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whether a stall team should be featured or not in the current state of the metagame, due to the viability of the playstyle and finding a solid stall team can prove very challenging and would need to be explored more to make a final decision on this team.
Stall is viable, even with gothitelle in the tier if you really press yourself, but this particular team doesn't make much sense. I would run recycle muk > tyranitar because even though it has less bulk it has more useful support moves like knock off and having to heal bell a rest user is bad for teams. Even if you ran assault vest muk, wish support is slightly better than supporting a rest user. Also chople berry is hugely unreliable.
It also doesn't beat every hazard setter, as diancie will have a relatively easy time walling skarmory and killing giratina. This could be remedied by giving arceus defog but then gothitelle + diancie cores win.
smol edit: the ferrothorn set is good, and that mon in particular is also a really good place to start for stall due to its ability to beat most calm mind arceus forms, cm kyogre, and z-geomancy xerneas.
All in all a stall team would be appreciated but this aint it chief. At the moment I'm a fan of ditto stall and/or physically defensive sableye stall so both of those are good starting points for submitters.
Stall is viable, even with gothitelle in the tier if you really press yourself, but this particular team doesn't make much sense. I would run recycle muk > tyranitar because even though it has less bulk it has more useful support moves like knock off and having to heal bell a rest user is bad for teams. Even if you ran assault vest muk, wish support is slightly better than supporting a rest user. Also chople berry is hugely unreliable.
It also doesn't beat every hazard setter, as diancie will have a relatively easy time walling skarmory and killing giratina. This could be remedied by giving arceus defog but then gothitelle + diancie cores win.
smol edit: the ferrothorn set is good, and that mon in particular is also a really good place to start for stall due to its ability to beat most calm mind arceus forms, cm kyogre, and z-geomancy xerneas.
All in all a stall team would be appreciated but this aint it chief. At the moment I'm a fan of ditto stall and/or physically defensive sableye stall so both of those are good starting points for submitters.
muk doesn't check yveltal nor ho-oh....
diancie is only used in webs team with explosion and those are a good match up for this team...
you only uses rest against very fat team (which makes it super good against those kind of teams because of pp, statuts absorbing and sand damage)....
please try to think a bit more before saying random stuff...
Pros: Can effortlessly deal with nearly every team composition, has a great matchup against very common HO and web teams.
Cons: Very, very dual dance pdon weak (stay alert and you're fine), primal kyogre can be an issue. Slightly arceus-water/arceus-ground weak. Does not appreciate stall.
Playstyle: Take educated guesses on your opponents sets and carefully test them, once you got a clear image, you can afford staying in and wearing your opponent down. Ho-Oh is your go-to switch for most arceus formes, nearly every yveltal set, xerneas, necrozma-dm and pdon without stone edge. Main role is to sponge hits repeatedly, cautiously throw around toxics (beware of sub mons, though physical arceus-ground is not an issue) and keep the playing field free of rocks and other hazards. It's a good mon to catch a toxic or thunder wave on and deals fine with nearly every dedicated lead.
Arceus-Fairy is often one of the less required mons, it checks mega salamence and DD zygarde, does otherwise keep your side hazard free and sets up stealth rocks on expected hooh/necrozma switches, buying you a free switch. It can always come in on yveltal and marshadow and get back to full hp.
Groudon should be kept as healthy as possible for the longest time so you don't lose to kyogre. It lives one hit from +2 mega blaziken or a precipice blades from a non-adamant pdon, which depending on your enemies team composition you might want to trade for damage on opposing pdon. It comes in on magearna, ferrothorn, kyogre, tyranitar and some arceus formes and deals heavy damage with overheat, ohko'ing nearly every non defensive pokemon or costing giratina-o 40% of it's health. You don't appreciate being toxic'd on it, but it's not the end of the world. Stone edge may be replaced with hp ice to better deal with zygarde and often kill unsuspecting salamence, but stone edge gets you rid of ho-oh's after you bluffed overheat and weak precipice. 4 speed EV's to outspeed opposing defensive groudon.
Necrozma-DM *must* be kept healthy. Do NOT switch in to xerneas unless you are confident it's scarfed or poses no threat otherwise. Ho-Oh lives one thunder and can toxic opposing xerneas, but you will lose half your team dealing with it. You can bring this out to finish off slow groudons and get heavy damage on yveltal with sunsteel strike. Stay in DM form as long as you can, more often than not you can bluff an unexpected ultra at the end.
Yveltal: Speed control. It's often a fantastic lead because everything it struggles with, you have safe switches into. Outspeeds +1 Zygarde and 1v1's +2 zygarde-complete on 40%. Suprisingly often catches arceus-formes trying to recover up on you. Dark pulse does 40% to arceus ground, often allowing you 3-4 chances to flinch before it's out of range of two hits and you should switch into ho-oh. Deals perfectly well with marshadow, breaks sashes with u-turn (though, try not to give away the scarf unless needed). 2 hit ko's pdon unless it's full spdef, outspeeds after a thunder wave. Great mon to switch into coming from pdon.
Marshadow: Finishes pokes off, 2 hit ko'ing most of the meta with close combat. Hp ice to catch weakened zygarde on <85%. Answer to arceus-dark if need be and obviously e-killer. Don't throw this away, the speed control often comes in handy against xerneas, necrozma, or gengar. Gets rid of yveltal with close combat into sneak after rocks.
Whether this makes it into the list or not, it's the first team I've made when I started with ubers ~4 months ago. I didn't know any of the pokemon (never touched gen 5-7) and built it based on smogon viability rankings. After adjusting sets, it allowed me to peak the ladder and stay there comfortably. Mostly, it's just fun to play with.
I made this team to counter punch a super-majority of opposite teams and to just make Offense and Bulky Offense ragequit (believe me, it's happened a lot) and I got to 1814 points with it very recently so I believe it's a good one. The main idea behind this team was to take advantage of the fact that Goth is basically non-existent. With that in mind, I created a team with 6 Mons who I believe counter/check every single Pokemon in the tier.
I started off with the Arceus form and since I was going to make a defensive team, I went for Arc-Fairy to scare Mega-Sableye stall, which otherwise auto-wins in the long run. Next was Ho-oh, which provides a secondary defog (really helpful for Spikes and Toxic Spikes) and checks Dusk Mane and Mega Gengar for Arc-Fairy and a lot of other things in general. Zygarde takes care of the majority of physical attackers and acts as a status absorber. Haze was chosen over Dragon Tail because of the higher PP and accuracy, making it a lot more reliable overall. Along with Glare, it shuts down every setup attacker as long as Zygarde's healthy. Ferrothorn was added to prevent Kyogre from steamrolling through this team. It also act as a general Support Arceus switch-in and provides invaluable Spikes support. Dusk-Mane is next and fills out the mandatory Stealth Rock role, while also serving as a counter to Xerneas. Toxic lets it defeat a lot of defoggers 1v1. And lastly, Yveltal was included to (with this set) counter every single Dusk Mane/ Ultra Necro situation, except for +2 Z-move Dusk. It's EV'd to outspeed Adamant Dusk and Rock Polish Pdon in a pinch. In addition, it checks Z-move-Marshadow and prevents random Sword's Dance Arcei defeating this team.
In general though, Ho-oh. Ferrothorn and Dusk Mane together check the majority of the special metagame and Yveltal, Zygarde and Arc-Fairy check the entire physical metagame.
muk doesn't check yveltal nor ho-oh....
diancie is only used in webs team with explosion and those are a good match up for this team...
you only uses rest against very fat team (which makes it super good against those kind of teams because of pp, statuts absorbing and sand damage)....
please try to think a bit more before saying random stuff...
Ouch sorry if i sounded like an newcomer or something, I tried to make good points.
He already checks hooh with giratina, unless its banded, and banded beats tyranitar anyway. Tyranitar obviously has the stronger yveltal matchup but yveltal can play around it, especially defensive sets which wall rock slide and he has no sableye to block taunts. (not that muk is any better but i never named it as a check, it just performs pursuit a lot better). You're going to use rest against offense/balance when they spam sacred fires at you, right? It's not a strat for defensive teams only. One forced rest means you no longer pursuit trap things or beat focus blast users.
That diancie webs team will have a good matchup against this stall if you play decently, especially because they have no sableye meaning smeargle can actually do something. I'm not saying diancie is super common but it's on a sample team so? It's not unviable and even if its only used on webs like you say, a different team composition will 6-0 this stall or at least get up rocks and give it a hard time.
The team isn't bad and clearly thought about the meta, I just think some pokemon are sub-optimal on there.
That actually looks really cool. Mysterious M it's been a while. Also, I vote for the Standard DD Zygarde Bulky Offense | Provided by the Ubers Council team to be removed from the samples. I really liked the idea, but after testing for even just a little while, it's glaringly obvious that it flat out loses to webs and any fast setup mon such as SD necrozma Ultra, rock polish sd pdon, sd mega lucario, sd mega blaziken, calm mind ceus and many more - no matter which pokemon you currently have out. The yveltal typically fails to do much and the defog option limited to scarfed (modest??? that's terrible lol) xerneas doesn't allow for any continuous defense. Unless your opponent really throws, this team will have a very hard time winning.
That actually looks really cool. Mysterious M it's been a while. Also, I vote for the Standard DD Zygarde Bulky Offense | Provided by the Ubers Council team to be removed from the samples. I really liked the idea, but after testing for even just a little while, it's glaringly obvious that it flat out loses to webs and any fast setup mon such as SD necrozma Ultra, rock polish sd pdon, sd mega lucario, sd mega blaziken, calm mind ceus and many more - no matter which pokemon you currently have out. The yveltal typically fails to do much and the defog option limited to scarfed (modest??? that's terrible lol) xerneas doesn't allow for any continuous defense. Unless your opponent really throws, this team will have a very hard time winning.
This team thrives on having both its webs and rocks/spikes up. Having both Ultra Double Dance Mane and Mew2 X as clean/sweepers, with Steela as stall, P Don as the phaser, and AV Xerneas as a check for any Marshadow. I chose having spikes instead of more rocks or even t-spikes on Smergle because of opposing Manes and P-Dons, as well as the occasional MegaGross. No Sunsteel Strike for Ultra Necrozma because I want hard hitting moves, and why would I stay in on Xerneas anyways? EQ and Photon Geyser can handle any mon short of Yvetal. Mew X has Drain Punchfor reliable recovery and Ice Punch to counter Yvetal, 100% Zygarde, Nag after webs, and Arceus Ground.
This team thrives on having both its webs and rocks/spikes up. Having both Ultra Double Dance Mane and Mew2 X as clean/sweepers, with Steela as stall, P Don as the phaser, and AV Xerneas as a check for any Marshadow. I chose having spikes instead of more rocks or even t-spikes on Smergle because of opposing Manes and P-Dons, as well as the occasional MegaGross. No Sunsteel Strike for Ultra Necrozma because I want hard hitting moves, and why would I stay in on Xerneas anyways? EQ and Photon Geyser can handle any mon short of Yvetal. Mew X has Drain Punchfor reliable recovery and Ice Punch to counter Yvetal, 100% Zygarde, Nag after webs, and Arceus Ground.
This has to be some kind of horrible meme, Autonomize Ultra Necro, AV Close Combat Xern, Explosion Steela, Lax Nature P-Don for no damn reason ?
These replays show nothing of value, especially since your facing Mew, Mega Gyarados, Aegislash, Arceus-Fire, Zapdos, and Pheromosa at 1200s in the first one, with your opponent having some questionable plays, like Arceus-Fire setting up a Calm Mind on P-Don, then attempting to Thunderbolt said Ground-type later on in the match.
It just gets worse with replay #2, with Machamp and Dedenne of all things. Atleast the 3rd replay was against a somewhat competent team that just happened to have no Xern counterplay. All in all, it just seems like your cheesing the wins by banking on your opponents being horrible players w/ bad teams.
Sample Teams Submissions Thread, not meme teams thread.
Due to an alarming amount of alts posting in this thread over the course of its existence (one of which I just banned) I'm forced to set some guidelines about who can submit sample teams to stop wasting the council's time. Users that have existed for less than a month and/or lack a sufficient number of posts (10) are now not permitted to submit sample teams for the time being.
This may have some collateral damage against genuinely new users but I believe this is a necessary step towards improving the quality of submissions for our sample teams. I will generally be avoidant of submitted teams from banned users, with few exceptions for cases of genuine staple teams in the current meta.
The council is currently adding new members and we are giving the current samples / submissions (that meet the new requirements) a review.
I agree with PerfectionistSmurf in that a team with Arceus-Dark deserves a spot on the Sample Teams list, seeing that it is the best support Arceus in the metagame alongside Arceus-Ground. However, I disagree that the team he proposed is of Sample Team-quality, for the following reasons:
1. With a balance build such as this one wherein Ho-Oh is the backbone of the defensive structure, the team depends too heavily on the condition that Stealth Rock is kept off, for the rest of the team to not implement further anti-hazard measures. Otherwise, the liability that a crippled Ho-Oh poses is fatal when facing any aggressive team with a reliable Stealth Rocker combined with an offensive threat that Ho-Oh is meant to check.
For example, on this build, Ho-Oh is the only answer to such threats as Mixed Primal-Groudon, HP Ice Marshadow, and Mega Lucario; seeing that the team only has a single Defogger, and a plethora of sitting ducks which allow for set-up opportunities, the build is effectively an auto-loss in these match-ups.
2. Tapu Lele as the select cleric is interesting as it is, unfortunately, suboptimal. The main drawback when comparing it to Blissey or Magearna is that, unlike the latter two, Tapu Lele is unable to prevent CM Refresh Arceus-Flying and -Dark from sweeping the team. Seeing that the rest of the team has no countermeasures to these threats, a proper answer is sorely lacking.
3. 136+ Speed EV’s at minimum are required on Arceus-Dark because without hitting 341 Speed, Arceus-Dark is susceptible to being 2HKO'd by Adamant (non-max Speed) Mega Salamence on the switch-in.
I agree with PerfectionistSmurf in that a team with Arceus-Dark deserves a spot on the Sample Teams list, seeing that it is the best support Arceus in the metagame alongside Arceus-Ground.
I cannot agree with this at all. How can arceus dark be the best support arceus when it cannot do it's role against basically any non-setup threat in the tier (think: marshadow, mega lucario, e killer, metronome yveltal, xern, even the occassional pheromosa)? And allows setup on the strongest threat in the game, primal groudon, without providing the defensive capabilities that arceus water does? It has nothing to make it better than arceus-ground, but plenty of things that make it worse.
I cannot agree with this at all. How can arceus dark be the best support arceus when it cannot do it's role against basically any non-setup threat in the tier (think: marshadow, mega lucario, e killer, metronome yveltal, xern, even the occassional pheromosa)? And allows setup on the strongest threat in the game, primal groudon, without providing the defensive capabilities that arceus water does? It has nothing to make it better than arceus-ground, but plenty of things that make it worse.
Because you are misconstruing its role on the team. It is not meant to offensively check threats, like Primal-Groudon or Mega Lucario, as Arceus-Ground does with its Judgment, but rather to fulfill the defensive needs of a balance build by virtue of its typing.
Ho-Oh balance builds with Arceus-Ground require the following, as a consequence of the opportunity cost presented by forgoing Arceus-Dark:
1. A different member must be tasked as the resident Ultra-Necrozma check, such as Mega Gengar (which checks it by virtue of Shadow Tag) and Mega Sableye.
2. A different member must be tasked as the resident Lunala check, such as an Alolan-Muk or a Ho-Oh with its defense EV's compromised, which necessitates further build-adjustments.
3. A different member must be tasked as the resident Yveltal check, for the same reasons as with Lunala (Arceus-Ground cannot out-Recover Choice Specs Dark Pulse).
Furthermore, Arceus-Dark possesses countless advantages over Arceus-Ground by virtue of its typing in micro-situations which are nevertheless quite relevant in aggregate: it is the only Arceus form untrappable by Gothitelle, the ability to anti-lead Cloyster, the ability to absorb status from Klefki, the ability to check Mega Gengar more concretely (resistance to Hex means that it can switch into Mega Gengar without fear of a 2HKO despite being status'd), and the ability to ease the match-up against Psychic Terrain teams.
I believe that the team that I proposed accentuates these qualities that Arceus-Dark provides for the team, since the team both makes use of the defensive utilities that Arceus-Dark's typing provides, while also calibrating for the weaknesses presented by the lack of Arceus-Ground in a fashion which adequately defines the standards of the metagame.
Ho-Oh balance builds with Arceus-Ground require the following, as a consequence of the opportunity cost presented by forgoing Arceus-Dark:
1. A different member must be tasked as the resident Ultra-Necrozma check, such as Mega Gengar (which checks it by virtue of Shadow Tag) and Mega Sableye.
2. A different member must be tasked as the resident Lunala check, such as an Alolan-Muk or a Ho-Oh with its defense EV's compromised, which necessitates further build-adjustments.
3. A different member must be tasked as the resident Yveltal check, for the same reasons as with Lunala (Arceus-Ground cannot out-Recover Choice Specs Dark Pulse).
Wtf.
1. Somewhat true. Though, arceus dark is not much better at checking necrozma than arceus-ground is. Both 2hit ko opposing necrozma.
2. Hello Hooh?
3. Hello Hooh?
I see very few things arceus dark has over arceus ground. And if so, they are really small. And more importantly than that, niche situations simply don't matter as much as a situation you have to fear in almost every matchup.
Wtf.
1. Somewhat true. Though, arceus dark is not much better at checking necrozma than arceus-ground is. Both 2hit ko opposing necrozma.
2. Hello Hooh?
3. Hello Hooh?
I see very few things arceus dark has over arceus ground. And if so, they are really small. And more importantly than that, niche situations simply don't matter as much as a situation you have to fear in almost every matchup.
Regarding the first point, Arceus-Dark is in fact much better at checking Duskmane compared to Arceus-Ground because you cannot know for certain whether the Duskmane is actually an Ultra-Necrozma. Since Dark-type Judgment threatens to OHKO Ultra-Necrozma if it decides to change forms, unlike Ground-type Judgment, this can be the difference between going for the 2HKO and being OHKO'd instead. by Light That Burns the Sky as Arceus-Ground, or safely 2HKO'ing at worst and winning the 1 on 1 as Arceus-Dark.
Regarding points 2 and 3, Ho-Oh in fact does not check Lunala or Yveltal, without the help of an additional Ghost or Dark-type resist, which is a necessity that is fulfilled automatically by running Arceus-Dark, whereas an additional team-slot is necessary to accomplish this if Arceus-Ground is opted (such as Alolan-Muk in the Dual Trap stall). The extent to which it does is living two hits and getting a Toxic off, but at that point you will be forced to switch out, and the necessity of running a proper Ghost or Dark-type resist recurs; in consequence, again, the opportunity cost of opting to run Arceus-Ground over Arceus-Dark reappears.
+1 252+ SpA Lunala Menacing Moonraze Maelstrom vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ho-Oh: 384-453 (92.3 - 108.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Dark Aura Yveltal Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ho-Oh: 271-321 (65.1 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Regarding points 2 and 3, Ho-Oh in fact does not check Lunala or Yveltal, without the help of an additional Ghost or Dark-type resist, which is a necessity that is fulfilled automatically by running Arceus-Dark, whereas an additional team-slot is necessary to accomplish this if Arceus-Ground is opted (such as Alolan-Muk in the Dual Trap stall).
I don't know in what meta you live in, but lunala and yveltal are very easily checked without the need of a dark type. Physical choice band yveltal is simply terrible (especially Adamant, what the hell?) because knock off won't do crap to any plate arceus, lunala cannot run modest without running into the problem of being outsped and killed in one. Plenty of people use arceus-water and arceus-ground and have no issues there whatsoever. Arceus-Dark doesn't appreciate a +1 focus blast either and also only 2 hit ko's a full hp lunala itself, by the way.
Also, I don't know what you mean with this alolan muk trap thing. Nobody runs that, nobody needs that to check ghosts.
Your entire argumentation is based on "arceus dark is slightly better in a few niche ways". Other arceus formes such as fairy have their niches as well. The big difference, why water and ground are ranked A+, is that the most important task of a support arceus is fulfilled by them, but not by others. I'm not saying it's bad - but calling it the best and on par with ground is ridiculous - if it was, you'd see it commonly used, but the only arceus dark set you actually really encounter is CM.
Gengar @ Gengarite
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Taunt
- Destiny Bond
- Sludge Wave
- Shadow Ball
Yveltal @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Foul Play
- Dark Pulse
- Oblivion Wing
- U-turn
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Solganium Z
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 248 Atk / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Swords Dance
- Sunsteel Strike
- Earthquake
It's nothing complicated or anything new because all the sets that's included in this team is well known by everyone and that's not too hard to use. The team is built with an intention of making it User Friendly, so it can be used by the people who are new to the current Ubers metagame. So without talking too much, lets get into the team.
This team was originally built around SD Stealth Rock Primal Groudon as it stands out as a unique set for a bulky offensive team since it can throw some hazards on the enemy side as well as it can pressure defensive opponents who confront Groudon just to remove or prevent the hazards. Such examples are the defensive Arceus formes and Giratina-O which confronts Groudon but they can be pressured by Swords Dance. This particular Groudon set can easily threaten the opposing Stall teams easily, giving more opportunities for the rest of the team to proceed without any lag. Although, if Groudon fails to pressure the opponents, Xerneas comes in and pressures the opposing team so it can be an advantage for Groudon to have a backup like this. Xerneas is a monster set-up sweeper, truly defining how an offensive team should be. Xerneas can sweep up all the opposing Dark types. So the core as of now is weak to physically powerful Pokemon's, so what comes in our mind is the opposing Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh. And since Xerneas can be put down by Mega Lucario, the team needed a solid check for both Groudon and Lucario while also dealing with Ho-Oh. So Arceus-Ground, with the given EV that's enough to outspeed a full speed Groudon, while the rest EV is invested in the defensive side to tank physical attacks, is good but there's a major change i.e. Stone Edge instead of Ice Beam, to damage the opposing Ho-Oh and to pressure it out of the game. Since the team now can handle Ho-Oh, It can have a spin-blocker as well as a taunt user. Mega Gengar was filled in the slot as it is a perfect Pokemon for the team to pressure the Stall with further power as well as it is a trapper that removes a Pokemon which troubles the team, given that it has good speed to taunt the opponent as well as to use Destiny Bond first. Also, it can throw some damage here and there, as it has good damaging power. Now, the team has filled up with four slots with solid sets and combinations. Now the team is pretty much weak to Fairy and Psychic types, and these two types are very common too. When it comes to Fairy types, Xerneas is the main threat when it comes to Ubers. Necrozma-DM checks Xerneas while providing much support to the team as a Steel type, and with its physical offensive power, it can slay down the opposing team and create a winning path along with the teammates. With our Arceus-Ground running Stone Edge instead of Ice Beam and the rise of Psychic pokemon's in the tier, Yveltal with Scarf is added, achieving speed and becoming a threat to the opposing Psychics and beating Mega Salamence with Foul Play (a secondary check). Yveltal can outspeed Marshadow and beat it with Oblivion Wing.
That's how the whole team has its combinations that covered each other checks. I hope the team works for the people, if they use it right. I personally don't care if the team is added to the thread with changes applied in it. I just wanted to dedicate a team for this thread. I hope this team will be added to the thread.
Rejected - This team has a lot of trouble facing Primal Kyogre, while at the same time the sets are not optimized. The team can also struggle vs Zygarde or Mega Salamence, while the absence of defog on Yveltal, also creates a rough matchup vs webs.
Description: This team is built around CM Lunala, which is a very exceptional wallbreaker that heavily pressures bulkier teams with its great Ghost typing and offensive stats. Stallbreaker Yveltal is a another great team option which allows it to check certain Arceus forms, and opposing Ghost types and Dark types, namely Mega Gengar, Lunala, Yveltal, and Marshadow to an extent. Primal Groudon is there to set rocks to allow lunala to pick up ohkos or 2hkos and it also packs rock tomb for namely Ho-oh. Ferrothorn acts as a check to Primal Kyogre, the majority of support Arceus formes, and Scarf Xerneas. It's also one of the few mons in the tier that carries Spikes, which is again crucial for Lunala to pick ohkos/2hkos. Scarf Xerneas is there to offer a fast Defog to remove entry hazards, and can absorb status and cleric them with Aromatherapy. Last but not least we have Arceus Water to check Primal Groudon, Dusk Mane, Ho-oh, Arceus Ground, Zygarde, Mega Salamence, and Mega Lucario.
Rejected - This is a good attempt, but there are many roles compress on Xerneas. You rely on it for Aroma + defog + checking marshadow + darkceus, which can open up holes in the team. Also with this Primal Groudon set, the team can be really weak against GeoXern, while if you add a sp def Primal Groudon, the Lunala + Yveltal can be reduntant as stall breakers.
Pros: Can effortlessly deal with nearly every team composition, has a great matchup against very common HO and web teams.
Cons: Very, very dual dance pdon weak (stay alert and you're fine), primal kyogre can be an issue. Slightly arceus-water/arceus-ground weak. Does not appreciate stall.
Playstyle: Take educated guesses on your opponents sets and carefully test them, once you got a clear image, you can afford staying in and wearing your opponent down. Ho-Oh is your go-to switch for most arceus formes, nearly every yveltal set, xerneas, necrozma-dm and pdon without stone edge. Main role is to sponge hits repeatedly, cautiously throw around toxics (beware of sub mons, though physical arceus-ground is not an issue) and keep the playing field free of rocks and other hazards. It's a good mon to catch a toxic or thunder wave on and deals fine with nearly every dedicated lead.
Arceus-Fairy is often one of the less required mons, it checks mega salamence and DD zygarde, does otherwise keep your side hazard free and sets up stealth rocks on expected hooh/necrozma switches, buying you a free switch. It can always come in on yveltal and marshadow and get back to full hp.
Groudon should be kept as healthy as possible for the longest time so you don't lose to kyogre. It lives one hit from +2 mega blaziken or a precipice blades from a non-adamant pdon, which depending on your enemies team composition you might want to trade for damage on opposing pdon. It comes in on magearna, ferrothorn, kyogre, tyranitar and some arceus formes and deals heavy damage with overheat, ohko'ing nearly every non defensive pokemon or costing giratina-o 40% of it's health. You don't appreciate being toxic'd on it, but it's not the end of the world. Stone edge may be replaced with hp ice to better deal with zygarde and often kill unsuspecting salamence, but stone edge gets you rid of ho-oh's after you bluffed overheat and weak precipice. 4 speed EV's to outspeed opposing defensive groudon.
Necrozma-DM *must* be kept healthy. Do NOT switch in to xerneas unless you are confident it's scarfed or poses no threat otherwise. Ho-Oh lives one thunder and can toxic opposing xerneas, but you will lose half your team dealing with it. You can bring this out to finish off slow groudons and get heavy damage on yveltal with sunsteel strike. Stay in DM form as long as you can, more often than not you can bluff an unexpected ultra at the end.
Yveltal: Speed control. It's often a fantastic lead because everything it struggles with, you have safe switches into. Outspeeds +1 Zygarde and 1v1's +2 zygarde-complete on 40%. Suprisingly often catches arceus-formes trying to recover up on you. Dark pulse does 40% to arceus ground, often allowing you 3-4 chances to flinch before it's out of range of two hits and you should switch into ho-oh. Deals perfectly well with marshadow, breaks sashes with u-turn (though, try not to give away the scarf unless needed). 2 hit ko's pdon unless it's full spdef, outspeeds after a thunder wave. Great mon to switch into coming from pdon.
Marshadow: Finishes pokes off, 2 hit ko'ing most of the meta with close combat. Hp ice to catch weakened zygarde on <85%. Answer to arceus-dark if need be and obviously e-killer. Don't throw this away, the speed control often comes in handy against xerneas, necrozma, or gengar. Gets rid of yveltal with close combat into sneak after rocks.
Whether this makes it into the list or not, it's the first team I've made when I started with ubers ~4 months ago. I didn't know any of the pokemon (never touched gen 5-7) and built it based on smogon viability rankings. After adjusting sets, it allowed me to peak the ladder and stay there comfortably. Mostly, it's just fun to play with.
Rejected - As you stated, dual dance Primal Groudon is very hard to deal with, as well as Primal Kyogre. Having no pursuit means that Mega Gengar can trap staff and open up holes in your team. On top of that, there can be a weakness to sticky webs.
I made this team to counter punch a super-majority of opposite teams and to just make Offense and Bulky Offense ragequit (believe me, it's happened a lot) and I got to 1814 points with it very recently so I believe it's a good one. The main idea behind this team was to take advantage of the fact that Goth is basically non-existent. With that in mind, I created a team with 6 Mons who I believe counter/check every single Pokemon in the tier.
I started off with the Arceus form and since I was going to make a defensive team, I went for Arc-Fairy to scare Mega-Sableye stall, which otherwise auto-wins in the long run. Next was Ho-oh, which provides a secondary defog (really helpful for Spikes and Toxic Spikes) and checks Dusk Mane and Mega Gengar for Arc-Fairy and a lot of other things in general. Zygarde takes care of the majority of physical attackers and acts as a status absorber. Haze was chosen over Dragon Tail because of the higher PP and accuracy, making it a lot more reliable overall. Along with Glare, it shuts down every setup attacker as long as Zygarde's healthy. Ferrothorn was added to prevent Kyogre from steamrolling through this team. It also act as a general Support Arceus switch-in and provides invaluable Spikes support. Dusk-Mane is next and fills out the mandatory Stealth Rock role, while also serving as a counter to Xerneas. Toxic lets it defeat a lot of defoggers 1v1. And lastly, Yveltal was included to (with this set) counter every single Dusk Mane/ Ultra Necro situation, except for +2 Z-move Dusk. It's EV'd to outspeed Adamant Dusk and Rock Polish Pdon in a pinch. In addition, it checks Z-move-Marshadow and prevents random Sword's Dance Arcei defeating this team.
In general though, Ho-oh. Ferrothorn and Dusk Mane together check the majority of the special metagame and Yveltal, Zygarde and Arc-Fairy check the entire physical metagame.
Rejected - The team is a good try, but it is passive and has inadequate amount of offensive pressure. It really can not break fatter teams, so we will have to reject this.
Those were the submissions that followed the new posting guidelines up until now. In the following days we will be updating the topic by removing outdated teams, and adding new ones so stay tuned!
Rejected - As you stated, dual dance Primal Groudon is very hard to deal with, as well as Primal Kyogre. Having no pursuit means that Mega Gengar can trap staff and open up holes in your team. On top of that, there can be a weakness to sticky webs.
While I absolutely agree with dual dance pdon and primal ogre, saying this team is mega gar (traps literally 1 pokemon) or webs weak is ridiculous. Samples are upon your judgment, but if you're going by team weaknesses to one threat, or webs game, I heavily encourage you to review currently listed samples, because every of them has grave weaknesses in at least one of those regards.
While I absolutely agree with dual dance pdon and primal ogre, saying this team is mega gar (traps literally 1 pokemon) or webs weak is ridiculous. Samples are upon your judgment, but if you're going by team weaknesses to one threat, you have to remove basically every single sample team, some with grave mistakes and irrepairable weaknesses, far bigger and more impossible to deal with than with the one I posted. With that being reason for rejection, you seriously have to drop nearly every currently listed team.
If you read the OP of this thread you would have noticed this part:
It is discouraged to argue a rejection of a team in the thread, please discuss teams in a civil manner in terms of why you think a team should be reviewed again under special circumstances i.e significant improvements to the structure of the team
Appealing to the idea of applying one team's rejection reasoning (and only a part of it, at that) to the entire samples roster is a poor argument and we are internally reviewing the teams anyway, something that has been said multiple times by now. If you or anyone else want to "appeal" a rejection, do so in a more constructive manner and following the thread guidelines to make better arguments. We don't intend to hop into bickering arguments across the thread whenever someone disagrees with the council's decisions.
Appealing to the idea of applying one team's rejection reasoning (and only a part of it, at that) to the entire samples roster is a poor argument and we are internally reviewing the teams anyway, something that has been said multiple times by now. If you or anyone else want to "appeal" a rejection, do so in a more constructive manner and following the thread guidelines to make better arguments. We don't intend to hop into bickering arguments across the thread whenever someone disagrees with the council's decisions.
I am not arguing the rejection, I am saying that with the arguments used, currently listed teams must be reviewed with similar (or other common) weaknesses in mind.
Magearna @ Leftovers
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fleur Cannon
- Volt Switch
- Heal Bell
- Pain Split
Marshadow @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Spectral Thief
- Close Combat
- Shadow Sneak
- Pursuit
I find teams with Ultra Necrozma to be very lacking outside of the sticky webs, especially since it is one of the largest meta definers right now and I find this surprising. This is a simple-to-use Bulky Offense featuring Ultra Necrozma as the winning condition combined with Extreme Killer Arceus which form a threatening offensive pairing together. The team is equipped to deal with most effective archetypes in the Ubers metagame right now, with the all the sufficient methods to enable to counter-play against the major threat list to a good degree.
Ultra Necrozma breaks down most common defensive cores in ubers for the team, with the luxury of being to able to use Outrage, due to the abundance of methods of dealing with Geomancy Xerneas, which is sometimes problematic for Ultra Necrozma teams, which is something that Magearna + Extreme Killer Arceus enable it to do. Outrage allows Necrozma to get past the usual checks such as Arceus-Dark, Sableye-Mega, Zygarde-C w/o using Z-Move, etc. Pursuit Marshadow also helps assist Ultra Necrozma, with its matchup against offense and ability to Pursuit-trap Mega Gengar, and can prove to be very threatening as this can potentially allow Ultra Necrozma to effectively beat stall / bulkier teams by itself or coming close to it, as I feel Mega Gengar is almost mandatory on these kind of builds. Magearna provides the team with the usual support steel, much needed yveltal check and a cleric, heal bell support is prob superior here, as you don't really need heart swap for cm arcs due to the inclusion of Extreme Killer Arceus and Ultra Necrozma. Salamence compliments magearna to help deal with its answer, provide a much needed ho-oh check and being a defog user that can somewhat safely defog sticky web, Extreme Killer also helps make the Sticky web matchup more than plausible.
I found this to be quite a solid balance team for use on ladder.
Dusk Mane Ultra-Necrozma is one of the best Pokemon in the tier with every team having the need to prepare for it. It's unpredictability makes it more so threatening and thanks to the speed boost it gets after an Ultra- Burst it is able to threaten nearly every Pokemon in the tier. Ultra-Necrozma has to be kept healthy until the opponent's Xerneas set is revealed. Given that it is extremely frail to priority, choice scarf users and anything that is faster than itself. However this entire team is revolved entirely around it and is specifically done so to ensure all of it's checks and counters are kept in checked.
Primal Kyogre is often used as an excellent wallbreaker on balance/bulky offence teams with it's sole purpose being an offensive staple of inflicting massive damage. However it's defensive set has often been under utilised or even more so underestimated on balance teams. This team utilises RestTalk Primal Kyogre as a strong status support sponge that is the only viable Specially Defensive Wall that isn't afraid of status. Primal Kyogre is also a good pivot in to an opponent's Primal Kyogre's resisted attack for Primal Groudon to switch in unharmed, much like Arceus-Water. RestTalk Primal Kyogre is also a good Pokemon to fall back onto as a check to Yveltal (as even a Maxed Special Attack Life Orb Dark Pulse only deals 39 dmg max to the great whale) ,as well as other unboosted special attackers(Non-Geomancy Xerneas variants) ,all viable support Arceus formes and a check to non-SD Primal Groudon.
Choice Scarf Xerneas is selected in this team as a form of speed control and arguably as a sort of anti-offence. Xerneas also keeps some of Ultra- Necrozma's more threatening counters like most Yveltal (especially Choice Scarf and Sucker Punch variants) and Marshadow in check, as well as preventing a Mega Gengar's switch in attempt to pick off the team one by one.
Since using Ultra-Necrozma instead of a standard defensive Dusk-Mane Stealth Rock setter has made the team considerably weaker to Geo-Herb Xerneas, Primal Groudon is here to help mend that weakness and fill the void for the team's Stealth Rock Setter. Roar can be substitute instead of Overheat for Geomancy Xerneas (It is a personal preferences) but Overheat overall threatens more Pokemons in the tier. Swords Dance is used for Support Arceus Formes or any other non-ground immune defoggers that even dream to get rid of the rocks that Primal Groudon has set up. Overall, a more specially defensive passive set can be used over this as a more reliable check to Xerneas. Primal Groudon also checks special Wallbreaker Primal Kyogre if the opponent is dumb enough to use it in the early game.
Arceus-Flying is a strong Ground-Immune, Sticky Webs Immune, Toxic Spikes and Spikes Immune, Calm Mind Sweeper. Arceus-Flying plays an important role as a second offensive core in this balance team. This pokemon also reliably counters Ultra-Necrozma's threats such as Marshadow and can use Choice Scarf Xerneas and most variants of Yveltal as set up fodder. Arceus-Flying's strong offensive capabilities and high sweeping potential once it's checks are removed makes it a good partner for Ultra-Necrozma.
Giratina-O is picked as a counter to SD Primal Groudon and an offensive check to mixed Primal Kyogre as well as a reliably defogger and a status inflicter. Giratina-O is also immune to sticky webs and toxic spikes, making it a strong anti-offence defogger. Overall Giratina-O plays a crucial role in checking some threats to the team and to play as a strong (but quickly worn-down) defogger.
