Unpopular opinions

Celever

i am town
is a Community Contributor
Uhh... *Looks at the Trainer Card I made for the Trainer Card thread*

... Hehe, at least the bottom row aren't popular picks?




Sadly I think the reason Steel is under-looked is due to being a defensive Typing and not really having the offense Moves that it could use to spring itself to the forefront. Like Body Press should have been a Steel-type move or Steel-types should get a clone of of it (call it something like "Shield Bash"). Steel also needs a Slash copy ("Razor Blade" sounds appropriate enough), we got plenty of Pokemon with metal (or at least metal-like) blades but no Steel-type move to go with it (infact I'm surprised we still haven't gotten one when they introduced the Pawniard family, Honedge family, Kartana, or Galarian Meowth; Metal Claw ain't cutting it, GF). Finally, while Iron Head is nice, I also think it could use a generic "strong arm" attack like maybe a copy of Hammer Arm ("Iron Hammer", the Speed decrease not only shouldn't bother most Steel-types but could help them on Trick Room teams).
In fairness you just described Smart Strike. It has deceptively wide distribution, especially for a Steel-Type attack that isn’t Metal Claw, but Steel-Type’s fairly poor offensive prowess means it’s often still not the best option (unless you’re Kartana looking for STAB) because most non-Steel-Type Pokémon prefer other coverage and most Steel-Type Pokémon get Iron Head. Gunfisk just suffers with neither.
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
is a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
In fairness you just described Smart Strike.
You don't get it from the English name, but Smart Strike is a horn-based move; It's Japanese name is "Smart Horn". So the only Steel-types that get it are Aggron, Excadrill, Escavalier (prevo had a horn), Cobalion, & Celesteela. Meanwhile, if they made a Steel-type Slash (or preferably Leaf Blade for the higher Power) then Alolan Sandshrew family, Galarian Meowth family, Scyther family, Skarmory, Mawile, Lairon & Aggron, Empoleon, Excadrill, Escavalier, Ferrothorn, Pawniard family, Durant, Cobalion, Genesect, Honedge family, Klefki, Solgaleo, Kartana, Corviknight, & Zacian would get in addition with other Pokemon that can learn Slash & its variants.
 

Celever

i am town
is a Community Contributor
You don't get it from the English name, but Smart Strike is a horn-based move; It's Japanese name is "Smart Horn". So the only Steel-types that get it are Aggron, Excadrill, Escavalier (prevo had a horn), Cobalion, & Celesteela. Meanwhile, if they made a Steel-type Slash (or preferably Leaf Blade for the higher Power) then Alolan Sandshrew family, Galarian Meowth family, Scyther family, Skarmory, Mawile, Lairon & Aggron, Empoleon, Excadrill, Escavalier, Ferrothorn, Pawniard family, Durant, Cobalion, Genesect, Honedge family, Klefki, Solgaleo, Kartana, Corviknight, & Zacian would get in addition with other Pokemon that can learn Slash & its variants.
Fair enough, but there's still a problem with this:
Prefer and Learn Iron Head: Sandslash-A, Perrserker, Scizor, Skarmory, Mawile, Excadrill, Escavalier, Pawniard, Durant, Cobalion, Genesect, Aegislash, Solgaleo, Corviknight
Prefer and Learn Gyro Ball: Perrserker (sometimes), Ferrothorn
Prefer and Learn Heavy Slam: Aggron
Prefer and Learn Behemoth Blade: Zacian-C (not Steel-Type when not Zacian-C)
Prefer and Learn Smart Strike: Kartana (this would perhaps take a slash variant for higher crit rate over perfect accuracy in singles... in doubles though, it would stick with Smart Strike).
Special Attacker: Empoleon

So I don't really see what problem you think this move solves? Ironically, one of two Pokémon that need help with their Steel-Type STAB you didn't list (the aforementioned Gunfisk) while Klefki isn't intended to be an attack and would honestly prefer Foul Play or Play Rough over this move regardless. This is an inferior move to what we already have :P That's why I referenced Smart Strike, since the role that a move like this would play is to make Steel-Type coverage more prolific.
 
Prefer and Learn Smart Strike: Kartana (this would perhaps take a slash variant for higher crit rate over perfect accuracy in singles... in doubles though, it would stick with Smart Strike).
I think I've brought this up in movepool oddities, but the fact that Kartana learns Smart Strike at all is just stupid. It has no horn to speak of, and its main gimmick is that it's really good at slashing and cutting, not stabbing.

The worst part is that there was no reason for this to be a thing. Smart Strike is the only Steel-type attack Kartana can learn, and it learns it through TM. Do you know what else was a TM in Gen 7? Steel Wing. Same base power. Trades a bit of accuracy for a chance to raise Defense. Strictly in terms of gameplay, the two are basically interchangeable. But while Smart Strike's flavor doesn't fit Kartana in the slightest, Steel Wing would have been a great fit. It's somewhat of a slash (more of a slash than Smart Strike, anyway) and it would have been a cool reference to the two most iconic things made from folded paper: airplanes and cranes.
 
The sequels weren't that bad as standalone movies. Put them together and The Last Jedi ruins everything.

Anyways, back to pokemon.
Team Skull was the best evil team because its realistic. They don't want to stir up some ancient legendary and destroy the world, their just a regular gang. Their leader was hit with GOLF CLUBS for messing up, which leads to fear and blaming himself everytime he loses or messes up. So um, yeah.
 
The sequels weren't that bad as standalone movies. Put them together and The Last Jedi ruins everything.

Anyways, back to pokemon.
Team Skull was the best evil team because its realistic. They don't want to stir up some ancient legendary and destroy the world, their just a regular gang. Their leader was hit with GOLF CLUBS for messing up, which leads to fear and blaming himself everytime he loses or messes up. So um, yeah.
Wait, when was this about Star Wars lol (a take I half agree though)

Team SKull is also my fav, not just because they are realistic but how well executed. The constant loser-vibe these guys give (their attempts to screw over the trainers, the decaying state of Po Town, etc.) since they're trainer who failed the Island challenge, and manage to be kinda sympathetic in that aspect. They adore yet fear their boss, Guzma, which presents a larger challenge to the player in comparison of the other grunts, his all out offensive team really reflect "he beats you down, and beats you down, and never lets up".

Captura.PNG


But by the end of the day he also sees himself as a failure, which also expresses in his tantrums when you beat him. Honestly, they did a fantastic job with Team Skull, I'd just wish Plumeria received more personality, a better challenge and a bigger role in SM/USUM (seriously, she showed more character in the freaking demo...).
 
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I think I've brought this up in movepool oddities, but the fact that Kartana learns Smart Strike at all is just stupid. It has no horn to speak of, and its main gimmick is that it's really good at slashing and cutting, not stabbing.

The worst part is that there was no reason for this to be a thing. Smart Strike is the only Steel-type attack Kartana can learn, and it learns it through TM. Do you know what else was a TM in Gen 7? Steel Wing. Same base power. Trades a bit of accuracy for a chance to raise Defense. Strictly in terms of gameplay, the two are basically interchangeable. But while Smart Strike's flavor doesn't fit Kartana in the slightest, Steel Wing would have been a great fit. It's somewhat of a slash (more of a slash than Smart Strike, anyway) and it would have been a cool reference to the two most iconic things made from folded paper: airplanes and cranes.
Alternatively: Smart Strike was added as a move specifically to give Kartana a Steel move (and they inexplicably don't want to change the type/effect of Cut despite it basically being its signature move).

Kartana does have "horns"; they're the two protrusions on top of its head. Its personality, so to speak, is modeled after samurai, and its head is made to look like an origami version of samurai helmets, which do have horns! That said, we all know Kartana rather obviously isn't attacking with its "horns" and is instead executing the move as a thrust with its blades. Sure, it can't use the move to the letter but it definitely has the spirit of it in execution.

Smart Strike being Steel in the first place is pretty weird; there's no particular association between metal and horns in Pokémon. Not that there's a lot of horn-based attacks, I suppose; there's Horn Attack and Horn Drill, Normal moves, and Megahorn, a Bug move (which is only really Bug because of Heracross, but it's ended up being a respectable coverage option for the few Pokémon that get it, so I guess it works out), and Peck, if you want to stretch it (various Pokémon with horns get it, but it's also clearly meant to be a move primarily for bird Pokémon). It's not even widely distributed to Steel types; the Steel Pokémon that aren't Kartana are:

  • Aggron (makes sense)
  • Excadrill (its weird head protrusion is technically a horn, I guess, given it also learns Horn Drill, but it's also heavily associated with drill moves)
  • Escavalier (doesn't really have a horn anymore, though Karrablast does, and it ostensibly gets to keep Megahorn through that link, or thrusting via its lances. Notably, Karrablast does NOT get Smart Strike)
  • Celesteela (fellow Steel type UB-04; no particular arguments here, though I'm not sure if I would personally call the pointy, elongated top of its head a "horn.")
  • Dusk Mane Necrozma (inherited from base Necrozma, which ostensibly gets it from the sharp points on its "head.")
There are also multiple learners of the move who either have "horns by design only" that learn it (Togetic, Thundurus), or those who do not have horns but rather horn-like structures (Cloyster, Falinks, Glastrier). I momentarily forgot about Aggron and was about to bring up fellow Gen 3 Steel type Mawile as the only Steel Pokémon to actually have any sort of "horn," though in its case they no longer look like or function like horns and it, understandably, does not get Smart Strike.

At any rate, Smart Strike is a very niche move that I don't believe really sees any play besides Kartana, as the other STAB users have better options, mostly Iron Head, and most other learners have better coverage options. While Kartana could learn Iron Head in theory, I think the sharp, stabbing attack implied by Smart Strike, even if it doesn't actually use its "horns" for it, fits it better than the ramming attack Iron Head is.
 
Not enough.

I'd have it do half damage to everything.
Uhhhh.... so I have 2 ways of interpreting this. Either 1. Stealth Rocks do half damage, or 2. Heavy Duty Boots half all damage. Now, assuming you aren't trying to break the game, you mean stealth rocks does half damage to everything. Which would severely nerf them, and I myself think that would not be a smart move. The sharp, pointy rocks should do a sizable amount of damage on switch in. While yes, some Pokemon take damage weirdly due to their weaknesses (example being Coalossal), they obviously don't want to customise damage for every Pokemon. But even then, while making sense for most pokemon, what makes it inherently broken? There are a couple ways to mitigate stealth rocks, with there being rapid spin, defog, or Heavy Duty Boots. When using any of those, you accept that they have their own drawbacks. You would willingly sacrifice a move for defog/rapid spin or sacrifice an item for Heavy Duty Boots. Which really isn't that bad in all honesty.
 
From the other side of the hazard debate (i.e. someone who really wants to run entire hazard-staking teams), Stealth Rock should absolutely keep its effectiveness against Flying types as a counterbalance to them being immune to other hazards. Especially now that many flying-types have hazard removal via defog.

Now if I only didn't have to use knock off on every flying type beforehand to actually make use of that...
 

The Mind Electric

Calming if you look at it right.
Time for DDD to reveal how little he knows about modern competitive Pokémon.

From the perspective of an outsider looking in, Stealth Rock seems decently-balanced to me as-is. The only thing I think could stand to be changed is how badly it cripples things that are quadruple-weak to Rock, but even then Heavy Duty Boots solve that problem if you can afford to give up other items for them, and you can always bring in a Rapid Spin user or something.
 
Time for DDD to reveal how little he knows about modern competitive Pokémon.

From the perspective of an outsider looking in, Stealth Rock seems decently-balanced to me as-is. The only thing I think could stand to be changed is how badly it cripples things that are quadruple-weak to Rock, but even then Heavy Duty Boots solve that problem if you can afford to give up other items for them, and you can always bring in a Rapid Spin user or something.
Stealth Rock is balanced after gen 4, but on gen 4 especifically its pretty broken, because in DPP spin is likely impossible because of Rotom-A(that was a ghost type on gen 4) being a incredible spinblocker and defensive mon, in gen 5 isn't broken because there isn't a supreme splashable spinblocker and Drill being amazing, in Gen 6 beyond there's Defog which can't be blocked (honestly I prefer spin vs hazard wars because for me it appears to be more skilled and pokemon with hazards + spin having niches aka Forretress) making hazards way more easier but there was no splashable deffoger but at least there was defog and we see the difference : Talonflame and Charizard-Y despite being 4x weak to hazards are viable on Gen 6(even that Talonflame is not that good in singles anymore on Gen 6) and then Gen 7 just made pokemon like Landorus-T having acess to Defog which severely buffed 4x weak to rocks like Volc and Megazard-Y, and then Gen 8 came with HDB(Heavy-Duty-Boots) that is a pretty much a no brainer that well having the positive effect of making pokemon weak to rocks not unviable, there's mons like Blissey using and even that Knock Off exists, its another a no brainer on my opinion since on this gen the only way to block it is Zama, which not sure if its gonna be unbanned or not, and if Zama gets banned then Knock Off will be unblockable again. So yea HDB is stupid and hazards are already balanced on Gen 7 with all the Defog distribution, I still prefer Spikes than Rocks on my opinion. The fact that pokemon like Moltres that recently became OU in ADV solely because it was a fire type that was immune to spikes with a high BP move, and its not like that flying type doesn't brought any more weakness, Zapdos is weak to ice and rock attacks solely because of the flying type, my opinion is that I still prefer Spin than Defog because there was actual strategy on making it succesful, that was a brain game of how to get around the blocker so I can spin and delete the hazards of my field. Sure there's pokemon with Defiant and Competitive to get advantage of Defog but its still unblockable and will get your hazards away and if you don't have mons with these abilities then its unpunishable, the best you can do is pressure them but you can switch out since there's no viable trapping move now since Pursuit gets extinct on this gen, sure Defog has its flaws but if it hadn't it would outclass spin in every way possible, and Defog still outclass it
T.L.D.R
Spin is actually way more skilled than Defog to pull off
I don't like Rocks that much, but they're completely balanced on gen 5, 6 and 7
Knock Off should be nerfed if they decide to not bring back megas and Z-moves(although Z-moves are
ridiculous they can make a mon snowball and overwhelm its checks fairly easy)
HDB is stupid as hell
That's it, have a good day, I completely agree that rocks are balanced and now they're even more easy to exploit since HDB is more used than goddamn Leftovers, that is basically a universal healing item that can affect much the battle and you can miss important KOs because of it, the fact that HDB is being more used than Leftovers demonstrates how powerful this thing is
 

The Mind Electric

Calming if you look at it right.
XY has the best story, champion, and pace.

And the best Eeveelution.
Hard disagree on best Champion, it feels like they wanted to make a fight similar to Cynthia without really understanding what made Cynthia cool and exciting in the first place. She's also not hard, which adds to her forgettability.

Her theme is fire though.
 

Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
XY has the best story
I really, really want you to elaborate on this point considering by the time I finished my recent XY replay my opinion of the story absolutely tanked. I'm not mad at you, hell I legit admire people like you who are able to see something in media or components of media that pretty much nobody else can, and that's why I'm so curious to know your reasoning in greater depth.
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
is a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
From the other side of the hazard debate (i.e. someone who really wants to run entire hazard-staking teams), Stealth Rock should absolutely keep its effectiveness against Flying types as a counterbalance to them being immune to other hazards. Especially now that many flying-types have hazard removal via defog.
I just wished Stealth Rock's max damage was just capped at "weakness" (aka 1/4th of max HP) instead of allowing for "double weakness" (aka HALF of its HP).
 
I just wished Stealth Rock's max damage was just capped at "weakness" (aka 1/4th of max HP) instead of allowing for "double weakness" (aka HALF of its HP).
I agree with Ironmage in that flying already has an amazing advantage over other hazards, which constitutes the 1/4th damage taken from rocks. My view however, being somewhat less competitively inclined, is flavor focused. They add in the extra typing, which in terms of flavor, should also be weak to stealth rocks. This butterfly? The rocks SHOULD murder it. This.. fire bird? It makes sense that it is 4x weak to rock, and loses 1/2 of it's health, etc. In terms of flavor, it makes sense that they are extremely weak to rocks in their own way.
 

qtrx

cadaeic
is a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I just wished Stealth Rock's max damage was just capped at "weakness" (aka 1/4th of max HP) instead of allowing for "double weakness" (aka HALF of its HP).
Rocks were introduced due to airborne mons being completely immune to hazards was unbalanced. However I just don't see how the type chart should play into this. IMO it would have made more sense if rocks did say 1/4 of max health to airborne mons and 1/12 to grounded ones.
 

QuentinQuonce

formerly green_typhlosion
The discussion in another thread about inter-generational transfer methods has made me think of something: I actually really liked the Pal Park. Yes it was slow and clunky as hell and if you're transferring to any of the Sinnoh games, the 24-hour restriction is unfathomably irritating because the console never seems to be set to the right time, BUT the actual minigame of hunting for your old Pokemon in the enclosure and then recapturing them was really charming and I'm pretty fond of it. PokeTransporter/Bank is highly convenient and easy to use so no complaints about that, but just for the aesthetic and general vibe of it Pal Park is probably my favourite method of transferring Pokemon between games, for all its faults.
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
is a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
It makes sense that it is 4x weak to rock, and loses 1/2 of it's health, etc. In terms of flavor, it makes sense that they are extremely weak to rocks in their own way.
Okay, then about about lowering the damage amount of Stealth Rock, or maybe you have to layer it like Spikes to get it to do that much damage:

Layer 1: 1/16 normally, 1/8 weak, 1/4 double weak, no effect if resistant
Layer 2: 1/12th normally, 1/6th weak, 1/3 double weak, 1/24 resist, no effect on double resist
Layer 3 (how it is now): 1/8 normally, 1/4 weak, 1/2 double weak, 1/16 resist, 1/32 double resist

That way they could also make Spikes do Ground-type damage. EDIT: Alright, I guess Spikes can remain Typeless, it's current effect is good enough for a layering Typeless entry hazard.
 
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Okay, then about about lowering the damage amount of Stealth Rock, or maybe you have to layer it like Spikes to get it to do that much damage:

Layer 1: 1/16 normally, 1/8 weak, 1/4 double weak, no effect if resistant
Layer 2: 1/12th normally, 1/6th weak, 1/3 double weak, 1/24 resist, no effect on double resist
Layer 3 (how it is now): 1/8 normally, 1/4 weak, 1/2 double weak, 1/16 resist, 1/32 double resist

That way they could also make Spikes do Ground-type damage.
Oh god pls no about the Spikes. The unique thing about spikes is that you need to layer them to great effect, which improves gameplan to strategically place a layer and get a advantage. I wouldn't like factor ground-type damage because for me it doesn't make sense. Spikes should be punishable to all grounded-mons equally, not making some rock-type(that is already the second worst type on the game) getting loads of damage and would need to rework Spikes entirely. Although I really like yours idea of stealth rock, but the Spikes are fine as it's, Spikes is a unique hazard on my opinion and shouldn't be changed.
 

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