little risky but I think it can also be seen as an answer.
1. Togekiss is in fact able to switch into DD Zygarde and proceed to wall it/prevent a sweep with Growl, in the same way that Blissey counters Geomancy Xerneas with Confide.Hello, DuffettFan, I would like to try to correct some of your suggestions :
"Togekiss to Zygarde-C Checks" the main problem is that Togekiss, now, can't switch on zyg dragon dance, because at +1 Thousand Arrows is a 2hoko after Stealth Rock, and the best option of Togekiss against Zyg (Dazzling Gleam) is only 3hoko...
More, the Zygarde Dragon Dance team is often based on Zygarde dd + Mega Gengar. these team have no problem at break Togekiss.
I think I can say that Togekiss is not a check.
"Mega Pinsir to Ground Immunities" it's questionable. now, Pinsir can't switch to any of the viable ground types in ubers. Even niche pokémon, like the forms of Landorus can ohko on switch.
"Ferrothorn, Shuckle, and Skarmory to Stealth Rock Setters" Agree except Shuckle.
"Mega Glalie to Spikes | Toxic Spikes and Priority" Disagree. Ice Shard does little dommages (does't ohko Mega-Salamence for exemple, only 15% on xerneas...)
to finish, the most part your suggestions concerns pokémons out of VR.
I do not think it would be good to add roles on pokémon out of VR. Thank
1&2. Okay, i don't know that Togekiss learned Grwol, and effectively togekiss can switch.1. Togekiss is in fact able to switch into DD Zygarde and proceed to wall it/prevent a sweep with Growl, in the same way that Blissey counters Geomancy Xerneas with Confide.
2. Mega Gengar is not a threat to Togekiss so long as Shed Shell is paired, the same way that Mega Gengar + Xerneas cannot break Shed Shell Blissey.
3. Shuckle is one of the three viable Sticky Web-setters of the metagame and distinguishes itself from Ribombee in part due to the possibility of compressing both Sticky Web and Stealth Rock into a single slot.
4. Ice Shard is a noteworthy appeal of adding Mega Glalie to a Sticky Web team due to the archetype's struggle against Defog Mega Salamence and Yveltal.
I think, however, that this theard should be primarily for beginners and not for more advanced people.Regarding the disparity between the Pokémon in this thread and the VR, there should be little correlation between the two, due to the rate at which either thread is updated. If anything, this thread should aim to be as comprehensive as possible in order to make apparent the tools available when team-building in this metagame.