Resource Ultra Sun & Moon OU Analysis Discussion

Sorry for double posting, but I think it will be good to clarify why Tapu Fini's superior Water-type STAB move is Scald instead of Surf. The reader may wonder how would Scald be beneficial when it may be counterproductive with Misty Terrain but I would specify that it doesn't let Tapu Bulu come in for free.
It can also burn Pokemon not affected by Misty Terrain like Mega Pinsir, Landorus-T, Celesteela, and regular Gyarados.
 
From Victini's analysis, under the banded set:
Be wary of using V-create against teams with Tyranitar, as it leaves Victini very prone to being trapped by Pursuit.
This statement is incomplete due to the fact that Tyranitar is 2HKO'd by banded V-Create, unlike the scarf set, and happens to be slower even when Victini's at -1. This means Victini is only threatened by ttar if comes in via a clever double switch, volt-turn, or a revenge kill. The same is true for Weavile which also deserves a mention in the analysis. It should be rephrased to take this into account, for example:
Be careful around teams with Weavile or Tyranitar. While they cannot directly switch in on this set, they are capable of Pursuit trapping Victini if they get a free switch.
Also, why are Victini's C&Cs still exclusively for the Z-celebrate set? Especially when they feature near-unmons like scarfchomp mantine and alolan muk, the latter of which don't deal with Bolt Strike and V-create, respectively.
 

Gary

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The V-create statement is supposed to basically cover all grounds and is pretty self-explanatory IMO. Besides, Scarf Tyranitar isn't entirely an unset and sees some usage, which does outspeed CB Tini regardless. There's also Mega T-tar which isn't 2HKOed at all. I think the current statement is fine because regardless of not all T-tar sets being able to switch into CB Tini as well as Weavile for obvious reasons, if Tini gets a kill it's immediately at risk of being Pursuit trapped, or if it V-Creates on a Pokemon with a slow U-turn for example like fat Lando. It doesn't imply hard switching into it. I will add Weavile to it though.

Also, why are Victini's C&Cs still exclusively for the Z-celebrate set? Especially when they feature near-unmons like scarfchomp mantine and alolan muk, the latter of which don't deal with Bolt Strike and V-create, respectively.
Because it's outdated.
 
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Martin

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Seeing how I've been seeing more offensive scarf landos over the past few weeks is there any reason why it's not the main spread again? bulky's cool and all but offensive scarf is the one that's currently S on the sets vr (compared to bulky at A), so it doesn't make a lot of sense to have it not be the main spread, at least IMO.
 

Jordy

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Seeing how I've been seeing more offensive scarf landos over the past few weeks is there any reason why it's not the main spread again? bulky's cool and all but offensive scarf is the one that's currently S on the sets vr (compared to bulky at A), so it doesn't make a lot of sense to have it not be the main spread, at least IMO.
This is mainly because I'm fat and haven't bothered to cms it.

Feel free to do so, otherwise I'll get to it asap.
 

Martin

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This is mainly because I'm fat and haven't bothered to cms it.

Feel free to do so, otherwise I'll get to it asap.
yeah i'll do it in like 10-20 minutes; what do u think the slashing should look like btw? i assume like eq+u-turn+hp ice in first three slots but then what should the filler slot look like? im thinking boom/defog but im not rlly 100% sure
 

Jordy

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yeah i'll do it in like 10-20 minutes; what do u think the slashing should look like btw? i assume like eq+u-turn+hp ice in first three slots but then what should the filler slot look like? im thinking boom/defog but im not rlly 100% sure
Earthquake + U-turn should have no slashes.

Hidden Power Ice should be backslashed behind Explosion and Stone Edge. Defog should be slashed with Explosion and Stone Edge in the 4th slot.

The EV spread is 244/68/196+, this lets it take a +1 Acrobatics from Hawlucha after 1 round of Stealth Rock.
 

Martin

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Screen Shot 2018-10-06 at 01.42.28.png


The changes preview in there is really shit btw because of the set re-ordering thing+the way i've had to approach de-fluffing; don't expect it to be useful. If someone has a spare hour or two to look over this to make sure i did nothing retarded (i almost certainly did) that'd be grand. (use this pastebin if you want to compare current/edited version)

 
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Well! I come to play Snorlax for a Bulky Offense, before i did not play it correctly with 252 HP/ 152 Def/ 104 SpD... After a friends of mines advised me to play it like that 248 HP/252 Def/8 SpD after that can be interesting at the level calc defensive.

252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Subzero Slammer (200 BP) vs. +1 248 HP / 252 Def Snorlax: 276-325 (52.7 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 8+ SpD Snorlax: 169-201 (32.3 - 38.4%) -- 97.5% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Greninja-Ash Hydro Vortex (185 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8+ SpD Snorlax: 285-336 (54.4 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Zygarde Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Snorlax: 186-219 (35.5 - 41.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252+ Atk Zygarde Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Snorlax: 277-327 (52.9 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

After offensively it depends 4th moveset Earthquake can for check Heatran or Magnezone, Fire Punch for Mega Scizor and Ferrothorn ,and Ice Punch allows to check such as Zygarde, Landorus, or Garchomp...

Defensely he is interesing for a Bulky Offense what i think.... :smogthink:
 

Jordy

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Well! I come to play Snorlax for a Bulky Offense, before i did not play it correctly with 252 HP/ 152 Def/ 104 SpD... After a friends of mines advised me to play it like that 248 HP/252 Def/8 SpD after that can be interesting at the level calc defensive.

252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Subzero Slammer (200 BP) vs. +1 248 HP / 252 Def Snorlax: 276-325 (52.7 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 8+ SpD Snorlax: 169-201 (32.3 - 38.4%) -- 97.5% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Greninja-Ash Hydro Vortex (185 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8+ SpD Snorlax: 285-336 (54.4 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Zygarde Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Snorlax: 186-219 (35.5 - 41.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252+ Atk Zygarde Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Snorlax: 277-327 (52.9 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

After offensively it depends 4th moveset Earthquake can for check Heatran or Magnezone, Fire Punch for Mega Scizor and Ferrothorn ,and Ice Punch allows to check such as Zygarde, Landorus, or Garchomp...

Defensely he is interesing for a Bulky Offense what i think.... :smogthink:
It’s not getting an analysis because it’s currently not ranked.
 
Now I'm sure that you are aware of that, but I want to point it out anyway. Tapu Bulu's analysis is just a complete mess. Overview mentions two sets which are not even featured, while instead it should focus imo on how it is a wallbreaker with great defensive utility (or the other way around idk). Another weird thing is that AV and offensive SD-Z-move sets are not even included in Other Options, which is just unfair as these are still (kinda) viable. I simply believe such common mon deserves a better analysis
 

Jordy

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Now I'm sure that you are aware of that, but I want to point it out anyway. Tapu Bulu's analysis is just a complete mess. Overview mentions two sets which are not even featured, while instead it should focus imo on how it is a wallbreaker with great defensive utility (or the other way around idk). Another weird thing is that AV and offensive SD-Z-move sets are not even included in Other Options, which is just unfair as these are still (kinda) viable. I simply believe such common mon deserves a better analysis
Av is bad and offensive is in spdef set details. We will fix the overview.
 
iirc, M.Aerodactyls analysis has been outdated for a while now, god knows if its still viable tho. It mentions Azumarill, Mence, Nihilego, scarf Garchomp and scarf Gengar. Most of its mentions of garchomp seem to have come full circle with garchomps raise in viability however lmao

Edit:

Another forgot C rank, M.Mane, mentions scarf chomp and alola wak, seems like quick edits tho
(idk if alola wak is used or not)
 
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Estronic

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I know this has been mentioned before, but Garchomp's analysis still has outdated info, albeit minor.
Other Options said:
Dual Chop can be used over Dragon Claw to bypass Focus Sash users such as Alakazam and Smeargle at the cost of accuracy. To guarantee an OHKO on Smeargle, Life Orb or Mega Garchomp is a must.
Focus Sash Alakazam and Smeargle aren't prominent in OU, the former being ranked C in viability and the latter being nonexistent in the metagame. Even if Dual Chop can bypass Focus Sash in general, most of the users won't be taking much, such as Landorus-T and the like. Also, to be honest, I've never seen Dual Chop Garchomp been used, nor do I think it should really be considered, so I believe it should be removed altogether. If I'm ignorant and Dual Chop has seen some usage in places other than the OU ladder, my apologies. However, I think the mention of Smeargle should just be removed completely.

Choice Scarf Garchomp is also mentioned a few times in the analysis, specifically in Sword Dance's Usage Tips, Other Options, and Checks and Counters. Considering the Choice Scarf set has been removed in favor of better sets, as well as not even being considered as a real option in Other Options, I think those should be removed as well. Choice Scarf Garchomp is only really used in low ladder anyways and isn't really a good set at all.
 

Mellow

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I know this has been mentioned before, but Garchomp's analysis still has outdated info, albeit minor.

Focus Sash Alakazam and Smeargle aren't prominent in OU, the former being ranked C in viability and the latter being nonexistent in the metagame. Even if Dual Chop can bypass Focus Sash in general, most of the users won't be taking much, such as Landorus-T and the like. Also, to be honest, I've never seen Dual Chop Garchomp been used, nor do I think it should really be considered, so I believe it should be removed altogether. If I'm ignorant and Dual Chop has seen some usage in places other than the OU ladder, my apologies. However, I think the mention of Smeargle should just be removed completely.

Choice Scarf Garchomp is also mentioned a few times in the analysis, specifically in Sword Dance's Usage Tips, Other Options, and Checks and Counters. Considering the Choice Scarf set has been removed in favor of better sets, as well as not even being considered as a real option in Other Options, I think those should be removed as well. Choice Scarf Garchomp is only really used in low ladder anyways and isn't really a good set at all.
It's currently in the process of being revamped. https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/garchomp-revamp-qc-2-3.3640977/
 

Egor

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Excadrill's OO should be rewrited because it mentions options like zsteel that are mentioned in the revamped Sand Rush set.
 
Hi all, first post on these forums. Can we change the mega / band tar sets to have 219 speed instead of 200? This would let it outspeed Jolly Mega Mawile (rare but I've ran into one), as well as banded Victini after a V-create so it isn't just 2hko'd.
 

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