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Undervalued Moves

Does the Technician boost work if the move is not very effective?

Ie: If Ambipom uses Pursuit against a Fighting type as it switches out, will it get a Technician boost since it effectively gets its Power cut in half, then doubled again? (If the fact it isn't effective factors in, then it essentially cancels out Pursuit's doubling effect when the said Fighting type switches out, so will Technician kick in?)
So will it be 40 x 2 = 80 / 2 = 40
Or: 40 x 2 = 80 / 2 = 40 x 1.5 = 60

The reason I ask is because it works to answer other moves questions; let's say Hitmontop uses a Technician Revenge: 60 x 1.5 = 90 x 1.5 = 135.

Let's say a Bug type hits it first, doubling Revenges base Power to 120 removing Technician, then factoring in STAB = 120 x 1.5 = 180.

Let's keep in mind, however, that Bug types resist Fighting moves, cutting Revenge's Power down from 180 to 90, (or 60 when you remove STAB, allowing it to be within Technician's 60 base power limit), will Technician boost it back up to 135?

If so, then that proves Revenge can be more effective than Close Combat when used against foes that resist it because it effectively grows from 180 / 2 = 90 x 1.5 = 135, while Close Combat is always 120 x 1.5 = 180 / 2 = 90 against resisted foes, so it can never be boosted by Technician.
 
hhjj said:
Does the Technician boost work if the move is not very effective?

Ie: If Ambipom uses Pursuit against a Fighting type as it switches out, will it get a Technician boost since it effectively gets its Power cut in half, then doubled again? (If the fact it isn't effective factors in, then it essentially cancels out Pursuit's doubling effect when the said Fighting type switches out, so will Technician kick in?)
So will it be 40 x 2 = 80 / 2 = 40
Or: 40 x 2 = 80 / 2 = 40 x 1.5 = 60

The reason I ask is because it works to answer other moves questions; let's say Hitmontop uses a Technician Revenge: 60 x 1.5 = 90 x 1.5 = 135.

Let's say a Bug type hits it first, doubling Revenges base Power to 120 removing Technician, then factoring in STAB = 120 x 1.5 = 180.

Let's keep in mind, however, that Bug types resist Fighting moves, cutting Revenge's Power down from 180 to 90, (or 60 when you remove STAB, allowing it to be within Technician's 60 base power limit), will Technician boost it back up to 135?

If so, then that proves Revenge can be more effective than Close Combat when used against foes that resist it because it effectively grows from 180 / 2 = 90 x 1.5 = 135, while Close Combat is always 120 x 1.5 = 180 / 2 = 90 against resisted foes, so it can never be boosted by Technician.
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Of course not. Type effectiveness has nothing to do with the base power of a move. And that Revenge vs. Close Combat bit at the end made no logical sense.
 
Taunt? Substitute? U-Turn? These are some of the best moves available and aren't undervalued at all.

I'm going to go with Protect. It scouts, screws explosion, wastes PP, gives Lefties recovery, assists delay moves and gives an extra turn of burn/toxic/sand damage.
 
Taunt is hardly ever used at its full potential. At least from what I've seen. So what if Gyara and D-S use it. With that mind set I could easily say that Protect is hardly undervalued due to ANY pokemon can use it and that it is common on stall teams, vaporeon, blissey, ninjask, and a bunch of others.
 
Safeguard:
This move will void status conditions for 5 turns. While not the best move option, stopping Blissey or Cresselia from inflicting Status as you're setting up is just pure evil, especially if you can't learn Taunt.


Heal Block:
This can prevent healing for 5 turns. Though not too many Pokemon learn this, stopping a wall from recovering is just awesome, especially when you inflicted a status on them.
 
Guard Swap:
Exchanges Defense and Special Defense with opponent. Gimmicky, sure, but it's so rarely used that opponent won't be expecting it. Guard Swap a tank. Now you have a tank while your opponent's tank will be weak and easy to kill if it does not switch out. A Lonely Guard Swap Girafarig (with 0 Def IVs) can easily 2HKO a max HP Cresselia with Crunch after swapping.

Power Swap is a lot less reliable and harder to pull off effectively though (i.e. the pokemon that learn power swap can't really make use of it very well).
 
Equinox said:
Secret Power - Works really well on Jirachi. Gets only a little attack but has Para hax that can hit ground types.
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Why would you use Secret Power on Jirachi when you could use Body Slam? Same effect only 15 more base power.

Guard Swap:
Exchanges Defense and Special Defense with opponent. Gimmicky, sure, but it's so rarely used that opponent won't be expecting it. Guard Swap a tank. Now you have a tank while your opponent's tank will be weak and easy to kill if it does not switch out. A Lonely Guard Swap Girafarig (with 0 Def IVs) can easily 2HKO a max HP Cresselia with Crunch after swapping.
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Doesn't work that way. It only exchanges Defense modifications from moves such as Barrier, Amnesia and Close Combat. Actual stats are irrelevant. If it worked the way you described it certainly would be seeing a lot more use than right now.
 
Perish Song is severly underrated imo. Stops sweeps like Roar/Whirlwind without the negative priority, and the most amazing thing is that it is a godsend to stall teams. How many times have you outplayed your opponent all match only to be swept by a last poke CMCune or CurseLax? Well Perish Songing the last pokemon makes for a great way to guarantee victory :).
 
confuse ray

how has no one mentioned this yet?

confusion can be the most fucking insane status in the game and people's first instinct is to switch so take advantage of that shit
 
Torment: Skrews up Choice users, and works after using Encore.

Imagine a 2v2 team with Wobbafett using Encore, and the teammate using Torment... Soo Annoying.
 
keloggsequent said:
confuse ray

how has no one mentioned this yet?

confusion can be the most fucking insane status in the game and people's first instinct is to switch so take advantage of that shit
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Lanturn can use it with Thunder Wave, but otherwise, there are better ways of forcing switches.

Not that it's not a bad move to begin with.
 
Swagger. As stated before, it can be very risky, but deadly. I run swagger on my annoyer Registeel, due to the help it receives from Iron Defense. Although, I see Swagger being more useful in Double Battles, especially when used on pokemon with Lum/Persim berries, or even Own Tempo.
 
Memento

A fun little move that essentially allows you a free turn to set up. If your opponent does not understand the significance of having their sp.atk/atk. stats lowered two stages then they might stay in. This gives you an extra turn of set up.


For the record: Oblivious prevents attraction. Own Tempo prevents confusion.
 
I second Memento; it's great for letting something get set up that isn't really threatening enough normally to scare things off and get set up on the switch.

As an example of its use, I used a Will-O-Wisp/Memento Dusknoir on one team to set up a Belly Drum Linoone. Dusknoir WoW'ed the opponent's Weavile, and then used Memento. Linoone came in, and Weavile used Brick Break, doing maybe 27% or so, while Linoone Belly Drums down to under 25%, getting a Salac Boost. Linoone then went on to clean sweep 6 pokes. It's a situational move, but it can help with gimmick sets like Linoone in OU.
 
I also love Memento. I use an Uxie that sets up SR and screens/Mementos (Might work TW into that somewhere too).
Out comes Charizard to Sub or drum on the switch :)
 
Spikes, because people don't spin anymore, they just make sure their team isn't SR weak. Things like Heatran and Scizor taking 25% on the switchin is so helpful.
 
Hm, since Confuse Ray and Swagger got mentioned, Flatter deserves a mention too. Basically same as swagger except boosting special attack instead of attack, and 100% accuracy (like Confuse Ray) instead of 90%. Not many can learn it though.
 
Confuse Ray completely outclasses Flatter. They do the same thing but Flatter gives the opponent a SpA boost. The only reason Swagger differentiates itself from Confuse Ray is because the foe's boosted Atk will cause them more recoil damage when they hit themselves.
 
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