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You do raise some very good points, and I can see where you're coming from. In that sense, I would say that's also why the lineation of eras within the Pokémon series is not totally rigid, barring Gens 1 and 2, and in many ways, the eras I listed still bleed into each other in a sense with the exception of the first two gens which are rigidly distinct from the rest.

[...]

But you still have some valid points in a sense, which is why I said the eras are not totally rigid: rather, the shifts in design philosophy tend to be gradual, with each odd-numbered gen being the beginning of said shifts that the following generation reinforces, even if even-numbered generations also bring about their own chances to differentiate them. Gen 1 and 2 are arguably the most rigidly different era, but from Gen 3 onwards it's inherently subjective and the perception of "eras" can overlap a lot due to how much even different generations can bleed into each other.

That's fair, and I think your points are fair too, in particular everything you said about 5+6. That said, I think for all that 5 had a lot of game-breaking options available, the difficulty is largely still on par with earlier games; Gen VI started the trend of starters having STAB moves from the outset, for instance. But I could go either way on that. The slew of posts from people voicing their opinions on which gens are most closely interconnected shows how subjective this topic is.
 
That's fair, and I think your points are fair too, in particular everything you said about 5+6. That said, I think for all that 5 had a lot of game-breaking options available, the difficulty is largely still on par with earlier games; Gen VI started the trend of starters having STAB moves from the outset, for instance. But I could go either way on that. The slew of posts from people voicing their opinions on which gens are most closely interconnected shows how subjective this topic is.

At the same time, discussion on many aspects of Pokémon is inherently subjective, which is why we can have so many discussions about different things with differing opinions on many aspects of the Pokémon franchise as a whole and many people having different viewpoints, which is what I consider to be pretty damn cool.

After all, there's a reason this thread has managed to thrive for so long: discussing opinions on Pokémon can be quite fun here, and this thread has been thriving for six years, we're over 400 pages in, and it shows no signs of dying down anytime soon. The fact that we've managed to spawn so many discussions over the years here is honestly neat imo: and something that I enjoy at times. It's always nice hearing different perspectives from different people, and since we're all different and have differing viewpoints on things, that's pretty much why we can all discuss things in a thread like this.
 
This might be a bit of an odd and in many ways contrarian take imo, but I'll say it anyway.

But in my opinion, and I say this after having played through several Pokémon games back to back over the past few months, I feel that the Pokémon games can really be divided into four different "eras" of Pokémon imo in terms of what makes the games' identities and what they are. But I feel they can be divided into something like this:

Original era: Gen 1 and Gen 2
Second era: Gen 3 and Gen 4
Third era: Gen 5 and Gen 6
Fourth era: Gen 7 and Gen 8

These aren't super rigid categories imo, but I feel there is enough convergence between each gen I listed together to combine them into a single era. Each "era" I made constitutes a set of games that are alike from each other, but have distinct differences from the rest and have their own identity together. In a sense, each "era" here constitutes not only a different generation of kids who got into the franchise, but I feel each era forges a different identity and interpretation of what a Pokémon game "is".

Each generation I converged together has enough similarities together and combined are different from each other era that you can feel tangible changes with each era of games and what people who enjoy the Pokémon games value about them. Gens 1 and 2 are obviously alike, being the basic beginning of the Pokémon games and what makes them well, Pokémon to the kids who grew up with that is distinct from what other kids from later generations value about a Pokémon game. Even today, they are still very much distinct from every future generation of Pokémon that came afterward.

Gen 3 and Gen 4 are very much alike as well: while there are some tangible differences between the Hoenn games and Sinnoh games, they are also very similar in more ways than one, same with FRLG and HGSS in that regard, and the things people value about the Hoenn and Sinnoh era are very distinct from what would be valued about other games. The Hoenn games reinvented the wheel for Pokémon with many new changes, and the Sinnoh games rode on that even if they made some changes themselves too. Many of the similarities between RSE and DPP include the region structure, the way the plot is structured, and the features and content you get: Contests, Secret Bases, Battle Frontier in Emerald/Platinum, and all that. Many of the routes between the two regions are also similar. This was also the beginning of cover legends being relevant to the story, in which the base games has one of each summoned and awakened, and then both are brought together in the 3rd version with the "third legendary" intervening.

I also feel similarly about Gen 5 and Gen 6: some people claim that Gen 6 tried to reverse the blowback and made itself very different from Gen 5, but I disagree: on the contrary, I think the Unova and Kalos games are much more alike than they are different. For one thing, Gen 5 did really make a lot of reinventions and changes as to what Pokémon is, which is a big part of why it got a lot of blowback at the time imo, but Gen 6 I feel really took after the things that Gen 5 changed and followed suit as well, even if it also brought some changes with it. But in many ways, the Unova and Kalos games share many things in common: much like Hoenn and Sinnoh, Unova and Kalos are pretty alike as well, both having notably more linear structures than regions of the past. Unlike the past four regions which were based in regions of Japan, Unova opted to be based on a western region, being based in New York, and likewise, Kalos opted to be based on France. The protagonists of Unova and Kalos are also older than those of the past, with Hilbert/Hilda, Nate/Rosa, and Calem/Serena all being implied to be in their mid teens. This is unique to these regions, as the Alola and Galar protagonists are on the younger end. There was a much stronger focus on story in these games, with BW, BW2, XY, and even ORAS all being based on having a story to tell and having more human, fleshed out NPCs. There are no singular third versions this time around with either generation. The cover legendaries are also story-involved again, and this time you are required to catch them (not in ORAS, but in Unova and Kalos most certainly yes). The way BW1 and XY take off their stories is also similar in that you start off with a group of friends "chosen" by the professor of the region, and one is a more formal rival (Cheren and Calem/Serena) while the other is just a friend who follows you through the journey (Bianca and Shauna/Tierno/Trevor). There are also many other similarities Unova, Kalos, and ORAS had between each other in that regard that they can be conglomerated into a singular "era" of iterations of what defines a Pokémon game.

The most recent, and current era, imo starts with Sun and Moon and continues into the present day. I feel Gens 7 and 8 also are similar to each other in a sense and together form a distinct new "era" of what makes a Pokémon game. The Alola and Galar games really share similarities as well: chief among these is a bigger focus on the League, with you officially being acknowledged as a Champion at the end of the adventure. Alola and Galar play with the traditional League structure, as the former did away with Gyms and did the "Island Challenge" consisting of Totem Pokémon and Kahunas, while Galar returns to the Gym Leaders but does away with the Elite Four, instead replacing it with a tournament where you go off against fellow people competing to claim the Champion title. The "villainous team" of these games is less serious, with Skull and Yell both not being that severe of threats, with the actual antagonist of the game being someone you wouldn't expect (Lusamine and Rose, respectively). There is an even stronger emphasis on making dynamic and human characters in SM, USUM, and SwSh, more than ever, which is a big defining trait of the Alola and Galar games I feel. While there are some differences between them, they also have a lot of similarities to converge them into one big "era" of Pokémon. I am not sure how BDSP and Legends will take after the Alola and Galar games, but that doesn't take away from the similarities in the identities of defines SM, USUM, and SwSh. Opinions on this era are pretty divisive right now, but as it stands the kids who grew up with this particular era of Pokémon are still very young and are not yet old enough to be in online communities, which lopsides the perception of this era quite a bit imo.

And overall, you may notice a trend with these. Each odd numbered gen is the experimental testing ground, the generation that reinvents the wheel with what a Pokémon game is, with Gen 1 obviously being the debut of the series as a whole, but Gens 3, 5, and 7 all reinvented the wheel in their own ways and the even numbered gen that followed effectively stayed true to its preceding odd numbered gen, often ending up more popular than said preceding gen due to debuting on a new platform and bringing in a new wave of kids.

This is probably a very contrarian take and one not many probably thought about, but this is a conclusion and opinion I came to after really looking back at many Pokémon games in hindsight imo.

I think Gens 1 and 2 definitely belong in one era as the unrefined mechanics era. RBY's mechanical issues are well documented, but even GSC despite its many advancements stuck with the old DV system of RBY where Special Attack and Defense shared one DV. Female species were also capped out at 8/15 in terms of their Attack DV, and 100% accurate status moves like Thunder Wave would randomly fail sometimes. This isn't even mentioning the infamous cloning glitches of both sets of games.

Gens 3 and 4 also belong in one era as the pre-modern era. Most of the mechanical issues had been ironed out after the first era and both gens enhanced battle mechanics further with Abilities and the Physical/Special split. Both RSE and DPPt follow a very similar story structure and Emerald and Platinum contain Battle Frontiers to cap off their post games. Both gens' sets of games were also very similar with an original pair, a third version, and a set of remakes.

Gens 6, 7 and 8 belong in one era as the post-modern era. These games introduced gimmicks in the form of Mega's, Z-moves, D-max & G-max which had never been seen before. They also contained noticeably smaller post games as compared to Gens 3, 4 and 5 with their battle facilities being much smaller in comparison. Lastly, I think this era represents a marked shift in difficulty not just due to the Exp. Share, but also smaller things like gaining experience by simply catching Pokémon or major bosses having incomplete move sets.

I left out Gen 5 because I think Gen 5 is in an era by itself. I would call it the bridge era (not just because of Unova's many bridges) but because it bridges the gap between the pre-modern and post-modern eras. Visually Gen 5 was neither fully 2D nor fully 3D. It did not introduce any major battle mechanic nor did it introduce any battle gimmick. The story structure was nothing like we had seen before or have seen since. The concept of a sequel within the same generation was unprecedented. Its post game facilities were neither Battle Frontiers nor were they the more simplistic facilities of the Gen 6+ games. Gen 5 introduced experience scaling which made the games easier than Gen 4 but not quite as easy as the Gen 6+ games. The idea of exclusively new Pokémon in BW was and still is completely unique. For better or for worse, I believe Gen 5 stands on its own and doesn't belong to any era other than itself.
 
The battle frontier not being in newer games isn't that much a disservice to those games

...When compared to it being a disservice to the Frontier itself. There's been an awful lot of stuff since gens 3 and 4, and a good amount of those are too niche to see a lot of use in straight-up tower equivalents. But those options could reasonably be used in the different environments of other frontier facilities, if only there was a frontier to use them in. I want to see Power-up Punch in the Arena, Silvally in the Hall, Komala in the Pike, and whatever new gimmicks for old and new mons could have been thought up in the intervening years. I don't much care which game a fully stocked frontier is in, I just want it to exist.
 
I guess I'll be the first to say this for Legends
Hisuian Growlithe doesn't look good/fitting
For a supposed wild species not bred by humans, it looks notoriously like a pedigreed dog, bar the barely visible horn. People only like it cuz it's super floofy and cute, even though it makes no sense for the area. Even the argument "it's a cold climate, it's going to be furrier" doesn't explain why it looks neatly fluffed over the eyes
And if GF were just intending it to look goofy, well....it kinda failed there. It's just forced cute. Curious how Arcanine will look, though I have low expectation

Stantler and Basculin though? I like em (and Stantler no longer has a stupid ball tail)
 
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For a supposed wild species not bred by humans, it looks notoriously like a pedigreed dog, bar the barely visible horn. People only like it cuz it's super floofy and cute, even though it makes no sense for the area. Even the argument "it's a cold climate, it's going to be furrier" doesn't explain why it looks neatly fluffed over the eyes

It's not fur, it's stone iirc
 
I guess I'll be the first to say this for Legends
Hisuian Growlithe doesn't look good/fitting
For a supposed wild species not bred by humans, it looks notoriously like a pedigreed dog, bar the barely visible horn. People only like it cuz it's super floofy and cute, even though it makes no sense for the area. Even the argument "it's a cold climate, it's going to be furrier" doesn't explain why it looks neatly fluffed over the eyes
And if GF were just intending it to look goofy, well....it kinda failed there. It's just forced cute. Curious how Arcanine will look, though I have low expectation

Stantler and Basculin though? I like em (and Stantler no longer has a stupid ball tail)
It's based on the Foo Dog statues from ancient China.
Foo Dog.jpg
 
I guess I'll be the first to say this for Legends
Hisuian Growlithe doesn't look good/fitting
For a supposed wild species not bred by humans, it looks notoriously like a pedigreed dog, bar the barely visible horn. People only like it cuz it's super floofy and cute, even though it makes no sense for the area. Even the argument "it's a cold climate, it's going to be furrier" doesn't explain why it looks neatly fluffed over the eyes
And if GF were just intending it to look goofy, well....it kinda failed there. It's just forced cute. Curious how Arcanine will look, though I have low expectation

Stantler and Basculin though? I like em (and Stantler no longer has a stupid ball tail)

I agree. Am I supposed to believe that this couldn't adapt to the cold?
250px-058Growlithe.png


A literal Fire-type? Game Freak gotta be trolling. :pikuh:
 
Warning: slightly rambly and disorganized post

With the realization setting in that the Battle Frontier is a bust for BDSP, I've been thinking back on the history of its absence and the more I do there are some things that don't add up. The common narrative seems to be that Game Freak just doesn't have the time anymore to implement it, hence why they can never seem to bring it back in any decent capacity. Either that, or they just don't care about their fanbase at all and would rather go off on their weird tangents.

But like... I don't think either of those entirely make sense??? Lemme explain.

Ok, so, potentially very dumb take incoming - I honestly don't think the Battle Frontier is that arduous to implement?

Battle Tower Pt.png

Battle Castle Interior.png
VS Darach.png

Battle Arcade interior PtHGSS.png
VS Dahlia.png

Battle Factory interior PtHGSS.png
VS Thorton.png

Battle Hall Interior.png
VS Argenta.png
These are all the rooms for the Platinum frontier, 9 in total. These rooms are static. These rooms never change, aside from occasional cinematic flair such as spotlights and such. Now let's look at something like oh, I dunno, USUM's Ultra Space locations. No, I do not consider them substantial or good content. Yes, I think they are woefully underdeveloped and glorified hallways. But with all 8 locations + Ultra Megalopolis considered that's still the same amount of "rooms" that are already more complex and dynamic than any individual chamber of this Battle Frontier, in a more labor-intensive 3D space no less. Of course there's the added layer of being battle facilities, but again considering the relatively simple maps I seriously question if implementing simple rulesets and mechanisms before slapping on randomly generated trainers with Pokemon sets ripped right from the Battle Tower we get every generation is enough to push its implementation into herculean territory.

I am not a game dev. I can't wrap my head around game-making to save my life. I could be completely and utterly talking out of my ass here. But this is a company that has implemented the previously Ultra Space locations and two DLCs that are themselves giant open areas with secrets and stuff to find. Why is a grab-bag of rooms where you fight people under slightly different rulesets the point where we draw the line in our desperate bids to understand GF's design process and constraints?

And yes, sure, those things I mentioned were only added after their respective generations' "V1s". But then look at what the past two Frontierless remakes have done under their circumstances. ORAS added tons of shit from fancy new cutscenes to new story bits to redesign locations, and already we've seen BDSP massively overhaul the Underground to an extent nobody saw coming. If hypothetically I could go back in time to redo ORAS with the Frontier, sure some compromises would have to be made on other content but considering what I've said I am all but CERTAIN it could be pulled off in a timely fashion.

Ok ok, I know it seems like I kinda dissed the Pokemon crew but I also don't think they're just a bunch of greedy coots who don't wanna make fans happy. After all, don't forget that we came this close to character customization being a Kalos exclusive. After the outcry to Masuda's statement on its exclusion in ORAS they backpedalled REMARKABLY quickly despite it not being anywhere near as severe as how the lack of the Frontier was taken, and to this day ORAS remains the only mainline title since the jump to 3D to not have trainer customization in some form. Following Pokemon is probably just as infamous of a cut feature as the Frontier, and yet recently it seems like they've finally committed to making it a series staple with every Switch title having it, even if as a DLC exclusive feature in SWSH (and fwiw I am convinced that following mons were only excluded from the base game cuz SWSH development legit was not conducive to figuring out pathing and such but that's a discussion for another time). If anything it seems like the Battle Frontier is an odd man out of sorts when you really think about it.

So where am I going with this? Well, I wanna return to the Masuda quote. Yes, that Masuda quote. The one where he stated the belief that kids these days just don't care about the postgame facilities. The ultimate hot take of this post I guess is that despite a lot of fans seeming to think this was just a cover-up for a lack of time, I personally think Masuda genuinely meant it. I don't think Game Freak is strapped for time. I don't think they're lazy or unresponsive to fan demand either. I think they're afflicted by something far more impenetrable: Glacial, deep-seated apathy for the Frontier and what it has (or rather had) to offer. I am truly convinced that the Frontier was NEVER going to make it to ORAS, and that it probably got axed in the earliest planning stages assuming it was contemplated at all. At some point after Platinum they decided it was not important, and that the outcry for its return was little more than a tiny minority not worth capitulating to unlike the demands for character customization, following Pokemon, better 3d models/animation, Pokemon-amie derivatives and basically every other design choice they made with ORAS and whatever's left to show of BDSP. With this context the BDSP Sinnoh map reveal almost reads like a subtle doubling down, a message that "7 years and an entire game's reputation being potentially irreparably damaged later, we still don't care and never will. Don't delude yourselves into thinking otherwise."

Well jeez, that got uncharacteristically cynical, and I genuinely do not care about the Frontier and was predicting that this outcome was inevitable. BDSP will still be great and I'll probably love it based on what's been shown so far. By all means I'm just as apathetic towards it as Game Freak is, so don't bother asking me what compelled me to jot all this out, I can't really tell you.
 
It's not really a matter of whether Game Freak cares about the Frontier and more a matter of the question "Is it worth it?"

If I'm not mistaken Game Freak actually surveyed their playerbase long ago and the general trend towards the Frontier is that the vast majority of players who play the Pokemon games straight up didn't bother with the Frontier whatsoever. Further reinforced by it only appearing in third versions like Emerald and Platinum, which sell much less than base games. If there were complaints that the majority of people did try it and found it too difficult to understand, then in that scenario, I believe they would still be making Battle Frontiers but would focus on making said Frontier more accessible. A vast majority of players have shown that they don't care in the slightest about the Frontier, and so they don't bother putting it in because they don't think it's worth putting in a feature many people these days don't care about or will actually use. Meanwhile, Amie derivatives, customization, following Pokemon, and whatnot are things that *are* used by a large portion of the playerbase in the present day and are well liked by the majority, and thus they consider it worth it to continue putting in those features that many consumers will in fact use.

That is, unfortunately, the nature of how business works. Game Freak sees a shift in what most players (which is largely casual players and kids, mind you) will want out of a Pokemon game, and will thus shift the focus on what they consider most important to have in each game accordingly, regardless of what dissenting opinions may be out there. It's a shame but such is the nature of business and the industry.
 
Ok, so, potentially very dumb take incoming - I honestly don't think the Battle Frontier is that arduous to implement?

It is. There's a staggering amount of mons that need to be prepared for the Factory and trainers for every single facility. They also need to be varied enough to keep things interesting. Also, several waves-worth of them.

The physical location is really nothing compared to what actually makes the Frontier tick.

So where am I going with this? Well, I wanna return to the Masuda quote. Yes, that Masuda quote. The one where he stated the belief that kids these days just don't care about the postgame facilities. The ultimate hot take of this post I guess is that despite a lot of fans seeming to think this was just a cover-up for a lack of time, I personally think Masuda genuinely meant it.

He did. It's quite frankly one of the most disrespectful things I've ever seen, and it's not just the Frontier, a remarkable number of things were severely simplified.

For example, map design, and the notorious difficulty issues in the 3D era. The obsession with flashy gimmicks over any kind of substance. The rampant handholding to the point that it creates pacing problems.

The older games were also made with kids as their intended target audience, but now kids just can't appreciate challenges.
 
If I'm not mistaken Game Freak actually surveyed their playerbase long ago and the general trend towards the Frontier is that the vast majority of players who play the Pokemon games straight up didn't bother with the Frontier whatsoever.
I would love to see if this survey can be located, I'm curious to see just how much of a landslide the people who didn't bother were: 45/55 and 5/95 have two drastically different meanings.

It is. There's a staggering amount of mons that need to be prepared for the Factory and trainers for every single facility. They also need to be varied enough to keep things interesting. Also, several waves-worth of them.

The physical location is really nothing compared to what actually makes the Frontier tick.
That's the thing though: As I said in my post, the sets are already present due to being made for the Tower. I also imagine some of the logic for NPC trainers appearing, fighting you and leaving can be ported over with modifications as well. The only big original mechanical thing needed is each facility's unique gimmick, and while I'm not saying it's easy it's definitely less strenuous with that previous work done.
 
That's the thing though: As I said in my post, the sets are already present due to being made for the Tower. I also imagine some of the logic for NPC trainers appearing, fighting you and leaving can be ported over with modifications as well. The only big original mechanical thing needed is each facility's unique gimmick, and while I'm not saying it's easy it's definitely less strenuous with that previous work done.
Now I'd have to take a look at the exact differences between SwSh's Battle Tower and the classic ones, but that is a good point...

Well, one thing I keep suggesting is that, if they don't want to make a Battle Frontier that's fine, but they could at least make the single major Battle Facility more dynamic. There's an easy way to break down the Factory, Arena, Dome, Pike, Palace, Arcade, Castle, and Hall to their bare essentials it would even work in the Battle Tower setting. Heck, the same can also be said for all of the special battling rules in Battle Revolution's colosseums: Waterfall, Neon, Sunny Park/Little Battles, Magma, Sunset, and Courtyard. You could also throw in Launcher, Inverse, Royal, Restricted Sparring, & Dynamax Adventure. The only that may have a problem is Battle Pyramid as that's more of a maze exploration challenge than battling-based.
 
The real big-brain move is for them to sell the full Battle Frontier as DLC. It's a low-effort way to give hours of new content to the hardcore fans who stick around after the initial launch and make some money. Plus, the sales numbers will be a good way to gauge interest in the full Frontier, since anybody who is willing to pay extra just for the full thing is probably pretty dedicated to it.
 
The real big-brain move is for them to sell the full Battle Frontier as DLC. It's a low-effort way to give hours of new content to the hardcore fans who stick around after the initial launch and make some money. Plus, the sales numbers will be a good way to gauge interest in the full Frontier, since anybody who is willing to pay extra just for the full thing is probably pretty dedicated to it.

Plus when you think about it the Battle Frontier being DLC would more or less be very similar to the way it was implemented in past games. The only instances of the Battle Frontier existing are in third versions (aka Emerald and Platinum), in which both cases Emerald and Platinum are effectively DLC disguised as a new game, effectively being "enhanced content" versions of RS and DP, and HGSS, which did the bare minimum by copypasting Platinum's Frontier 1 to 1. I'm sure they know that only more serious Pokemon players will buy third versions or DLC to begin with so there's not much to lose while making it DLC is less predatory than having to buy an enhanced game (this isn't to disrespect Emerald and Platinum: both are fantastic games on their own, but from a business standpoint gutting RS and DP only to release a game that virtually invalidates the original purchase entirely is a pretty shitty business practice, not saying DLC is perfect either, but it at least doesn't invalidate the original purchase's existence).

It wouldn't be unreasonable for it to be DLC with its past track record. Emerald and Platinum were able to implement a full blown Frontier because they didn't need to develop a full region and such, they had the base of RS and DP to work with and just needed to add a few stuff to it and make adjustments. HGSS is the only other instance of it existing and of course that just copypasted over Platinum's Frontier. Considering the first time they did DLC they said it was fulfilling the function third versions would usually fill, allowing the Frontier to be DLC is more or less par for the course considering third versions are effectively DLC disguised as new games in and of themselves.
 
The real big-brain move is for them to sell the full Battle Frontier as DLC. It's a low-effort way to give hours of new content to the hardcore fans who stick around after the initial launch and make some money. Plus, the sales numbers will be a good way to gauge interest in the full Frontier, since anybody who is willing to pay extra just for the full thing is probably pretty dedicated to it.

Battle Frontier as DLC is a good idea. I don't think it would be low effort however, there's a fair bit of complexity. But I don't think it would be much more or less effort than SwSh's DLCs. It's hard to gauge without being part of their development team but that's my guess.

Plus like you said with concrete sales numbers attached both we as a community and GF can finally get some closure to this debate. Surveys are too ambiguous in their results to provide the same type of closure. Myself as a proponent of the Battle Frontier am tired of arguing for it because everything that's been said for (and against) it has already been said a hundred times.

If a Battle Frontier DLC proves to be as profitable or more so than SwSh's DLCs then it becomes a worthwhile endeavor for GF to invest in the future. If not, GF puts this to bed and we as a community (myself included) get over the fact that enhanced battle facilities are never coming back.
 
If a Battle Frontier DLC proves to be as profitable or more so than SwSh's DLCs then it becomes a worthwhile endeavor for GF to invest in the future. If not, GF puts this to bed and we as a community (myself included) get over the fact that enhanced battle facilities are never coming back.

This is a bit of a speculation, but considering how much buzz the Battle Frontier gets on the Internet I think the latter situation would be an unlikely scenario frankly should they make Battle Frontier DLC. It may mostly appeal to hardcore battlers but it's so valued by the people who did engage in the Frontier that even if as of that time they weren't the majority, they sure as hell are vocal about it. I think even Masuda himself actually acknowledged someone on Twitter talking about their Frontier records even, can't recall the Tweet though.

I think in the present day and age, especially if they find ways to make the Battle Frontier more accessible (which would help make it more popular imo), if they put it in as DLC I think it would make the Frontier even more popular than it is now. Back in the Emerald and Platinum days it wasn't as easy to spread the word about it or talk about how many people enjoyed it because the Internet wasn't as big as it is today, but in today's world where we have the likes of Twitter and other massive social media platforms the massively vocal fanbase would generate enough buzz about the Frontier to encourage even newcomers to the idea to get into it, and that in itself would make great marketing. It might not have been *that* popular back then, but that was mainly because of how much harder it was to market it back then plus lack of accessibility. A great way to make it profitable exists today: finding a way to make it conducive to newer players to help them get into it while still making it a fun challenge for even hardcore players would be a great way to get both audiences in, and of course given the nature of the modern day Internet and the rise of social media nowadays, generating the needed buzz and hype to encourage more and more people to get into it will ensure it ends up a profitable endeavor imo.

Of course, I can't say for sure that they will do it, but in an ideal circumstance, they really should. They have nothing to lose, and I think it has potential to appeal even more widely today because of how prolific the Internet is and how easy for the word of mouth about it is to get out in the present day. If they do, however, I don't imagine we will know until after BDSP releases: after all, Sword and Shield's Expansion Pass wasn't unveiled until after the game came out and no one had a clue it was going to happen until then.
 
This is a bit of a speculation, but considering how much buzz the Battle Frontier gets on the Internet I think the latter situation would be an unlikely scenario frankly should they make Battle Frontier DLC. It may mostly appeal to hardcore battlers but it's so valued by the people who did engage in the Frontier that even if as of that time they weren't the majority, they sure as hell are vocal about it. I think even Masuda himself actually acknowledged someone on Twitter talking about their Frontier records even, can't recall the Tweet though.

I think in the present day and age, especially if they find ways to make the Battle Frontier more accessible (which would help make it more popular imo), if they put it in as DLC I think it would make the Frontier even more popular than it is now. Back in the Emerald and Platinum days it wasn't as easy to spread the word about it or talk about how many people enjoyed it because the Internet wasn't as big as it is today, but in today's world where we have the likes of Twitter and other massive social media platforms the massively vocal fanbase would generate enough buzz about the Frontier to encourage even newcomers to the idea to get into it, and that in itself would make great marketing. It might not have been *that* popular back then, but that was mainly because of how much harder it was to market it back then plus lack of accessibility. A great way to make it profitable exists today: finding a way to make it conducive to newer players to help them get into it while still making it a fun challenge for even hardcore players would be a great way to get both audiences in, and of course given the nature of the modern day Internet and the rise of social media nowadays, generating the needed buzz and hype to encourage more and more people to get into it will ensure it ends up a profitable endeavor imo.

Of course, I can't say for sure that they will do it, but in an ideal circumstance, they really should. They have nothing to lose, and I think it has potential to appeal even more widely today because of how prolific the Internet is and how easy for the word of mouth about it is to get out in the present day. If they do, however, I don't imagine we will know until after BDSP releases: after all, Sword and Shield's Expansion Pass wasn't unveiled until after the game came out and no one had a clue it was going to happen until then.

I also think it would prove to be highly profitable. Especially considering many mechanics introduced post Gen 5 are highly conducive to building competitive teams with relative ease of breeding, EV training, and just training in general compared to older gens. I can't imagine the Battle Frontier being any less popular than it ever was.

However, this is just a hypothesis. I'm open to the possibility that this ends up being a giant development time sink that nets very little revenue compared to the cost, time and resources invested. In which case GF has every right to axe it and we have not much right to complain. But GF axing the Battle Frontier on the basis of rather vague, ambiguous surveys is doing its community quite a disservice in my opinion.
 
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