• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

Unpopular opinions

Just A Seaking said:
I think the simplest answer is that VGC is intended to be the post-game. There's no way to cycle through doubles or practice for VGC because VGC itself is meant to be the practice. This is the real reason that the Battle Frontier has never returned, I think - with VGC, all of the competitive post-game content is maintained via online features, and doesn't require additional development time beyond basic implementation of online. By contrast, the Battle Frontier requires a lot more work - designing/implementing assets, making/balancing enemy teams, coming up with gimmick concepts - whereas VGC is largely self-sustaining other than Regulation changes. Even if you're not interested in VGC, there's also Raids for co-op play. Unlike VGC, this isn't really self-sustaining since 7* raids are custom made to keep interest around, but there's certainly a lot less work put into them than with even a Battle Tower equivalent.

Frankly, I don't expect even the Battle Tower to ever return. VGC (and I guess Battle Spot? That's still around, right?) are meant to fill that post-game battling void, with Raids either supplementing VGC with the resources they provide or substituting it as post-game content for people who aren't interested in Raids. I'm not a fan for a number of reasons - I hate Raids, and the Battle Frontier has survived past the DS's servers going online whereas VGC won't - but I can see the merit in allocating that development time and effort elsewhere.
Click to expand...
I could make a whole essay about how bad of an idea this is.

Tbh, it's not entirely incorrect. It's really the old dusty "Battle online, trade with your friends, get the whole dex" and Raids.

Raids are objectively a huge part of post-game content moving forward, there's a reason we're still getting 7-Star Raids in SV.
 
Just A Seaking said:
I think the simplest answer is that VGC is intended to be the post-game. There's no way to cycle through doubles or practice for VGC because VGC itself is meant to be the practice. This is the real reason that the Battle Frontier has never returned, I think - with VGC, all of the competitive post-game content is maintained via online features, and doesn't require additional development time beyond basic implementation of online. By contrast, the Battle Frontier requires a lot more work - designing/implementing assets, making/balancing enemy teams, coming up with gimmick concepts - whereas VGC is largely self-sustaining other than Regulation changes. Even if you're not interested in VGC, there's also Raids for co-op play. Unlike VGC, this isn't really self-sustaining since 7* raids are custom made to keep interest around, but there's certainly a lot less work put into them than with even a Battle Tower equivalent.

Frankly, I don't expect even the Battle Tower to ever return. VGC (and I guess Battle Spot? That's still around, right?) are meant to fill that post-game battling void, with Raids either supplementing VGC with the resources they provide or substituting it as post-game content for people who aren't interested in Raids. I'm not a fan for a number of reasons - I hate Raids, and the Battle Frontier has survived past the DS's servers going online whereas VGC won't - but I can see the merit in allocating that development time and effort elsewhere.
Click to expand...
See, I agree with every word here.

But as somebody who doesn't feel like paying for an online subscription all of the time, I think it's lame that all of this stuff is locked behind a paywall now.

It's why I've played more 3rd/4th gen in the past year than SV.
 
Sixfortyfive said:
See, I agree with every word here.

But as somebody who doesn't feel like paying for an online subscription all of the time, I think it's lame that all of this stuff is locked behind a paywall now.

It's why I've played more 3rd/4th gen in the past year than SV.
Click to expand...
The raids are not locked behind NSO.
You receive tera raid updates even without it as long as you have internet.

The only limitation is that you are forced to do them solo with AI or local coop
 
Volt-Ikazuchi said:
View attachment 736282
Happy? Ain't no way bruh :totodiLUL:


*Checks thread title*

I'mma keep it a stack with you, the PWT was MID. :mehowth:

Plain 3v3 is just too short for me. I like the concept, but the execution needed some spice. As it stands, it's a telegraphed Battle Tower with actual characters. I'd like to see them interact more, maybe use an improved version of the Battle Dome tournament style so we see the leaders duking it out too
Click to expand...
Almost all the battle facilities limit your pokemon to 3 in singles and 4 for doubles though. At least the PWT has the triples option as well to use all six

IMO it's my favorite battle facility since fighting actual gym leaders, champions, etc is really cool, and besides that it functions very similarily to other battle facilities, minus streaks.
 
ill be honest idc that much abt post game being battle centric. why would i fight npcs when i can ladder climb with people that have brains. i much prefer theyd add more side stories, post game plots and minigames etc
 
Bakugames said:
ill be honest idc that much abt post game being battle centric. why would i fight npcs when i can ladder climb with people that have brains. i much prefer theyd add more side stories, post game plots and minigames etc
Click to expand...
I'll be a boring person and just state the obvious:
All of those require development time for "one off" content that's played then abandoned, in a series that's already struggling to deliver functional games on time. Forget it, it's a miracle we even get any kind of postgame stories via patches now.
 
Worldie said:
The raids are not locked behind NSO.
You receive tera raid updates even without it as long as you have internet.

The only limitation is that you are forced to do them solo with AI or local coop
Click to expand...
You get the basic daily raids built into the game, but I'm actually not sure if you get the event raids (7* and such) because you can't access the online mode at all.

Either way, I do not consider raids to be very worthwhile. It's the sort of low-effort content-treadmill slop that a "live service" game fills out just to keep you on the daily grind and get those engagement metrics up. I'm kind of over that.
 
Sixfortyfive said:
You get the basic daily raids built into the game, but I'm actually not sure if you get the event raids (7* and such) because you can't access the online mode at all.
Click to expand...
You get everything as long as you unlocked them, including 7*.

Bakugames said:
I dont care about the obvious lol i still want it
Click to expand...
Unfortunately for you, capitalism doesn't care of what you want, they care of what's worth investing in.
Sorry to burst your bubble with cold harsh reality checks :wo:
 
Worldie said:
You get everything as long as you unlocked them, including 7*.
Click to expand...
How? I've only ever seen those spawn in the past after connecting to the news portal, which wipes the current map of its normal raids and gives you a new set, including timed events like 7*. Never seen those crop up without connecting online.
 
Sixfortyfive said:
How? I've only ever seen those spawn in the past after connecting to the news portal, which wipes the current map of its normal raids and gives you a new set, including timed events like 7*. Never seen those crop up without connecting online.
Click to expand...
You can connect online to get the Poke Portal News without actually having NSO and also to get Mystery Gifts, you just can't actually use the online battle/trade features. It was the same for SWSH. You have to have actually unlocked the ability to do 6 star raids in order for the 7 stars to appear though.
 
Sixfortyfive said:
How? I've only ever seen those spawn in the past after connecting to the news portal, which wipes the current map of its normal raids and gives you a new set, including timed events like 7*. Never seen those crop up without connecting online.
Click to expand...
AztecCroc said:
You can connect online to get the Poke Portal News without actually having NSO and also to get Mystery Gifts, you just can't actually use the online battle/trade features. It was the same for SWSH. You have to have actually unlocked the ability to do 6 star raids in order for the 7 stars to appear though.
Click to expand...
Correct.

Contrarly to popular belief, NSO isn't required to access internet on the Switch.
Only to access certain internet services, aka mostly, multiplayer features for paid games.
Es, you don't actually need NSO to use Pokemon Home, nor to play Pokemon Unite (and other F2P games like Fortnite or Master Duel), but you do need it to play Splatoon online.
 
AztecCroc said:
You can connect online to get the Poke Portal News without actually having NSO and also to get Mystery Gifts, you just can't actually use the online battle/trade features. It was the same for SWSH. You have to have actually unlocked the ability to do 6 star raids in order for the 7 stars to appear though.
Click to expand...
You know, I was going go be a real smartass in response to this. Pulled out the Switch with every intention to clip and share how this actually works in practice. If you try to "Connect to Internet" via either the main menu or the Mystery Gift menu, you just get stopped cold with an NSO purchase screen and it kicks you back to the menu if you decline. Doesn't pull up the news. Doesn't download raid/outbreak updates.

BUT. Just to be thorough, I went into the Mystery Gift submenu and clicked "Check Poke Portal News" specifically. That downloads the most recent raid/outbreak updates. It still doesn't actually let me read any details on exactly what got downloaded--the news updates themselves are nowhere to be seen--but the content itself does still get distributed this way; the map got updated with the usual glowy raid icons.

Still seems suboptimal that I'd have to actually pull up an external website or the Pokemon Home mobile app just to read the actual news updates on what's being distributed in SV, but I suppose it's better than nothing, and I wouldn't have checked this thoroughly without being prompted to, so thanks.
 
Volt-Ikazuchi said:
View attachment 736282
Happy? Ain't no way bruh :totodiLUL:


*Checks thread title*

I'mma keep it a stack with you, the PWT was MID. :mehowth:

Plain 3v3 is just too short for me. I like the concept, but the execution needed some spice. As it stands, it's a telegraphed Battle Tower with actual characters. I'd like to see them interact more, maybe use an improved version of the Battle Dome tournament style so we see the leaders duking it out too.
Click to expand...
No like I was surprised at my own reaction too when I actually thought about it lol

The only aspects of the Frontier I enjoyed were the Factory & Dome. I didn't even really get into the Platinum frontier.

Pyramid and Pike had potential, but it was hax central it just put me off.

Arena and Tower were a bit boring and I despised the Palace. There's good concepts there, but IMO the highlights were rentals and tournament style battling. If they brought these elements back in different, repeatable ways and combine it with historic characters, I'd be down.

3v3 (I only played Doubles anyway) never really bothered me, but I do agree, some spice would've been nice, I guess I just have a hugeeee soft spot for Black and White 2

There's so much potential in end-game facilities with what they've done so far, it would add to their playerbase satisfaction (and they could merch the death out of it)
 
Perriechu said:
Pyramid and Pike had potential, but it was hax central it just put me off.
Click to expand...
if anything, I think the Pyramid is tuned to be too easy. It's likely the easiest facility to get an indefinite streak. The roster of wild Pokemon on each sequence is a known quantity and pretty small, which makes them easy to gameplan around specifically, and Softboiled is so busted that a cleric Blissey trivializes most of it.

A few of the streaks in the records thread only ended due to power loss / save file corruption and the player not wanting to dump in the time to clear another 1000+ floors.
 
Factory is the easiest one to call straight up good, but even it, at least in Gen4, is plagued by totally unintuitive swap mechanics and dreadful cutscene / loading / waiting times. Which is unfortunate

And that's with me taking a generous interpretation that the evasion stall bs is just part of its unique charm
 
Perriechu said:
The only aspects of the Frontier I enjoyed were the Factory & Dome.
Click to expand...
Dawn Man of Culture.jpg


Let me paint you a picture then.

Battle Dome, with Leaders and other major characters (PWT cut the Elite 4, I'm sick), Take 6, Pick 3 in Singles, Take 6, Pick 4 in Doubles like VGC. You can see the brackets just like the Dome, and you can also click on a past match to watch a replay.

That's the vision. This is what the PWT should've been.
 
Adeleine said:
i wish the pwt teams felt like the gym leader's teams, and not random mons of the type cobbled together

without that i can't really feel invested in it
Click to expand...
That got me thinking, so I decided to take a quick check.

Gonna use Falkner as an example.

So, basically, Falkner's HGSS rematch team is: Staraptor, Noctowl, Swellow, Honchkrow, Pelipper, and his ace is Pidgeot.
His Johto PWT team is: Pidgeot, Fearow, Dodrio, Honchkrow, Xatu, Noctowl.
His Expert PWT team is: Pidgeot, Crobat, Aerodactyl, Honchkrow, Xatu, and Swellow.

Falkner's character is all about taking pride in his father's old dusty BIRD pokémon. So that means he's probably not gonna break out other Flying-types like Jumpluff, which is fine tbh.

There's a catch though.

Falkner, a Gen 2 Flying-type leader who focuses on avian Pokémon... Doesn't have a Skarmory? Seriously?
 
Volt-Ikazuchi said:
That got me thinking, so I decided to take a quick check.

Gonna use Falkner as an example.

So, basically, Falkner's HGSS rematch team is: Staraptor, Noctowl, Swellow, Honchkrow, Pelipper, and his ace is Pidgeot.
His Johto PWT team is: Pidgeot, Fearow, Dodrio, Honchkrow, Xatu, Noctowl.
His Expert PWT team is: Pidgeot, Crobat, Aerodactyl, Honchkrow, Xatu, and Swellow.

Falkner's character is all about taking pride in his father's old dusty BIRD pokémon. So that means he's probably not gonna break out other Flying-types like Jumpluff, which is fine tbh.

There's a catch though.

Falkner, a Gen 2 Flying-type leader who focuses on avian Pokémon... Doesn't have a Skarmory? Seriously?
Click to expand...
I should note that I don't like his rematch team either (and various other hgss rematch teams too iirc)

It feels like random birds lumped together. Better than random Flying-types - I guess it's better than Expert PWT because it doesn't have, like a random Aerodactyl (??) - but I don't see a vision or direction behind the set birds chosen.

I'd expect a 6-mon Falkner team to have each mon be multiple of the following:

- Bird (He's the dedicated bird guy)
- Region of origin (Johto)
- Fitting His Particular Battling Feel ™ (unassuming, no-nonsense, Normal-type-ish Pokemon with fairly simple strategies)

(You'll notice I didn't include "Flying-type" on this list. While I'd obviously expect his team to be Flying-biased, my general Gym Leader philosophy is being pretty tolerant of measured, limited variation from the primary type, if there is a good enough justification.)

With this critera set, I'd expect his team to be like:

1. Pidgeot (ace)

2-3. Fearow, Noctowl as pretty hard to argue against

Rest. From among Dodrio, Porygon2, Swellow, Golduck, Xatu, Pelipper, Skarmory

Going through this, I'm actually pretty OK with his PWT Johto team, at least in terms of Pokemon. I think Honchkrow is too extra but like, it's the only mon that didn't make my list, and it's at least an evolution of a Johto bird. I could complain about the sets, I could indeed do that, but this is getting pretty long already.

One might look at this list and say "Hey Ado, these Pokemon you set up for him are generally not great, he's gonna be kind of easy." And I'd say... yeah, cool. He's a 1st gym leader. I have no issue with him being easier. He obviously shouldn't have level 12 Pidgeys out there, but him being on the weaker end of the power level is chill.
 
Last edited:
I'm disappointed the GS and HGSS Johto Gym Leaders didn't have as many native Johto Pokemon as they could have, Noctowl could have worked as Falkner's Gym 1 ace, but Bugsy could've used Ledyba and Spinarak as his other non-ace Pokemon. At least Miltank is from Johto. Was it the point to focus more on the older Pokemon from Kanto at the time? Kalos and Alola also focused on older Pokemon as well.
 
Mova said:
I'm disappointed the GS and HGSS Johto Gym Leaders didn't have as many native Johto Pokemon as they could have, Noctowl could have worked as Falkner's Gym 1 ace, but Bugsy could've used Ledyba and Spinarak as his other non-ace Pokemon. At least Miltank is from Johto. Was it the point to focus more on the older Pokemon from Kanto at the time? Kalos and Alola also focused on older Pokemon as well.
Click to expand...
Whenever I play through a Pokemon game these days, I try to build my main team of 6 according to a few basic rules: no legendaries, no HM mules, diverse typing, and consisting entirely of Pokemon that were introduced in that generation.

I don't think I've ever held to that last rule when playing a Johto game. Partly because it didn't introduce very many new Pokemon compared to later generations, and partly because it doesn't even really focus on the new Pokemon to begin with. It's one of the reasons why I feel that Johto just doesn't do a very good job of establishing its own identity.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top