Unpopular opinions

Volt-Ikazuchi said:
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Happy? Ain't no way bruh :totodiLUL:


*Checks thread title*

I'mma keep it a stack with you, the PWT was MID. :mehowth:

Plain 3v3 is just too short for me. I like the concept, but the execution needed some spice. As it stands, it's a telegraphed Battle Tower with actual characters. I'd like to see them interact more, maybe use an improved version of the Battle Dome tournament style so we see the leaders duking it out too.
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No like I was surprised at my own reaction too when I actually thought about it lol

The only aspects of the Frontier I enjoyed were the Factory & Dome. I didn't even really get into the Platinum frontier.

Pyramid and Pike had potential, but it was hax central it just put me off.

Arena and Tower were a bit boring and I despised the Palace. There's good concepts there, but IMO the highlights were rentals and tournament style battling. If they brought these elements back in different, repeatable ways and combine it with historic characters, I'd be down.

3v3 (I only played Doubles anyway) never really bothered me, but I do agree, some spice would've been nice, I guess I just have a hugeeee soft spot for Black and White 2

There's so much potential in end-game facilities with what they've done so far, it would add to their playerbase satisfaction (and they could merch the death out of it)
 
Perriechu said:
Pyramid and Pike had potential, but it was hax central it just put me off.
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if anything, I think the Pyramid is tuned to be too easy. It's likely the easiest facility to get an indefinite streak. The roster of wild Pokemon on each sequence is a known quantity and pretty small, which makes them easy to gameplan around specifically, and Softboiled is so busted that a cleric Blissey trivializes most of it.

A few of the streaks in the records thread only ended due to power loss / save file corruption and the player not wanting to dump in the time to clear another 1000+ floors.
 
Factory is the easiest one to call straight up good, but even it, at least in Gen4, is plagued by totally unintuitive swap mechanics and dreadful cutscene / loading / waiting times. Which is unfortunate

And that's with me taking a generous interpretation that the evasion stall bs is just part of its unique charm
 
Perriechu said:
The only aspects of the Frontier I enjoyed were the Factory & Dome.
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Dawn Man of Culture.jpg


Let me paint you a picture then.

Battle Dome, with Leaders and other major characters (PWT cut the Elite 4, I'm sick), Take 6, Pick 3 in Singles, Take 6, Pick 4 in Doubles like VGC. You can see the brackets just like the Dome, and you can also click on a past match to watch a replay.

That's the vision. This is what the PWT should've been.
 
Adeleine said:
i wish the pwt teams felt like the gym leader's teams, and not random mons of the type cobbled together

without that i can't really feel invested in it
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That got me thinking, so I decided to take a quick check.

Gonna use Falkner as an example.

So, basically, Falkner's HGSS rematch team is: Staraptor, Noctowl, Swellow, Honchkrow, Pelipper, and his ace is Pidgeot.
His Johto PWT team is: Pidgeot, Fearow, Dodrio, Honchkrow, Xatu, Noctowl.
His Expert PWT team is: Pidgeot, Crobat, Aerodactyl, Honchkrow, Xatu, and Swellow.

Falkner's character is all about taking pride in his father's old dusty BIRD pokémon. So that means he's probably not gonna break out other Flying-types like Jumpluff, which is fine tbh.

There's a catch though.

Falkner, a Gen 2 Flying-type leader who focuses on avian Pokémon... Doesn't have a Skarmory? Seriously?
 
Volt-Ikazuchi said:
That got me thinking, so I decided to take a quick check.

Gonna use Falkner as an example.

So, basically, Falkner's HGSS rematch team is: Staraptor, Noctowl, Swellow, Honchkrow, Pelipper, and his ace is Pidgeot.
His Johto PWT team is: Pidgeot, Fearow, Dodrio, Honchkrow, Xatu, Noctowl.
His Expert PWT team is: Pidgeot, Crobat, Aerodactyl, Honchkrow, Xatu, and Swellow.

Falkner's character is all about taking pride in his father's old dusty BIRD pokémon. So that means he's probably not gonna break out other Flying-types like Jumpluff, which is fine tbh.

There's a catch though.

Falkner, a Gen 2 Flying-type leader who focuses on avian Pokémon... Doesn't have a Skarmory? Seriously?
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I should note that I don't like his rematch team either (and various other hgss rematch teams too iirc)

It feels like random birds lumped together. Better than random Flying-types - I guess it's better than Expert PWT because it doesn't have, like a random Aerodactyl (??) - but I don't see a vision or direction behind the set birds chosen.

I'd expect a 6-mon Falkner team to have each mon be multiple of the following:

- Bird (He's the dedicated bird guy)
- Region of origin (Johto)
- Fitting His Particular Battling Feel ™ (unassuming, no-nonsense, Normal-type-ish Pokemon with fairly simple strategies)

(You'll notice I didn't include "Flying-type" on this list. While I'd obviously expect his team to be Flying-biased, my general Gym Leader philosophy is being pretty tolerant of measured, limited variation from the primary type, if there is a good enough justification.)

With this critera set, I'd expect his team to be like:

1. Pidgeot (ace)

2-3. Fearow, Noctowl as pretty hard to argue against

Rest. From among Dodrio, Porygon2, Swellow, Golduck, Xatu, Pelipper, Skarmory

Going through this, I'm actually pretty OK with his PWT Johto team, at least in terms of Pokemon. I think Honchkrow is too extra but like, it's the only mon that didn't make my list, and it's at least an evolution of a Johto bird. I could complain about the sets, I could indeed do that, but this is getting pretty long already.

One might look at this list and say "Hey Ado, these Pokemon you set up for him are generally not great, he's gonna be kind of easy." And I'd say... yeah, cool. He's a 1st gym leader. I have no issue with him being easier. He obviously shouldn't have level 12 Pidgeys out there, but him being on the weaker end of the power level is chill.
 
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I'm disappointed the GS and HGSS Johto Gym Leaders didn't have as many native Johto Pokemon as they could have, Noctowl could have worked as Falkner's Gym 1 ace, but Bugsy could've used Ledyba and Spinarak as his other non-ace Pokemon. At least Miltank is from Johto. Was it the point to focus more on the older Pokemon from Kanto at the time? Kalos and Alola also focused on older Pokemon as well.
 
Mova said:
I'm disappointed the GS and HGSS Johto Gym Leaders didn't have as many native Johto Pokemon as they could have, Noctowl could have worked as Falkner's Gym 1 ace, but Bugsy could've used Ledyba and Spinarak as his other non-ace Pokemon. At least Miltank is from Johto. Was it the point to focus more on the older Pokemon from Kanto at the time? Kalos and Alola also focused on older Pokemon as well.
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Whenever I play through a Pokemon game these days, I try to build my main team of 6 according to a few basic rules: no legendaries, no HM mules, diverse typing, and consisting entirely of Pokemon that were introduced in that generation.

I don't think I've ever held to that last rule when playing a Johto game. Partly because it didn't introduce very many new Pokemon compared to later generations, and partly because it doesn't even really focus on the new Pokemon to begin with. It's one of the reasons why I feel that Johto just doesn't do a very good job of establishing its own identity.
 
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Somewhat unhelpfully, what I keep thinking of for how I'd handle Falkner's team relies on post-gen 5 content. Being able to mega-evolve Pidgeot is self-explanatory, but he could also really use Talonflame (first early-route bird to be a serious threat in battle) and/or Kilowattrel (defensive answer to Electric on a bird body type). I guess we just need a new PWT in Champions?
 
i dont mind that the gsc teams are borked. they were created on the philosophy of being a direct sequel to gen 1 and an expansion pack to kanto. the philosophy of every region being its own thing with its own pokedex only really started after gen 3.

the problem is that hgss didnt fix shit. lets be real even the diehard hgss fans arent having nostalgia over bugsys kakuna and metapod, or chucks 2 pokemon team
 
So, decided to post Johto rosters reimagined by me. 2 main goals:
1. More Johto Mons.
2. More difficulty but without being excessive.

Falkner's team:
-Pidgey
-Natu
-Delibird (with Peck and Mud Slap, no Present, which would be a level-up move, but at like level 15)
Explanation: This guy doesnt use any Flying type Mon, he uses Birds. So, things like Zubat, Togetic or Skiploom wouldnt work. Noctowl is too bulky, so Delibird seems right. It makes easier to use Cyndaquil in GSC, since the TM is Mud Slap.

Bugsy's team:
-Pineco (with Spikes).
-Spinarak
-Shuckle (with Berry)
-Scyther (lead in HGSS)
Explanation: Basically, a showcase of Johto Bugs. Ledyba is so pathetically bad, I am leaving it out. Shuckle looks hard, but since it has no recovery and no offensive power, its more an annoyance than actual threat. Both Quilava and Bayleef beat it easily.

Whitney's team:
-Clefairy
-Nidorina
-Miltank
Explanation: 3 Mons only, since one is the dreaded Miltank. She used Nidorina in the anime, so it works here to prevent Machop from sweeping.

Morty's team:
-Haunter
-Misdreavus
-Noctowl
-Gengar
Explanation: Misdreavus is an unused ghost. Noctowl is a nocturnal bird that fits on ghost theme.

Chuck's team:
-Primeape
-Granbull
-Heracross
-Poliwrath
Explanation: 3 Fight Mons + 1 tough Mon that fits.

Jasmine's team:
-Magneton
-Sudowoodo
-Skarmory
-Steelix
Explanation: Jasmine used to be a Rock type leader, Sudowoodo is a remnant of that. It prevents Fire Mons from easily sweeping her team.

Pryce's team:
-Jynx
-Ninetales
-Sneasel
-Dewgong
-Piloswine
Explanation: Pryce is old and wise. At his high age, he should in fact own 6 Mons, but since he is not last leader, I am giving him only 5. Ninetales is not due to the Alola form, it just fits his theme of being old and wise.

Claire's team:
-Arbok
-Dragonair
-Dragonair
-Dragonair
-Dunsparce
-Kingdra
Explanation: Strongest Gym leader has a full team, even though half of it are Dragonairs. Dunsparce is awesome and draconic enough, so is Arbok.

Rival's team:
-Sneasel
-Ampharos
-Golbat (Crobat in Kanto)
-Alakazam
-Porygon2
-Starter
Explanation: More Johto Mons than before. Originally was going to give him Lanturn for Surf... but Sneasel learns the move.

Will's team:
-Jynx
-Stantler
-Slowking
-Girafarig
-Exeggutor
-Xatu
Explanation: Elite Four need to have 6 Mons. Champion just has to have more power. Stantler is a future psychic Mon that fits here.

Koga's team:
-Qwilfish (with Spikes)
-Hypno
-Venomoth
-Muk
-Scizor
-Crobat
Explanation: Hypno is a creepy Mon that uses dirty tactics, Scizor is an armored ninja, like Koga.

Bruno's team:
-Hitmontop
-Steelix
-Hitmonchan
-Ursaring
-Hitmonlee
-Machamp
Explanation: Evolved Onix and added an angry muscular bear.

Karen's team:
-Umbreon
-Vileplume
-Octillery
-Murkrow
-Gengar
-Houndoom
Explanation: She says you should try to win with your favorites and its the type of person who would like Octillery.

Lance's team:
-Gyarados
-Nidoking
-Lapras
-Aerodactyl
-Tyranitar
-Dragonite
Explanation: No longer a Dragon or Flying type expert, just a powerful and diverse trainer. Also has an actual Johto Mon now.
 
Eeveeto said:
So, decided to post Johto rosters reimagined by me. 2 main goals:
1. More Johto Mons.
2. More difficulty but without being excessive.

Falkner's team:
-Pidgey
-Natu
-Delibird (with Peck and Mud Slap, no Present, which would be a level-up move, but at like level 15)
Explanation: This guy doesnt use any Flying type Mon, he uses Birds. So, things like Zubat, Togetic or Skiploom wouldnt work. Noctowl is too bulky, so Delibird seems right. It makes easier to use Cyndaquil in GSC, since the TM is Mud Slap.

Bugsy's team:
-Pineco (with Spikes).
-Spinarak
-Shuckle (with Berry)
-Scyther (lead in HGSS)
Explanation: Basically, a showcase of Johto Bugs. Ledyba is so pathetically bad, I am leaving it out. Shuckle looks hard, but since it has no recovery and no offensive power, its more an annoyance than actual threat. Both Quilava and Bayleef beat it easily.

Whitney's team:
-Clefairy
-Nidorina
-Miltank
Explanation: 3 Mons only, since one is the dreaded Miltank. She used Nidorina in the anime, so it works here to prevent Machop from sweeping.

Morty's team:
-Haunter
-Misdreavus
-Noctowl
-Gengar
Explanation: Misdreavus is an unused ghost. Noctowl is a nocturnal bird that fits on ghost theme.

Chuck's team:
-Primeape
-Granbull
-Heracross
-Poliwrath
Explanation: 3 Fight Mons + 1 tough Mon that fits.

Jasmine's team:
-Magneton
-Sudowoodo
-Skarmory
-Steelix
Explanation: Jasmine used to be a Rock type leader, Sudowoodo is a remnant of that. It prevents Fire Mons from easily sweeping her team.

Pryce's team:
-Jynx
-Ninetales
-Sneasel
-Dewgong
-Piloswine
Explanation: Pryce is old and wise. At his high age, he should in fact own 6 Mons, but since he is not last leader, I am giving him only 5. Ninetales is not due to the Alola form, it just fits his theme of being old and wise.

Claire's team:
-Arbok
-Dragonair
-Dragonair
-Dragonair
-Dunsparce
-Kingdra
Explanation: Strongest Gym leader has a full team, even though half of it are Dragonairs. Dunsparce is awesome and draconic enough, so is Arbok.

Rival's team:
-Sneasel
-Ampharos
-Golbat (Crobat in Kanto)
-Alakazam
-Porygon2
-Starter
Explanation: More Johto Mons than before. Originally was going to give him Lanturn for Surf... but Sneasel learns the move.

Will's team:
-Jynx
-Stantler
-Slowking
-Girafarig
-Exeggutor
-Xatu
Explanation: Elite Four need to have 6 Mons. Champion just has to have more power. Stantler is a future psychic Mon that fits here.

Koga's team:
-Qwilfish (with Spikes)
-Hypno
-Venomoth
-Muk
-Scizor
-Crobat
Explanation: Hypno is a creepy Mon that uses dirty tactics, Scizor is an armored ninja, like Koga.

Bruno's team:
-Hitmontop
-Steelix
-Hitmonchan
-Ursaring
-Hitmonlee
-Machamp
Explanation: Evolved Onix and added an angry muscular bear.

Karen's team:
-Umbreon
-Vileplume
-Octillery
-Murkrow
-Gengar
-Houndoom
Explanation: She says you should try to win with your favorites and its the type of person who would like Octillery.

Lance's team:
-Gyarados
-Nidoking
-Lapras
-Aerodactyl
-Tyranitar
-Dragonite
Explanation: No longer a Dragon or Flying type expert, just a powerful and diverse trainer. Also has an actual Johto Mon now.
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I don’t want to disappoint you, but this would count as wishlisting due to explicit “dream team” type of thing and brief explanations for additions or removals.

To stay on-topic of the forum’s name though? Having Bruno as part of the Johto-game Elite Four is a poor choice given Chuck is already a Fighting-type specialist and both have overlapping Pokémon, so he might either go for a different type (Ground, to refer his Onix members as those are part Ground-type) or be removed, as Agatha and Lorelei are also removed to avoid overlap with Morty and Pryce respectively.
 
Adeleine said:
Onix has a zillion defense cuz it’s a puzzle / tutorial boss, and a zillion defense deters you from mashing the basic option, encouraging you to find the solution

What’s the puzzle solution to Noctowl

(Crying)
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Get a Geodude or die lmao. And that's with Falkner having Mud-Slap as a TM, which only makes things even worse. :totodiLUL:

For reference, here's Cyndaquil and Pidgeotto.
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I get that Noctowl fits Falkner visually, but people really gotta do the math and test it out before saying things like this. :mehowth:
 
Mad Ram said:
It also doesn't help his ace is level 9. For the record, Geodude learns Rock Throw at level 11. You have to deliberately overlevel in order to have a good tool against Noctowl, and that's ignoring Mud-Slap screwing with the accuracy.
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The rabbit hole is a bit deeper than that.

Rock Throw also has imperfect accuracy, as do most Rock moves. Geodude is generally slower than Noctowl too. There's a very real risk that you might not even get an attack off.
 
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