Usage-Based Tier Update for January 2018 (Mar Changes @696)

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If he did MamoswineTTT right away, nobody would be complaining about it. Mons rise all the time due to RMTs or similar being posted and then spammed and the TTT series wouldn't be any different if he didn't start it with an unviable meme mon like Ambipom.
The reason people wouldn't immediately complain is because Mamoswine at least looks like something that could rise on its own. Once they found out it was the act of one youtuber who didn't like facing it in UU so he called his fans to let it rise, they'd probably get pissed too.

If mons rise because or RMTs that's because those RMTs are actually good. Ambipom rose because one guy THOUGHT it was good, and a skeptical look on the battles he did with it show that it absolutely isn't. Mamoswine is decent in OU and finds its place on quite some teams, but its niche is not big enough to actually reside in it, especially considering the tier has so many good Ground-types already (Exca, Garchomp, Staplefag Lando...)
 
Reasons why Silvally isn't that good:
-Lacks Recover
-Base stats of 95 are not too shabby, but not too high either.
-Having to sacrifice the item slot in order to change type is disappointing. It can't substitute a memory with a ZCrystal either, like Arceus.
-Fully defensive sets face heavy competition from its prevo Type:Null, who only has a lower speed stat, but defensive mons barely need that anyway.
-Lacks Recover

Also Garbodor really isn't that bad. Genwunners have to shut up as it's much better than their gods Charizard, Articuno and Raichu. (Not calling you a genwunner, mind that)
Ok im not a genwunner, and I don't hold raichu articuno or charizard in special regards, but..... why do people actually like Garbodor? It's literally a pile of shit and garbage clumped together given an ugly face and a tube. I like plenty of gen 5 mons but this is literally a pile of trash. I don't get why so many people have a crush on this trash pile. Also, while I'm not really attached to charizard, not seeing how a trash pile is "much better" than a fire breathing flying lizard
 
Ok im not a genwunner, and I don't hold raichu articuno or charizard in special regards, but..... why do people actually like Garbodor? It's literally a pile of shit and garbage clumped together given an ugly face and a tube. I like plenty of gen 5 mons but this is literally a pile of trash. I don't get why so many people have a crush on this trash pile. Also, while I'm not really attached to charizard, not seeing how a trash pile is "much better" than a fire breathing flying lizard
I was talking about Garbodor in competitive.

As for its design, I for some reason REALLY love its design, despite not knowing why. Garbodor, Muk, Weezing, Klinklang... All Pokémon that get hated for being "literal garbage" and "inanimate objects" by a large part of the fanbase, but I absolutely love them.
 
Ok im not a genwunner, and I don't hold raichu articuno or charizard in special regards, but..... why do people actually like Garbodor? It's literally a pile of shit and garbage clumped together given an ugly face and a tube. I like plenty of gen 5 mons but this is literally a pile of trash. I don't get why so many people have a crush on this trash pile. Also, while I'm not really attached to charizard, not seeing how a trash pile is "much better" than a fire breathing flying lizard
That trash pile has access to Toxic Spikes and Spikes for hazard stacking, which lets sweeper to, well, sweep better, "decent" offensive presence with 120 BP Stab Gunk Shot and with its good defensive typing on Poison it helps to check top NU threaths like Sceptile or Whimsicott, while Charizard fails to sweep at the NU tier due to its lackluster offensive stats.
 
I was talking about Garbodor in competitive.

As for its design, I for some reason REALLY love its design, despite not knowing why. Garbodor, Muk, Weezing, Klinklang... All Pokémon that get hated for being "literal garbage" and "inanimate objects" by a large part of the fanbase, but I absolutely love them.
And that's fine, i'm just curious why people like it. I for one, love muk a lot.
 
Charizard fails to sweep at the NU tier due to its lackluster offensive stats.
While Bellyzard and DD have become unviable, Charizard is actually really decent. New hazard control, which also caused Moltres to rise in usage, really helped it. With Z-Sunny Day, it gets a speed boost as well as the equivalent of a Choice Specs boost, and then it can start firing off sun-boosted Fire attacks and Solar Beam bulky waters. It's even finding use on some UU teams, and frankly, it actually is a little viable. Emphasis on a little.
 
Imagine if a mon had failed to be banned via suspect test from a non-OU tier so someone who disagreed did this to force the mon out of the tier, against the wishes of the community as reflected by the suspect vote.
Bit late on this, but the most recent suspect test hasn't gotten even 30 people eligible to vote. Do you think 30 people represent an entire community?
 
Once they found out it was the act of one youtuber who didn't like facing it in UU so he called his fans to let it rise, they'd probably get pissed too.
This is a ridiculous accusation, Joey picked Mamoswine for the next TTT series because he thinks it's underrated in OU. And the prevalence of other Ground types(in reality, only Landorus-T is actually prevalent among those you mentioned, but the point still stands) is if anything an argument in favor of Mamo because it will break them easily.
 
If he did MamoswineTTT right away, nobody would be complaining about it. Mons rise all the time due to RMTs or similar being posted and then spammed and the TTT series wouldn't be any different if he didn't start it with an unviable meme mon like Ambipom.
Basically this. Azelf actually rose to OU at one point due to a Bird Spam HO (I think it was xtrashine’s?) being spammed on the ladder. Stuff like this isn’t really new.
 
Anyone wanna get shuckle to ou?
Starting a series called shuckles surging shell smash!
I just need a donation of 80k subs
um no NU actually needs shuckle, especially web teams

well with ambipom rising, cinccino now gets to avoid dropping to PU for a while (look at their stats and movepool, ambipom completely and utterly outclasses cinccino in every aspect)

This is a ridiculous accusation, Joey picked Mamoswine for the next TTT series because he thinks it's underrated in OU. And the prevalence of other Ground types(in reality, only Landorus-T is actually prevalent among those you mentioned, but the point still stands) is if anything an argument in favor of Mamo because it will break them easily.
Mamo might be viable in OU, as it beats lando and (non-grass knot) koko, the two most common OU mons. Yes, it is weak to priority such as water shuriken but it could fit on more offensive teams, maybe as a sr lead on hyper offense (though is ho viable in ou, idk). The problem is, stealing it from UU makes it so much harder for UU to deal with gliscor, latias, and setup sweepers such as dd m-alt, contrary serp, etc.
 
um no NU actually needs shuckle, especially web teams

well with ambipom rising, cinccino now gets to avoid dropping to PU for a while (look at their stats and movepool, ambipom completely and utterly outclasses cinccino in every aspect)



Mamo might be viable in OU, as it beats lando and (non-grass knot) koko, the two most common OU mons. Yes, it is weak to priority such as water shuriken but it could fit on more offensive teams, maybe as a sr lead on hyper offense (though is ho viable in ou, idk). The problem is, stealing it from UU makes it so much harder for UU to deal with gliscor, latias, and setup sweepers such as dd m-alt, contrary serp, etc.
UU like every lower tier is inherently susceptible to having mons "stolen". If you can't deal with that you should stick to OU.
 
Mamo might be viable in OU, as it beats lando and (non-grass knot) koko, the two most common OU mons. Yes, it is weak to priority such as water shuriken but it could fit on more offensive teams, maybe as a sr lead on hyper offense (though is ho viable in ou, idk). The problem is, stealing it from UU makes it so much harder for UU to deal with gliscor, latias, and setup sweepers such as dd m-alt, contrary serp, etc.

All examples of mons that can handle all or most of what you listed. You say that as if there's nothing else in the lower tiers besides Mamoswine that can stop the mons you listed. I mean, Mamo doesn't even OHKO Mega Altaria from full with Ice Shard after rocks and dies to +1 Frustration after rocks anyways.
 

All examples of mons that can handle all or most of what you listed. You say that as if there's nothing else in the lower tiers besides Mamoswine that can stop the mons you listed. I mean, Mamo doesn't even OHKO Mega Altaria from full with Ice Shard after rocks and dies to +1 Frustration after rocks anyways.
While Mega Aero and Scizor are fine choices, Mega Aboma only fits on Trick Room (for which the Stakataka hype is starting to fade off a bit) and Sneasel is plain unviable in UU.
 
While Mega Aero and Scizor are fine choices, Mega Aboma only fits on Trick Room (for which the Stakataka hype is starting to fade off a bit) and Sneasel is plain unviable in UU.
What would theoretically make Sneasel an unviable choice in UU, especially in the scenario that Mamoswine leaves UU? It handles everything that the post I commented on said, and the reason no one uses it rn is because Mamoswine currently fits that strong and relatively-fast Ice-type niche. If Mamo were to leave UU due to Mamoswine TTT, I think Sneasel would make a fine alternative to handle those specific key threats. The best part is that Mamoswine can't even OHKO Serperior and Latias with Ice Shard, whereas Sneasel outspeeds and OHKOs both with Icicle Crash.

Also, I'm sure Mega Abomasnow has some sort of use outside of TR on Bulky Offense teams, for instance.
 
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I'll say it one last time:
The problem is not that Ambipom got into UU.
The problem is that he's intending to take actual important mons like Mamoswine out of the tier.
Mamoswine is actually being nommed for a rise to B in OU right now, solely because it's incredibly anti-meta right now. It threatens Koko immensely, it threatens Lando immensely, it gets rocks up while doing so, it has a crucial electric immunity, and its STABs give it extremely few safe switchins. And Magnezone - an already strong mon in OU - is Mamoswine's best partner because it eliminates every Mamoswine counter and most of its Steel-type checks.

So honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if people started using it a lot more in OU naturally. Aim's just speeding things up a bit.
 
The reason people wouldn't immediately complain is because Mamoswine at least looks like something that could rise on its own. Once they found out it was the act of one youtuber who didn't like facing it in UU so he called his fans to let it rise, they'd probably get pissed too.
I think you're misunderstanding Joey's purpose. He pushing for Mamoswine because he thinks it's a good mon in OU that threatens a lot with its dual stab and offensive pressure. This has nothing to do with the fact that Joey may or may not like fighting Mamo in UU. I would like to ask how you got that idea and what makes you think that Joey hates fighting Mamo in UU.
 
Okay, to be honest, saying that he just didn't like facing mamoswine was a little too impulsuve. I apologize.

I'm just pretty pissed that he demonstrated how he can just turn the entire usage-based tiering system at his hand and isn't even bothering to stop. There's a difference between something rising since it's legit good in a tier, and somethinh rising since someone thinks it's good and a whole hive mind blindly follows him. Really, I've used Mamoswine once, and it can work, but requires so much support that you're better off using Garchomp, Zygarde or Excadrill, or Staplefag. It's an okay niche attacker but indeed, just okay and niche--some teams find it exactly what they're looking for while others just want to use more independent Ground-types. Mamoswine looks like a decent anti-meta threat, being able to kill Koko and Lando, but it also loses to other common mons like both Greninja, Skarm and Steela, Rotom-W and Mega Scizor. An arguably better anti-meta Ground-type is Mega Camerupt, who can at least threaten those Steel-types, isn't susceptible to burns and deal more damage to Greninja should it switch in.
 
I know I'm late to the party, but i wanna give my two cents on the PU drops that happend (going to ignore Ambipom to not spark further disscution on it)

Torkoal:
Pretty sad to see this one go down to PU once more. Got a buff this gen with Drought, but with said ability being banned in PU and also having it's role as a stealh rock setter completly outclassed by the likes of other setters (e.g. Regirock), it has to rely on Shell Smash to maybe find a little niche.

Dugtrio:
And so, it's descent to PU has ended. I can imagien this mon having a small niche in PU, namely with a choice band set. However, it is a lot worse without Arena Trap and the alolan form also being in PU.

Smeargle:
Can probaly work as a hazard setter, but with USUM giving much more pokemon Defog (allowing for much easier hazard removal), other hazard setters being actully able to do more than just use hazards, aswell as being total set up food for pokemon such as Lilligant and most Sap Sipper users, I can say that it'll probaly not be all that good in the tier.

Thanks for reading and have a nice day.
 
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Smeargle:
Can probaly work as a hazard setter, but with USUM giving much more pokemon Defog (allowing for much easier hazard removal), other hazard setters being actully able to do more than just use hazards, aswell as being total set up food for pokemon such as Lilligant and most Sap Sipper users, I can say that it'll probaly not be all that good in the tier.

Thanks for reading and have a nice day.
The only reason it's not good in NU is because webs are bad even when up, not because webs are hard to get up.
 
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