Unpopular opinions

[Suspicious Derivative]

Well I guess I got Kalos on the brain because I have another take about it to share with everyone. Before I do so though, I have to admit that what I'm about to say is to an extent hypocritical, as this is a problem that I have contributed to, and very recently at that. With that said...

I'm starting to get tired about every discussion about XY devolving into moping about Z.

We get it already. XY had very obvious loose ends and teasers that built up to nothing. Things that were not quite finalized, even.

But at the stage we're at, it's really starting to get tiring. It seems like you just can no longer talk about Kalos in any form without someone going "If only Z had happened" and derailing the entire thing into a pity party. And again, I will fully admit I have made this exact mistake in very recent times: in the end, I kinda regret doing so. It feels like in the past few days ever since I found that Japanese game popularity poll that had XY insanely high up I've kinda woken up to the fact that there are people who stand by these games, who love them just the way they are. I myself am finally feeling the spirit to revisit these titles that I haven't had for months now. So for their sake, regardless of your own thoughts, I think we should collectively do exactly that. This region shouldn't be overshadowed by a game that never came out. It shouldn't be a question of what they could've been, what they should've been, what they might've been, but what they are.

I agree. After reading this, I have realized that I am also very tired of this discussion (which as you say, seems to always pop up when X/Y are being discussed). I find it especially annoying since I am among the players who really like X/Y (and one of the very few here on Smogon, from what it seems). Just like you, I am guilty of occasionally having gone into the topic of "what if Z had existed" when it comes to discussions about X/Y. Also, I don't think that "Z" was as needed as the fanbase in general seems to think. As said at another point quite recently, I thought X/Y were really great games, they didn’t need a follow-up game as much as many other games did. Either way, I agree with you. We really need to look at X/Y more regarding what they actually are, not what a potential follow-up game to them could have been.

A'ight, good. We clear. Gen 5 would benefit from a remake because those sprites were U G L Y.

People who desecrate sprite art by distorting it deserve to do no soft-reset solo Unown runs.

I disagree. My unpopular(?) opinion is that I liked the graphics of Gen 5. I think both the sprites and the general graphics of Gen 5 are excellent, way better than the graphics in Gen 4. I think people exaggerate when it comes to the "distortion" of the Gen 5 graphics, I have personally never found it to be that bad. I wonder if it is because people look at standalone sprites on the internet instead of looking at them in the actual games. For me, looking at them in the actual games feels like it gives a much better overall impression of them.

And I think that using an enlarged (and stretched?) image of an area where the camera is zoomed out by default is a really bad example in this case. It will pretty much look bad by default. The same thing would happen if you did it for Gen 4. So I decided to do it for Gen 4, here is the result:

It doesn’t look very good, obviously.

But if we look at Gen 5 and Gen 4 in their default sizes, I think they are both fine.

Gen 5 is excellent graphically, but Gen 4 (or at least Platinum) is great too.

Regarding Gen 5 remakes, I don't think they need to happen either. I don't want them to happen despite (or maybe because?) Gen 5 is my favorite. I feel that Gen 5 is fine just as it is, there's no need for a remake. It might sound strange, but I don’t want to see a remake of my favorite generation. Granted, I am not a huge fan of Pokémon remakes in general, so that’s another reason. I have more to say on this subject and I have a longer post in mind, but I'll save it for another time.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

And I think that using an enlarged (and stretched?) image of an area where the camera is zoomed out by default is a really bad example in this case. It will pretty much look bad by default. The same thing would happen if you did it for Gen 4. So I decided to do it for Gen 4, here is the result:

The difference being Gen 4 only zooms out on Stark Mountain (and it does look bad).

Gen 5? The camera is controlled by a drunken Lakitu.

Go to Castelia and find one street where the camera is normal. You ain't finding it. It's a recurring effect they do, every once in a while the game turns into mush because some fool messed with the camera again.

Matter of fact, the game starts with it!

Gen 5 can already look a lot better just by running it on an emulator at high resolution rather than the DS's small screen size.

Look at poor Juniper's face on the middle pic, look how they massacred my girl...

 

[Siggu]

In Gen V it looks like they had a lot of fun playing with the camera and they didn't care if the sprites looked squished as a result.

Not that it bothered me much back then - after all, I was playing it emulated so I couldn't know how much of it was the consequences of emulator (e.g. window resolution) and how much it was genuinely weird.

Regarding Gen 5 remakes, I don't think they need to happen either. I don't want them to happen despite (or maybe because?) Gen 5 is my favorite. I feel that Gen 5 is fine just as it is, there's no need for a remake. It might sound strange, but I don’t want to see a remake of my favorite generation.

And it's because of what I mentioned at the beginning of this post that I really do want a Gen V remake in the next console. Lone cartridges, without even the box, cost at least twice as much as a current game...

 

[Suspicious Derivative]

The difference being Gen 4 only zooms out on Stark Mountain (and it does look bad).

Gen 5? The camera is controlled by a drunken Lakitu.

Go to Castelia and find one street where the camera is normal. You ain't finding it. It's a recurring effect they do, every once in a while the game turns into mush because some fool messed with the camera again.

Matter of fact, the game starts with it!

Look at poor Juniper's face on the middle pic, look how they massacred my girl...

True. Now that I think back on it, Gen 5 does zoom out the camera a lot more than Gen 4.

However, I still disagree. I think the camera was fine in Gen 5. I especially liked what they did with Skyarrow Bridge, how the angle changed depending on where you were on the bridge. That was really cool.

While none of the camera angles in Castelia was "normal", I didn't really mind. I think that actually was a good thing. The dynamic camera angles really made it feel a lot more like a big city than what having a fixed camera at all times would have done. The same goes for some other areas with a zoomed out camera like Skyarrow Bridge or Black City/White Forest, it made the areas "feel" larger, so to say.

As for the opening scene, I don't really mind it either. I like how they played around with the 3D effect of the games there.

And it's because of what I mentioned at the beginning of this post that I really do want a Gen V remake in the next console. Lone cartridges, without even the box, cost at least twice as much as a current game...

I guess this is a fair point. Though I guess an alternative would be to re-release the Gen 5 games on the Switch (or a future system) instead of a remake. Or, if they do chose to make a Pokémon Anthology, it would allow everyone to experience all the generations again on the current system, though I still do not believe that will ever happen. And both alternatives would be difficult since they would have to go from two screens to one screen. Either way, I guess that if they do a Gen 5 remake, it will not be until many years from now. Which should give me enough time to be mentally prepared for it when it happens.

 

[Coronis]

And it's because of what I mentioned at the beginning of this post that I really do want a Gen V remake in the next console. Lone cartridges, without even the box, cost at least twice as much as a current game...

I should really sell some of my old games then..... I still have every main game back to Gen 2 and I think Yellow and Blue maybe.. despite only currently having a 3DS and a Switch. (some bastard stole my Wii at college)

 

[Nokocchi]

I should really sell some of my old games then..... I still have every main game back to Gen 2 and I think Yellow and Blue maybe.. despite only currently having a 3DS and a Switch. (some bastard stole my Wii at college)

I've had the owner of the local brick-and-mortar game shop tell me that the mainline Pokemon games never lower in value, they always get snatched up immediately regardless of gen or if their was a better third version of them. I also notice because any sales there than involve discounts for buying multiple games always excludes the mainline Pokemon titles(there are other things that are also excluded, but that is the only specifically-named series among them most of the time). HeartGold and SoulSilver in particular are the priciest games in the series, even as a loose cart without the box or Pokewalker.

 

[Yung Dramps]

Yeah this BW sprite thing seems entirely like a you problem, Volt. And that's perfectly fine, this is the thread for you problems after all.

Tbf looking at those screenshots it's probably more noticeable on emulator than original hardware where the DS resolution kinda obscures it

 

[qtrx]

Been telling people this is why it's great that the BDSP map is pretty much 1:1 (but not exactly) compared to DP. HMs are full of flavor for the most part as field moves, much better than some moronic NPC blocking me from going where I want for increasingly ridiculous reasons.

On the other hand...

Look at Cut. Look at Rock Smash. Look at Dive.

This is why people hate HMs, you got those sucktastic moves that you can't get rid of despite having the HM on you 24/7 and fail-safes to prevent people from softlocking the game by releasing anything with the HM.

Even allowing people to just use them straight out of the portable PC mons would make them much better.

I'm not exactly keen on the idea that you withdraw mons from storage on the fly, just to have them use an HM, and then stuff them back in. Seems to put more emphasis on the slave part in HM slave. :(

SwSh with its relearnable TRs gave me an idea a while back though. The game could keep a list of what field moves a mon has at any point learned. And every mon would retain the ability to use these moves, even when deleted from the moveset, in the overworld.

 

[ThatOneSpork]

SwSh with its relearnable TRs gave me an idea a while back though. The game could keep a list of what field moves a mon has at any point learned. And every mon would retain the ability to use these moves in the overworld, HMs included, even when deleted from the moveset.

I like this idea, almost like having them learn the move and remember it, instead of them just forgetting how to crush rocks or climb walls. The things HM's can do seem more like common sense, because all of the HM's are very basic actions. Cut, you just cut something. Rock Climb, you just climb rocks. Surf, they just ride the waves. This would make sense from a sense standpoint and also make it so that you would have to carry a pokemon that could learn it, instead of it just being an easy "I'll use this pokemon that is in my box and nowhere near me."

 

[Pikachu315111]

If we assume the Pokemon world to be real, the plots of main games are still not real in-universe, and mascot legends (or at least most of them) are either not real/mythological or heavily exaggerated in power. The world presented in main-game plots is gonna collapse into a fireball in 3.2 seconds lol.

Is this a response to someone?

"If we assume the Pokemon world to be real, the plots of main games are still not real in-universe"

Um, as far as we know hey are. Why wouldn't they be?

"mascot legends (or at least most of them) are either not real/mythological or heavily exaggerated in power"

Depends which ones are you talking about, but for the ones which were threatening the planet:
Kyogre & Groudon were about to flood/dry up the planet.
Dialga & Palkia were about to reset the universe.
Xerneas & Yveltal do have the power of immortal life & death destruction.
Necrozma DID absorb the light from the Pokemon World until the player got it back.

"The world presented in main-game plots is gonna collapse into a fireball in 3.2 seconds"

Why? Because these powerful Pokemon exist? Well usually these Pokemon are powerful enough & impossible to get that you normally don't have to worry about them. The games take place in a moment in time when a determined evil team (or misguided in some cases, or misled by an evil/insane leader) with the money, resources, and knowledge to awaken the Legendaries and try to control/use them. Luckily, or maybe guided by the hands of fate, there is a very skilled trainer who comes along to stops them & save the day.

Regarding Gen 5 remakes, I don't think they need to happen either. I don't want them to happen despite (or maybe because?) Gen 5 is my favorite. I feel that Gen 5 is fine just as it is, there's no need for a remake. It might sound strange, but I don’t want to see a remake of my favorite generation. Granted, I am not a huge fan of Pokémon remakes in general, so that’s another reason.

Then how about another sequel!

Black 3 & White 3 when GF?

Gen 5? The camera is controlled by a drunken Lakitu.

Go to Castelia and find one street where the camera is normal. You ain't finding it. It's a recurring effect they do, every once in a while the game turns into mush because some fool messed with the camera again.

Matter of fact, the game starts with it!

Or maybe instead of a remake do an updated re-release but do it in the style of Octopath Traveler.

Either way, I guess that if they do a Gen 5 remake, it will not be until many years from now.

At least not until the next Nintendo console (unless they decide to break tradition which is always an option for GF).

I'm not exactly keen on the idea that you withdraw mons from storage on the fly, just to have them use an HM, and then stuff them back in. Seems to put more emphasis on the slave part in HM slave. :(

I mean, for most mons it'll let the Pokemon see some sunlight instead of staying digitized in the PC for the remainder of their existence. Doubt BDSP is going to have PokeJobs or PokePelago where your PC Pokemon can go and do things (though admittedly I kind of stopped with the PokeJobs halfway through my Shield playthrough as I wasn't really planning on using any of the Pokemon I was sending out... I feel PokePelago probably had the better idea with what to do with PC Pokemon).

SwSh with its relearnable TRs gave me an idea a while back though. The game could keep a list of what field moves a mon has at any point learned. And every mon would retain the ability to use these moves, even when deleted from the moveset, in the overworld.

Or, when you come to an overworld obstacle that needs a HM, let you choose the HM, then choose the Pokemon in your party (or PC box), and have that Pokemon use the HM without needing to learn the HM.

 

[Adeleine]

"The world presented in main-game plots is gonna collapse into a fireball in 3.2 seconds"

Why? Because these powerful Pokemon exist? Well usually these Pokemon are powerful enough & impossible to get that you normally don't have to worry about them. The games take place in a moment in time when a determined evil team (or misguided in some cases, or misled by an evil/insane leader) with the money, resources, and knowledge to awaken the Legendaries and try to control/use them. Luckily, or maybe guided by the hands of fate, there is a very skilled trainer who comes along to stops them & save the day.

The more fun argument to explain in more detail is the literary perspective. Even with an in-universe perspective, Pokemon main plots share many very specific details between each other, like likely-false human stories do (think of flood narratives sharing an ark, an angry god, and releasing doves or such birds to assay water levels) and historical records tend to do less. Eight lesser thresholds precede a gauntlet of four intermediate thresholds and one final test. A regional professor kick-starts the journey. That young children are regularly sent "into the world" with dangerous supernatural creatures at all.

Yes, you could claim even vastly distanced regions have similar structures to explain the above. That is at least plausible. Other similarities, though, really stretch the claim that these plots are independent, factual descriptions. A world-threatening creature has one climactic battle with a trainer, usually after getting a legendary-specific MacGuffin, and it is safely captured. One dominant "evil team" organization threatens society. The protagonist has one primary rival of similar age they meet even before they set off on their journey. The protagonist only lives with their mom and maybe some Pokemon. The protagonist is a teenager starting in a quiet town taking their first journey as a Pokemon trainer. What are the odds that zero out of eight+ world savior trainers have no siblings? Are teenagers? Aren't already established aces? Etc.

The plots are also very "clean", and real histories tend to be very tangled. The evil team always loses. The world-threatening creatures are safely captured. Times before and after the central protagonist's journey are not given much importance. Only a few actors are really involved in major events. Additionally, certain dex entries, like Magcargo and its Earth-destroying temperature, show us that at least some information in the game is storytelling and not true.

There are plenty of feasibility arguments too, like "how can someone go from newbie to champion-destroyer with no visible aging to indicate enormous time spent training" and "what are the odds teenager comes out ahead over world-destroying beast 8+ times in a row". They tend to be messier, though, imo.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Or maybe instead of a remake do an updated re-release but do it in the style of Octopath Traveler.

H-How is that not a remake?

 

[Pikachu315111]

Pokemon main plots share many very specific details between each other, like likely-false human stories do (think of flood narratives sharing an ark, an angry god, and releasing doves or such birds to assay water levels) and historical records tend to do less. Eight lesser thresholds precede a gauntlet of four intermediate thresholds and one final test. A regional professor kick-starts the journey. That young children are regularly sent "into the world" with dangerous supernatural creatures at all.

Yes, you could claim even vastly distanced regions have similar structures to explain the above. That is at least plausible. Other similarities, though, really stretch the claim that these plots are independent, factual descriptions. A world-threatening creature has one climactic battle with a trainer, usually after getting a legendary-specific MacGuffin, and it is safely captured. One dominant "evil team" organization threatens society. The protagonist has one primary rival of similar age they meet even before they set off on their journey. The protagonist only lives with their mom and maybe some Pokemon. The protagonist is a teenager starting in a quiet town taking their first journey as a Pokemon trainer. What are the odds that zero out of eight+ world savior trainers have no siblings? Are teenagers? Aren't already established aces? Etc.

The plots are also very "clean", and real histories tend to be very tangled. The evil team always loses. The world-threatening creatures are safely captured. Times before and after the central protagonist's journey are not given much importance. Only a few actors are really involved in major events. Additionally, certain dex entries, like Magcargo and its Earth-destroying temperature, show us that at least some information in the game is storytelling and not true.

There are plenty of feasibility arguments too, like "how can someone go from newbie to champion-destroyer with no visible aging to indicate enormous time spent training" and "what are the odds teenager comes out ahead over world-destroying beast 8+ times in a row". They tend to be messier, though, imo.

Yeah, I think you're putting too much thought into it. Pokemon isn't designed to be a grand fantasy epic with literary tropes & deeper meanings. No, it's designed as a fun monster battling game with a story mode where you use these monsters to save the day from bad people trying to abuse the power of a god... which you can then capture & use before going on to prove your the strongest trainer in the game. While you certainly can pull some literary tropes and deeper meaning from Pokemon, suggesting the game's story didn't happen because of its use of many tropes doesn't make sense.

• Eight lesser thresholds/four intermediate thresholds/one final test: So you're saying because there's standardized leagues is one reason the story's didn't happen in the Pokemon world? First off, are you also suggesting the Leagues don't exist then? Also, in real life many sports have standardized leagues, you're suggesting they don't exist?
• A Professor kick-starts the journey: The Professors are the ones that give out the Starters or lead into you getting your Starter. In addition the Professor likely trusts you and your Rival(s) with the Starters because you've already shown promise to them in one way or another. Sometimes this is because the Professor knows you & sometimes because they seen how you take care of yourselves in a Pokemon battle.
• Children regularly sent "into the world" with dangerous creatures: Don't confuse the special treatment the player & rivals get (or what the anime states) to being the norm. As I already said, player and rival have proven to the Professor they can handle themselves so likely have special permission. The other younger trainers you see like Youngsters, Lasses, Tuber Kids, etc. are usually found either in early routes where Pokemon are weak or in populated areas where they likely life or grown-ups are nearby. Heck, throughout your adventure grown-ups are all over the place. And yeah, yeah, Pokemon are elemental monsters... which have been tamed or easily tamable and now storable in pocket sized balls. And once again, if you're saying this is a story because Pokemon are dangerous creatures children are freely allowed to have, are you thus saying the "real" Pokemon world doesn't have the Pokemon so tamable or at least don't allow children to have even the small weak ones as pets?
• World threatening creature/Climatic battle/One evil team: Hate to bring the darker parts of real life into this, but how is this different from say a tyrannical political party taking over their country's military & resources (evil team), using said resources to build vehicle and weapons to use to help them take over other countries (world threatening "creature"), and in the end are defeated by countries wanting peace with their usually being final conflicts that end the whole war (Climatic Battle). Man, the World Wars, Revolutionary War, & Civil War sounded like they sucked... good they didn't happen because they use a lot of literary tropes.
• Protag living with mom/In peaceful rural town: Well, the player has to come from somewhere. And some players are originally from elsewhere and bigger cities. As for the mom thing, that's due to the real life experience of GF staff; Japan culture is very traditional with the father being a hard working salary man and the wife being a homemaker and raising the children. This means the father really isn't around as often; it's more of a cultural reflection than an element of a "hero story".
• No siblings: I'll give you that's a bit odd, though I also say it isn't an impossibility; it's a silly reason to say it proves these story aren't true in the Pokemon world. Plus the rivals sometimes have had siblings so it's not like siblings aren't a thing that exists.
• Are teenagers: I just see that more of a result of the evil team being so focused on avoiding the law and adults in power that they weren't paying attention to the teenager who just so happen to stumble onto one of their operations.
• Established ace: Well who are you expecting to save the world, Youngster Joey and his Rattata?
• Plots are "clean"/Evil team always loses/Things before & after not given much important: From the player's point of view who is still a child. I'm pretty sure the adults involved have a TON of cleaning-up to do. As for evil teams losing, *points to previous comment about evil team*; also, note that's just for the timelines WE play, according to USUM there are timelines where the player doesn't exist and the villain team wins. And things before & after the main story not having much importance is more of a game limitation, the game is only telling what has happened at that moment in time. But sequels games certainly show us the aftermath of things: Gen II for Gen I, B2W2 for BW, and Gen VII had a few characters from previous games like Dexio, Sina, Red & Blue who further show the change of time.

"You didn't address some of the points / Some of your points aren't that strong"

Because for some things you're just going to have to accept the MST3K mantra & that these are simple video games. The Legendary is safely caught (though you don't have to if you don't want to in many cases) cause the player is a talented trainer. Not that many "characters" because the game itself only focuses on the characters that matter. Dex descriptions are BS mostly because this is a fantasy world and GF just want to make the Pokemon sound strong without putting much thought into things sometimes.

The Pokemon world doesn't exist. Therefore, whatever the games show us is the history of that world unless the games themselves tell us a story they tell within the narrative isn't real or just myths (like the tales in the Canalave Library). Because, if the games are telling a story set in the "fictional" Pokemon world... then what is the "real" Pokemon world like and how does it differ from the fictional one. Why are we being told tales from a fictional Pokemon world and not the real one?

H-How is that not a remake?

I more meant not a traditional remake (like what HGSS was to GSC & ORAS was to RSE), sorry I misspoke. Just like how seemingly BDSP are 1:1 remakes with DPPt but instead using a different art style, I'm suggesting that with people not wanting a major remake of Gen V they could just do that with it instead but experiment with a different art style which still matches with the games feel. Then we can also have a Pokemon Legend: Kyurem and finally see what the Original Dragon looks like.

 

[pokemon4eva]

Panpour is... not that good in Black and White. Sure, it murders everything once you get Scald, but that means you're babying it through about 10 levels.

I dunno, early Scald is good to have, and Panpour is the best early Water option if you didn't pick Oshawott. First BW playthrough I used him and was pretty good.

So after thinking about it for a while I've come to a pretty woke conclusion: Lysandre is the only decent character in all of XY

Don't get it twisted, he's still got some obvious problems. His actual boss fights are painfully underwhelming, the rest of his organization are jokes and his writing is about as subtle as an atom bomb. But in spite of those flaws, he's still the only character who actually felt like they had any sort of pulse or unique edge put into them by the writers and developers. He's a consistent presence all throughout the game, he's genuinely entertaining and memorable in spite of some of the aforementioned writing problems (for instance, his famous "Why are you crying? Pokemon" scene), don't forget actually alright battle animations, especially in the last one, as well as his killer battle theme, one of XY's best which so elegantly captures his genocidal god complex. And in the end... What does he really have for competition? The rivals who all have the charisma and development of a chair leg? The gym leaders who are barely more plot relevant than their Game Boy-era counterparts? AZ and Malva, who they completely and utterly failed to capitalize on despite their backgrounds having heaps of story potential? My point is that, more than anyone else in this dreadful cast, there is something there, which explains why he got it pretty freakin good in both the anime and the Pokemon Adventures manga. It's ironic considering his plan that he feels like one of the sole beacons of life when juxtaposed against the failures of recurring characters XY is mired with.

I'd say AZ was the most interesting character of Kalos and I wished the game focused more on him. Even Adventures, where its role it's pretty much the same, spices up his final encounter to something more meaningful. Oh and the anime just doesn't even include him, yeah I'm still salty about it...Also, I think his USUM remix represents Lysandre's character much better than his original theme, with the frentic, chaotic pace simbolizing its genocidal delusions of beauty.

I'm also with the popular opinion that XY has the most wasted potential of all main games. To quote a youtuber: "you had kings, wars, Pokemon, giant weapons of mass destruction and fanservice for nostalgia fanboys, how tf do you screw up with that formula?!" Every main game starting with gen 5 has tried to shake up the formula and setting a bit: BW with its endgame where the villains are the final boss for a change, SM with the Island Challenge and SwSh with the Galarian Championship/Tournament. All except XY, and coming after gen 5, was pretty disappointing to me.

Now that we're talking about XY, there was this vid of TyranitarTube where he was ranting how pokemon games' decline, but the thing is that he went waaaaaaay too easy with XY in comparison of SM. He also released vids about what sucks about gen 8 and gen 7, but not one for Gen 6, which many agree it's where the decline began. Like, if you're trying to be analytical at least hide your bias....

 

[Yung Dramps]

Now that we're talking about XY, there was this vid of TyranitarTube where he was ranting how pokemon games' decline, but the thing is that he went waaaaaaay too easy with XY in comparison of SM. He also released vids about what sucks about gen 8 and gen 7, but not one for Gen 6, which many agree it's where the decline began. Like, if you're trying to be analytical at least hide your bias....

This is kinda getting a little off-topic but I just gotta agree with you here. It blows my mind that there are people out there (albeit not many) who think Gen 7 and 8 represent a prolonged period of decline for the series only to turn around and say Gen 6 was fine and not part of this declining phase. That game basically started every single trend people who hate the 3D era complain about and oftentimes exemplified the worst cases of said trends. Small quantities of new Pokemon? Check. A deluge of Kanto pandering? Check. Meagre postgames? Check.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

The thing with Gen 6 is that it's much easier to forgive Gen 6's flaws because it was the first transition to 3D for the series. Given this was Game Freak's first entry into making 3D Pokemon games, it's expected that there are some hiccups. And for their first step into the 3D development realm, Gen 6 was not a bad effort. Yes, compared to Gen 5 and *especially* Gen 4 it was a step down, but it had ambition to it, and that's what counts.

X and Y may have had flaws, but they did a lot of things that were great. Pokemon Amie was a great way to play with Pokemon and took advantage of 3D models really well, the region was fantastic, the Pokedex diversity was awesome, PR Videos were fun, the multiplayer and the Player Search System and Friend Safari were all amazing and made the multiplayer aspect fantastic, and the routes had a lot of fun things going for them like the Rhyhorn/Mamoswine riding, the caves were gorgeous, the region is beautiful, etc. Plus roller skating, 8-directional movement, Lumiose City! Sure the game was stupidly easy and the story was meh, and it wasn't everything it could be, but for all those flaws, there was a lot of good to say about X and Y. Upon recently replaying it I've grown to appreciate it more and more. ORAS was also a great game because while the lack of Battle Frontier was apparent, it made up for that with a lot of other great things: mostly everything else was intact, there were upgraded E4 rematch teams, the Delta Episode was a fun post-game story, and contests were better than ever. And can we not forget riding Latias/Latios across Hoenn and seeing all of Hoenn from a sky view? Plus all the Mirage Islands to find more Gen 4+ Pokemon in them.

Was Gen 6 perfect? No. Was it a step down from BW2? Yes. But here's the thing: it was the first entry into the mainline series that went 3D, and it was a given that yes, given this was GF's first big step into making 3D mainline games, there would be some hiccups. That's why in a sense, even though it was a step down, Gen 6 was forgivable. They were just getting into 3D development and were not fully comfortable with 3D yet, so it was a given there would be some flaws. And especially because for all of its flaws, Gen 6 still did a ton of things that were great. And it still had ambition in it, and it still showed: Gen 6's flaws was really a matter of Game Freak biting off more than they could chew, but you could tell they put a lot of heart into it.

The problem is that with Gens 7 and 8, we should be expecting improvement from Gen 6. And that's why people are much harsher on them than Gen 6. We have not seen any sign of improvement or growth from Gen 6! Gen 7 did some things right for sure, but compared to Gen 6, it failed to fully build on the foundation that Gen 6 did. As I said, Gen 6 laid out a foundation for 3D Pokemon. And it did fine for their first entry into 3D, and for that circumstance, it was a success. Gen 7 and Gen 8, have, in some aspects, been even worse than XY and ORAS, and Game Freak has still shown a lack of competence with 3D development. The rushjob of the base game of Sword and Shield was embarassing. Gen 7 was good, but it was in some ways a step down from Gen 6 and again, it also failed to refine and build on X and Y's groundwork. They clearly didn't give it their all here. They haven't improved significantly since Gen 6, when we should be expecting something better than what Gen 6 delivered. The models are still the same basic models that we saw in Gen 6. No, we should not be seeing the same models in Gens 7 and 8 that we did in Gen 6, the models should be better and more expressive. We should be expecting them to be more comfortable with 3D development, and in turn have even better content than what we saw in XY and ORAS. They still haven't shown that, and that's why people are much harsher on them than Gen 6: it's much less easy to forgive Gens 7 and 8 because those gens are a point where we really should be expecting refinement, expansion, and polish from the groundwork and foundation that Gen 6 laid out, but no, that's not the case unfortunately.

Now granted, the upcoming Legends: Arceus has given me some hope. I do see some legitimate ambition and experimentation coming out of that game, and it seems like it truly is taking 3D Pokemon and advancing it another step forward, even though there might be some hiccups. The models this time look legit better than they ever did, and the full on 3D world is great, and the combat looks to be much improved from past games. I still cannot form a solid opinion on it of course, but after Crown Tundra and Isle of Armor really showed that Game Freak does still have it, and they can deliver something great, I'm more hopeful Legends Arceus will be a true improvement and step up from the groundwork that X and Y laid out, and in some ways, take what Sword and Shield's DLC did and make it even better. So in that sense, while the past few gens do have their problems, the newer stuff does make me cautiously optimistic, personally. Plus BDSP using a minimalist artstyle makes me hopeful they won't taint or ruin DPP Sinnoh in terms of content like many initially feared.

 

[Fusion Flare]

Depends which ones are you talking about, but for the ones which were threatening the planet:
Kyogre & Groudon were about to flood/dry up the planet.
Dialga & Palkia were about to reset the universe.
Xerneas & Yveltal do have the power of immortal life & death destruction.
Necrozma DID absorb the light from the Pokemon World until the player got it back.

I mean don’t forget eternatus, who was going to ...

checks notes

make kaiju world while warping space time in a state of power overload or whatever crackpot shit happened in the climax of Swsh

 

[Bakugames]

The models are still the same basic models that we saw in Gen 6. No, we should not be seeing the same models in Gens 7 and 8 that we did in Gen 6, the models should be better and more expressive.

This isn't @ you in specific, but we really need to stop saying "change the models" and start saying "change/add animations". The models are completely fine, good even, the main problem is the lack of animations, or how some animations are made.

Also, the colors of the 3ds models aren't washed out, rather, the sprites are too bright. You may prefer the sprite look, and that's completely fine, but it is not the canon look for the pokémon, and was one of the main inconsistencies of the sprites

 

[Sonikku A]

This isn't @ you in specific, but we really need to stop saying "change the models" and start saying "change/add animations". The models are completely fine, good even, the main problem is the lack of animations, or how some animations are made.

Also, the colors of the 3ds models aren't washed out, rather, the sprites are too bright. You may prefer the sprite look, and that's completely fine, but it is not the canon look for the pokémon, and was one of the main inconsistencies of the sprites

The anime has distorted a looooot of Gen 1/2 designs in dev, and that ended up becoming the norm after Gen 3 too (cough, Chikorita not being yellow, cough)
That said, not a fan of Sugimori suddenly making things stiffer and washed out after 3. I still wonder why he did it. Though attacking the models for color when...it's entirely his fault is pretty sad

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

This isn't @ you in specific, but we really need to stop saying "change the models" and start saying "change/add animations". The models are completely fine, good even, the main problem is the lack of animations, or how some animations are made.

Also, the colors of the 3ds models aren't washed out, rather, the sprites are too bright. You may prefer the sprite look, and that's completely fine, but it is not the canon look for the pokémon, and was one of the main inconsistencies of the sprites

Oh on that point, I totally agree. Perhaps I didn't express myself well enough, but I think the model textures are fine and all and they look good to the eye.

The issue is that in every game, they are always allocated to the exact same "default, idle boring pose" in each and every game in the midst of battle. XY did a good job setting up the models and they looked great! A little boring, but that's fine given they had to model 721 Pokemon and they still gave them some damn good animations, some for Battle, some for Amie, and vice versa. But then come ORAS, and they have the same boring default pose. Sun and Moon? Same boring default pose. USUM? Same pose. Let's Go? Same pose! Sword and Shield? Same default pose (I will say the textures and colors look a lot cleaner and nicer so I'll give them credit for that). It's starting to get tiring at that point, except with the new Gen 8 mons. Not to mention every mon in Sword and Shield only has *two* attack animations, whereas mons in X and Y had around 4-5 attack animations, which was great. Goodra for example had around four, one flipping its horns, another swinging its tail, another for tackling, and vice versa. And Camp reuses a lot of Amie animations too. At this point, there really ought to be more than that.

With the sprites, even before Gen 5, they showed off the personality and expression, and each game had the sprite show off a different aspect of each Pokemon. Like in GSC, a Pokemon would have a different sprite in Gold, another one in Silver, and another one in Crystal (in this case animated even), and each one showed off a different side of the personality of the Pokemon. Same with DPP and HGSS. Every Pokemon had a different sprite in DP, then another one in HGSS, and in some cases even another new sprite for Platinum to show off the personality of the Pokemon in different aspects. Same goes in some extent to RS and FRLG.

You're right, they should "change/add animations" for every Pokemon, and perhaps in every game. Like imagine if a Pokemon in one game in a gen had their model in one battle-ready pose, and in another, in battle they show off in another kind of pose. And then there were new animations added to Camp or Amie or whatever interactive feature they have (which frankly is one of my favorite parts of the newer games, ngl), that showed off the Pokemon's personality even more. The models are fine, but it would be ideal to experiment more with them to make their animations more dynamic. Put them in different poses throughout each game in the battles. Show off personality! That's where it really matters: there needs to be expression and personality. Like the boring default pose is fine for looking at them in the PC/party or in the Pokedex, but when it comes to personality and expression, give them better poses or something too. In that sense the personality of each Pokemon can shine more. Perhaps that gets my point across better.

They do get some things right though, like with the signature Z-moves where Decidueye, Incineroar, and Primarina had reallly good animations for their sig Z-moves. Or the G-Max moves of Rillaboom, Cinderace, and Inteleon. Those were good! And those little fidgets they make in X and Y were pretty good too! I think they *can* make incredibly dynamic animations and moves if they put in the work: they just have to show that off and put in that work a good deal more. Hopefully that explains my point with that better.

 

[Bakugames]

I totally get what you're saying, and I agree. I think since they already did a dexit, they should just do one again and use it to add some extra animations for pokemon. I think the main changes should be:

1. Engaging idle loop. Nothing too big, because too much exaggerated movement can look pretty bad

2. Add one animation to the idle loop (like a charmander would look around or look at its tail). Maybe switch between them at every idle loop. Make sure to space them out though so it doesnt look too unnatural

3. Maybe something with attacks? Idk how they would make a system of attack animations different from the current one that doesnt also exponentialy increases the workload, so i would mind if the move animations stayed the same

 

[Coronis]

Obviously they can have more polish wrt the animations and such but sadly, I don’t see things improving too much in the near future. All this boils back down to the release schedule that they seem to be forced to follow (a new main game every 2 years). With Pokemon being the massive juggernaut that it is I can’t see that changing unfortunately but at least now with the outside development for BDSP they are trying to mitigate it somewhat and hopefully it will pay dividends with Arceus and the eventual next generation. But really they’re doing the best they can with what limited time they have.

 

[Suspicious Derivative]

Then how about another sequel!

Black 3 & White 3 when GF?

Yes please. When it comes to Gen 5, I'd much rather see another sequel than a remake.

Regarding the decline of the series after Gen 5 and how Gen 6 doesn't get criticized for it as much as Gen 7/8, I mostly agree with what ScraftyIsTheBest said. Personally, I feel that the Gen 6 games sort of made a promise to us players, which was: "This is just the beginning of the 3D era for Pokémon games, it will get much better in future games!" But that never happened. Instead, I think the games which got released after Gen 6 were worse instead of better. While X/Y and Gen 6 were the games which promised that things would get better later on, I don't think they should get criticised for it because they aren't the games that broke that promise. No, it is the games that were released after them that broke the promise, and because if that, I think they are the ones who deserve more criticism.

Not sure if this is unpopular, and I have said it before, but I really like Gen 6. While it was not as great as Gen 5, I still enjoyed it a lot and it is my second favorite generation. I feel that X/Y and OR/AS were excellent in terms of gameplay. They aren't perfect, but I think their flaws are mostly minor things that I'm willing to look past. In comparison, S/M felt like a bigger step down. They have several really serious gameplay issues, the most notable for me is the lack of good training spots which it feels like they don't get enough criticism for. US/UM were a step up from S/M, but they were not on the same level as the Gen 6 games. I haven't played LGP/E so no opinion there, but it doesn't seem like they are considerably great when it comes to what I consider important in Pokémon. S/S have some obvious issues as everyone knows. That said, I still liked both S/M, US/UM and S/S. While I feel that the series has mostly been going downhill recently (especially after Gen 6), it is not like it has gone from the top to the bottom in an instant. It has been more of a slow decline. Unfortunately, I am worried that this will continue in the future, I guess that's one reason as for why I'm no longer looking forward to new Pokémon games as much as I have done in the past.

 

[Sceptilian70]

I personally considered Kalos to be a bit less intriguing in most regards, like having to complete the National Dex to get the Shiny Charm (Yeah, I only ever care about Shinies). I also felt like the Looker postgame was kind of tedious and annoying to do, and that Kalos felt too small in comparison to the vast islands of Alola and the continent of Galar. Though it was the first 3D game, it wasn't the first game ever. They had experience making 5 generations and multiple remakes.

ORAS, in my opinion, was quite good, though I am biased, as the original Pokemon Ruby was my first game. Don't hate on me though, the only reason we have remakes is because people had fun with it as their first Gen. ORAS fixed the EXP problem I thought was annoying in RSE, and made grinding a bit easier. It also just felt more vast and explorable, like adding the Soaring feature with the Eon Flute.

USUM (Yeah I'm skipping SM I haven't played them) were a BIG step up from Gen 6, both of the pairs. Alola had awesome Pokemon, good Shiny Hunting, and were just in general a lot of fun. Trainer customization was way better than in Gen 6, and the Ultra Beasts were fun to find and catch. The Pokedex was also much easier to complete. I found it to be more fun, and also a bit better in difficulty. It took 50-75 hours to beat Alola, but it only took 20 to beat Kalos (or less) and 30 to beat Hoenn. I also found it great the Legends were more easily obtainable. Also, though I will admit that there weren't many good areas to train at, none of the games really have any easy areas to train in. Kalos doesn't need it anyway, I beat the league with a team multiple levels higher than theirs, and I didn't ever stop to grind.

But hey, I'm biased, so don't hate me.

 

[TheReturnerOfJuly]

I personally considered Kalos to be a bit less intriguing in most regards, like having to complete the National Dex to get the Shiny Charm (Yeah, I only ever care about Shinies). I also felt like the Looker postgame was kind of tedious and annoying to do, and that Kalos felt too small in comparison to the vast islands of Alola and the continent of Galar. Though it was the first 3D game, it wasn't the first game ever. They had experience making 5 generations and multiple remakes.

ORAS, in my opinion, was quite good, though I am biased, as it was my first game. Don't hate on me though, the only reason we have remakes is because people had fun with it as their first Gen. ORAS fixed the EXP problem I thought was annoying in RSE, and made grinding a bit easier. It also just felt more vast and explorable, like adding the Soaring feature with the Eon Flute.

USUM (Yeah I'm skipping SM I haven't played them) were a BIG step up from Gen 6, both of the pairs. Alola had awesome Pokemon, good Shiny Hunting, and were just in general a lot of fun. Trainer customization was way better than in Gen 6, and the Ultra Beasts were fun to find and catch. The Pokedex was also much easier to complete. I found it to be more fun, and also a bit better in difficulty. It took 50-75 hours to beat Alola, but it only took 20 to beat Kalos (or less) and 30 to beat Hoenn. I also found it great the Legends were more easily obtainable. Also, though I will admit that there weren't many good areas to train at, none of the games really have any easy areas to train in. Kalos doesn't need it anyway, I beat the league with a team multiple levels higher than theirs, and I didn't ever stop to grind.

But hey, I'm biased, so don't hate me.

I've played M, and it's pretty fun. My tacky 3DS can't run the best, but the cutscenes were at least cool, and it was pretty fun gameplay wise. I still like gen 4 better, but SM is still fun. Isn't the best, but I'd still suggest you play it. Also, the pokemon and all the features were fun. Even Poke-Pelago was still a bit enjoyable. Alola is linear, but it's a bit more story driven, so it's slightly understandable. And anyways...

Happy April Fools, sus man.