You are completely correct adamant has merits, overall a conclusion was reached that Jolly just brings more merits. How you should play the team, i.e be the one pressing hazards agaisnt the opponent due to the natural weak hazard removals this meta offers outside of ho-oh balances, bulky offenses / HOs etc ferro spikes wants to take advantage of this.
I actually forgot about this, but I made an alternative version of Holy Ghost's team that I would like to submit: https://pokepast.es/315e9c53feef5d1c I also have some replays from a couple of months ago demonstrating it in action.
I've been discussing this team, it looks good on paper. but I think its going to have to be rejected in the current state.
Kyogre is for sure a threat, but we have 2 Water resists besides Groudon, Pex survives 1 Thunder from full to get a Toxic off, and MM2Y can revenge kill it. It is also vulnerable to tspikes, so you can just get them up and play around it (see the last replay I posted for example).
I did some calculations vs Water Spout / Origin Pulse / Ice Beam Kyogre (the analysis set). Giratina-O is 2hko'd, Pex risks being OHKO by thunder after SR. Groudon could be Rock Tomb, sure. Im not confident in the ability of how your opp played the stall mu. with a bulkier Groudon and a item change on pex, I would probably accept this. (the spread I posted), if you're happy with that Im happy to do it. but honestly the stall mu of this team relies on you being much better than the opponent, its hard, but doable.
Sure, that sounds great. Here is the final paste for you then: https://pokepast.es/2ef0b96944b00e25 I put Stone Edge instead of Rock Tomb since there's no speed on Groudon. I think you should at least mention Shuca in the description as an alternative for the CM Groundceus matchup.
when you say hooh counterplay, do you just mean the defensive set? cos this team does not want to switch into an offensive brave bird at all
you need to provide a write-up while submitting, not if it gets accepted o.o
There is a Salamence + HP invested Pdon with Stone Edge + HP invested Kyogre, the team has plenty of methods for dealing with Ho-Oh in my opinion.
and all of them take more than half on switch in, and hooh comes in freely on groundceus lunala magearna(even if you can volt switch)
i really don't know how you switch into a lo marsh at all
I dont really see what Scarf Lunala merits over a scarf Yveltal and the main reason players pick lunala is for its wallbreaking capabilities against stall or defensive defog on teams like stall. Scarf Yveltal would allow for more team freedom. Defensive Kyogre is really a momentum sink for this team / is redundant with the lunala team option at face value, defensively lunala could be worth exploring with removing kyogre and doesnt really warrant much over fast CM, phys def kyogre doesnt really have much of a role in the current meta either.
As much as I like this team, it doesnt fit the requirements of a reliable yveltal (mainly Life Orb) counterplay a sample team would need. (Lack of yveltal resist or switch in that isnt 2hkod after SR) or overwhelming offensive options to overcome this
I get the issues with the higher skill ceiling of the team, frankly is tough for a newcomer to play it but still just released it. Regardless, pex is a problem yes, for that I tweaked the xern set a bit actually, made it thunder defog. As for the specs or LO ygod mu, it’s not even a remote threat as every mon out there atleast toxes the ygod or can effectively trade. Waterceus can take two oblivion wings and return with toxic, sacking MMY to ygod with ice beam if the ygod is at full is a good trade from our scenario. On paper, what even stops specs ygod apart from mag in general? It’s about the level of outplaying and also lunala is prolly the easiest threat to eliminate. The pdon can also tox or SR depending on the scenario while an aggressive switch on oblivion wing to the DM will ensure a very good position for us as we can set rocks up and then have the option of ultraing and hitting the next switch in. As for the webs mu, what in the world is smeargle setting webs again is the first argument. Second argument it is fairly easy for us to SR due to two SR users with supposed defensive and offensive utility both combined. The Waterceus plus defensive pdon plus sneak marsh should be able to handle the likes of ultra necro with rather ease. There are two types of necro on webs, either it’s SR Special necro which isn’t even remotely a problem for the team looking that we have a DM of our own which can force early ultra mind games along with a xern and MMY for special absorb. The other necro is offensive SD set which can be tough to maneuver against granted but the whole premise of the team is no one is letting the webs up if being used by a good player. A good team cannot cover all mus unfortunately USM is too vast for that. The pdon on other circumstances can come across as a great pain to the opposing team. BU z move Marshadow isn’t even remotely a threat where you have a fat as hell waterceus which isn’t nearly 2hkoed by LO CC. Lunala is prolly the easiest thing to beat because of the pursuit trap and four mons that outspeed it. Somehow your only legitimate threat to this team is pex which I am countering with thunder defog and am gonna release the updated squad. Regardless of the fact tho, the current so called “easy to use” sample teams are going to give them no room to learn or improve as they are going to be potentially losing 90 percent of their games. The teams are low in quality with holes that are very prominent. My team might be a bit on the advanced side of things granted but atleast the team is a legitimate one and can actually put in work.
This team still does not satisfy the main rejection reason as stated here:
Nor does it solve the other issues of the team that were pointed out such as the lack of reliable Ground move switchins. I don't hard agree on the lunala issues, something that was brought up briefly and not really a glaring weakness of the team at all.
If you have any issues with how sample teams are handled, you are more than welcome to send your concerns to a forum moderator such as Nayrz or Dream, the overall decision reached of the team is standing, unless the future submitted teams satisfy the conditions that are required to be a sample team.
Never expected it to be in the samples imo but def am gonna see it being used in circuit playoffs so mission kinda accomplished. Imma see you on ladder playing with this shit on an alt tho. :)
I added RestTalk Kyogre mainly because of the issues with waterceus, but I suppose having Mega Gengar with Thunder would alleviate that issue. I made the changes to the team you suggested and here's the new paste: https://pokepast.es/0eb72c12e5385264 I tested it for a bit and it seems pretty good, so you can add it in this form if you're OK with it (if you do, give full credit to Nayrz for the team).
While it is good and all. The original team belongs to Nayrz which is something I pointed out in my previous post, I was honestly just trying to give you feedback on the previous submission (I feel like my post may have caused a misunderstanding here, apologies). If we do decide to add this internally, it will have to be credited to Nayrz and needs permission from the original builder since its literally a carbon copy of their team.
Yup I understand you were just trying to give general feedback and didn't necessarily mean to implement all of the changes you suggested. But if you take my original team and just try to replace scarf Yveltal > Lunala, then this exact team composition kind of falls into place anyway; it's natural for Kyogre to be offensive because makes it less of a momentum drain like you mentioned, and Mega Gengar is kind of the perfect fit for the last slot to deal with Waterceus/Ferrothorn. So regardless of what you said, I think I might have wound up with something very similar in trying to address the Marshadow weakness, because this build is very close to optimal imo.
