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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
- Start date
I mean, it's a Japanese game, they have a specific word for "suicide due to overwork". Teaching kids early that your employer doesn't care about you and it's up to you and your coworkers to set boundaries and protect yourselves can only be a good thing.
That's on me for not really elaborating beyond what I said at first. I didn't mean for that to sound like the kids were being indoctrinated into anything. I meant for that to sound like the games were raising awareness for this and possibly motivating older players to want to live a more, for lack of a better word, "fulfilling" life than someone in Larry's shoes. Case in point:
This post pretty much hit the nail on the head. In hindsight I worded that a lot more negative than I meant for. For that, I apologize. I do still agree that I as an individual don't want to be reminded of real life when I'm playing Pokémon but I can definitely see the appeal of those kinds of characters and storylines. The more real world positivity and awareness these games can encourage, the better. It only becomes a problem if players actively being indoctrinated into bad things, which as you mentioned, is definitely not the case.
Fwiw, "showing in face of children how unfair the world of adults is" is actually more common than you'd think in JRPGs.
Many of the modern JRPGs in some form do that, and I don't think there's any propaganda or anything like that in it. It's just something developers do, maybe just as self insert, or just because why not.
In the case of Pokemon, it's simply one of the many "real life references" that a kid isn't really going to understand but an adult will and will often get a smile out of it. In same fashion of say, sexual references and other random "why is this in a kid's game" thing.
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Once up on the time I came to this thread to complain about the absurd amount of clauses on smogon rules and how that was a unpopular opinion...
But sometime later I discover the tier gen3custom game where we can set rules simples with a line of code as:
/challenge [user],gen3customgame@@@obtainable
And now a days I'm manage to lead tournaments without any clause using showdown as a support to emulate catridge game.
Also, Showdown is better then emulators since it's high quality and versality in cellphone and computer.
But sometime later I discover the tier gen3custom game where we can set rules simples with a line of code as:
/challenge [user],gen3customgame@@@obtainable
And now a days I'm manage to lead tournaments without any clause using showdown as a support to emulate catridge game.
Also, Showdown is better then emulators since it's high quality and versality in cellphone and computer.
Two related opinions:
1) The definitive Pokemon fangame has not been made yet. Solid attempts have come around over the years, but each of them are missing something or another to truly take them to that next level occupied by projects like Sonic & The Fallen Star, AM2R and Fallout London. The closest is probably Pokemon Xenoverse, which seems very well-thought out and made overall but still has some noticeable presentational deficiencies (lol at that adult Silver design just being Giovanni with a wig).
2) When this next-level production is finally made there is very a good chance it'll be done by the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon fanbase. For the relative youth and small size of that series' fangame scene they've made shockingly quick progress on everything from sprite art to writing. Maybe it's confirmation bias but they just seem to have a fundamentally different, more holistic outlook where they think about how PMD can be enriched as a setting and what kinds of stories can be told in it more often than the Pokemon Essentials crowd who seem generally more interested in metagaming. It could even be the fault of some bad incentives with mainline rom hackers churning out kaizo stuff for Youtubers to play while the PMD fanbase is sufficiently niche and tight-knit to where they're not making games for anyone besides themselves.
If this is all woefully misinformed nonsense, do let me know.
1) The definitive Pokemon fangame has not been made yet. Solid attempts have come around over the years, but each of them are missing something or another to truly take them to that next level occupied by projects like Sonic & The Fallen Star, AM2R and Fallout London. The closest is probably Pokemon Xenoverse, which seems very well-thought out and made overall but still has some noticeable presentational deficiencies (lol at that adult Silver design just being Giovanni with a wig).
2) When this next-level production is finally made there is very a good chance it'll be done by the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon fanbase. For the relative youth and small size of that series' fangame scene they've made shockingly quick progress on everything from sprite art to writing. Maybe it's confirmation bias but they just seem to have a fundamentally different, more holistic outlook where they think about how PMD can be enriched as a setting and what kinds of stories can be told in it more often than the Pokemon Essentials crowd who seem generally more interested in metagaming. It could even be the fault of some bad incentives with mainline rom hackers churning out kaizo stuff for Youtubers to play while the PMD fanbase is sufficiently niche and tight-knit to where they're not making games for anyone besides themselves.
If this is all woefully misinformed nonsense, do let me know.
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I partially agree with the second point. Story writing is way more important for instance
MD however brings its own challenge of sprites for post Gen 5 mons varying for quality. Mainline only has to worry of larger battle sprites just being 2 poses, or ifpiss tweened, BW styled. PMD deals with 8 directions per action outside sleep. It's intensive. The spriting channels in the Skytemple Discord setup a guide and repository of mon sprites, and are in the process of revamping Gen 5 mons. Some users are too pressed to finish a mon, and may donate to the "sprite orphange" for other users to finish it. You can see the results for finished mons here
https://sprites.pmdcollab.org/
Gameplay wise, Skytemple helps with editing a lot, but it's still limited currently for mon slot IDs. Custom moves at least are possible
MD however brings its own challenge of sprites for post Gen 5 mons varying for quality. Mainline only has to worry of larger battle sprites just being 2 poses, or if
https://sprites.pmdcollab.org/
Gameplay wise, Skytemple helps with editing a lot, but it's still limited currently for mon slot IDs. Custom moves at least are possible
Are we defining 'definitive' based on fan reception or the quality of the output? I think several creators have successfully executed their own artistic vision with flair and polish, but I don't think we'll ever have something that's considered the go-to Pokemon main series fangame among the fanbase at large, because we're divided into several big groups that tend to want completely different things. I agree that PMD has a better shot, mainly because I think the list of things a fan wants in a definitive PMD fangame would be pretty similar no matter whom you asked.
A combination of both, really. I'm curious what game(s) you'd nominate. That said idt differing fan opinions is an issue, same goes for Sonic and they got some actual acclaimed works of art like the aforementioned Falling Star and Triple Trouble 16-bit
I think that high-quality projects will come from the games with working disassemblies.
Hacking away at raw walls of hex or with limited tools is a chore to say the least, and it really limits what you can do.
I'm curious to see what the BDSP community is cooking tbh.
Hmm I'm a big Reborn defender haha, and recently I've played and really enjoyed BW3: Genesis and Coral, although the latter is a long way from being finished. It's honestly pretty uncommon for me to even like a Pokemon fangame, so my list is always going to be pretty short.
I'm not really familiar with Triple Trouble, but from what I understand, Fallen Star's visuals and soundtrack are pretty universally beloved, but the level design divides people along the usual lines (those who appreciate its flow and speed vs those who find it a little too simplistic and straightforward). At the risk of oversimplifying, I think main series Pokemon fangames have the same issue, where some people want flow and others want friction.
I have a lot of thoughts about how hard it is to create broadly satisfying difficulty in a main series Pokemon game or fangame, but it started to feel like a big ranty tangent so I'll leave it for now haha.
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I lean more towards the position that there are different enough preferences that there won't be a single agreed-on best fangame, somewhat because I'm part of the problem. My current top contender is Emerald Rogue (what's a story?) which, while I don't agree with every design decision, still feels closer to what I want out of a mainline game than the current mainline games themselves.
Y'know, people claim the new Exp. Share is good because it "removes grinding".
When do you ever need to grind in these games besides the E4 prep phase?
When do you ever need to grind in these games besides the E4 prep phase?
It's not so much "removes grinding" literally, but rather lets you keep your entire team leveled without having to do the weird swap arounds, as well as level up freshly caught mons without needing to drag yourself through "send in, swap pokemon, KO, repeat" (moreso for things like Magikarp or Ralts).
The issue has never been Exp share, it's always been that the games' exp curve does not accomodate for its existance.
At this point any game that features swappable partyes and does not feature some form of "backrow also gets exp" is just artificially inflating playtime, we're not in 1990 anymore.
Personally what I wanna see more fangames that have their own unique take on Pokémon rather than trying to look "official". People already brought up Sonic and the Fallen Star with its unique style, and the Mega Man fanbase also has stuff like Perfect Blue. I wanna see fangames with really strong identities that explore more concepts than just "gyms but harder". Not that there isn't games like that, but they're usually relegated to game jams and tend to be too unrefined and in a smaller scope
Sadly most people are into the series for the cute designs, not the RPG gameplay
Seeing reviews praising SV for making most trainer battles optional was my personal Joker moment
I'm telling you people, the moment they make some sort Pokemon life sim it'll be all over. Call it something like "My Pokemon Neighborhood" and it's just Animal Crossing but now your townsfolk are Pokemon. Trailer shows you going to Greninja's house and then having a conversation with Scyther mowing his lawn with his arms. 10 million copies sold at least.
This would be solved if the more badges or higher leveled mons you have, the faster early level mons you're training gain levels
Like a sort of mentorship. Let's say you have a level 30 mon, and you're training a level 12 mon. The game sees the highest level in your party, then applies a (if highest level greater than yours by over 4 levels, do EXP multiplier High Level/Cur Mon level)
So a 2.5x EXP gain for that lvl 12 mon in that instance. Maybe also reward the player for having multiple high level mons or badges to further increase exp gain for lower level mons
Of course the main thing is how Lvl 70 legendaries caught would impact this, so maybe have a check to prevent quick lvl ups
The Exp crystals are convenient, but pretty divorced from teamwork theme. Though it does make things less grindy
Like a sort of mentorship. Let's say you have a level 30 mon, and you're training a level 12 mon. The game sees the highest level in your party, then applies a (if highest level greater than yours by over 4 levels, do EXP multiplier High Level/Cur Mon level)
So a 2.5x EXP gain for that lvl 12 mon in that instance. Maybe also reward the player for having multiple high level mons or badges to further increase exp gain for lower level mons
Of course the main thing is how Lvl 70 legendaries caught would impact this, so maybe have a check to prevent quick lvl ups
The Exp crystals are convenient, but pretty divorced from teamwork theme. Though it does make things less grindy
I've seen someone saying exactly this back when Concierge came out lol
I mean ultimately Exp crystals are "enough", but I'm just saying. If teamwork is so important, how come it doesn't impact other elements? How come IVs are so rigid unlike EVs for Gens 1-6 it meant your starter you raised would never be peak without RNG manipulation for comp?
The fact Exp Share penalized you Gen 1-6 by splitting exp says a lot to me. No wonder people got encouraged to mindlessly solo with just the starter + some legendaries, the game's idea of "get new toy and trash old" seriously hurts it, and makes revisiting old areas go from "heh, I can one shot now" to "oh no...my new toy is so weak to raise". And we complained enough of early game just not lasting, and still in Gen 9 be victim of mid-late game power creep in comp (bar Lokix)
The lack of actual teamwork in Pokemon is accredited to many archaic game design. Instant PCs honestly helps a bit (just remove HP restoring), but the player has no incentive to experimenting. If GF wants to be nasty, they can implement a stamina gauge early game to encourage not soloing, but I dunno. Might be much
I don't mind full team exp share modern games have, but they don't work cuz GF can't balance shit early game due to traditional archaicness
The fact Exp Share penalized you Gen 1-6 by splitting exp says a lot to me. No wonder people got encouraged to mindlessly solo with just the starter + some legendaries, the game's idea of "get new toy and trash old" seriously hurts it, and makes revisiting old areas go from "heh, I can one shot now" to "oh no...my new toy is so weak to raise". And we complained enough of early game just not lasting, and still in Gen 9 be victim of mid-late game power creep in comp (bar Lokix)
The lack of actual teamwork in Pokemon is accredited to many archaic game design. Instant PCs honestly helps a bit (just remove HP restoring), but the player has no incentive to experimenting. If GF wants to be nasty, they can implement a stamina gauge early game to encourage not soloing, but I dunno. Might be much
I don't mind full team exp share modern games have, but they don't work cuz GF can't balance shit early game due to traditional archaicness
That has always been a problem with the old Exp. Share's availability though.
And "backrow also gets exp" does nothing but inflate levels. Honestly, the bigger problem is the Exp. Groups. Exp isn't equal for everyone.
It wouldn't be a problem if it worked, but nothing about it works as intended!
Well, yes, as I said the issue is that the exp curve doesn't accomodate for it, and the "exp groups" also stopped making sense approximatey 5 entries ago.It wouldn't be a problem if it worked, but nothing about it works as intended!
But again, the feature itself is fine, and if it wasn't around even I would just go back to just faceroll everything with my starter cause what'd even be the point to make my life harder otherwise.
I think that the current exp share doesn't really alleviate the pressure to just solo with a single mon because fainted members don't gain exp. This means that you can frequently end up with less total exp for trying to actually use the weaker members compared to having them just sit behind the ace. Scaling exp with level difference tries to deal with this, but I think it would need to be dialed up to awkward extremes to fully counter it.