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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
- Start date
They remind me of Sentai series like Power Rangers and junk and so I tend to like them. In particular all the names and poses and everything reminds me in particular of Gokaiger as seen like here:
If you watch even part of that video imagine that voiceover guy screaming out the names of the Z-moves (and some of the Super Sentai names are just as cheesy as the Z-moves). That's what I always do.
Eh, I actually like some of the names (like Oceanic Operette)... aside the Japanese version ones which sounds basic on some (Dynamic Full-flame... really? *facepalm* OK, it does sound cool for school kids).
I'm rather indifferent as well on the poses.
I'm rather indifferent as well on the poses.
FRLG sucked, arguably more than RBY.
My reasoning for this is that RBY were flawed first entries into the series. I'm not a fan of gen 1 and I'll be vocal about that til the end of the time, but that's not an uncommon opinion especially nowadays as backlash to all the gen 1 love at the expense of other gens. But I feel like FRLG were arguably worse. My reason is that it was a remake of RBY made after the series had a chance to solidify itself and work out some of the bugs that 1 had introduced... and rather than make use of any of that they opted for a remake as accurate as possible to the original (sans the obvious addition of post-game content, which I'll admit was a good decision) and that means... that all of the issues the original had stayed intact with very little done to address them. The ridiculous level curve for one, but the other problem I had was that the issues with Psychic being an overpowered type were actually not alleviated like at all for the remakes. Special being split into two functions helped a little, but apart from that... Steel and Dark were introduced basically for the purpose of balancing Psychic. And you could get exactly 0 Dark types and 1 Steel type in the new Kanto, not to mention that FRLG's draconian policy toward getting out-of-dex Pokémon made it unwieldy or impossible to get anything except for that Magneton. You couldn't get a Crobat with fast Bite for flinch purposes, you couldn't get an Umbreon or your own Espeon, you couldn't get a Steelix, you couldn't get a Scizor. So you're stuck with ... Bite, Crunch, and Feint Attack off the few Pokémon that could learn them, which are Special-based moves and so useless for most of their learners (except maybe Wartortle???), to fight an entire region of broken Psychic. Like seriously I get Game Freak wanted to make a faithful remake of "everyone's favorite games" but did you ever think that maybe it might be prudent to make them Remakes But Also Better?
For the record I think HGSS did the remake thing a lot better, and then ORAS did it right. I'm not a fan of ORAS' constant tutorializing and handholding compared the original, but to me ORAS feels like Game Freak basically wrote down the key points for RSE and then scrapped all of RSE and wrote an entirely new game with RSE's key points, as opposed to FRLG which felt like "RBY but with better graphics". ORAS felt like a rehaul more than anything and I think we ended up with a better game (in comparison to the original) than FRLG or HGSS. That's not to say I like ORAS more (I think Emerald is my favorite game, and not ORAS), just that ORAS is better than either of the other remakes with respect to its source material. If DPPt get remakes following this trend, they might actually be some of my favorite Pokémon games and not my second-least-favorite as they currently are.
My reasoning for this is that RBY were flawed first entries into the series. I'm not a fan of gen 1 and I'll be vocal about that til the end of the time, but that's not an uncommon opinion especially nowadays as backlash to all the gen 1 love at the expense of other gens. But I feel like FRLG were arguably worse. My reason is that it was a remake of RBY made after the series had a chance to solidify itself and work out some of the bugs that 1 had introduced... and rather than make use of any of that they opted for a remake as accurate as possible to the original (sans the obvious addition of post-game content, which I'll admit was a good decision) and that means... that all of the issues the original had stayed intact with very little done to address them. The ridiculous level curve for one, but the other problem I had was that the issues with Psychic being an overpowered type were actually not alleviated like at all for the remakes. Special being split into two functions helped a little, but apart from that... Steel and Dark were introduced basically for the purpose of balancing Psychic. And you could get exactly 0 Dark types and 1 Steel type in the new Kanto, not to mention that FRLG's draconian policy toward getting out-of-dex Pokémon made it unwieldy or impossible to get anything except for that Magneton. You couldn't get a Crobat with fast Bite for flinch purposes, you couldn't get an Umbreon or your own Espeon, you couldn't get a Steelix, you couldn't get a Scizor. So you're stuck with ... Bite, Crunch, and Feint Attack off the few Pokémon that could learn them, which are Special-based moves and so useless for most of their learners (except maybe Wartortle???), to fight an entire region of broken Psychic. Like seriously I get Game Freak wanted to make a faithful remake of "everyone's favorite games" but did you ever think that maybe it might be prudent to make them Remakes But Also Better?
For the record I think HGSS did the remake thing a lot better, and then ORAS did it right. I'm not a fan of ORAS' constant tutorializing and handholding compared the original, but to me ORAS feels like Game Freak basically wrote down the key points for RSE and then scrapped all of RSE and wrote an entirely new game with RSE's key points, as opposed to FRLG which felt like "RBY but with better graphics". ORAS felt like a rehaul more than anything and I think we ended up with a better game (in comparison to the original) than FRLG or HGSS. That's not to say I like ORAS more (I think Emerald is my favorite game, and not ORAS), just that ORAS is better than either of the other remakes with respect to its source material. If DPPt get remakes following this trend, they might actually be some of my favorite Pokémon games and not my second-least-favorite as they currently are.
Not disagreeing with what you said, but just because RBY was the first games and were buggy doesn't mean they get a free pass. Missed potential doesn't mean inferiority. If we look at FRLG and RBY side by side, FRLG are clearly superior, I think. The sheer upgrade of graphics makes it a better game, but they went further and fixed many game breaking or abusable glitches, improved the music and added Post Game content (as you said). Physical Pokemon have better movepools (this is down to Gen 3 as a whole but still) with better STAB choices and general level up options making the physically frail broken Psychics more managable (in particular Alakazam) as most Psychics not called Alakazam (or Kadabra) have other issues with hold them back (and also aren't as common or important).
tl;dr FRLG missed a lot of potential but that doesn't make them worse compared to RBY
tl;dr FRLG missed a lot of potential but that doesn't make them worse compared to RBY
No, I completely agree, but that's a pretty common opinion so I was trying to explain why I thought FRLG in particular were still shit and almost worse because of it. I know they're not strictly worse than RBY - very little is - but I kind of consider them worse relative to the time in which they were released compared to RBY, if that makes any sense. Most of FRLG's improvements were natural consequences of being part of gen 3 and very few of them were improvements on RBY. At least that's how I see it, it makes more sense in my mind probably lol
Yeah this makes perfect sense, don't worry. You're right in that, while FRLG are better than RBY when compared side by side, many of the advancements are simply because they used the RSE engine. They could and should've been better than they were. The only notable improvement was post game (which is big, but only one thing and not the main story).
HGSS didn't fix a lot of GSC's problem either. It's FRLG all over again. I don't think it was done particularly better. The most major things (Phy/Spe split) was a result of Gen 4 itself, not the remake. I'm struggling to think of that many major improvements HGSS made over GSC outside of Gen 4 things (engine/mechanics). The levelling curve is down right abysmal and so much worse than any other Pokemon game. I feel that HGSS are popular because they ride the Gen 4 nostalgia wave, because when I write this I realise how simialr it is to the RBY/FRLG situation.
As you said, ORAS did it well.
EDIT @ Below: I forgot about Emerald. In that case, if we include Emerald in the equation then ORAS isn't up to scratch anymore.
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I actually feel ORAS done the remake the worst of all three because of the improvements introduced in Emerald, they were either ignored or hastily shoved into a postgame episode. All the encounter table modifications, all the trainer team improvements (especially the gym leaders), all the added trainers and set-pieces across the map that made much better use of the new double battle mechanic rather than the bare minimum... playing RS after Emerald feels extremely dry, so to not have ORAS modeled upon the latter feels like such a major mis-step I can't enjoy it as much as I did FRLG.
I don't like HGSS - mostly due to the original game's large design faults and the slow Gen 4 engine - but as a remake, I felt that what it changed, what it kept intact, what new things it introduced and what it took from the third version was nigh-perfect; the only real fault - aside from those aforementioned things which are up to taste and are inevitable so not really things you could fix - was keeping the very odd distribution of Pokémon (no Sneasel, Houndour etc until postgame) and not allowing every new Gen 4 evolution until postgame. Otherwise, it's the perfect example of how to do a remake to me. Far better than ORAS.
Though at the end of the day, the enjoyment of these remakes still falls to how good the original games were - none of them are much better or much worse than the original aside from the obvious improvements in terms of the engine and mechanics. For that reason FRLG is still one of my favourite Pokémon games because I simply feel the original games still had some of the best design in the franchise, and it's remake is just a better version of that. And it also took certain steps to make the game much smoother and enjoyable, such as introducing the VS Seeker to make grinding exp and money a possibility.
I don't like HGSS - mostly due to the original game's large design faults and the slow Gen 4 engine - but as a remake, I felt that what it changed, what it kept intact, what new things it introduced and what it took from the third version was nigh-perfect; the only real fault - aside from those aforementioned things which are up to taste and are inevitable so not really things you could fix - was keeping the very odd distribution of Pokémon (no Sneasel, Houndour etc until postgame) and not allowing every new Gen 4 evolution until postgame. Otherwise, it's the perfect example of how to do a remake to me. Far better than ORAS.
Though at the end of the day, the enjoyment of these remakes still falls to how good the original games were - none of them are much better or much worse than the original aside from the obvious improvements in terms of the engine and mechanics. For that reason FRLG is still one of my favourite Pokémon games because I simply feel the original games still had some of the best design in the franchise, and it's remake is just a better version of that. And it also took certain steps to make the game much smoother and enjoyable, such as introducing the VS Seeker to make grinding exp and money a possibility.
I too think that FireRed and LeafGreen are weak remakes - you could ROM Hack the Gen I games to patch out the most game-breaking bugs and you'd end up with practically the same game.
(in fact, the only time I actually endured up to beating one of them was with a text ROM Hack because it felt very bland otherwise. I'd say, it feels like it's a filler game)
I can't say anything about ORAS (unsure on whether buying one of them, and maybe one of XY, or not - is it worth having easy-to-access Gen VI Pokemon for Pokebank?) but I liked HGSS...'s interface. The game itself is somewhat bland like FRLG (though not so much), but the features it has are really good, ranging from Always Run, highlighting stats that are affected by natures, a portable berry growing system (only outdone by Poke Pelago), and what I think is the best Pokedex we have seen in the game, among others...
(in fact, the only time I actually endured up to beating one of them was with a text ROM Hack because it felt very bland otherwise. I'd say, it feels like it's a filler game)
I can't say anything about ORAS (unsure on whether buying one of them, and maybe one of XY, or not - is it worth having easy-to-access Gen VI Pokemon for Pokebank?) but I liked HGSS...'s interface. The game itself is somewhat bland like FRLG (though not so much), but the features it has are really good, ranging from Always Run, highlighting stats that are affected by natures, a portable berry growing system (only outdone by Poke Pelago), and what I think is the best Pokedex we have seen in the game, among others...
Outside of the dislike of HGSS, I agree with you 100% here. I was always a fan of the original GS so seeing how they tweaked with the game just enough and what new things were added just made the game stand out as probably one of my favorites. And if it wasn't for the fact that it was so slow in ways compared to modern games, it would be probably the top game for me.
Honestly, my biggest problem with ORAS happens to be rather nitpicky for a feature they threw in so people could catch new Pokemon and junk, but I feel it is valid. I just don't like their versions of the Mirage Islands and ESPECIALLY the sudden appearance of random legends. I get that for the latter, Hoopa is the presumed cause of it. But idk, the whole thing feels weird and short and kind of uninteresting (especially when you already have a complete National Dex in your PokeBank). The legends also feel like a cop out. Then you have the fact that they put TMs and Cresselia in some of the randomly appearing islands and you get something that just makes me pissed off.
Cresselia~~
Junichi Masuda likes this!!
I actually find them quite cool... if kids do them.
I think they wanted these elaborate dance movements in Pokemon because many Japanese kids were dancing Yokai Watch dances in public.
Speaking of remakes, here an opinion that's definitely unpopular.
I hated having Pokemon walk behind you in HGSS, and I'm glad it's a feature that has yet to return. It caused a lot of slowdown with actions such as entering buldings with large Pokemon or healing Pokemon (especially if the 1st mon is fainted), which is unfortunate since the games debuted in the slowest playing generation of the series. It was also obnoxious and quite frankly too distracting, and it just seemed like a waste of data space to me.
I know a lot of fans liked it and want it to return, but I don't miss it at all, especially since we have Amie and Refresh now to interact with our Pokemon in a better and much less obnoxious fashion. If Game Freak does end up bringing it back, then at least make it an option that can be toggled on and off for gods sake.
I hated having Pokemon walk behind you in HGSS, and I'm glad it's a feature that has yet to return. It caused a lot of slowdown with actions such as entering buldings with large Pokemon or healing Pokemon (especially if the 1st mon is fainted), which is unfortunate since the games debuted in the slowest playing generation of the series. It was also obnoxious and quite frankly too distracting, and it just seemed like a waste of data space to me.
I know a lot of fans liked it and want it to return, but I don't miss it at all, especially since we have Amie and Refresh now to interact with our Pokemon in a better and much less obnoxious fashion. If Game Freak does end up bringing it back, then at least make it an option that can be toggled on and off for gods sake.
News to me. Wonder why in S/M though if they're not utilized?
I mean, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Game Freak did bring the feature back in a future game since a lot of fans liked it and want it to return; heck, if they ever release remakes of DPPt, it's going to be mandatory to at least a certain degree because of Amity Square. I'm just not one of those fans, and I'm sure there are a few others out there.
So with that being said:
Altissimo Your criticism of FRLG ("it's just the old game with a newer engine") applies just as much to HGSS and ORAS. I personally only played FRLG recently (some time in 2016, when I was off work sick), and had a blast doing so, but that's mainly because of the nostalgia. It is simply a better version of RBY and I don't think it really needed to do a lot else - for me at least. In fact if anything I got a bit irritated with tiny differences in the game compared to RBY - for example I remember getting really pissed off that I couldn't get a Staryu in Seafoam and if I wanted to use a Starmie on my team I'd have to catch it with a Rod at a stupidly low level. So in some ways I wish it could have been more like RBY.
Differences of opinion, then - I prefer remakes make an effort to improve upon the original's shortcomings where possible. I felt like ORAS and to some extent HGSS (especially HGSS' massively improved Kanto) did that, but I also might be blinded by my distate for gen 1 when talking about ORAS and HGSS being better.
The problem I had with FR/LG was that they tried SUPER hard to PREVENT you from acting outside of what originally occurred in Red and Blue while not even doing that. I could explain more but these are the games that prevented you from trading with RSE unless you did a stupidly long (and partly annoying) post-game story and then teased you with happiness evolutions that wouldn't work until you got the National Dex post game. Then it decided the best thing to do was add the Sevii Islands which worked the exact OPPOSITE as their intent. It was kind of annoying.
At least HGSS and ORAS allowed you to get any Pokemon you want whenever you wanted and even increased the number of Pokemon in their dex to compensate for new evolutions!
At least HGSS and ORAS allowed you to get any Pokemon you want whenever you wanted and even increased the number of Pokemon in their dex to compensate for new evolutions!
HGSS kind of half-assed the new evolutions though; the move + Level up based evolutions were added to the regional dex since they would be difficult to avoid otherwise, but they pulled a FRLG with the other cross-gen evos, such as Togekiss & Gliscor, by locking away their necessary components till way late in Kanto post Nat-dex.
Also, all the newer baby mons (Azurill, Bonsly, etc.) were MIA, even though their evolution requirements fall more in line with the 5 cross-gen evos that made it in the Johto dex.
Still, it's miles better than FRLG absolutely locking everything non-Gen I out, even from trades.
Even worse than that was that the Moss Rock and Ice Rock were nowhere to be found in the game at all, and neither was an electromagnetic thingy place to evolve Nosepass and Magneton. Even though there were very obvious places in the postgame to put them.
Which, funnily enough, is similar to FRLG - you couldn't evolve Eevee into Espeon or Umbreon even in the postgame because there was no time mechanic for some reason. So you had to trade your Eevee to the original paired version or third version if you wanted to evolve it into those, which is also true for HGSS with Glaceon, Leafeon, Probopass and Magnezone.
Thankfully ORAS completely done away with all this nonsense.
Don't know if this been said, but Pokemon Refresh is too OP. Particularly in two ways:
Status Curing: Now, I actually would like the idea, but the way they did this made curing items pretty much useless. Okay, maybe during battle the curing items might have a use (if you haven't maxed out your Pokemon's affection), but outside of battle? Just use the medicine scrub which is magically filled with curing liquid. Had they at least required you to apply a curing item to the scrub that would have been fine, it would have kept the item relevant (at least until your Pokemon reach max affection) and still increases your Pokemon's affection.
Rainbow Beans: I have no problem with the benefits you get from max affection; you spent time petting and feeding your Pokemon so you earned those holding on with 1 HP, dodging, curing themselves, and crits. Or you just used a Rainbow Bean or two. And it's not like Rainbow Beans are rare, as soon as you get access to the Poke Pelago you'll probably get a few each time you collect Beans (especially if you upgrade bean island all the way which you should). Yes, its handy for evolving Eevee to Sylveon, but was that really worth mitigating Pokemon Refresh and overall gameplay experience/difficulty?
Status Curing: Now, I actually would like the idea, but the way they did this made curing items pretty much useless. Okay, maybe during battle the curing items might have a use (if you haven't maxed out your Pokemon's affection), but outside of battle? Just use the medicine scrub which is magically filled with curing liquid. Had they at least required you to apply a curing item to the scrub that would have been fine, it would have kept the item relevant (at least until your Pokemon reach max affection) and still increases your Pokemon's affection.
Rainbow Beans: I have no problem with the benefits you get from max affection; you spent time petting and feeding your Pokemon so you earned those holding on with 1 HP, dodging, curing themselves, and crits. Or you just used a Rainbow Bean or two. And it's not like Rainbow Beans are rare, as soon as you get access to the Poke Pelago you'll probably get a few each time you collect Beans (especially if you upgrade bean island all the way which you should). Yes, its handy for evolving Eevee to Sylveon, but was that really worth mitigating Pokemon Refresh and overall gameplay experience/difficulty?
Also the part where a good bit of the content in the Sevii Islands was based around either events (which either only happened in Japan or never happened at all, I forget which) or a gimmicky peripheral that was discontinued almost immediately outside Japan.