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Unofficial UUs (Read Post #13) (don't post bugs here)

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No need to yell friend... wow. I'm new here and it was just a question. I also have many underlying social issues such as anxiety/bipolar disorder/ and ADD.

I also CAME OUT in the winter of 2007 during christmas dinner and I've lived a hard sheltered life ever since I've been judged enough... I really don't need it from you....
nobody gives a fuck

UU ALL DAY : personally even on offensive megatoise i still prefer to run scald over water pulse. the burn chance that scald brings is always useful and the effect it has on the opponent's pokemon is permanent (unlike confusion, which heals when you switch). 12.5% damage on a pokemon racks up really quickly, especially when you combine it with things like knock off and hazards. screwing over your opponent's physical attackers is always a plus (you pretty much only lose if you face some guy that isn't using mega heracross, but rather guts or something) in contrast, the 10bp isn't really something to kill for, especially not that confusion chance. (i'd rather use hydro pump anyway, but yeah =P)
 
So ive been playing with sub mega gard and boy is it a powerhouse! Ive been running hyper voice/shadow ball/ psyshock and it 2hkos almoat the entire tier.

Also what do you think is a good check to staraptor? I was thinking of av/cb metagross...
 
So ive been playing with sub mega gard and boy is it a powerhouse! Ive been running hyper voice/shadow ball/ psyshock and it 2hkos almoat the entire tier.

Also what do you think is a good check to staraptor? I was thinking of av/cb metagross...
Doublade is a solid check to staraptor.
 
doublade is a pretty bad option in the meta though with knock off basically being one of the most common moves in the tier. being heavily item-reliant is already one negative for doublade, not to mention being weak to it...
 
doublade is a pretty bad option in the meta though with knock off basically being one of the most common moves in the tier. being heavily item-reliant is already one negative for doublade, not to mention being weak to it...
You know, I don't really agree with this statement. I don't think it makes much sense - sure, Knock Off is the new Scald and without a doubt the most spammable move in the meta, but that means it's also one of the most easy to predict. While I agree that Doublade is especially threatened by it since he's used to check physical attackers who might be running it as a weird coverage move (especially Fighting-types), and you definitely can't afford to scout Hera's moveset, keep in mind that it is stupidly bulky : I found out today that my Dread Plate Adamant Bisharp did not OHKO it after SR (while it obv OHKOed back).
I guess my point is that Knock Off does not suddenly make item reliance a bad thing. More often that not you'll see a Bisharp/Weavile/Crawdaunt in team preview and and make sure to keep your Blastoise healthy or something, but "oh shit this thing gets Knock Off" moments are few and far between (I've actually run into a Knock Off Eelektross lol that thing was a threat). But something like Chansey for instance is not suddenly made any worse by the move as it won't be taking "stray Knock Offs", since you should run a Knock-Off switch-in like Cobalion, just like you need a Shadow Ball switch-in in OU.

I'm bringing up Chansey because I feel like it's still the beast it was during the previous gen and the most "suspect-worthy" mon in the tier for me atm. It's mixed bulk is fantastic and lately it feels like it's become my main win condition, even though I run a freaking SD Diggersby lol. At some time during the game it just gets to the point where the opponent really doesn't have anything that can kill it anymore (note that Bisharp is def not a Chansey counter). That much physical bulk feels really unfair when you wall damn near all the special attackers in UU except Keldeo, mixed Tornadus/Thundurus and Sub Chandy. I came out on top of a Sub/Pain Split/Psyshock Mega-Gardevoir recently by virtue of running both Wish and Softboiled. For this reason I feel like running a strong Fighting-type is nearly a requirement, but then again it might cripple you with Thunder Wave as you switch it in (I don't really get TWave Chansey, whenever I run it I find myself missing Toxic but then it's invariably used effectively against me :/). So how do you guys keep Chansey in check ?
 
You know, I don't really agree with this statement. I don't think it makes much sense - sure, Knock Off is the new Scald and without a doubt the most spammable move in the meta, but that means it's also one of the most easy to predict. While I agree that Doublade is especially threatened by it since he's used to check physical attackers who might be running it as a weird coverage move (especially Fighting-types), and you definitely can't afford to scout Hera's moveset, keep in mind that it is stupidly bulky : I found out today that my Dread Plate Adamant Bisharp did not OHKO it after SR (while it obv OHKOed back).
I guess my point is that Knock Off does not suddenly make item reliance a bad thing. More often that not you'll see a Bisharp/Weavile/Crawdaunt in team preview and and make sure to keep your Blastoise healthy or something, but "oh shit this thing gets Knock Off" moments are few and far between (I've actually run into a Knock Off Eelektross lol that thing was a threat). But something like Chansey for instance is not suddenly made any worse by the move as it won't be taking "stray Knock Offs", since you should run a Knock-Off switch-in like Cobalion, just like you need a Shadow Ball switch-in in OU.

I'm bringing up Chansey because I feel like it's still the beast it was during the previous gen and the most "suspect-worthy" mon in the tier for me atm. It's mixed bulk is fantastic and lately it feels like it's become my main win condition, even though I run a freaking SD Diggersby lol. At some time during the game it just gets to the point where the opponent really doesn't have anything that can kill it anymore (note that Bisharp is def not a Chansey counter). That much physical bulk feels really unfair when you wall damn near all the special attackers in UU except Keldeo, mixed Tornadus/Thundurus and Sub Chandy. I came out on top of a Sub/Pain Split/Psyshock Mega-Gardevoir recently by virtue of running both Wish and Softboiled. For this reason I feel like running a strong Fighting-type is nearly a requirement, but then again it might cripple you with Thunder Wave as you switch it in (I don't really get TWave Chansey, whenever I run it I find myself missing Toxic but then it's invariably used effectively against me :/). So how do you guys keep Chansey in check ?
I wholly disagree with this post. The thing that makes Doublade a mediocre Pokemon despite checking Mega Heracross is that it is weak to Knock Off and loses its main selling point in the process of being hit by it. Also, I'm on my phone so I can't do calcs, but I'm 99% sure two Knock Offs from Bisharp will get rid of Doublade (edit: confirmed).

Chansey faces the exact same problem, except it isn't weak to Knock Off. After having its Eviolite removed, it is easily killed off by any strong physical attacker. Furthermore, Chansey isn't the wall it used to be last gen because of the major power creep in this gens UU. Many of the top tier threats don't really care for it and use it as setup bait. Pokemon like Keldeo, Zygarde and Mega Heracross can easily deal with it, especially if they're running Substitute sets. I also don't see how Chansey can be your win condition when it has zero offensive presence. The only way it can ever hope to do damage is via Toxic/Seismic Toss. Sure it can stall stuff out, but eventually it itself will get PP stalled. Now I'm not saying that Chansey is a bad Pokemon, it is a great mixed wall on stall teams, but that's really about it. It's not the monster it once was, since there are many factors in this tier that prevents it from being anywhere near broken.
 
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^ I've played so many matches with Chansey and I've never run out of PP on any move with it yet. I don't think I've even got close to running out of PP with it before. I think that scenario where it runs out of PP is probably very rare.
 
I wholly disagree with this post. The thing that makes Doublade a mediocre Pokemon despite checking Mega Heracross is that it is weak to Knock Off and loses its main selling point in the process of being hit by it. Also, I'm on my phone so I can't do calcs, but I'm 99% sure two Knock Offs from Bisharp will get rid of Doublade (edit: confirmed).

Chansey faces the exact same problem, except it isn't weak to Knock Off. After having its Eviolite removed, it is easily killed off by any strong physical attacker. Furthermore, Chansey isn't the wall it used to be last gen because of the major power creep in this gens UU. Many of the top tier threats don't really care for it and use it as setup bait. Pokemon like Keldeo, Zygarde and Mega Heracross can easily deal with it, especially if they're running Substitute sets. I also don't see how Chansey can be your win condition when it has zero offensive presence. The only way it can ever hope to do damage is via Toxic/Seismic Toss. Sure it can stall stuff out, but eventually it itself will get PP stalled. Now I'm not saying that Chansey is a bad Pokemon, it is a great mixed wall on stall teams, but that's really about it. It's not the monster it once was, since there are many factors in this tier that prevents it from being anywhere near broken.
You make some very fair points, but I still don't see why you assume that Chansey's Eviolite will be removed at any given time during the match. It's not like you have to stay in to get Knocked Off and I guess my post should have dwelt more on the fact that I think you pretty much need to run something to take Knock Offs on your team, especially if you're using Bulky Offense. My calling Chansey a win condition was pretty much an exaggeration and I'm not saying you should be using to tank physical hits anytime soon. But still having a physically-based mon is no guarantee of victory in the end-game because when it comes down to it, Chansey can take a lot of punishment. For instance:
252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 357-421 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
A scarf Darmanitan VS Chansey scenario is by no means unlikely and it will kill itself from huge recoil while failling to outdamage Softboiled significantly. Despite you having a point about Sub set-up physical sweepers (and I actually forgot about Superpower Hydregion myself), the utility Chansey brings even to Offensive teams is unparalleled.
 
252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 357-421 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
A scarf Darmanitan VS Chansey scenario is by no means unlikely and it will kill itself from huge recoil while failling to outdamage Softboiled significantly.

So your calc proves chansey can't switch in on jolly scarf darmanitan, now what if that darmanitan has a choice band or life orb instead and/or is adamant? Now it can guarantee a 2hko if it switches in and all you can do back is toxic/t-wave or seismic toss once, sure the darmanitan will be heavily damaged by recoil but that's a trade I'd take any day, especially considering how chansey is mostly run by stall and its wishes/aromatgerapy tend to be the glue that keeps stall teams together.
 
You make some very fair points, but I still don't see why you assume that Chansey's Eviolite will be removed at any given time during the match. It's not like you have to stay in to get Knocked Off and I guess my post should have dwelt more on the fact that I think you pretty much need to run something to take Knock Offs on your team, especially if you're using Bulky Offense. My calling Chansey a win condition was pretty much an exaggeration and I'm not saying you should be using to tank physical hits anytime soon. But still having a physically-based mon is no guarantee of victory in the end-game because when it comes down to it, Chansey can take a lot of punishment. For instance:
252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 357-421 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
A scarf Darmanitan VS Chansey scenario is by no means unlikely and it will kill itself from huge recoil while failling to outdamage Softboiled significantly. Despite you having a point about Sub set-up physical sweepers (and I actually forgot about Superpower Hydregion myself), the utility Chansey brings even to Offensive teams is unparalleled.
Not every mon with knock off is a strong physical attacker that Chansey wouldn't want to stay in on anyway; Tangrowth and Gligar for example are mons that chansey usually doesn't fear much, but both carry Knock Off.
Also, aside from the fact that you specifically choose one of the very few physical attackers that doesn't commonly carry a fighting move and has huge recoil, the problem for stall teams never was scarfed Darmanitan, but LO-Darmanitan:
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 508-601 (72.1 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
He still nearly kills himself in process, but Chansey gets 2HKOed no matter what, and OHKOed with little prior damage.
Imho, while I used Chansey quite some time myself and it seemed decent, even in this metagame, I never had problems beating it; Any physical Attacker with fighting-type attacks(emphasis on attacker; A physically based wall most likely won't be able to do that) can usually dispatch it, if you get to hit it with a stray knock off, even some special attackers will get past it, it very easily gets worn down to the lack of leftovers, taunt shuts it down completely, it's set-up bait and just one Nasty Plot can turn some special attackers from "easily walled" to "getting 2HKOed" ... One of the more funny ways to beat the wish-passing set is to roar chansey out with a mon that isn't considered a threat before it gets a chance to heal itself; If you have hazards up, it probably won't survive the next switch-in.

Anyway, if you want to use Chansey to its full potential, I would combine it with a sturdy mega, like Aggron or Blastoise, to take the Knock-Offs, while chansey can heal them up with Wish. Granbull also makes a good pairing, since it can take both fighting moves and knock-off with ease, though it really dislikes the loss of leftovers and thus is easily worn down.
 
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Deoxys + Bisharp is threatening. Personally, I feel like Deoxys (both forms) and Bisharp will go up to OU.

What do you guys think of Defensive Mega-Blastoise? Do you guys still run Scald, or do you opt for Water Pulse?

If you're running defensive, Scald would be better. Water Pulse packs more of a punch, but Scald's burn chance is just too much of a god-send... Even if you're going offensive, Water Pulse would fall short of Hydro Pump's power (even though its accuracy is better) IMO.
 
Chansey faces the exact same problem, except it isn't weak to Knock Off. After having its Eviolite removed, it is easily killed off by any strong physical attacker. Furthermore, Chansey isn't the wall it used to be last gen because of the major power creep in this gens UU. Many of the top tier threats don't really care for it and use it as setup bait. Pokemon like Keldeo, Zygarde and Mega Heracross can easily deal with it, especially if they're running Substitute sets. I also don't see how Chansey can be your win condition when it has zero offensive presence. The only way it can ever hope to do damage is via Toxic/Seismic Toss. Sure it can stall stuff out, but eventually it itself will get PP stalled. Now I'm not saying that Chansey is a bad Pokemon, it is a great mixed wall on stall teams, but that's really about it. It's not the monster it once was, since there are many factors in this tier that prevents it from being anywhere near broken.

My calling Chansey a win condition was pretty much an exaggeration and I'm not saying you should be using to tank physical hits anytime soon. But still having a physically-based mon is no guarantee of victory in the end-game because when it comes down to it, Chansey can take a lot of punishment. For instance:
252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 357-421 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
A scarf Darmanitan VS Chansey scenario is by no means unlikely and it will kill itself from huge recoil while failling to outdamage Softboiled significantly. Despite you having a point about Sub set-up physical sweepers (and I actually forgot about Superpower Hydregion myself), the utility Chansey brings even to Offensive teams is unparalleled.

Here's a Youtube video of Chansey beating a Life Orb Super Power Hydreigon, Mega Aggron and Scarf Darmanitan using Flare Blitz all by itself. I thought I'd post it since it's very specific to this discussion. Watch from about 8:30 onwards.

 
Here's a Youtube video of Chansey beating a Life Orb Super Power Hydreigon, Mega Aggron and Scarf Darmanitan using Flare Blitz all by itself. I thought I'd post it since it's very specific to this discussion. Watch from about 8:30 onwards.

The thing is, if he had just stayed in with his Darmanitan, he would have gotten Chansey to around lower then 45% (the Chansey was losing around 22% HP every turn, and he could Flare Blitz once more without dying). After losing his Darmanitan, he could have gone to Hydreigon and would have rid the opponent's team of the Chansey even if he ran no Attack EVs. Afterwards, he could have beat that Celebi with his Mega Aggron or Hydreigon ;-; He just played poorly and lost because of it (unless I'm missing something) :o
 
The thing is, if he had just stayed in with his Darmanitan, he would have gotten Chansey to around lower then 45% (the Chansey was losing around 22% HP every turn, and he could Flare Blitz once more without dying). After losing his Darmanitan, he could have gone to Hydreigon and would have rid the opponent's team of the Chansey even if he ran no Attack EVs. Afterwards, he could have beat that Celebi with his Mega Aggron or Hydreigon ;-; He just played poorly and lost because of it (unless I'm missing something) :o

The Chansey was losing less than 22% each turn by my calculations. The first Flare Blitz + Softboiled left it with a 9% loss, and the second time left it with an 8% loss. It was on 81% when the Darmanitan switched out, so if it had stayed in and used Flare Blitz with the Chansey using Softboiled again, it would have left Chansey with about 70%, which would still have let it survive the Hydreigon's first Superpower (which did 52%).

I think he was actually in a more favourable position sending out Mega Aggron in-between, since when it fainted the Chansey was left with 66% for Darmanitan's final Flare Blitz, rather than the 81% it would have had if it stayed in. If the Aggron could have left the Chansey with under 60% that would have left it in KO range for the Flare Blitz, although I assume the Chansey user was making sure not to KO the Aggron until Chansey was back outside Flare Blitz KO range.

I think the best thing he could have done in that situation would be to send Hydreigon in earlier and keep trying for critical hit Superpower tbh.

I think he could have won to be fair, had he kept the Scolipede alive. It had Swords Dance, and Toxic immunity, so would have had a field day against Chansey. A Life Orb Darmanitan probably could have been able to beat the Chansey too, as someone mentioned earlier, but the scarfed ones can still struggle against it if it begins with around 80% or more.
 
The Chansey was losing less than 22% each turn by my calculations. The first Flare Blitz + Softboiled left it with a 9% loss, and the second time left it with an 8% loss. It was on 81% when the Darmanitan switched out, so if it had stayed in and used Flare Blitz with the Chansey using Softboiled again, it would have left Chansey with about 70%, which would still have let it survive the Hydreigon's first Superpower (which did 52%).

I think he was actually in a more favourable position sending out Mega Aggron in-between, since when it fainted the Chansey was left with 66% for Darmanitan's final Flare Blitz, rather than the 81% it would have had if it stayed in. If the Aggron could have left the Chansey with under 60% that would have left it in KO range for the Flare Blitz, although I assume the Chansey user was making sure not to KO the Aggron until Chansey was back outside Flare Blitz KO range.

I think the best thing he could have done in that situation would be to send Hydreigon in earlier and keep trying for critical hit Superpower tbh.

I think he could have won to be fair, had he kept the Scolipede alive. It had Swords Dance, and Toxic immunity, so would have had a field day against Chansey. A Life Orb Darmanitan probably could have been able to beat the Chansey too, as someone mentioned earlier, but the scarfed ones can still struggle against it if it begins with around 80% or more.
Yeah you're write, I misunderstood something and my calcs were way off lol. I guess that Chansey can stall some Pokemon out, but his team didn't carry Knock Off and was fairly weak to a slew of common Pokemon (Mega Heracross is one, as we saw in the video), so his opponent did have a better match-up, but meh, my argument still stands as there are many Pokemon that can beat Chansey, it's just that Mega Aggron, Choice Scarf Darmanitan, and mixed Hydreigon aren't one of them :/

On a completely unrelated note, do ragequits really look like that irl?? I had a completely different idea...
 
Here's a Youtube video of Chansey beating a Life Orb Super Power Hydreigon, Mega Aggron and Scarf Darmanitan using Flare Blitz all by itself. I thought I'd post it since it's very specific to this discussion. Watch from about 8:30 onwards.


That's a Jolly Scarf Darmanitan, had it been Adamant with LO/CB or even Jolly with CB the Chansey would have been cleanly 2HKO'd after a Soft Boiled.

252+ Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 586-691 (83.2 - 98.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 508-601 (72.1 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 535-630 (75.9 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Also his Darmanitan took Prior damage from killing the Heracross.
 
That's a Jolly Scarf Darmanitan, had it been Adamant with LO/CB or even Jolly with CB the Chansey would have been cleanly 2HKO'd after a Soft Boiled.

252+ Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 586-691 (83.2 - 98.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 508-601 (72.1 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 535-630 (75.9 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Also his Darmanitan took Prior damage from killing the Heracross.

I'm not really seeing why you're trying to sell LO/CB versions when scarf has a pretty specific niche to teams as a scout/revenge/late game sweeper that give it a lot of utility compared to LO/CB, which actually is more a wall breaker so if it is more tailored to taking down Chansey it shouldn't be much of a mystery as to why.That I do not think the choice to run scarf such is particularly a demerit.

Moreover, Jolly Scarf Darmanitian is more the norm than anything, particularly due to his speed tier being rather crowded and only decidedly average (which is quite crippling for a Pokemon with such paper thin defenses not helped by his typing), that scarf jolly is a more relevant set to consider than CB/LO.
 
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I'm not really seeing why you're trying to sell LO/CB versions when scarf has a pretty specific niche to teams as a scout/revenge/late game sweeper that give it a lot of utility compared to LO/CB, which actually is more a wall breaker so if it is more tailored to taking down Chansey it shouldn't be much of a mystery as to why.That I do not think the choice to run scarf such is particularly a demerit.

Moreover, Jolly Scarf Darmanitian is more the norm than anything, particularly due to his speed tier being rather crowded and only decidedly average (which is quite crippling for a Pokemon with such paper thin defenses not helped by his typing), that scarf jolly is a more relevant set to consider than CB/LO.

I'd argue that if anything Scarf Adamant should be the relevant set as Scarf Jolly will be outsped by most scarfers regardless, anyway we're talking about breaking down Chansey (a wall), so I do think that wallbreakers are quite relevant in this scenario...
 
I'd argue that if anything Scarf Adamant should be the relevant set as Scarf Jolly will be outsped by most scarfers regardless, anyway we're talking about breaking down Chansey (a wall), so I do think that wallbreakers are quite relevant in this scenario...

Except Scarf Jolly Darm is not primarily to be played as a wall breaker, obviously it lacks power, whereas the sets you're looking at is so I do question why you try to make a comparison between two very different roles relegated to Darm. Frankly, the discussion is more about Chansey as a mixed all and considering that not many would be able to boast the same feat of actually being able to take a hit from Darm and not being outright OHKOed was the merit being brought up. Besides Chansey should not be by any means the primary switch in to Darm, even if it can take a hit, but more of if push came to shove the fact that it can't be outright OHKOed relatively healthy is the relevant information - as it can opt to stay in and proceed to cripple the attacker gain momentum for her team mates to utilize and proceed to switch out and recover later especially given her special bulk.
 
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