Serious US Election Thread (read post #2014)

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I think it was a draw, performance wise. Fact checking and Trump's controversies will continue to haunt him, however. I did like his final response.

Also, I emailed both campaigns tonight. I posed the question we all care about; what are the presidential and vice presidential candidates' favorite Pokemon?
 
That was a shitshow and Trump literally saying "i apologize for saying what i did, but i will take down ISIS"



That is a direct qoute lmao........



Hillary didn't go good but she didn't bo bad either and I think I'd give the edge to her, even with Trump graded on such a low curve and not having any policy talk (other then answering the question on making the wealthy pay their fair share and saying he'd cut taxes lol)
 
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Myzozoa

to find better ways to say what nobody says
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
ah the most disappointing reactions from my fb so far out of all of these debates, I was at work of course, during the debate. If the TV had been on at my facility during the debate, it would have been sunday football, a spectacle infinitely more likely to provide a truthful political commentary on america.

a gem:



a 'fun' exercise in self-awareness for anyone who posted in this thread 'seriously' would be to look back at your posts and see if you can still take any of them seriously. I would do it for you, but that'd be cruel. You could probably even find some by me that seem pretty wack now.

"Every woman knows a version of Donald Trump. Most of us have known more of them than we can (or care to) recall. He’s the boss who thinks you owe him something; the date who thinks that silence means “yes” and “no” means “try harder”; the stranger who thinks your body’s mere existence constitutes an invitation to touch, take, own and destroy. He’s every deadbeat hookup, every narcissistic loser, every man who’s ever tried to leverage power, money, fame, credibility or physical strength to snap your boundaries like matchsticks. He is hot fear and cold dread and a pit in your stomach. He’s the man who held you back, who never took you seriously, who treated you like nothing until you started to believe it, who raped you and told you it was your fault and whose daddy was a cop so who would believe you anyway?

...

If you have spent your career brutalizing and dehumanizing women legislatively rather than personally, you are no better. If you were happy to overlook months of violent racism, xenophobia, transphobia and Islamophobia from the Trump campaign, but now you’re mad that he used a bad word and tried to sleep with another man’s wife, you are no better. If you have derided and stigmatized identity politics in an effort to keep the marginalized from organizing, you are no better. If you snicker or say nothing while your fellow men behave like Donald Trump, you are no better."


also there are not really very many 'hillary supporters', please stop using that term to describe people who are going to vote for hillary clinton. it's an adult thing. someday you'll understand.
 
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Adamant Zoroark

catchy catchphrase
is a Contributor to Smogon
So now we have two post-pussy polls each showing Trump down 11 points. Meanwhile, Trump is attacking establishment Republicans on Twitter. We could be witnessing the fracturing of a major party the likes of which we haven't seen since the 1960s.
The Republican Party was already pretty fractured. The problem isn't even that they're losing among registered voters (which has been the case since the 1940s or earlier) but the problem is there is really nothing resembling unity within the GOP. I see this most prominently with my parents (both Republicans), with my mom being an incredibly racist social conservative and my dad having a more laissez-faire, socially progressive libertarian political view. You also see this in Congress with social conservatives like Ted Cruz and libertarians like Rand Paul. I can't say the same thing about the Democratic party - for example, when a member of Congress is a Democrat, you know basically where they stand just from that.

I'm not disagreeing with the overall point of your post, though - just saying that Donald Trump didn't start the fracturing of the GOP, he's finishing the job.
 

Bull Of Heaven

99 Pounders / 4'3" Feet
is a Pre-Contributor
the problem is there is really nothing resembling unity within the GOP... I can't say the same thing about the Democratic party - for example, when a member of Congress is a Democrat, you know basically where they stand just from that.
Amazing how things change sometimes. Just a few years ago, I was always hearing that the Dems were the less united party because they couldn't get their own members to broadly agree on policy, while GOP officials/candidates were happy to just block whatever Obama wanted and try to out-conservative each other. Even when Boehner was being eaten alive by his own caucus, the stakes didn't seem as high as they now clearly were. A few conservative Democrats who aren't sure about Obamacare, and liberals who oppose it for not doing enough, are now comparatively great problems to have!

But I do think that this perceived Democratic unity is at least partly manufactured by a Clinton campaign that's working every connection she has, in a year where their party only had one other credible contender for the presidency. And the whole "Bernie or Bust" thing shows that there could be lots of infighting in the Democratic Party for years to come.
 
As an observer from afar - I can only say I am absolutely appalled to see an American presidential candidate say "you would be in jail in my administration" and have the audience whoop. This smacks of a small country that has been under democracy for < 20 years, on the cusp of collapsing to a dictatorship, rather than a world-leading democracy like America that should be selling civility in democracy to the rest of the world. An incredibly complex series of events has lead this to be the case (of which I believe corruption to be only a small part).

I fear whatever happens democracy has already lost. I hope, more than either candidate winning, that whoever the two candidate are in 2020, that they agree to preserve civil democracy and run an issues-based, not personality-based campaign.
 
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As an observer from afar - I can only say I am absolutely appalled to see an American presidential candidate say "you would be in jail in my administration" and have the audience whoop. This smacks of a small country that has been under democracy for < 20 years, on the cusp of collapsing to a dictatorship, rather than a world-leading democracy like America that should be selling civility in democracy to the rest of the world. An incredibly complex series of events has lead this to be the case (of which I believe corruption to be only a small part).

I fear whatever happens democracy has already lost. I hope, more than either candidate winning, that whoever the two candidate are in 2020, that they agree to preserve civil democracy and run an issues-based, not personality-based campaign.
I fear that even if Trump loses, that his most rabid supporters might carry out the threat of attempting to overthrow the government.
No seriously, people have threatened to revolt if it's Hillary.

I really hope it is all just bluster. Similar threats were made when Obama ran. Both times. But now we have a candidate who is blowing his dogwhistle.

I fear that if they get close enough, martial law might be declared, perhaps nationwide, and the only time this has ever happened was during the Civil War, and fortunately Lincoln gave up emergency powers after the war. I wouldn't trust to leave that decision to our currently corrupt military and governmental leadership.

Any thoughts on this?

I'm surprised that there hasn't been any talk of this.
 

Ununhexium

dishwasher
is a Social Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
I fear that even if Trump loses, that his most rabid supporters might carry out the threat of attempting to overthrow the government.
No seriously, people have threatened to revolt if it's Hillary.

I really hope it is all just bluster. Similar threats were made when Obama ran. Both times. But now we have a candidate who is blowing his dogwhistle.

I fear that if they get close enough, martial law might be declared, perhaps nationwide, and the only time this has ever happened was during the Civil War, and fortunately Lincoln gave up emergency powers after the war. I wouldn't trust to leave that decision to our currently corrupt military and governmental leadership.

Any thoughts on this?

I'm surprised that there hasn't been any talk of this.
I'm pretty sure Lincoln got shot after the war
 

Super Mario Bro

All we ever look for
I fear that even if Trump loses, that his most rabid supporters might carry out the threat of attempting to overthrow the government.
No seriously, people have threatened to revolt if it's Hillary.

I really hope it is all just bluster. Similar threats were made when Obama ran. Both times. But now we have a candidate who is blowing his dogwhistle.

I fear that if they get close enough, martial law might be declared, perhaps nationwide, and the only time this has ever happened was during the Civil War, and fortunately Lincoln gave up emergency powers after the war. I wouldn't trust to leave that decision to our currently corrupt military and governmental leadership.

Any thoughts on this?

I'm surprised that there hasn't been any talk of this.
Because there's nothing more frightening than old, angry, overweight white men, am I right?
 
Because there's nothing more frightening than old, angry, overweight white men, am I right?
If they have automatic rifles, (and some of them definitely do), then perhaps. Don't underestimate the damage they can do, because if they are serious, they might bring more than guns.

There are really three reasons to make such a threat:
A) Out of angry bluster, but will ultimately either drop it or not enough will actually bother to carry it out
B) To scare people into accepting their dear leader, and perhaps not voting against him (but they may or may not carry it out)
C) They are serious

Though I'm honestly more worried about the white supremacist groups, and that the government might declare martial law if they cause enough damage.

In all likelyhood, it is bluster, though I am worried Trump will fan the flames when he looses, and that could make a difference.
 
I fear that even if Trump loses, that his most rabid supporters might carry out the threat of attempting to overthrow the government.
No seriously, people have threatened to revolt if it's Hillary.

I really hope it is all just bluster. Similar threats were made when Obama ran. Both times. But now we have a candidate who is blowing his dogwhistle.

I fear that if they get close enough, martial law might be declared, perhaps nationwide, and the only time this has ever happened was during the Civil War, and fortunately Lincoln gave up emergency powers after the war. I wouldn't trust to leave that decision to our currently corrupt military and governmental leadership.

Any thoughts on this?

I'm surprised that there hasn't been any talk of this.
I can offer no real consolation unfortunately. I fear what will happen geopolitically whichever candidate wins. What does give me consolation is humility - and this might be the most nihilist thing that you'll ever hear me say, an understanding that even in the worst possible scenario, people will have another chance to learn from history and reflect.

For humility:

http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/

In terms of learning from history, in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis and current tensions with Russia, this interview with Gorbachev after the fall of the Soviet Union really rings true for me:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/people/mikhail_gorbachev#p018cf9v

EDIT: Yeah I know that final one is a bit of a wildcard, but thought I'd share. Gorbachev was a demagogue in his day - but here he shows humility in the obvious victory of capitalism to improve the living standard of the many and yet warns that an overly jubilant victory by the west would lead to trouble. This might be the most hippie thing you'll hear me say - but everyone is trying to help someone, at the end of the day.

EDIT 2: Give me a break it's past midnight over here and I'm feeling philosophical :P
 
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BenTheDemon

Banned deucer.
This election cycle has been very disappointing for Progressives. There is huge speculation about Hillary rigging the Democratic Primary, which I happen to believe, as Hillary won my county's primary by 80% and I know the people around here much preferred Bernie.

Then there's Trump's shenanigans that should have cost him the election back in the first debate, but the GOP base has shown its true colors, as they don't care, and are also hypocrites because they call foul if a Democrat does half of what Trump does.

My initial hope as a Progressive was a Trump victory (put the pitchforks down and let me explain), as Hillary is simply too far right to fix the problems facing our country, and in her leaked speeches, she outright mocks Progressive ideals. Yes, in a vacuum, Hillary is better than Trump, but this is a game of chess, not checkers. Trump would be such a terrible president that he would not win a second term, and he would stain the GOP's name for a long time, giving Progressives a huge advantage in the future. So after 4 years, we could elect a real Progressive like Bernie or Warren with little GOP pushback. But if Hillary wins, we have 8 years of moderate Conservatism plus at least 4 more because it's very unlikely for one party to hold the White House three consecutive times, so that means we'd have a Republican president come 2024.

But since many mainstream Republicans are backing away from Trump, most notably Paul Ryan and John McCain, I'm not sure if I can even have that little sliver of hope for the future.

Sorry for the bleak post, but I truly see no clear path to a better future any time soon, but same-sex marriage states went from 0-50 in less than 10 years, so perhaps we can hope for another miracle.
 
This election cycle has been very disappointing for Progressives. There is huge speculation about Hillary rigging the Democratic Primary, which I happen to believe, as Hillary won my county's primary by 80% and I know the people around here much preferred Bernie.

Then there's Trump's shenanigans that should have cost him the election back in the first debate, but the GOP base has shown its true colors, as they don't care, and are also hypocrites because they call foul if a Democrat does half of what Trump does.

My initial hope as a Progressive was a Trump victory (put the pitchforks down and let me explain), as Hillary is simply too far right to fix the problems facing our country, and in her leaked speeches, she outright mocks Progressive ideals. Yes, in a vacuum, Hillary is better than Trump, but this is a game of chess, not checkers. Trump would be such a terrible president that he would not win a second term, and he would stain the GOP's name for a long time, giving Progressives a huge advantage in the future. So after 4 years, we could elect a real Progressive like Bernie or Warren with little GOP pushback. But if Hillary wins, we have 8 years of moderate Conservatism plus at least 4 more because it's very unlikely for one party to hold the White House three consecutive times, so that means we'd have a Republican president come 2024.

But since many mainstream Republicans are backing away from Trump, most notably Paul Ryan and John McCain, I'm not sure if I can even have that little sliver of hope for the future.

Sorry for the bleak post, but I truly see no clear path to a better future any time soon, but same-sex marriage states went from 0-50 in less than 10 years, so perhaps we can hope for another miracle.
I used to think that way for a while. "Screw Trump! Screw Hillary! I don't have to be with either one of them!!!" But Trump really poses a real threat, as do the people who back him.

A Trump presidency would mean an ultra-conservative Supreme Court who will uphold Citizens United, making it hard for candidates without Super Pacs to succeed, let alone compete. Our environment would be put at even greater risks, and movements like the #NDPL would be quashed in the quest for energy and profit. Taxes on the wealthiest of Americans would be lowered, raising our debt further, and God forbid Trump decides to default on it. How will the government borrow money?
Trump is against regulation, I don't think I need to say what the consequences of that would be.

He is clearly pro-Blue Lives Matter, his supporters are anti-Black Lives Matter, and aggression against African Americans will get worse, leading to more events where cops are killed in retaliation. And what happens if Trump tells not only the police, but the military to re-retaliate? What would happen if non-black activists get involved? What happens if the police and military respond to activists violently? And what would happen if civil rights activists respond to violence with a 2nd amendment solution? Tempers are already frayed as is. It is not completely inconceivable that Trump would just make things worse. He has no regard for human beings, and I don't trust our government, law enforcement, or checks and balances to compensate enough if the shit hits the fan.

And we don't know who Trump will assign to various positions, or how much an effect that his most rabid followers will have on our political climate. For all we know, they might start to not only act violently against other races, but Caucasian progressives as well, and anyone else who doesn't agree with them. Have you heard some of these people speak? If Trump and his allies in government allows the sort of behavior we see at his rallies, it could easily turn into something similar to the rise of the Nazi party. Hell, the Neo Nazi group supports him! And given how I expect my fellow progressives not to tolerate that, and for Trump fanatics not to tolerate said intolerance, I see the possibility of a revolt or even a civil war!

And then there is the ultimate question: can we trust Trump with the nuclear codes?

To talk less: I see Trump as too much of a threat to our democracy to commit a Hail Mary, and just say "Fuck you DNC, if Trump wins, he wins"!
 
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Adamant Zoroark

catchy catchphrase
is a Contributor to Smogon
My initial hope as a Progressive was a Trump victory (put the pitchforks down and let me explain), as Hillary is simply too far right to fix the problems facing our country, and in her leaked speeches, she outright mocks Progressive ideals. Yes, in a vacuum, Hillary is better than Trump, but this is a game of chess, not checkers. Trump would be such a terrible president that he would not win a second term, and he would stain the GOP's name for a long time, giving Progressives a huge advantage in the future. So after 4 years, we could elect a real Progressive like Bernie or Warren with little GOP pushback. But if Hillary wins, we have 8 years of moderate Conservatism plus at least 4 more because it's very unlikely for one party to hold the White House three consecutive times, so that means we'd have a Republican president come 2024.
Um... I'm sorry, what? "Far right" is definitely a new Hillary accusation I've heard. You're basically saying you don't like her because she's too far to the right relative to your political position. It's also important to note that Hillary Clinton will have to lead based on her campaign platform if she wants to be reelected, i.e. even if she's against gay marriage personally, she won't be able to take action to stop it if she wants to be reelected. Also, you have no idea just how much damage the Donald could do in just four years. Sure, maybe the GOP will get the White House in 2024, but I think that would be better than letting Donald Trump do any kind of damage to the whole country now.

Also - Donald Trump doesn't even need to get elected to taint the GOP's image. He's doing that just by running, so that furthers my point that if the Republicans want the White House in 2024, they're gonna have to nominate a more moderate candidate.
 

Legitimate Username

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This election cycle has been very disappointing for Progressives. There is huge speculation about Hillary rigging the Democratic Primary, which I happen to believe, as Hillary won my county's primary by 80% and I know the people around here much preferred Bernie.

Then there's Trump's shenanigans that should have cost him the election back in the first debate, but the GOP base has shown its true colors, as they don't care, and are also hypocrites because they call foul if a Democrat does half of what Trump does.

My initial hope as a Progressive was a Trump victory (put the pitchforks down and let me explain), as Hillary is simply too far right to fix the problems facing our country, and in her leaked speeches, she outright mocks Progressive ideals. Yes, in a vacuum, Hillary is better than Trump, but this is a game of chess, not checkers. Trump would be such a terrible president that he would not win a second term, and he would stain the GOP's name for a long time, giving Progressives a huge advantage in the future. So after 4 years, we could elect a real Progressive like Bernie or Warren with little GOP pushback. But if Hillary wins, we have 8 years of moderate Conservatism plus at least 4 more because it's very unlikely for one party to hold the White House three consecutive times, so that means we'd have a Republican president come 2024.

But since many mainstream Republicans are backing away from Trump, most notably Paul Ryan and John McCain, I'm not sure if I can even have that little sliver of hope for the future.

Sorry for the bleak post, but I truly see no clear path to a better future any time soon, but same-sex marriage states went from 0-50 in less than 10 years, so perhaps we can hope for another miracle.
The presidency isn't everything.

Every single progressive ideal will die under a Trump presidency, especially when so many supreme court seats are at stake. It could easily take a full generation to come back from a blow that massive. Under Clinton, senate powerhouses like Sanders and Warren can continue to have a serious impact and change things for the better, as opposed to having everything they do vetoed by that orange idiot. I'm not the biggest fan of Clinton either, but the election is about so much more than just the presidency. There's a reason why Sanders is pushing so hard for people to vote for Clinton, it directly affects how much change he'll be able to bring through Congress, as well as many MANY other important factors that go far beyond which lizard is ends up living in the white house.

Don't talk about how you're playing "chess" when your strategy is essentially to light the board on fire and burn down your entire house the moment something doesn't go your way.
 
Plus I bet that Hillary will be far easier to reason and negotiate with than Trump. He and his supporters will mow down any progressive legislation, laws, and rulings that gets in the way of their values, objections be damned, because he is the prezidunt, and he was voted in by the masses, and he decree what he wants, and if he says that climate change isn't real, then it isn't real!!! Equal pay for women, minimum wage, pro-choice: not happening?

I really think this is what might happen. I don't think we've begun to see how nasty Trump can get.

And he, his followers, and family will laugh away while they shove their ultra-conservative values down our throats, and there really won't be anything we can do about it. Well, I suppose we could revolt like the Trump supporters have threatened to do, but Trump and his party would just call us traitors, and probably just sic the military and police on us, so yeah, if the Trump administration actually turns authoritarian, there might be nothing we can do that would be constructive. And I don't think that Hillary would be the only politician locked up. It wouldn't surprise me if they just go down the route of McCarthy, and declare anything they don't like "un-American". Sure we progressives could be all "I'm rubber, you're glue", but they'd still have control over the military...

Seriously, don't underestimate what a Trump administration might do. Or should I call it a regime?
 

Cresselia~~

Junichi Masuda likes this!!
As a foreigner, I still think that lots of people would say they'd vote for Hillary, but end up secretly voting for Trump.

Lots of people dislike immigrants, but are not open about their choices.
 
I think it's more the opposite with a bunch of people not admitting they will vote for Hillary but then will. We saw something similar like that in the primaries to an extent too.
 

UncleSam

Leading this village
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Pretty sure all we saw in the primaries was a bunch of people voting for Bernie then the DNC announcing Hillary won

Like is it even in dispute that the primaries were rigged

That being said yes Hillary is going to win the general lmao
 
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