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Unpopular opinions

Man, all this Hoenn propaganda is making me want to play the games again.

me yapping ab Hoenn

Around this time last year, I Nuzlocked Emerald a few times, but the second I used a modded version because I don't like the Pokemon selection. I think it's entirely aesthetical, as I like Johto's new Pokemon, and like Platinum's regional dex. Funnily enough, due to my gripes with the dex, I never really took full advantage of the retracing your steps portion of Hoenn. I do find the midgame super fun so I usually speed post-Electric gym through Skyla.

My gripe is that the water portion of the game is mid: it doesn't introduce enough new Pokemon, the routes all blend together, and diving is especially disappointing. I only half remember what those ugly underground beasts look like. I understand mechanically why its interesting to have so much variation of Pokemon level when you're surfing, but it makes training hard and makes me wanna repel my way through it. And in Emerald, there is a lot of back and forthing at the height of the plot. I prefer it to being dragged around by a bunch of cutscenes, but discovering Sky Pillar on my own instead of being told to go there would be better. And also not putting a trainer there that I definitely remember every time and don't accidentally lose a Pokemon too in multiple Nuzlockes.


But that's not why I made this post. I've been replaying Crystal to get the taste of Sun/Moon out of my mouth. And after disliking HG/SS to my delight, I found I still love Crystal. I intend to make a larger scale post discussing why I feel like Crystal is a superior experience to the remakes. But first I wanted to address something: I was hate-watching a YouTube video before dinner talking about "Bad Johto Pokemon" where one of the Pokemon mentioned was Phanpy. After dinner, I swept through the Goldenrod underground fight against my rival with Donphan. It was sooo much fun too. Rollout to KO Golat, Feraligatr, and Sneasel (if my son was stupid enough to bring out an ice type against the fifth turn of rollout I'd disown him too), then mud slap gastly who cursed itself down, and then used Mud-Slap on the last 1-2 Pokemon to KO them in order to avoid accruing any Curse damage, as I only had 1/3 of my health left.

Phanpy was shit on in the video because it has a low encounter rate, and a "bad first-stage" and "bad moveset." I guess I lucked out because I caught Phanpy right away a few nights ago when I stayed up too late, but with how fast you get encounters in Gen 2, I was seeing several Teddiursa before I gave up on them and switched to Phanpy. I switch trained and got the xp share before tackling the Team Rocket hideout in Mahagony Town, and shortly after beating Pryce, it evolved into Donphan. After that, I did look up its moveset to see when it would get a good ground move, and to my horror, I too thought I had screwed up. But after giving it Strength (which in Gen 2 gets the 12.5 % Normal Badge Boost so its close to a 90 BP move) and Mud-Slap, it was practically one-shotting everything on the Water Routes surround whirl island. Eventually it got rollout, and now its a wrap.

My hot take isn't that Phanpy rules (although it does), but that Pokemon fans tend to overestimate the difficulty of training up Pokemon that aren't prductive right away, and overestimate the need for a strong STAB move that utilizes your better attacking stat. Sure, I've gone out of my way to do a little switch training, and fought a fairly high amount of wild Pokemon in a few of the dungeons, but my total time when I'm close to finishing the Team Rocket Radio Tower thing is 25 hours, and that's with a lot of non-grinding backtracking, and I trained up 1-2 Pokemon worth of xp I decided not to use. And I already have a whole team of 6 right at the level I want them at pre-Claire.

idk. less so on here, but a lot of Pokemon fans on Reddit and YouTube act like training up a Gyarados is a punishment worse than spending a year in prison when it's only an hour of your time if that, and you literally get Gyarados afterwards. I'm playing on 3ds with no speed up, and finishing a game's main part in <35 hours when I'm being leisurely isn't bad, even with a small map like Johto's. In longer games, it's about the same. Also, for all the talk of "everyone has the same team of 6 in Johto/Sinnoh" may be true in result, I think these regions have a ton of viable options. Sometimes you do have to wait a little longer to explore some of those options, but that's part of designing a region: you can't put all the cool Pokemon at the beginning or it would be boring at the end. But I'll be expanding on this more when I talk about the Physical Special Split in the Crystal vs. HGSS post.

Now I do think it would be cool to use the fossil Pokemon earlier in FRLG... but that's a story for another day.

also: I may have brought this up before, but again, after facing Whitney: she's not that bad. Yes, I may be a grown man, but there are other gym leaders that give me substantially more trouble. I did wipe to her once this time, but that was because she got hella lucky with crits and not missing. I went back with 0 training and won. Had i not been lazy and leveled up my eggsecutor to 13, it wouldn't have happened because I could have leech seeded Miltank instead of beating it down with ineffective attacks.

All you gotta do if you have Quilava is spam Smokescreen so Whitney can't hit jack, after Quilava goes down or you get bored, go to Eggy and set up reflect + hypnosis. Then bring in Polycule or wtv Red's bff Pokemon is called and spam the water move that can cause speed drops so you outspeed Miltank. Then you flinch her with headbutt. if you don't have Quilava, exit the game and erase your save and create a new one where you made a better starter choice.

Not even the hardest fight in the game thus far, that would be those three optional trainers on the route who semi bum-rush you all at once with those strong water Pokemon (the ones you have to surf to get through. I assume Claire and Lance + Elite 4 member who burns me for running 4/6th weak to grass will be harder.
 
Basedwell said:
My hot take isn't that Phanpy rules (although it does), but that Pokemon fans tend to overestimate the difficulty of training up Pokemon that aren't prductive right away, and overestimate the need for a strong STAB move that utilizes your better attacking stat.
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I've noticed recently that fans tend to be judgemental when selecting what Pokemon to choose. One example, Luxray is one of the Sinnoh fan favorites, but nowdays you'll have people pointing out how flawed its movepool and stat distribuition is, despite Luxray having done good work for many DPPt players in their adventure.

Maybe it's bc of the rise of tier lists and online rankings, which plenty of them have well researched, but keep in mind that in the end, they are suggestions. Pokemon is a game series that allows you to pick multiple options throughout your adventure, and the difficulty still remains do-able. Chikorita is one of the most infamous examples, it's weak to a lot of gyms but, like, you're not going to stick to just Chikorita, right? Besides, with Reflect up Chikorita can solo Falkner lol, there's plenty of factors to consider if a Pokemon does good or not, but most importantly it comes down to what the player wants to use.

For another example, and a personal of mine, Crabrawler. Yeah, it took forever to evolve, literally the final dungeon of the game, but I kept it bc I just liked having that crabby friend, and it was more satisfying when it finished off a stronger mon. In the final battle against Kukui, Crabominable one shot Snorlax, which then I later heard that this mon in particular caused many players trouble.

Also since this is the unpopular opinions thread, I want to add that Crabominable is based and ppl took the Crabrawler trailer too seriously
 
MoonlightRose said:
Flygon, a pokemon that hides in the sandstorms it causes, has neither Sand Veil nor Sand Stream.
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I want to springboard this into a full thought

I completely disagree with this. Flygon should have Levitate, and only Levitate. This is something I believe in pretty steadfastly, though I don't actually know if it's strictly unpopular. That said, I don't believe this because of any issues in regards to Balance; the big issue with Levitate instead comes with Flavor.

Let's take Flygon as our example here. Here's a nice visual aid.

flygon flying... wait a minute.gif

It's Flying. Visually. You can tell on sight alone.

That is an issue unique to Levitate alone. There isn't another ability that is so self evident.

So it'd be a bit bizarre for Flygon to not have the effects of Levitate. It's already just floating there.

Except visually appearing to float isn't unique to Pokemon with the ability Levitate. Take Magnezone;

magnezone floating... wait another miute.gif


So what I think is most important is this is not the consistency of Pokemon which appear to be floating visually having Levitate; It's that the Pokemon which have Levitate only have Levitate. You can mistakenly expect a Pokemon to have Levitate when it may in fact not, but you should not be put in a situation where a Pokemon that could have Levitate instead has some other ability instead. This places the ambiguity of Levitate on a Pokemon purely in the realm of knowledge checks, rather than ambiguity that persists on a battle by battle basis, and makes any case of learning one which can stick, an especially important detail in a game built on knowledge building. In this sense, the importance of Flavor being consistent on front-facing elements than about capturing small bits of detail Flavor. It's significantly more important to reduce the friction inherent to building a knowledge bank about these games than it is to maximally represent small bits of flavor in gameplay. You can reasonably complain that it makes zero sense how Misdreavus and Mismagius ignore Ground type attacks, while Flutter Mane doesn't. But as far as building an understanding of the rule, you only need one piece of input to reframe your understanding of the situation and adapt for it in the future.

However... I do see the point of these sorts of thoughts on Pokemon with Levitate, and it sort of represents what I view as a pretty notable flaw of the system around abilities - that there is only room to give Pokemon one trait which exists outside the parameters of Type, Base Stats, and Move access. Individual Pokemon having access to only one ability of a possible multiple for a species can lead to unbalanced gameplay functions choking each other out, or odd instances where pieces of a Pokemon's gameplay design are mutually exclusive for no other reason. Meanwhile Pokemon species being locked to one ability to ensure they have a piece of gameplay function that should never be mutually exclusive.

Levitate is an ability which causes this issue reliably. With three total anomalous exceptions*, every single Pokemon with the ability Levitate has Levitate as its sole ability. At one point, Levitate as a sole ability was understandable from a balancing standpoint; even just changing a neutrality to Ground into an immunity, not to mention benefits against the likes of niche elements like Arena Trap and Spikes, was plenty strong enough a benefit to compare favorably to every other ability in the game on most Pokemon - at least aside from the ones which were blatantly game warping. (Shadow Tag, Huge Power, Wonder Guard, Drizzle, etc.) This did not last for long - the scope, consistency, and sheer power of abilities only rose as the generations went on, and now Levitate is only mediocre in cases where it doesn't actively remove a weakness. Now, from a pure balancing perspective, giving Pokemon like Mismagius, Cryogonal, or the aforementioned Flygon a second or third ability on top of Levitate would barely be worth noting. Alongside Power Creep, abilities have also suffered a weird sort of Flavor Creep - modern Pokemon designs tend to rely much more on having distinct abilities that create unique gameplay styles and refer back to specific bits of flavor detail. So without room to add a specific ability to refer back to flavor, not having an ability past Levitate can seem be undoubtedly boring. I think this mindset probably applies internally too; while Levitate was among the more common generic abilities in Generations 3, 4, and 5, since Generation 6 there have only been 2 new Pokemon with Levitate; Vikavolt and Galarian Weezing, the latter of which was made to introduce a flashy new ability and mainly kept Levitate as a way to keep parity with a pre-existing gameplay design. I do enjoy relatively mundane ability effects like Levitate more than most, but even in that enjoyment I can see why some are sad that Mismagius can't have Magician, why Cryogonal can't have Ice Body, or why Flygon can't have an ability that interacts with Sand, even if I agree with the way the cookie crumbled overall.

As far as a solution to this would go, there aren't really many options. I've seen innate Levitate suggested before, but that is a solution that only really applies in this one case, as I think going beyond Levitate could make such a system balloon in complexity in an undesirable way. The system and the norm around Levitate are designed to be as easy on player memory as possible, and I agree with this as a primary goal even when it contradicts Flavor, similar to stuff like Bonemerang and the like whiffing into Flying types. I do know of that one fangame / hack that gave every Pokemon species Innate Traits as a mechanic; these were just effects from Abilities which applied to every Pokemon in a species, and existed alongside Abilities as a mechanic. Even ignoring how it seemingly had the goal of artificial overcomplexity for maximum clickbait appeal, I just don't know how much I'd like such a system flying into the face of the simplicity present currently. In truth though, a system that utilizes a dual Innate + Ability system with considerably more constraint would be something I'd love to see tested.

Bronzor and Bronzong - These two have an active hidden information mixup going. The idea is that these two both originally only had 2 weaknesses, those being to Ground and Fire, with Levitate and Heatproof potentially covering for those respective weaknesses. Notably, this concept only applies in player vs player situations; the way the games originally handled enemy trainers, opponents with Pokemon that could have two (normal) abilities always used their first ability, which in this case is Levitate. As for why they went out of their way to break the at the time hard rule for these two, I'm not entirely sure. It could be to do with Bronzong's intended use case as a manual weather setter, making it less harmed by the sun it sets for teammates; it could be to do with making a Steel type that can resist Dragon moves while walling at least 2 of the super effective coverage types into Steel, making Dragon less incredibly dominant, and it even could be the case that they were originally meant to be Heatproof only but Levitate was added as a band-aid balancing solution to Garchomp. Regardless, these are the most brazen and fully realized cases of Hidden Information deception involving abilities, and can be understood to have purposely ignored the rule to create a truly unique gameplay function.

Duskull - An exception that is very simple. At the time, Duskull was the sole case of a Pokemon with the ability Levitate than evolves into a Pokemon without Levitate. Originally, Duskull simply followed the Levitate rule, solely having Levitate, while Dusclops and Dusknoir both had Pressure as their sole ability. Then in Black and White, Hidden Abilities were introduced, and the designers had two choices; arbitrarily lock Dusclops and (the in all likelihood unintentionally underwhelming) Dusknoir out of receiving a Hidden Ability because of the Levitate rule, or to break it for Duskull to allow its evolutions to get a Hidden Ability. Notably, because the Hidden Ability they gave to Dusclops and Dusknoir was Frisk, there is no ambiguous case to be found with Duskull; any Duskull which doesn't announce it's ability on switch in must be Levitating. Honestly, it's very unlikely the idea to give Duskull an ability which announces itself was a conscious choice to remove any hidden information mindgames, it's just a fitting concept for Dusclops and Dusknoir that happens to fit this rule decently.

Koffing and Weezing - These three are a weirder case, and one that sort of loops back into the point of the rest of the post. When introduced, Koffing and Weezing both followed the Levitate rule as expected, and they continued to do so for another 4 generations. When Sword and Shield came along, they came alongside Galarian Weezing, which introduced the new ability Neutralizing Gas - in the very first moment Galarian Weezing was introduced, it was made apparent that it would be breaking the Levitate rule, as it was shown to get both Levitate and Neutralizing Gas as regular abilities. This essentially required that Koffing and Kantonian Weezing get a retcon to match, as otherwise Neutralizing Gas would be unavailable unless caught directly, and the two were given Neutralizing Gas as a standard ability. Additionally, being given a standardized ability set meant Galarian Weezing also got a Hidden Ability, Misty Surge. In turn, Koffing and Kantonian Weezing also got a Hidden Ability, that being Stench. Important to the designs of these ability sets was the handling of ambiguity. For as strong and impactful as Neutralizing Gas and Misty Surge are, they are both abilities with plainly announce themselves upon Galarian Weezing's entry, meaning once again an attentive player will never see an ambiguous ability with this form. For the Kantonian counterpart, this does not strictly remain true; unlike Misty Surge, Stench does not announce itself on entry. However, Stench would probably rank among the very least impactful abilities the game has ever seen, (in battle) especially because Koffing nor Weezing is especially fast, so unless being grounded somehow advantages them, (a possibility that exists but that I have never seen unfold personally, ) the potential to leverage this hidden information in a real game setting remains very, very limited. However, Stench does make boatloads of flavorful sense for both of these Pokemon to have - again, looping back in to the point of the post.

Bonus Section! Stratagem and Equilibra (+ pre-evos but who cares) - No you are not crazy, these are not real Pokemon. They are creations of the Create-A-Pokemon (CAP for short) community on Showdown, and in short they build fake Pokemon that are highly specialized to suit their distinct, slightly stronger version of standard OU. As an extremely brief rundown of these two fake Pokemon; Stratagem is a fast and frail pure Rock type with a statline comparable to Inteleon or Jolteon (with a teeny bit more meat on the bone) and the abilities Levitate and Technician. Equilibra is a Steel / Ground type with a statline comparable to Heatran or Magearna (with a notable bias towards Special Defense) and the abilities Levitate and Bulletproof.

The whole process of CAP does go to great pains to try and make their designs seem at least plausibly in line with the vanilla rosters which exist at the time of their creation, even if the increasingly staggering demands of power creep and prime focus on metagame viability continuously push Pokemon through those boundaries in some areas, most notably with Stat Totals and Movepools. The ability designs on these don't really fit into that conversation though; they just neglect the whole point of this dynamic. Both designs were given Levitate as a primary ability, and then were allowed to move forward to be given a secondary ability per the democratic process they used for adding traits. Between the discussion in 2008 about Stratagem and the discussion in 2019 about Equilibra, despite some users pushing for neither to receive a second ability, none of them really talked within the framing of the precedent around Levitate's unique distribution, at least so far as I can tell from the forum archives. Both of them have ended up as Pokemon that persistently threaten Levitate, but can throw opponents off with a Hidden Information mixup; for Stratagem, it mainly leveraged Technician Hidden Power and Vacuum Wave, while Equilibra used the threat of having either ability to play greedily into Psychic types that strictly rely on Focus Blast for coverage.

Thing is, this issue is a lot less big a deal with CAPs. After all, in any situation in which CAPs are going to exist, players are expected to be playing in competition, and moreover you can also just hover your mouse over them or tap them with your finger, and they'll directly tell you the bulk of their mixup. (I'm ignoring a larger tangent on why Bulletproof is the second worst ability in the franchise design wise imo but that can be for another time.) Being built for an environment and suited for that environment is fine. I just find it itches me that these designs go to so many lengths to try and have parity with vanilla design conventions and then completely miss on some tiny details. Not really any more than that, but also where else would I put a thought like this.
 
pokemon4eva said:
I've noticed recently that fans tend to be judgemental when selecting what Pokemon to choose. One example, Luxray is one of the Sinnoh fan favorites, but nowdays you'll have people pointing out how flawed its movepool and stat distribuition is, despite Luxray having done good work for many DPPt players in their adventure.

Maybe it's bc of the rise of tier lists and online rankings, which plenty of them have well researched, but keep in mind that in the end, they are suggestions. Pokemon is a game series that allows you to pick multiple options throughout your adventure, and the difficulty still remains do-able. Chikorita is one of the most infamous examples, it's weak to a lot of gyms but, like, you're not going to stick to just Chikorita, right? Besides, with Reflect up Chikorita can solo Falkner lol, there's plenty of factors to consider if a Pokemon does good or not, but most importantly it comes down to what the player wants to use.

For another example, and a personal of mine, Crabrawler. Yeah, it took forever to evolve, literally the final dungeon of the game, but I kept it bc I just liked having that crabby friend, and it was more satisfying when it finished off a stronger mon. In the final battle against Kukui, Crabominable one shot Snorlax, which then I later heard that this mon in particular caused many players trouble.

Also since this is the unpopular opinions thread, I want to add that Crabominable is based and ppl took the Crabrawler trailer too seriously
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In the underrated Pokemon thread on here, I saw someone praise Abomasnow, which similarly to Crabominable, has a lot of weaknesses. And it made me realize that with a lot of Pokemon, their success hinges on your desire to use it (to be patient with it and to choose a suitable position for it) and skill level (in-game knowledge, understanding how to maximize its role). If you don't lead with Abomasnow, and part of its role is taking down flying types, you're gonna struggle because every time you switch it in, it's gonna get chipped substantially. Alternatively, if you lead with it, it may be able to ice shard and get enough KOs to satisfy that role. Or maybe you should focus on its offensive capabilities elsewhere.

Now, I do think some Pokemon like say, Stunfisk, are close to unusably bad based on experience with them, and would assume the same with Kricketune and Lebyda, but I'm sure if I tried them out and was patient with them, I could make them a contributor in some capacity.



Speaking of Abomasnow, I was thinking about moves and abilities that varied in efficacy in an in-game playthrough vs in a Nuzlocke/competing against a fellow human

This was inspired by Guts. Guts obviously rules in a Nuzlocke and sometimes competitively, but without specific planning, it's surprisingly hard to take advantage of. You can't use it for route clearing because you're sustaining too much damage, and even in a boss fight, unless you're one shotting and outspeeding everything, the extra damage can be hard to play around.

Another one is obviously Pursuit for the human player. As the AI rarely switches out, you're not going to be able to take advantage of it beyond having a 40 BP dark move. Of course your enemy Pokemon stand to benefit greatly tho. I even got Pursuited in Crystal lmaooo. For the same reason, trapping abilities rarely benefit the human user, unless you're doing Perish Song hijynks

Then there's weather. Having ttar or Abomasnow rules, but the chip can affect your team without having leftovers healing, or having a team built around the weather. Against Red I was gonna set Rain in order to remove Hail chip and have 100% accurate Thunders, but kept having small amounts of trouble due to nerfing my own Typhlosion lol. Although that's a planning issue as much as anything.
 
Ironmage said:
Gen 8's anti-hazard content was overkill in general (boots, spikeless discount skarmory with no real skarmory). Gholdengo is the expected result of the pendulum swinging that far.
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Boots was a necessary evil due to the problems Pokémon that are 4x weak to Sneaky Pebbles had for four generations straight. Everything else listed here is completely understandable.

I didn't like Tinkaton bait too.
 
leafsaber47 said:
Gen VIII's Rapid Spin buff was overkill and definitely not needed. The base power bump is enough; they did not need a +1 Speed buff slapped onto it.
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I'm the other way about the buffs it got. I like the speed boost giving it even more utility (especially in singleplayer where hazards aren't really something you have to worry about), but it shouldn't have gotten a power boost. Rapid Spin is cool since it's a pure utility move, and those are at their most interesting when they deal negligible raw damage. Imagine if Nuzzle or Knock Off had base powers way higher than 20. They wouldn't be as interesting.
 
Yung Dramps said:
1737194064244.png

Souring on Sinnoh
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Austin-IN.gif

I know y'all ain't talking smack about the GOAT region, Sinnoh. :pip:

In all seriousness though, and that's a lot coming from me, Platinum is starting to show some wrinkles.

Not in the "omg, what a hag" way, but right now, in my opinion, it leans closer to Ocarina of Time.

I'll explain. Ocarina of Time needs no introduction, it's a generational game in every sense of the word, and it is recognized by many, including awards in an era when they actually evaluated games, as the game of the century.

More accurately, the game of last century.

If one were to play OoT in 2025, they would certainly recognize it as a masterpiece, but it just feels a bit... dated at this point. Mind you, I'm not talking about the graphics. For example, the warp points are extremely inconvenient.

Similarly, the best way to play Platinum nowadays is on an emulator so you can have easier access to QoL patches, and PkHex because IVs suck.

Granted, those could've been fixed by a remake, but... :facepalm:

Basically, what I'm saying is that as great as Platinum is, by now, it's more of a gold standard than an undisputed #1. Which is even more impressive tbh, there aren't a lot of games that can stand the test of time like this.

Platinum, and Emerald while I'm at it, have a LOT of lessons to teach to the newer games. When it comes to things like map design, they're still undefeated in this franchise.
Hell, Platinum still has the most iconic in-game team of all time, and unlike the Kanto games, it's not because of a lack of options early-game. But in terms of QoL, it has long been surpassed.

As for the last pages before this post... Man, I can't believe y'all still talking about Dexit. :totodiLUL:

But that's a topic for another post.
 
Volt-Ikazuchi said:
If one were to play OoT in 2025, they would certainly recognize it as a masterpiece, but it just feels a bit... dated at this point. Mind you, I'm not talking about the graphics. For example, the warp points are extremely inconvenient.

Similarly, the best way to play Platinum nowadays is on an emulator so you can have easier access to QoL patches, and PkHex because IVs suck.

Granted, those could've been fixed by a remake, but... :facepalm:
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Last year at around this time, I started playing the Gen 3 games on an emulator on my computer, because I was doing a challenge run with a friend and was more focused on the challenge aspect than a normal playthrough. Initially, it was just speedup and hacking in rare candies to meet the level caps, which was way more fun than I'd anticipated because I was able to appreciate movesets in a new way. Then, finding a romhack of Emerald with an improved dex and many small QoL improvements that kept all the parts of the game I liked.

In life, I think some technological advancements are good, it's nice to be able to heat up food easily with the microwave and not have to handwash clothes, but if everything you wanted was available at the push of a button, life kinda loses its luster because you aren't doing anything to achieve it. It's nice working hard and seeing it pay off. Idk, all the emulator stuff does make the games easier and more fun to play, but there were parts of the inefficiency that had their own charm. a lot of that is because of speedup and rare candies for a nuzlocke, which is different.

I still try to play every casual playthrough on cart. In part in hopes that one day I'll have a good friend to get drunk and play a real game, but also because I feel like there's a ritualistic element and unique energy that playing on the cart produces.

then again, it is nice not have to go into your box and select another repel every fucking time
 
Basedwell said:
In life, I think some technological advancements are good, it's nice to be able to heat up food easily with the microwave and not have to handwash clothes, but if everything you wanted was available at the push of a button, life kinda loses its luster because you aren't doing anything to achieve it. It's nice working hard and seeing it pay off. Idk, all the emulator stuff does make the games easier and more fun to play, but there were parts of the inefficiency that had their own charm. a lot of that is because of speedup and rare candies for a nuzlocke, which is different.
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I'm sorry, but that's a ridiculous take.

I mentioned IVs, which are a purely RNG-based mechanic that defines whether a not a mon will be complete garbage and that you can't interact with outside of breeding in earlier gens, which is its own can of worms.

You mentioned valuing the luster of actually earning things through effort in the same breath you talked about hacking in Rare Candies.

There's a world of difference there.
 
ant4456 said:
My eyes roll every time they release a new game and Knock Off isn't on every single physical Dark Type, and then people complain and groan about how "Dark Types are so bad now!!!"

Like, are we being fr?
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Tbh I think people got so used to certain moves like Knock Off and Toxic being on everything that they forgot the game wasn't like that for ages.

(Even bigger disconnect with the smogon community expecially when you consider that the official format hasnt had those for two generations already, as move portability while tecnically possible was not allowed in the competitive formats due to requiring the origin mark in gen 7 and then the "moveset wipe" of gen 8 in order to use a transferred pokemon)
 
At least now with Gen 9, the transfer system changes have finally brought coherence with simulator and cartridge play. Realistically there were just some mons with move sets that you never gonna see unless you got really really lucky on an event or, most likely, you just cheated it in. and yet you could expect to see them regularly frequently in Showdown. Now things are a bit more even in that regard. Of course NatDex exists too, but let's be honest, that's just a fan game masquerading as a format.
 
Worldie said:
Tbh I think people got so used to certain moves like Knock Off and Toxic being on everything that they forgot the game wasn't like that for ages.

(Even bigger disconnect with the smogon community expecially when you consider that the official format hasnt had those for two generations already, as move portability while tecnically possible was not allowed in the competitive formats due to requiring the origin mark in gen 7 and then the "moveset wipe" of gen 8 in order to use a transferred pokemon)
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I'm of the opposite mind about Toxic. The corporate format hasn't given me a good reason to forget the game was like that for ages. Knock off at least became strong and common much later.
 
ant4456 said:
My eyes roll every time they release a new game and Knock Off isn't on every single physical Dark Type, and then people complain and groan about how "Dark Types are so bad now!!!"

Like, are we being fr?
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Knock off, the problem is, GF could have just reverted the change. It was a fun niche utility move with very slight usage in 3/4/5. When Gen 6 took it from 20 BP to 65 AND added a 50% power buff, that's when it became mandatory. Revert it to the old BP, or just remove the 50% buff, and it would stop being a problem without needing a limited distribution.
Worldie said:
Tbh I think people got so used to certain moves like Knock Off and Toxic being on everything that they forgot the game wasn't like that for ages.

(Even bigger disconnect with the smogon community expecially when you consider that the official format hasnt had those for two generations already, as move portability while tecnically possible was not allowed in the competitive formats due to requiring the origin mark in gen 7 and then the "moveset wipe" of gen 8 in order to use a transferred pokemon)
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Toxic has always been near-universal. GF has just grown more and more anti-stall as the generations went on, until a benchmark move from Gen 1 is too powerful to have on most stall mons.
 
Volt-Ikazuchi said:
Austin-IN.gif

I know y'all ain't talking smack about the GOAT region, Sinnoh. :pip:

In all seriousness though, and that's a lot coming from me, Platinum is starting to show some wrinkles.

Not in the "omg, what a hag" way, but right now, in my opinion, it leans closer to Ocarina of Time.

I'll explain. Ocarina of Time needs no introduction, it's a generational game in every sense of the word, and it is recognized by many, including awards in an era when they actually evaluated games, as the game of the century.

More accurately, the game of last century.

If one were to play OoT in 2025, they would certainly recognize it as a masterpiece, but it just feels a bit... dated at this point. Mind you, I'm not talking about the graphics. For example, the warp points are extremely inconvenient.

Similarly, the best way to play Platinum nowadays is on an emulator so you can have easier access to QoL patches, and PkHex because IVs suck.

Granted, those could've been fixed by a remake, but... :facepalm:

Basically, what I'm saying is that as great as Platinum is, by now, it's more of a gold standard than an undisputed #1. Which is even more impressive tbh, there aren't a lot of games that can stand the test of time like this.

Platinum, and Emerald while I'm at it, have a LOT of lessons to teach to the newer games. When it comes to things like map design, they're still undefeated in this franchise.
Hell, Platinum still has the most iconic in-game team of all time, and unlike the Kanto games, it's not because of a lack of options early-game. But in terms of QoL, it has long been surpassed.

As for the last pages before this post... Man, I can't believe y'all still talking about Dexit. :totodiLUL:

But that's a topic for another post.
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Yeah this is pretty similar to the conclusion I would write. I think the Zelda comparison is interesting because nowadays it seems like the preferred pre-BoTW 3D games among hardcore fans are Majora's Mask and Wind Waker. These are games that maybe could be argued to be "worse" than OoT if you drop everything other than the most cold and clinical form of Zelda level design dissection, but they make up for it by having extremely strong, well-executed identities both visually and gameplay-wise. "Cartoony sea-faring adventure" and "sinister, apocalyptic dark fantasy on a time limit" are concepts nothing else in Zelda even attempts to replicate, whereas OoT already re-used a lot of old tropes and in turn would have its tropes re-used from how vastly influential it was.

Obviously it's not quite as stark, but a similar point can be made about Platinum and, say, the Unova and Alola games. It's an important game worth celebrating, but I can't help but feel that in many ways it has been surpassed and that a lot of it is disparate building blocks that never quite coalesce into the greater whole required to truly take it to that next level.
 
Bakugames said:
I never minded the toxic change because toxic being something everything learns always felt a bit like a gen 1 design leftover that never made sense. at least the wide movepools back then had some design sense (let normals cast various types, kaijus get beams and can swim), toxic is just... well just give it to everyone ig
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I've always interpreted it as a gameplay-first decision, though the fact that biology is fragile enough for water and oxygen toxicity to be real things doesn't harm it. Status effects matter, so they made sure that every team composition has some access to it in a straightforwardly effective fashion while the more exotic statuses or delivery methods belonged to the types specialized in them. An equivalent to gen 4 giving every type a serviceable physical and special STAB, if you will. Its removal then comes off as saying that status effects don't matter, which I feel is a fair reason to consider later iterations of battles to be worse.
 
Ironmage said:
I've always interpreted it as a gameplay-first decision, though the fact that biology is fragile enough for water and oxygen toxicity to be real things doesn't harm it. Status effects matter, so they made sure that every team composition has some access to it in a straightforwardly effective fashion while the more exotic statuses or delivery methods belonged to the types specialized in them. An equivalent to gen 4 giving every type a serviceable physical and special STAB, if you will. Its removal then comes off as saying that status effects don't matter, which I feel is a fair reason to consider later iterations of battles to be worse.
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im gonna be honest this sounds super silly and catastrophizing. status effects are very well distributed across types, and its not hard to catch a team member that can spread status completely by chance, let alone if youre doing it intentionally. and not every pokemon SHOULD have access to a status move, just like not every pokemon should have access to certain stab moves, coverage etc
 
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