Data Usage-Based Tier Update for October 2018 (Nov @ #65) (Dec @ #77)

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Arcanine moved from UU to RU
-Mission Accomplished. RTB for debrief.

Latios-Mega moved from OU to UU
-I can't see this not catching the qb. normal has a shot though.
 
My bad could've sworn I saw it in the drops.

Anyway I've given Arcanine a go in RU and it's brilliant, best physical Fire Type IMO. Hits hard and fairly bulky as well, not to mention much faster than Marowak and Emboar.
 
Arcanine dropped? REALLY? Wow, I never expected UU lowladder to finally realize how terrible it is. I don't know how popular it'll be in RU though with Mega Toise being everywhere and the many grasses are already handled by Salazzle and Ninetales (rise is 100% deserved btw, but honestly I expected Barbaracle to rise as well) but its access to Wild Charge might give it a niche in being able to beat the newly dropped Mantine. Speaking of Mantine, this thing might actually cause a massive drop in Roserade's viability that was growing at an extremely fast pace lately... or it can just switch its Hidden Power to Electric and continue not to care.

Seismitoad dropped to NU again, right when it was actually becoming quite decent in UU. And with quite decent I mean more than C- stuff that's hopelessly outclassed by Swampert.

Latias is probably gonna drop to RU next shift as well with its blue brother joining and outclassing a good part of its sets (unless Latios and its Mega get banned to UUBL, which I can see happen for the Mega but idk about base form). Idk about what Zer is gonna do, Bish looks fun though. *storms into teambuilder*
 
Visual version of the shifts!

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Velcroc said:
Right, so the shifts totally messed up what I was about to write. Let's see where I can pick up the slack.



Not much to comment on here. Kyurem is a bit weird considering how it does very well vs bulkier archetypes but it's understandable considering building with it is as tricky as it is. Did not expect Lucario rising but I suppose it's special sets can break past common cores and that Gliscor's rise means that it loses a potent check. But this happened the last time, so I don't expect it maintaining its UU position for long. Rotom-Heat is a fantastic sciz check, bird check, defogger and solid pivot and absolutely deserves the rise. Slowbro-M also deserves the rise. Even though regular is much more splashable, Mega offers a much more potent CM sweeper.



Ninetails deserves the rise. THE best fire type in RU right now. Might as well put in a few words for Emboar here. It's heartening to see the experimentation with this mon. It certainly isn't a top tier threat and is nowehere close to being the best fighting type but it does manage to wallbreak under certain match ups. Not great but certainly passable.

Well, Arcanine finally dropped to RU, to the relieve of many. As for how it will be in RU, tough to say. But the presence of sun in ninetails means that it has a much more well-defined niche as a ninetails check (although houndoom is much better for that role). It could also attempt intimidate shenanigans with it's bulky sets. Mixed sets could also be something that could take off. Band works in theory but in practice emboar is simply better. Past sets could be experimented on and brought to light. I'd see this mon somewhere in the B ranks on the merit of its bulky set which dissuades switch-ins from mons such as gligar, rhyp and tyrantrum by virtue of will'o wisp. Arcanine has the potential to be an amazing mon but metagame trends do work against it. This might be the best the canine has been in a long while.

Mantine will certainly make a splash in the tier. It honestly feels weird seeing mantine drop without such ceremony. For what it's worth, it's a terrific check to mons such as Ninetails and non-rock slide Gollisopod and possibly countering the infamous Mega Stoise. I can see it being in the A ranks but that's based on past assumptions since quite a lot has changed since Mantine was last here.

If I remember correctly, Seismotoad was being experimented with in RU shortly before it rose to UU. I don't remember it ever catching on in the tier (it was somewhere in the C-ranks) but I think the hype behind it might push for some experimentation with its sets. During the breloom meta in UU, sets like E-belt, Life orb and even Z were being used to lure mons and I can see something similar happen here. Alternatively, the set of choice might also be a bulky one (similar to what swamp runs). The main thing going for it is that it's a decent switch-in to mega stoise - an accolade which few rockers in the tier can boast. Maybe I'm blinded by the hype, but honestly, I can see seis putting in work


Incineroar and the rise of Slowbro really didn't bode well for this mon; which is a shame because this is a fantastic mon in UU. I can imagine having a much larger impact on the PU metagame. I doubt it will be as centralising as bro or that it will magically lead to the drops of the PUBL Fires/Fightings, Tauros, Samurrott or Archeops since it's very easily pressured. But for what it's worth, it's a terrific bulky water with the ability to turn the tables in taunt. Water absorb is also nifty to have.


Broken, Simply Broken. It has it all: lighting fast speed, solid coverage, reliable boosting move and lack of proper switch-ins. Still doesn't appreciate offensive pressure in scarfers and priority nor the recoil from STAB/missing Jump Kick.


From what I've heard, Kingler is a pretty decent breaker. It's doing a remarkable job despite its lacklustre coverage and speed and competition with the Otter (which can better run Z and mixed).


Quagsire was pretty intimidating to face during PU beta. While PU has certainly changed (and might have even become a bit hostile to quag), Quagsire itself won't change much, if at all. Competition from Pyuku is the biggest threat to it and the reason it may not be as prevalant as it was in beta.



Bisharp is most definitely going to be a threat to watch out for. Last time it was here, it had to contend with Keldeo and Cobalion being everywhere and the presence of Conkeldurr. Compared to before, Bisharp has much more oppurtunities to set up. SD sets with either life orb, black glass/dread plate or Z would be this mon's bread and butter with AoA sets being viable. Personally though, I'm not too much of a fan of AoA sets as even though they fix sharp's problem of fitting coverage, I feel hey don't have the same oomph as SD. A fantastic offensive threat but I highly doubt this would be broken. The rise in slack off ape, kommo-o and the flexibility of it's checks (read: chople berry cobalion) prevent it from being insurmountable. Can't predict it impacts on teambuilding.

Zeraora is also another mon that is unlikely to be broken. The main issue with this mon is that it doesn't really have anything that can deal with most of its answers. Sure it's got lures, it's got plenty of 'em, but every set has some surefire check. Almost every set without grass knot is countered in some way by Hippowdon and special walls (such as blissey, sylv, florges) beat sets without a dedicated z-move/lure. The speed tier is nice and all but it loses to Mega-Aero and Scarf Krook which are two of the best trappers right now in UU. I doubt the sets would change much from what was briefly used for OU - which, let's be real, was pretty froced to begin with. It would be nice to see this mon develop but it's not competing with Mega Manectric any time soon. I'm open to criticism for this mon since I'm just not sure exactly how it'll end up being. It certainly has the tools to become a spectacular offensive threat but those all work on paper. In practice, it's a lot more expedient to use an electric type mon that can actually pivot much more easily and reliably (read: Manectric/Rotom).

Latios, I'm iffy about. It might be a bit problematic for balance builds in UU with it's ability to freely run mixed sets and much more potent CM sets. But thanks to its lower bulk, there are plenty of offensive threats that keep it in check such as Scarf Krook and Band scizor . Might be an issue much, much later in the metagame but there is a possibility it will stay. If it does, it's worth noting that it does not outclass Latias entirely since it lacks the bulk and access to healing wish of the latter (exchanges it for memento though).

Mega Latios is banworthy on paper. It has the ability to break past would be trapper in Muk-Alola with EQ and dent special walls with a power psyshock. Add to that, decent bulk, workable speed, solid coverage and UU's history with Mega Lati@s all adds to a recipe for a ban. Can;t say for certain, but this mon is certainly up for suspect. I would heavily disgaree with a quickban though.

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Right, that's about it. I think. Not exactly cutting edge analysis here but there's only so much you can do with a rehashed script at 11 in the night.

Edits: Quite a few but most were with wording, sentences and grammar (post sscript editing). I was about to add stuff about how zeraora sets are always outclassed by something else but I think that's a pretty contentious topic and would make good a good topic for debate in the UU NP page. Also, 11pm.
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Agreed, although can someone explain why Mega Latios dropped but not Mega Latias? And why is the former in UU and not UUBL?
 
bowserbrowser said:
Agreed, although can someone explain why Mega Latios dropped but not Mega Latias? And why is the former in UU and not UUBL?
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Mega Latias is already banned from UU as it was suspected a long time ago and was deemed broken. It's already technically UU by usage in the first place and has been banned from the tier due to being unhealthy for the metagame.

Mega Latios on the other hand just dropped out of OU and it and base Latios only just fell below the OU/UU cutoff by usage this tier shift. Mega Latios isn't UUBL currently because it hasn't been UU long enough for the council to make any decision on whether to quickban/suspect it or not. Time will tell if it proves itself broken for the meta and gets banned, though given its immense bulk and power and great typing and speed tier, I'm pretty positive it will most likely become UUBL in the near future.

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Escavalier Royale said:
Latias is probably gonna drop to RU next shift as well with its blue brother joining and outclassing a good part of its sets (unless Latios and its Mega get banned to UUBL, which I can see happen for the Mega but idk about base form). Idk about what Zer is gonna do, Bish looks fun though. *storms into teambuilder*
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Also regarding this. I don't think Latios will fully invalidate Latias's existence in the tier, and I imagine she will still be relevant even with Latios around. Latias may not have the raw power of Latios, but the extra bulk it provides is very nifty and makes it better at switching into/soft checking threats such as Infernape, Celebi, Starmie, Zeraora, etc. It has more raw bulk to make it a better offensive pivot/utility Pokemon to check threats and provide some offensive support. Latios will probably outclass the LO/Scarf set and pull off better offensive sets, but Latias's bulk will still very much be appreciated in certain situations. Healing Wish is also clutch to work with wincons like DD Kommo-o and give them a second shot at a sweep if needed. It will be less used, yeah, and probably drop from S with Latios taking over that spot, but I imagine it will still be relatively common: it has some pretty valuable aspects that will likely keep it used in the tier.
 
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ScraftyIsTheBest said:
Mega Latias is already banned from UU as it was suspected a long time ago and was deemed broken. It's already technically UU by usage in the first place and has been banned from the tier due to being unhealthy for the metagame.

Mega Latios on the other hand just dropped out of OU and it and base Latios only just fell below the OU/UU cutoff by usage this tier shift. Mega Latios isn't UUBL currently because it hasn't been UU long enough for the council to make any decision on whether to quickban/suspect it or not. Time will tell if it proves itself broken for the meta and gets banned, though given its immense bulk and power and great typing and speed tier, I'm pretty positive it will most likely become UUBL in the near future.

EDIT:


Also regarding this. I don't think Latios will fully invalidate Latias's existence in the tier, and I imagine she will still be relevant even with Latios around. Latias may not have the raw power of Latios, but the extra bulk it provides is very nifty and makes it better at switching into/soft checking threats such as Infernape, Celebi, Starmie, Zeraora, etc. It has more raw bulk to make it a better offensive pivot/utility Pokemon to check threats and provide some offensive support. Latios will probably outclass the LO/Scarf set and pull off better offensive sets, but Latias's bulk will still very much be appreciated in certain situations. Healing Wish is also clutch to work with wincons like DD Kommo-o and give them a second shot at a sweep if needed. It will be less used, yeah, and probably drop from S with Latios taking over that spot, but I imagine it will still be relatively common: it has some pretty valuable aspects that will likely keep it used in the tier.
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I’ve also seen both Latis being used in one team and it surprisingly works. The extra firepower brought from both twins allows both of them to eventually overpower their checks.
 
ScraftyIsTheBest said:
Also regarding this. I don't think Latios will fully invalidate Latias's existence in the tier, and I imagine she will still be relevant even with Latios around. Latias may not have the raw power of Latios, but the extra bulk it provides is very nifty and makes it better at switching into/soft checking threats such as Infernape, Celebi, Starmie, Zeraora, etc. It has more raw bulk to make it a better offensive pivot/utility Pokemon to check threats and provide some offensive support. Latios will probably outclass the LO/Scarf set and pull off better offensive sets, but Latias's bulk will still very much be appreciated in certain situations. Healing Wish is also clutch to work with wincons like DD Kommo-o and give them a second shot at a sweep if needed. It will be less used, yeah, and probably drop from S with Latios taking over that spot, but I imagine it will still be relatively common: it has some pretty valuable aspects that will likely keep it used in the tier.
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I'm fully aware that Latias will still be a great mon in UU even with Latios around, but... We're talking about the UU ladder. The same ladder that has kept a shitmon like Arcanine for who knows how long while dropping a mon that directly outclasses it (and wasn't too great either) months earlier, that kept Forretress around for way too long even though tons of mons randomly run HP Fire for its fellow Bug/Steel Scizor, and that freaking let a D rank NU rise and stay for longer than a month. I'm pretty sure a large part of ladder players will just think "oh, it has 20 more SpA, let's run this instead for all of our sets."

Then again, who knows, maybe they'll surprise me once more.
 
Latios in UU was something I didn’t know I wanted something so badly. Mons is actually starting to look enjoyable again.

Genuinely sounds like OU but with less power creep. I appreciate whatever strong offensive prescence UU gets.
 
I don't play the lower tiers that much, so I won't comment about any of those drops, except maybe Arcanine. Arcanine has been stuck up in UU for way to long. Glad it's finally somewhere where it isn't dead weight to the tier. Alright, now into the ones that matter as far as UU is concerned:

Mega Latios: This pokemon is without a doubt getting banned. It's amazing stats and stellar coverage allow it to break even pokemon made to check its counterpart Latias, such as Alolan Muk, with Earthquake. It has settup, recovery, good speed, and good bulk. Hello UUBL for Mega Latios.

Latios: As Velcroc said, I'm also kinda iffy about this mon. Yes it's a powerful breaker that can run alot of sets, but it doesn't absolutely run rampant. It's offensively checked by mons such as Banded Scizor and Scarf Krook as Velcroc also mentioned. It may get suspected, but it'll probably stay in the tier.

Bisharp: Oh boy. Defoggers beware, Bisharp is in UU now. This mon is scary by itself, but with webs...oh boy. Good luck playing around this mon. With STAB Knock Off with access to SD and Iron Head to complement Knock Off, and Sucker Punch to round it off, Bisharp has alot of tools to use against the UU meta. However it gets demolished by every fighting type ever and is also weak to Fire and Ground. Overall, Bish should make home in the UU tier.

Zeraora: Roadrunner is in the tier now boys. Zeraora has a stellar speedtier for not being a Mega. It has access to a plethora of moves it can make sets with including, but not limited to: Grass Knot, Iron Tail (smacks Mega Altaria), Taunt, Close Combat, Bulk Up, Calm Mind, Fire Punch, etc. This mon is going to be scary to face either way, just because of how many possible lure sets it could be running. I could only really think of a couple answers overall to this mon: Mega Altaria (If not running Iron Tail), Gligar (If it's not running HP Ice), Doublade (Unless Zera runs Fire Punch), Spdef Hippo (eats the Gknot and KOs with quake), the Eon Twins (if not running Knock Off), and finally either Physdef Celebi (Knock Off/ Fire punch gets rid of that) or Amoongus (Fire Punch/Z Bounce). Zera appears like another random drop from OU, but it is truly a scary mon in the tier I feel.
 
King Roma said:
Now watch as it rises to OU
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I doubt that will happen - Gastrodon can check Ash-Greninja, which is always helpful. Quagsire literally has no niche - Clefable can do Unaware better while Toxapex does the whole bulky Water better.

Then again, Ambipom did rise to UU so...never say never
 
ChrystalFalchion said:
I doubt that will happen - Gastrodon can check Ash-Greninja, which is always helpful. Quagsire literally has no niche - Clefable can do Unaware better while Toxapex does the whole bulky Water better.

Then again, Ambipom did rise to UU so...never say never
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You forgot to mention that Pyukumuku is just a better pick for an Unaware mon too.
 
BackAtYouBro said:
You forgot to mention that Pyukumuku is just a better pick for an Unaware mon too.
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Eh I wouldn't go that far. Quagsire provides a useful Electric immunity and isn't set up fodder for anything with Substitute. To be honest they're both completely outclassed in OU by Clefable anyway.
 
ChrystalFalchion said:
Eh I wouldn't go that far. Quagsire provides a useful Electric immunity and isn't set up fodder for anything with Substitute. To be honest they're both completely outclassed in OU by Clefable anyway.
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A quick read of the current VR would inform you that both Quag and Pyuk are completely viable stall picks (and no, neither are completely outclassed by clef)
 
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