Unpopular opinions

[ant4456]

Ant, no disrespect, but sometimes we can kinda get too focused on the broader side of games like historical value, and even look at it as an artform.

Because games are an artform with historical value and cultural significance. Games are art, and they matter as art.

Your next sentences here are no different than if you were someone who only watched Marvel movies to activate some neurons and if you went and said "Why golly, you're almost talking about movies like they're an artform! And their history!"

They're primarily entertainment though. If I boot up a game and I find it boring, I'm going to say something ranging from "Yeah, that ain't for me" to "This is fucking trash, are you kidding me?"

You can do this with books and movies, in fact a lot of people look at a lot of artforms shallowly. It doesn't make them not art or not matter as art. This doesn't say anything about the medium as a whole, this is you saying "I don't care".

 

[Blue glass]

If games are art then a boring gameplay should be taken in account when analyzing them and criticized accordingly just like when people criticize art direction, plot etc.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

If games are art then a boring gameplay should be taken in account when analyzing them and criticized accordingly just like when people criticize art direction, plot etc.

...yeah?

whether or not gameplay is factored into game criticism was never in question

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

this is you saying "I don't care".

Yeah, I know, I said it like, three times.

You wrote a full-fledged article about game reviews with all that Xenoblade mumbo jumbo and the big takeaway about the game itself was "That game was a milestone for the Wii because JRPGs in that era were kind of awful, but it aged like milk, and got dunked on by its sequels, this is why the definite edition got lower scores"

I can understand the nuance of its historical impact, (Even though I don't agree, Arc Rise Fantasia was the best Wii JRPG) but I sure as hell don't wanna play it after what you said about it!

Maybe it's just me, but I also see this point of view in other media talks every once in a while with certain movies that are such elevated forms of art, and when you watch them, it's a meandering slog of pretentious slop.

Even as someone who says that games can have the most potential for storytelling out of any media format because of how immersive they can be, I'm still going to value gameplay first. Because it's a game.

 

[ant4456]

Yeah, I know, I said it like, three times.

Okay

You wrote a full-fledged article about game reviews with all that Xenoblade mumbo jumbo and the big takeaway about the game itself was "That game was a milestone for the Wii because JRPGs in that era were kind of awful, but it aged like milk, and got dunked on by its sequels, this is why the definite edition got lower scores"

I didn't say Xenoblade Chronicles aged like milk, I said that the context of the releases changed which meant that the game has a different reception to different people at different points in time, when evaluated in the context of said release.

I also didn't say its sequels "dunked on" it, I said that they adapted with modern design trends as well. I also didn't say the sequels actually had any relevance to the remake getting a lesser score, that was due to people reviewing it as a remake product (which inherently gets scrutiny, full price for a remake) and about what it did for that time difference.

I can understand the nuance of its historical impact, (Even though I don't agree, Arc Rise Fantasia was the best Wii JRPG) but I sure as hell don't wanna play it after what you said about it!

Okay

Maybe it's just me, but I also see this point of view in other media talks every once in a while with certain movies that are such elevated forms of art, and when you watch them, it's a meandering slog of pretentious slop.

You sound like genuinely the most anti-art person I've seen on this website when you say things like this lol

Even as someone who says that games can have the most potential for storytelling out of any media format because of how immersive they can be, I'm still going to value gameplay first. Because it's a game.

Gameplay is a part of the artform lmao

 

[Blue glass]

...yeah?

whether or not gameplay is factored into game criticism was never in question

I think it's unfair to call people shallow because they don't want to play a game that bores them. Games are art but most of them are slop, just like movies and books for that matter, if someone wants to write a deep analysis of the gender politics of Superman 64 more power to them but that game is still trash.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

I think it's unfair to call people shallow because they don't want to play a game that bores them. Games are art but most of them are slop, just like movies and books for that matter, if someone wants to write a deep analysis of the gender politics of Superman 64 more power to them but that game is still trash.

Again, yeah?

You (and Volt, frankly) seem to be missing the point of this discussion. Volt dismissed IGN as worthless (a common opinion), Ant went into great detail as to why this opinion is flawed, and Volt said "I ain't reading that shit, I only care if a game is fun" which itself really isn't a rebuttal to what Ant said at all. It's just a statement about not wanting to read stuff followed by a non-sequitur.

 

[Cobalt Empoleon]

I think it's unfair to call people shallow because they don't want to play a game that bores them. Games are art but most of them are slop, just like movies and books for that matter, if someone wants to write a deep analysis of the gender politics of Superman 64 more power to them but that game is still trash.

"I think that's a shallow approach to media" =/= "you are shallow"

Y'all can play the game and form your own opinions. That's what's important. Have your own experiences.

I imagine you think this is conciliatory but it mostly comes across as patronising lol. Like, yes, we all do that already. Video game reviews didn't destroy our ability to think for ourselves.

 

[Bakugames]

if you only care about gameplay thats fine, but its short sighted to act like thats all games are instead of a preference. Reviews, analysis etc may not be for you but that doesnt make them worthless. I personally think writing out critiques and analysis of games is just as engaging as playing them. its fun innit

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

I didn't say Xenoblade Chronicles aged like milk, I said that the context of the releases changed which meant that the game has a different reception to different people at different points in time, when evaluated in the context of said release.

So you're saying it aged like milk?

Gameplay is a part of the artform lmao

Yes, I'm just saying it's higher on the priority scale of what would make *me* play a game.

You sound like genuinely the most anti-art person I've seen on this website when you say things like this lol

Can't really argue with that, but I'm not that much of an art hater

Again, yeah?

You (and Volt, frankly) seem to be missing the point of this discussion. Volt dismissed IGN as worthless (a common opinion), Ant went into great detail as to why this opinion is flawed, and Volt said "I ain't reading that shit, I only care if a game is fun" which itself really isn't a rebuttal to what Ant said at all. It's just a statement about not wanting to read stuff followed by a non-sequitur.

Maybe I didn't express myself clearly. (Many such cases )

I did read that entire post. Twice.

However, in my opinion, reviews aren't trustworthy, and even if they were, only an individual can accurately assess whether they'll like a game or not. (Regardless of reasons)

So, instead of reading/watching one, I'd rather look for footage or a demo and form my own opinion of it. Untainted, as it should be, after all, I'll be the one playing it.

It's not that I didn't read what Ant said, I just don't agree with it.

I imagine you think this is conciliatory but it mostly comes across as patronising lol. Like, yes, we all do that already. Video game reviews didn't destroy our ability to think for ourselves.

Yeah, not my intention at all. My bad.


To be fair, I don't even know how we ended up on this topic anymore.

 

[Blue glass]

if you only care about gameplay thats fine, but its short sighted to act like thats all games are instead of a preference. Reviews, analysis etc may not be for you but that doesnt make them worthless. I personally think writing out critiques and analysis of games is just as engaging as playing them. its fun innit

To me a game is made to be played, if it fails on that its other components would have to be really good to compensate. I agree critiques and analysis are fun, Superman 64 has a really interesting development story but it failed as a game because while I find its history fascinating I would never play it.

 

[Basedwell]

I saw the moist critical YouTube on the scalper fight at the Pokemon card vending machine. I cannot stand him, for the same reason watching five minutes of the video pissed me off. Positing yourself as being superior than the Lowest Common Denominator is beyond Redditcore. It’s embarrassing.

And in this case, per usual, he misses the point of the incident. What trading card games do is create artificial scarcity to make children functionally gamble to get cool things. In an age where reselling is the easiest it’s ever been, collecting is the most popular it’s ever been, and adults feel comfortable still following their childhood interests, there’s going to be a lot of money in Pokemon cards and people are gonna wanna be middle men and get a few dollars for themselves.

Sure, it’s embarrassing and horrifying to fight over them, but the Pokemon company loves that their products instantly sell out; their business model is working exactly as intended. But Pokemon is for the children. As long as they can make increasing money 20 years down the road they won’t care, and given half their recent games are universally considered to be shit I don’t think they’re worried about it.

BTW, the difference between Champions and TCG Mobile Game is that people don’t like nerds who play TCG irl, and don’t like the culture around it or the initial investment. They were actually tapping into a large demographic.

 

[Bakugames]

To me a game is made to be played, if it fails on that its other components would have to be really good to compensate. I agree critiques and analysis are fun, Superman 64 has a really interesting development story but it failed as a game because while I find its history fascinating I would never play it.

i see it this way: movies are meant to be watched, but that doesnt mean all movies need have a goal of making the audience feel good. some of them are about making you sad, miserable, angry and annoyed, and those movies are not failing to be movies by doing so. that doesnt mean bad movies dont exist, but rather that the spectrum of experience is more diverse. same with games, sometimes making you annoyed or have a horrible time is the point. that isnt to say slop dogshit games dont exist, but you get the gist

 

[smokeyinferno]

games-as-art discourse in the unpopular opinions thread...

I think fixating on "gameplay" above all else is kind of myopic. not because I think Deep Story or Hyper-Realistic Art Style are more important, but because the broadest most defining characteristic of games as a medium is that they are pieces of software you can fiddle with. which, mind you, /can/ manifest thru stomping on goombas, etc... but even basic things like, idk, sifting through menus or walking around aimlessly or adjusting the rate of automatic text scroll or even running an installer wizard are equally important features of the medium 2 me

 

[leafsaber47]

I don't know how unpopular this is but:

Sword/Shield's version-exclusive Gym Leaders were a pretty bad idea in hindsight. Just because I played Sword instead of Shield... bam, no Melony for me. I get her much less popular son Gordie instead.

 

[Heatranator]

I don't know how unpopular this is but:

Sword/Shield's version-exclusive Gym Leaders were a pretty bad idea in hindsight. Just because I played Sword instead of Shield... bam, no Melony for me. I get her much less popular son Gordie instead.

I won't accept any Gordie slander, my man is the GOAT

 

[vishy fishy]

I saw the moist critical YouTube on the scalper fight at the Pokemon card vending machine. I cannot stand him, for the same reason watching five minutes of the video pissed me off. Positing yourself as being superior than the Lowest Common Denominator is beyond Redditcore. It’s embarrassing.

And in this case, per usual, he misses the point of the incident. What trading card games do is create artificial scarcity to make children functionally gamble to get cool things. In an age where reselling is the easiest it’s ever been, collecting is the most popular it’s ever been, and adults feel comfortable still following their childhood interests, there’s going to be a lot of money in Pokemon cards and people are gonna wanna be middle men and get a few dollars for themselves.

Sure, it’s embarrassing and horrifying to fight over them, but the Pokemon company loves that their products instantly sell out; their business model is working exactly as intended. But Pokemon is for the children. As long as they can make increasing money 20 years down the road they won’t care, and given half their recent games are universally considered to be shit I don’t think they’re worried about it.

BTW, the difference between Champions and TCG Mobile Game is that people don’t like nerds who play TCG irl, and don’t like the culture around it or the initial investment. They were actually tapping into a large demographic.

I think they actually made Arceus not just for the money and that’s why it was good

I know this isn’t the point of what it saying but I didn’t see the context

Sw/sh was the best game, good graphics and cool mons with fun lore and arctovish

 

[Sificon]

Here comes my unpopular take that I know I will probably get a lot of hate for.

I absolutely HATE Milotic. I find it the way it looks more disturbing than majestic due to 3 different reasons

1) I think water snakes are one of the most terrifying creatures on this planet. You are absolute helpless if you're swimming in the water and a water snake approaches you
2) It has completely pointless antennas. Why would something that lives under water have antennas like Milotic has, there is no point in them and they're just weird
3) The most weird thing about Milotic. It's long "scarf-hair" thingy is actually it's eyebrows. I do think it's very disturbing and takes everything away about being "beautiful" knowing that those things are it's eyebrows. Why is it bald but then also has 2 meter long eyebrows? It will never make sense to me and I absolutely despise it.



stupid ugly bald water eyebrow fish snake

 

[Sonikku A]

Here comes my unpopular take that I know I will probably get a lot of hate for.

I absolutely HATE Milotic. I find it the way it looks more disturbing than majestic due to 3 different reasons

1) I think water snakes are one of the most terrifying creatures on this planet. You are absolute helpless if you're swimming in the water and a water snake approaches you
2) It has completely pointless antennas. Why would something that lives under water have antennas like Milotic has, there is no point in them and they're just weird
3) The most weird thing about Milotic. It's long "scarf-hair" thingy is actually it's eyebrows. I do think it's very disturbing and takes everything away about being "beautiful" knowing that those things are it's eyebrows. Why is it bald but then also has 2 meter long eyebrows? It will never make sense to me and I absolutely despise it.



stupid ugly bald water eyebrow fish snake

Gen 3 dev we had a more traditional sea serpent design for it that was changed (to where palette is incompatible)

Pick your poison

 

[Bog Monster]

Here comes my unpopular take that I know I will probably get a lot of hate for.

I absolutely HATE Milotic. I find it the way it looks more disturbing than majestic due to 3 different reasons

1) I think water snakes are one of the most terrifying creatures on this planet. You are absolute helpless if you're swimming in the water and a water snake approaches you
2) It has completely pointless antennas. Why would something that lives under water have antennas like Milotic has, there is no point in them and they're just weird
3) The most weird thing about Milotic. It's long "scarf-hair" thingy is actually it's eyebrows. I do think it's very disturbing and takes everything away about being "beautiful" knowing that those things are it's eyebrows. Why is it bald but then also has 2 meter long eyebrows? It will never make sense to me and I absolutely despise it.



stupid ugly bald water eyebrow fish snake

If it makes you feel better, here's the animal it's based on. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_oarfish

 

[DreamPrince]

View attachment 716842
I'm curious now, what recipe book did this come from?

(for context, I'm not saying it's a weak set, in fact it did its job well by stopping cold plenty of people's runs, but I dunno, playing with Double Team feels...dirty)

On the topic of Evasion, is it really that surprising that Pokemon has it? I know multiplayer dislike evasion strats, but it’s common tactic in RPGs to buff evasion for both the player and enemy to avoid attacks to buy time to dish out damage. Fire Emblem, Persona, and DragonQuest feature evasion buffing skills as part of the RPG and it’s essential for success to get through levels.

 

[Basedwell]

On the topic of Evasion, is it really that surprising that Pokemon has it? I know multiplayer dislike evasion strats, but it’s common tactic in RPGs to buff evasion for both the player and enemy to avoid attacks to buy time to dish out damage. Fire Emblem, Persona, and DragonQuest feature evasion buffing skills as part of the RPG and it’s essential for success to get through levels.

The game literally gives you tools to deal with them, it’s not their fault if you choose not to use them. It’s like complaining about roaming Pokemon when you won’t use Mean Look and Taunt.

I think they actually made Arceus not just for the money and that’s why it was good

I know this isn’t the point of what it saying but I didn’t see the context

Sw/sh was the best game, good graphics and cool mons with fun lore and arctovish

With video games it’s harder to tell because it’s not just one person’s creative vision like a book, song, or even movie is seen as (yes obviously it’s more complicated don’t be pedantic), which is also going to affect how it is reviewed compared to other media, and what people write about it.

But more importantly I would say the older games are made with love because there is a ton of little detail and secrets in the mechanics. You are rewarded for exploring the world.

This is being progressively taken out of games, and replaced with dumbed down mechanics (ie now abilities are useless in terms of interacting with the overworld) and are replaced with nothing or convoluted tasks (find 100 red orbs or make Caterpie use String Shot 50 times at night to level it up into its new evolution Butterfullprice)

I played Arceus for 40 hours and never wanna see the game again. It innovates 3-4 things, and you end up doing the same thing over and over. Catch Pokemon, collect resources, and fetch Pokemon for ppl or other such trivial tasks. The writing and characters are poor, they’ve gotten worse since the original games, and there’s nothing to think about or strategize. No real reward or reason to explore beyond a few rare Pokemon locations. The world is empty and you are limited in how you interact with it.

It’s Duolingo the Pokemon game. Duolingo isn’t for learning languages it’s to pat yourself on the back for being smart enough to wipe your own ass.

 

[Mova]

pokemon legends arceus took a lot from telefang, and i'm tired of pretending it's just a funny coincidence

first you have brilliant diamond
hisui is a japanese word for "arcane" and "jade"
people in galar are obsessed with curry, just like kakuza party president nerikara. swsh was released in the same generation as bdsp
strong and agile styles sound eerily similar to power and speed, as does speed affecting turn frequency

yup, it's diamond and jade become official. how hilarious in hindsight!

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

The game literally gives you tools to deal with them, it’s not their fault if you choose not to use them. It’s like complaining about roaming Pokemon when you won’t use Mean Look and Taunt.

That's a pretty good way to say, "I've never played the Battle Factory", without outright saying it.

On the topic of Evasion, is it really that surprising that Pokemon has it? I know multiplayer dislike evasion strats, but it’s common tactic in RPGs to buff evasion for both the player and enemy to avoid attacks to buy time to dish out damage. Fire Emblem, Persona, and DragonQuest feature evasion buffing skills as part of the RPG and it’s essential for success to get through levels.

Let's ignore that Fire Emblem dodgetanks are generally kinda busted for a minute because I agree with you.

But obviously, it's extremely unsatisfying for players to have to click the same move over and over and hope it hits. (Hi, Focus Blast!)
It's also extremely stupid for people to try and click Double Team repeatedly, hoping they don't get bonked before achieving Ultra Instinct.

With that said, I have no issue with passive evasion buffs like Sand/Snow Veil and Brightpowder. Especially Brightpowder, as you do sacrifice your item slot to turn Focus Blast into special Dynamicpunch.

The whole point of picking Fire Blast/Hydro Pump over Flamethrower/Surf is trading power that will turn 2~3HKOs into 1~2HKOs for a chance of watching your attacks hit nothing but air, so turning that 15~20% chance into 35~40% is an interesting counterplay to that idea. Not one I'd use, but definitely one I like to see the computer use.

Aggressive evasion strategies are interesting, passive ones aren't. Which ironically, is what makes Fire Emblem dodgetanks busted and fun to use.

 

[Karxrida]

The game literally gives you tools to deal with them, it’s not their fault if you choose not to use them. It’s like complaining about roaming Pokemon when you won’t use Mean Look and Taunt.

This ignores so many things that make trying to counter evasion a pain.

• There aren't too many never-miss moves.
• They're mostly weak.
• They do not cover every type in the game.
• The only ones with good distribution are Swift, Shock Wave, Aerial Ace, and Smart Strike because they're TMs/TRs. Two of those cannot hit specific types due to immunities and Smart Strike is on a less-than-stellar offensive type.
• The best never-miss move, Aura Sphere, has super limited distribution despite being a TR in Gen 9 (mostly on Legendaries and Mythicals) and cannot hit Ghosts.
• The limited moveslot system makes it super hard to justify using many of these moves unless you lack better options, especially if you're doing a casual story run of an older gen game where TMs were super limited. Or you're playing Gen 2 and you don't have easy access to any never-miss moves anyway because no TMs for one.
• Also in the context of a casual story run, evasion abuse is rare enough that you probably won't have a counter on you. Unless you're doing a boss like Emerald Juan where having Shock Wave on your Calm Mind Gardevoir is probably a good idea.
• Almost every Pokémon in the franchise can learn Double Team. Not every Pokémon has access to a never-miss move.