Resource USM OU Role Compendium

Alolan Marowak should also be listed as a stallbreaker, as stall's common mons (Mega Sab, Skarm, Toxapex, Chansey, Unaware Clef, Zapdos) either can't touch it, can't switch in safely, or both. Even more important are that Duggy can't trap it (being a ghost type) and it doesn't have to waste a moveslot to cover Shedinja, unlike Manaphy* or Tapu Bulu*.

It is already listed as a wallbreaker, but its adeptness at punishing common stall builds, as discussed above, should be emphasized.

Wak is more splashable than many of the other stallbreakers and fits into bulky offense (the dominant playstyle atm) fairly well while not being deadweight against balance/offense the way other dedicated stallbreakers tend to be. It gets rocks up versus stall too.

As far as sets go:

Marowak @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightningrod
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Swords Dance
-Fire Punch
-Shadow Bone
-Earthquake

The EVs clearly aren't optimized but it's meant to have decent bulk and hit hard. Fire Punch>Blitz since it hits like a truck at +2 and makes Lightningrod available so it can check electrics. Other coverage is standard. SD could be replaced with rocks or wisp if needed for the team, but Wak will be a less potent (yet still capable) breaker.

*Manaphy's HP Fire/Shadow Ball and Bulu's Stone Edge aren't wasted coverage against balance/offence, but against stall teams, they only hit Shed for SE damage and are otherwise hugely outclassed by other coverage options.
 
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i have some tips:
-i commented this one in the oras role compendium: remove all "stallbreakers that are beaten by mega sableye, nothing that is countered by mega sab can be considered a stallbreaker, so i would remove mew and reuniclus from this role, bulu, marowak, kartana and xukitree can destroy SM stall(even that marowak have some problems with quagsire, and kartana/xukitree need duggy removed first, but duggy can take a lot of stallbreakers like lele and heatran); fightium-z + NP thundurus-t looks to be an option as a stallbreaker, but i didn't test it yet
-add waterium scolipede and omastar;
-add flyium talonflame(from top tier to niche, in one gen change);
-add smeargle to suicide leads;

edit: crawdaunt/hoopa-u/band ttar/band kyube can KO/2KO all stall mons including shedinja, but they are all dugtrio bait, even tought i think is worth to put them in the stallberakers role, since things like lele and heatran also have trouble with dugtrio, but pls remove mew and reuniclus, they are dead weight against stall tnks to mega sab.
 
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Does Mega Metagross ever actually run Stealth Rock? I'd rather use something else as my Rocker and not gimp Mega Meta's coverage.
Even if you want to run a set-up/utility option in that last slot, Agility (hell, even Hone Claws) would be better. I think that Mega Metagross CAN run Stealth Rock...but it really never should.
 
Thank you for compiling this compendium, p2!! It was very nice of you to take the time to do this :) I appreciate your helpfulness and effort :D

One more thing that might help a few people is if you added a section for memento users. I know Dugtrio is a good user of memento. Apart from that - Latios, Alolan Muk, and Whimsicott also learn memento, with the latter being a prankster 'mon. I am not sure if these guys can use memento as effectively as Dugtrio can, though...
 

Jase Duken

Formerly Jase The World
I would also add scoilpede in suicide lead because of endeavor/toxic spikes+spikes/toxic. Taunt+Nature madness find does a pretty good job against stall too and can help break down defensive threats
 

Martin

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Re: SR Metagross talk

The set is kind of valid given that it is generally a role compression tool; as far as rockers go, you could do a lot worse than Megagross--it's got a lot of offensive presence, and it gets a tonne of opportunities to lay due to forcing switches vs. stuff like Tapu Lele, Toxapex, Mamoswine, Amoonuguss, MVenu, Tapu Bulu etc. while 2HKOing Mega Sableye. The key drawback of this is obviously that you can't run coverage, BP or Pursuit if you're carrying it, but the flipside of this is that on a lot of teams you will have more than enough that can cover the slots that would be used on those, and as such if you lack a SR user it can be plugged onto MMeta without that much backlash. Something like Stealth Rock+Thunder Punch allows it to beat Defoggers it baits out such as Skarmory too, which means that it isn't even like it has that issue either.

It's obviously nowhere near as threatening or dominant as 4 Atks or even Agiligross, but it has enough going for it to warrant being on there.
 
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toshimelonhead

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is a Tiering Contributor
Alolan Marowak should also be listed as a stallbreaker, as stall's common mons (Mega Sab, Skarm, Toxapex, Chansey, Unaware Clef, Zapdos) either can't touch it, can't switch in safely, or both. Even more important are that Duggy can't trap it (being a ghost type) and it doesn't have to waste a moveslot to cover Shedinja, unlike Manaphy* or Tapu Bulu*.

It is already listed as a wallbreaker, but its adeptness at punishing common stall builds, as discussed above, should be emphasized.

Wak is more splashable than many of the other stallbreakers and fits into bulky offense (the dominant playstyle atm) fairly well while not being deadweight against balance/offense the way other dedicated stallbreakers tend to be. It gets rocks up versus stall too.

As far as sets go:

Marowak @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightningrod
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Swords Dance
-Fire Punch
-Shadow Bone
-Earthquake

The EVs clearly aren't optimized but it's meant to have decent bulk and hit hard. Fire Punch>Blitz since it hits like a truck at +2 and makes Lightningrod available so it can check electrics. Other coverage is standard. SD could be replaced with rocks or wisp if needed for the team, but Wak will be a less potent (yet still capable) breaker.

*Manaphy's HP Fire/Shadow Ball and Bulu's Stone Edge aren't wasted coverage against balance/offence, but against stall teams, they only hit Shed for SE damage and are otherwise hugely outclassed by other coverage options.
The optimized spread for that set is 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe Adadmant to outspeed Min Speed Chansey. Rock Head over Lightningrod, too, because Flare Blitz gets the OHKO on Chansey and Fire Punch does not come close.
 
The optimized spread for that set is 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe Adadmant to outspeed Min Speed Chansey. Rock Head over Lightningrod, too, because Flare Blitz gets the OHKO on Chansey and Fire Punch does not come close.
The analysis lists 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe Adamant as standard, so that could work as well. If wak's role on the team is simply wall/stallbreaking then your spread is best; however, the versatility of a faster spread with Lightningrod enables wak to fit onto more teams even though it's less powerful. Personally I like the extra speed since it outruns most Mega Scizors and whatever else runs less than 189 speed, such as Skarmory and Celesteela. It beats them all 1v1 but if any can outspeed then they can KO a weakened wak. I do like being able to spam Flare Blitz so that's always an option.

Also wak should always pack bonemerang over EQ as it isn't affected by Grassy Terrain and breaks subs/sashes. The decrease in power/accuracy isn't a big problem.

+2 252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Fire Punch vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 514-606 (80 - 94.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Chansey is set-up fodder for wak and +2 Fire Punch still hits incredibly hard. Chansey only needs to be worn down a bit (pivoting with Volturn, having to tank a random special attack earlier in the game, etc) to be in range, so I don't think the need for Rock Head Flare Blitz is too great. It's up to you though.
 

Martin

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I think we're using 2 different Chansey spreads here. I know 4/252/252 is the standard, but it's not optimal. See this for details. I should definitely try the max speed set on Wak myself.
That spread isn't good or optimal. Max Def/SpD is better due to the higher net gain in bulk courtesy of how disgustingly high Chansey's HP stat is making investing in it really pointless. Can people *please* stop pushing for max HP/close to max HP Chansey? It is not good in the same way that max HP A-Ninetales isn't good and slow A-Marowak spreads aren't good.
 

Wob

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Tentacruel should be added to Rapid Spin support as it has its niche.

Kartana should be added to defoggers as it can provide emergency hazard removal for teams really in need of it.
 
I think we're using 2 different Chansey spreads here. I know 4/252/252 is the standard, but it's not optimal. See this for details. I should definitely try the max speed set on Wak myself.
That spread isn't good or optimal. Max Def/SpD is better due to the higher net gain in bulk courtesy of how disgustingly high Chansey's HP stat is making investing in it really pointless. Can people *please* stop pushing for max HP/close to max HP Chansey? It is not good in the same way that max HP A-Ninetales isn't good and slow A-Marowak spreads aren't good.
I don't play stall, so I can't say which set is "better". But reading through the analysis-thread discussion... it appears that 244HP / 252 Def / 12 Sp. Def is not for "efficiency", but for hitting a specific number of surprise Psyshock and Pursuit magic-numbers.

There are basically two ways to kill Chansey:

* Physically (aka: Psyshock or Pursuit, since Chansey isn't switching into physical attackers)
* Specially (Requires Tail Glow Xurxitree and a Z-move or something else that can go to +3 quickly)

244HP actually does turn a number of Psyshocks and Pursuits (CB Tyranitar, Specs Latios) from 2HKOs into 3HKOs... with varying numbers of Stealth Rocks support. That seems useful for sure. However, 252 Def / 252 Sp. Def is standard for a reason. Its a solid walling / blob set and gets its job done... especially on the "standard stall" team.

At best, 244HP / 252 Def / 12 Sp. Def should be regarded as a niche Chansey set. Chansey needs every ounce of Sp. Def now that Z-moves are a thing. Chansey has begun to fall to Sp. Attacking Z-attackers... with just a little bit of chip damage.
 
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Martin

Alisa Bosconovitch Main
is a Forum Moderatoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
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I don't play stall, so I can't say which set is "better". But reading through the analysis-thread discussion... it appears that 244HP / 252 Def / 12 Sp. Def is not for "efficiency", but for hitting a specific number of surprise Psyshock and Pursuit magic-numbers.

There are basically two ways to kill Chansey:

* Physically (aka: Psyshock or Pursuit, since Chansey isn't switching into physical attackers)
* Specially (Requires Tail Glow Xurxitree and a Z-move or something else that can go to +3 quickly)

244HP actually does turn a number of Psyshocks and Pursuits (CB Tyranitar, Specs Latios) from 2HKOs into 3HKOs... with varying numbers of Stealth Rocks support. That seems useful for sure. However, 252 Def / 252 Sp. Def is standard for a reason. Its a solid walling / blob set and gets its job done... especially on the "standard stall" team.
The spread was only made because the dude running the thread wasn't listening to what anyone else was saying. I talked to the dude who made that spread on Discord after he posted it and he said that he thought the spread was arse and that he was only doing it to appease him (different words but I can't remember exactly what he said, just that the general gist was that the max SpD spread was better). The CB Tar 2HKO is circumvented by Softboiled combined with the fact that Pursuit can't hit boosted twice in a row, whereas Chansey isn't a very good Specs Latios answer anyway due to Trick (not to mention most run Psychic>Psyshock). The other thing is that the damage ranges overlap (see: 252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Crunch vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 292-345 (41.5 - 49.1%) / 252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Crunch vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 292-345 (45.4 - 53.7%)), which means that the difference is negligible to the point that the benefits are not sizable to warrant the drop in stat efficiency the vast majority of the time.
 
I'd like to suggest Keldeo for Normalium-Z, using Z-Hyper Beam and CM to break past a lot of its usual checks and counters such as Amoonguss, Tapu Fini, Toxapex, Mega Venusaur, etc.

Also, Metagross-Mega (and possibly Mew) should be added to the list of Agility/Rock Polish sweepers.
 
Add pyukumunku to walls(i would say mixed cause you can wall manaphy and volcarona, but your main goals are metagross, lando-t and salamance) and curse users(for baton pass in stall)
 

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