I'm expecting Feraligatr and possibly Swampert to pick it up next week too. Mostly Feraligatr, since it hasn't had a proper moveset in the Switch era yet, and Chip Away no longer exists meaning it's got an open move slot at level 37. BDSP put Low Kick there, but SV has ignored BDSP's moveset adjustments entirely and it wasn’t even a new move, Low Kick's an egg move for the Totodile line.
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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
- Start date
Doesn't really make too much of a difference for Feraligatr imo, its running sflo liquidation anyways
Unpopular opinion: Feraligatr should get Jet Punch.
It also doesn't make a difference to more than half the Pokémon that learn it, it doesn't mean they won't use it to plug that hole. What else are they gonna put there?
As a fellow Feraligatr fan I also think it would be pretty neat if it gained access to Wave Crash and/or Jet Punch, even if Jet Punch feels more like a better fit for something like Swampert by comparison.
Speaking of starter Pokémon and signature moves, I also think Meowscarada should learn Wicked Blow. It sounds crazy at first, but then you remember Flower Trick is pretty much just Grass-Type Wicked Blow anyways so it just kind of works as possible dual STAB.
Speaking of starter Pokémon and signature moves, I also think Meowscarada should learn Wicked Blow. It sounds crazy at first, but then you remember Flower Trick is pretty much just Grass-Type Wicked Blow anyways so it just kind of works as possible dual STAB.
But if we give Wicked Blow to another Pokémon, wouldn't it make sense for Surging Strikes to also end up on a Starter Pokémon's movelist, e.g. Feraligatr?
You can't have one move getting wider distribution and not its counterpart.
Ho-Oh's Sacred Fire is a weird exception, so GF, please give Lugia's Aeroblast to one of the Legendary Birds for the sake of parity.
I’d personally give Aeroblast for Articuno, since it would help it’s less than impressive Special Attack compared to Zapdos and Moltres.
Other than that, I would be against having Legendaries’ moves distributed for regular ‘mons, as it’ll get rid of one of the reasons why Legendary Pokémon are unique and legendary.
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Give meganium a sig ability that weakens All supereffective bY 2
why???
I dunno, game balance I guess.
Meganium is meant to be a bulky support Pokémon with okay offenses, and such an Ability would increase its ability to take hits and set up things such as Light Screen.
Well yes but that makes it broken at least make it like solid rock and take 3/4 damageI dunno, game balance I guess.
orrrr do neither and leave it as is cause we don't need every fucking pokemon to be the next Calyrex.
Wdym by next Calyrex I assume I mean calyrex rider forms since normal calyrex sucks, but giving solid rock or some variant of it to meganium doesn’t make it broken like is that period broken? Hell no. Just making supereffective moves deal slightly less damage doesn’t change it too much just a minor buff overall
What'd make it broken is grassy surge.or some random shit that supports allies bY reducing damage took
Uh no it would just be rillaboom but worse lol
leaf guard would be perfectly suitable for what meganium is supposed to do if it didn't. suck? like it could AT LEAST remove existing status conditions and also block the volatile ones - a sun team having an untauntable/unencorable utility mon would be a better niche than meganium's current nothing
My point was that there's no reason to buff Meganium.
Some mons are doomed to suck. We can't have only good mons.
As much as I'm a grass-starter-master-race myself, we don't need 20 "generic grass type defensive mon". Water types already have like 20 water types that are just "walls" with different stats and all do exactly same thing (or used to): spam scald until they burned something (guess why they removed it?).
If you want to play a game where every piece is the same, go play checkers. There is a reason we ban or at very least condemn wishlisting on this board: it's cause everyone wants to buff their favourites for no apparent reason of "they shouldn't suck".
Except the Chikorita line are starters, and they are not supposed to suck. Leaving it doomed to suck for eternity feels so wrong and heartbreaking to someone who loved the Chikorita line at that.
They would need something special to make them stand out from Venusaur, their predecessor.
Some mons will still be better than others but no Pokémon should absolutely sucks in-game.
Pardon me but where exactly was stated that "starters arent meant to suck"? Was there a piece of paper signed by GameFreaks stating this?
The Chikorita line is fine in the gen it's new, and there's plenty of other starters that "suck". Remind me exactly when Emboar, Typhlosion, Delphox, Samurott, Decidueye, Sceptile (mega aside and tbfh even the mega), Torterra, etc etc, were the peak of competitive gameplay? And when exactly did they have "problems" in game to make the game too hard if you picked them?
Plus many of the starters that do have competitive viability are completely unviable without their HA, which is also not available through regular gameplay.
The only thing starters have in common is that they are meant to attract new players design wise. Gameplay wise, who cares, everyone and their mom's starter will be so overleveled that they could have magikarp tier stats and still roll over the games.
I stg people on this forum are too obsessed with "make every pokemon good".
No, we don't need that. The games need shitmons as much as calyrex-shadow.
As I said, if you guys want a game where every piece is the game, play checkers, not pokemon.
You rather have stuff like Calyrex-Shadow not be at the very least moderately nerfed over “make every Pokémon Good”? No, I won’t accept that. You also focused mostly on competitive, but I specifically said in-game.
The power creep is bad enough as-is and the way you reply me is very rude. Telling people to go play checkers isn’t going to help your case, especially since checkers is a fundamentally different game that aged better than Pokémon.
I am being very rude on the subject on purpose. It's tiring to read a constant flux of "GF should buff this" and "GF should nerf that".
It's a game with over 1000 Pokemon without even accounting for forms. A scale of "bad" and "good" will always happen. Some will always have to be at the bottom, some will always be at the top. You nerf Calyrex? Zacian takes its place. You nerf Zacian? Now Xerneas takes its place.
Works other way around too, remember when they buffed Pelipper and suddently made Politoed a joke of a pokemon? When they gave Drought to Torkoal and Ninetales has never seen the light of day again?
There must always be a lich king. Asking for Buffing / Nerfing at this point is just saying "I think this pokemon should be better for literally no reason".
There's no "this deserves better" in a videogame. As I said, this aint checkers. There's absolutely no need for "every pokemon to be viable", in fact, if every pokemon was good or viable, it'd be just a very boring rock paper scissor lizard spork scenario.
I don't think you are meant to have a degree in game design to understand this concept.
So let's not make it better. Let's make it more interesting. The kind of interesting that, even if it remains trash in conventional formats, might give it something to work with in unconventional ones. After all, the format I follow most ranks Shuckle and Garganacl on equal footing.
Meganium seems to be going for a Grass-type that focuses more on supporting allies than messing with the opponent, originally manifesting through screens. I could see trying to go for a doubles support role where its typing would be distinct from the usual Psychic or Fairy. Pollen Puff seems like an easy move to add in service to that goal, and it could get Follow Me as a 'friendlier' version of Rage Powder to help it keep pace with other Grass-types.
Meganium seems to be going for a Grass-type that focuses more on supporting allies than messing with the opponent, originally manifesting through screens. I could see trying to go for a doubles support role where its typing would be distinct from the usual Psychic or Fairy. Pollen Puff seems like an easy move to add in service to that goal, and it could get Follow Me as a 'friendlier' version of Rage Powder to help it keep pace with other Grass-types.
Bad comparison because most of the competitively minded people hate how min-maxed Calyrex-Shadow is and would argure the game does NOT need it, which by this comparison means Shitmons are also unnecessary.
my bigger problem with Meganium is not that it’s bad as that it legitimately feels like it doesn’t do anything. With most shitmons I can identify a role and how their stuff tries to achieve that, poorly or not. Meganium has shit all to work with as a defensive/supportive Pokemon, which seems like what it is meant to do move wise.
I am quite sure you are well aware of why I'm making exagerated examples pointing at the most broken pokemon designed in competitive history on both sides of the spectrum (both VGC and smogon). Because apparently making a normal understandable comparison doesn't hit the mark.
(Ironic, since regular Calyrex is arguably worse than Meganium at what it sets to do, as funny as it is)
Meganium had (hopefully still has) your standard "defensive grass type" stuff. Leech Seed, Ingrain, screens (both of them, which is rarer than you'd think, as I've learned while doing raids Reflect is way rarer than Light Screen), and the now removed Aromatherapy which tbh is a big loss as it was one of the selling point of grass support mons. Even gets Grassy Terrain and Heal Pulse, and very likely will get Pollen Puff (at least, I'd assume so, since every other grass type has it in gen 9).
We do not know if it will gain access to any other of the new gen 8-9 moves, I would assume things like Strenght Sap or Trailblaze are potentially on the table as well.
It does what it sets to do: set screens and/or leech seed to stay alive. Gets to heal its teammates with Heal Pulse or potentially Pollen Puff if in doubles environment.
I fail to see how it fails at doing what it is meant to. Surely it's no Ferrothorn or Amoongus, but I struggle to see why it needs to be Ferrothorn or Amoongus.
That is my entire point. We all know Meganium is "just another forgettable grass type that nobody would even remind if it wasnt a starter". And my point is "so what?". Why does every "shitmon" need to be buffed?
As I pointed above, buffing a shitmon may make it better, but all it does is make it take someone else's place.
You want to make it Grass/Fairy? Well then you're murdering Shiinotic's niche. Want to give it a speed buff ability? May end up stomping any of the other Clorophyl users due to better BST and typing. Regenerator? Well then Eeldegoss is probably gone. Grassy Surge? Ah so it's going to take over any viability from Twackey in the lower tiers (while still being useless compared to Rillaboom). Quiver Dance? I guess you really want Lilligant in ZU.
No matter what you give it, it'll just take someone else place.
Hence once more... what's the point? On what basis do we decide that "Meganium" deserves to be better whereas "Lilligant" does not?
And if every pokemon deserves the same viability, then we're back at the start, where we may as well go play checkers where every pawn is the same.
Ok let's see
Sceptile has some use for unburden sweeper - at least useful
Decidueye has a decent typing (better than meganium) with flexibility that actually gives it a presence
Samurott has some offensive mixed potential, sticking with av offensive seems fun
Delphox has the nasty plot
Typhlosion has eruption
emboar has reckless flare blitz and wild charge alongside close combat
torterra - true, mid - ill come back to this later tho
look these explanations are a bit mid
gen 7 tiering lets go
meganium - zu
emboar - nubl
sceptile - nu
samurott - nu
decidueye - nu
delphox - nu
torterra - zu
typhlosion - nu
seeing a pattern? all are nu except emboar (NUBL) and meganium/torterra (zu), which brings us to an interesting point - torterra also used to suck - but then GF buffed it with shell smash this gen and now its decent. unless you think that was a wrong decision, what's wrong with buffing meganium
also, for typhlosion, samurott, and decidueye, they gave them hisuian forms - this is sort of cheating but its sort of a buff - especially for samurott - but even without this point my point still stands - meganium sort of stands out as an ass mon
starters dont have to be the peak of competitive play, but meganium is just ASS
fixing meganium just like how they fixed torterra isnt an issue lmfao
shiinotic's niche? no, we don't get spore
speed buff ability? i assume u mean speed boost - and meganium doesn't get chlorophyll i dont get how this replaces the role of chlorophyll issues but that isn't what we're advocating for anyways
eldegoss? lmfao meganium gets no hazard removal and no sleep powder the only sleep move it gets is fucking grass whistle
grassy surge? ehhh no. a) it doesn't get grassy glide (yet) but even if it did b) ur not replacing thwackey u can go in a tier above it u know - it's like how magneton can be budget magnezone in lower tiers and electrode can be budget regieleki in zu. also thwackey has more attack and utilize eviolite which also gives it bulk
quiver dance? a) this doesnt make sense lol how does meganium dance b) again, no sleep move like lilligant - no sleep powder abuse and c) no own tempo so petal dance will confuse urself unlike lilligant
we don't need to make meganium some behemoth who is broken, just buffing it doesn't break the game. it isn't a question of whether or not we should buff pokemon - especially when the examples of pokemon meganium is replacing don't even stand up
look, again,
look to torterra
"You nerf Calyrex? Zacian takes its place. You nerf Zacian? Now Xerneas takes its place."
while this is true, this takes the overal power level down. let me give you a scenario
We have A at power level 100, B at 75, C at 60, D at 50. A gets nerfed to 50 power. Now B is the best. Now B gets nerfed to 50 power. So now, we have C at 60, A at 50, B at 50, and D at 50. Oh no, C is the best mon in the game what will we do? Well, now A, B, and D are very close behind in power level. So it's more balanced. It's not like the concept of nerfs is new. GF did that exact thing to Zacian coming into gen 9! so, I don't know why this concept is really that difficult to grasp.
"Works other way around too, remember when they buffed Pelipper and suddently made Politoed a joke of a pokemon? When they gave Drought to Torkoal and Ninetales has never seen the light of day again?"
Oh no, politoed isnt viable in ou anymore. Good thing we have lower tiers! same to ninetales, they can just go to lower tiers. also: they are not carbon copies of each other. ninetales has a niche over torkoal on nasty plot, higher spatk (more offensive pressure) + more speed, so you can go defensive with torkoal or offensive with ninetales. then, between politoed and pelipper, u also have a choice. politoed has the niche of being way bulkier on the special side, being faster, and not being stealth rock weak. its not a complete replacement - it's fine
"I don't think you are meant to have a degree in game design to understand this concept."
this piece of text, frankly, baffles of me
do you think GF doesn't have a degree in game design (if so, well, I don't know what to say to you)? then why did they buff torterra with shell smash? why did they replace politoed with pelipper and ninetales with torkoal?
if you think this is bad, let me ask you something: who are you to judge how GF designs their games? because as far as I'm concerned, they are willing to nerf and they are willing to buff. so why shouldn't we buff meganium?
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