Metagame USUM Memetagame Discussion was a mistake

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Thunder Pwoell I’m asking you rn, why is LandoT B+
Lando is very versatile and very good but honestly not that amazing once you know the set, easily exploitable. It acts as glue on peoples teams it's just far too popular and makes it's own weakness. so I felt that it didnt deserve the same treatment as the tapus



Sickist currently kart isnt great unlesss you dont run into 3 fairies on a squad
 
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Lando is very versatile and very good but honestly not that amazing once you know the set, easily exploitable. It acts as glue on peoples teams it's just far too popular and makes it's own weakness. so I felt that it didnt deserve the same treatment as the tapus



Sickist currently kart isnt great unlesss you dont run into 3 fairies on a squad
Man could you stop? Lando-t is one of the best pokemon in competetive OU and always has been. Of course people are going to prep for it, but it's still great. Also, scarf kart wrecks the shit out of anything, regardless of wether it's actually weak to it.
 
Man could you stop? Lando-t is one of the best pokemon in competetive OU and always has been. Of course people are going to prep for it, but it's still great. Also, scarf kart wrecks the shit out of anything, regardless of wether it's actually weak to it.
I honestly don't know how to respond to this mainly due to the straight out falsities and even admittance of prep for lando on literally every team but let's just agree to not respond to each other ;)


Well, thats highly controversial, and Id like to hear your thoughts about Roserade, Celebi and what poke are a good partner for Mega Latias (Cm+SP)
Both are good scarfers imo, roserade has some amazing tech, really good special bulky and good spa. Plus being a poison/grass is great right now. If you want to see celebi in action I actually have a lot of replays. Partners for mega latias would be stuff that can get rid of the steels and dark/ghost/fairy types so you can prep for a win.
 
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Id love to see those replays or get the teams you used with them.
And if you have the Time, Id like to hear your thoughts on Mega garde, espeon, manaphy and shaymin. :)
 
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The irony of you saying everyone is prepared for Lando-T and that’s why it’s not that good is that 90% of the random shit on your list is only “viable” because no one uses it and therefore people don’t know what to expect when you switch in. For instance, I’d guess you can only fire off free CMs on Comfey consistently because people assume that it’s a cleric set. I’d be interested to see how dramatically your list would change if a lot of things on it actually started gaining usage and people started knowing how to check them. This happens fairly often with lower tier Pokémon that someone spotlights in a tournament - it will pick up momentum because people think it’s cool but it’s really only useful for the element of surprise or for a niche on in that particular team/against that opponent. After a few months people realize it’s not actually that great once their opponents know what to expect when it comes in, so it drops back down.
 
THE DEFINITIVE OMARI P VR OU USM SPECIAL

Hey! So a lot of people have been asking for a while now: "if I ran the VR what would it look like?" and with the blessing of our lord and saviour (other than i) sir Finchinator himself, here are my rankings for the current meta! If you have questions please let me know, I changed like a shit ton of things and if you want explanations Ill be up. I also added some mons and even made a D tier (mainly for current mons). and make sure to take your time viewing. Let me know your thoughts!

Rank:

S Rank: (definitely needs a suspect)
Greninja-Ash
Magearna

Greninja

A Rank:

A+ Rank


Mawile (Mega)
Tapu Koko
Tapu Lele
Tapu Bulu
Toxapex

A Rank

Garchomp

Latias (Mega)

Heatran


A- Rank
Celesteela
Alakazam (Mega)
Hawlucha
Chansey

Ferrothorn

B Rank:

B+ Rank

Tornadus-T
Volcarona
Charizard (Mega X)
Charizard (Mega Y)
Landorus-T* (ask me )

Tyranitar


Hoopa-U
Medicham (Mega)
Latios (Mega)

Victini

Pinsir (Mega)
Mew

Thundurus-T
Mandibuzz
Swampert (Mega)
Tapu Fini
Magnezone

B Rank
Alomomola
Kyurem-B
Comfey

Snorlax
Scizor (Mega)
Heracross (Mega)
Pelipper
Torkoal
Gengar

Kingdra
Mamoswine
Hoopa

Weavile
Celebi
Venusaur (in sun)

Porygon-Z
Venusaur (Mega)
Nidoking

B- Rank
Espeon
Porygon2
Tyranitar (Mega)
Scolipede
Gyarados (Mega)
Zapdos
Haxorus

Nidoqueen

Lopunny (Mega)
Roserade
Blissey
Latios
Excadrill
Zeraora

Jirachi
Keldeo
Manaphy
Shaymin

Staraptor

Dragonite
Diancie (Mega)
Meloetta

Serperior
C Rank:

C+ Rank

Kartana
Minior
Rotom-W
Vaporeon
Pidgeot-Mega
Reuniclus
Emboar

Araquanid
Empoleon

Suicune

Bisharp
Empoleon

Latias
Aerodactyl (Mega)

Terrakion
Thundurus
Volcanion
Avalugg
Tangrowth
Necrozma
mega gardevoir

C Rank


Alakazam
1547060584387.png
Metagross
Hydreigon
Slowbro
Slowbro (Mega)

Hippowdon
Azumarill
Goodra
Buzzwole
Crawdaunt
Ditto
Gallade (Mega)
Kyurem
Manectric (Mega)
Sableye (Mega)

Clefable

Muk-Alola

Ninetales-Alola

Gliscor
Skarmory
Miltank

Gyarados

C- Rank
Mantine

Poliwrath
Raichu-Alola
Galvantula
Cresselia
Blacephalon
Shiftry

Garchomp (Mega)
Golem-Alola
Aggron (Mega)
Kommo-o
Marowak-Alola

Shuckle
Mimikyu
Klinklang


D Rank
Uxie
Moltres

Camerupt (Mega)

Qwilfish
Gastrodon
Pyukumuku
Quagsire
Druddigon

Ribombee

Wishiwashi
some pretty cool stuff here. i agree with most of the upper ranks except maybe i'd keep heatran in S rank. i think chomp's a little overrated in general tbh, but i get where you're coming from with it in A rank. prot gren could maybe be A+. i think tornadus-t and landorus-t are definitely too low. landorus-t should be at least A rank imo, and tornadus-t should probably stay in A+. mega latios should be lower honestly; it's pretty bad. celesteela could maybe go up it's really good. surprised to see mega lopunny and mega sableye so low tbh. think you could probably put kartana and clefable lower.

i think it'd make sense to keep all the weather stuff in 1 rank with one another... so maybe all the sun stuff in B (personally i'd go lower like C+), and rain stuff in B+ maybe. you might want to consider putting politoed in here since it gets hypnosis, giving it a niche over the bird.

now for the heat... i think necrozma should be higher, really great pokemon on hyper offenses even though they've been falling out of favor compared to when screens was at its peak. meloetta should probably be lower since the z celebrate set is outclassed by jirachi imo. i think alolan golem can be C rank... trapping heatran is really cool, though it makes sense that you'd put it lower since you have heatran lower than i think it should be personally. ribombee and clanger could also probably rise. wishiwashi could rise too. btw... where's crabominable????? rly think it should be at least B rank.

i can't really comment on klinklang, alolan raichu, or comfey since i haven't used them in OU, but i've used all 3 in NU and they're really cool there.
 

Estronic

give me a corpse
is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
Reading discussion where Pwoell is involved is always a good way to relieve stress lmao:psysly:. We should have a thread exclusively to shitpost of this kind.
On a side note, I'm legitimately surprised by Specs Koko's resurgance. Are utility sets (Dual Screens, Defog) still viable?
Just to quickly detract from the current discussion, dual screens will probably lower in usage a lot because Zygarde was almost a staple for screen-based teams. Defog I'm not entirely sure, though I feel that there are a lot more Pokemon that use Defog better than Tapu Koko.
 

MikeDawg

Banned deucer.
what poke are a good partner for Mega Latias (Cm+SP)
Assuming sub cm, screens are the obvious choice, as they let you tank and set up on basically everything not named unaware clefable (though you outdamage easily if you get a cm or 2 before it comes in). The only things you have to really worry about are non-protean greninja, ttar (though you outstall last-mon band ttar and specs greninja), and then the other more niche dark types running around occasionally. Haze toxapex can be a bit problematic if you can't set up in time, but you can play around it unlike straight immunities. Your best choice to handle them is a solid lure (like hp fighting blacephalon). Toxic spikes support from something like gren is another sure-fire way as long as you can keep them up (which may involve luring toxapex and co). Or just forget about dark types/toxapex and just use one of your other slots to handle them.

tbh, sub cm sp mega lati is super underrated as a win condition, and it can singlehandedly win games more often than not. its ability to set up on and quickly overpower things like magearna and heatran is crazy especially now that zygarde is gone.
 

MikeDawg

Banned deucer.
B Rank

Comfey
Thank you for speaking the truth. Comfey is a monster. Get rid of steel types, and most teams really aren't prepared to face strong priority fairy moves that heal comfey to full every time. Having taunt access on top of being faster than p much every defensive mon is dumb and lets it win a bunch of dumb matchups (they cant set up, haze, taunt, status, etc.) on top of being a general annoyance for defensive mons trying to do things. Priority synthesis is great for times when you aren't set up enough for draining kiss to heal, but i like leech seed too because it lets you face off against bulky fairy resists (like subseed serp) w/ leech seed + taunt. or you can be petty and run giga drain to destroy rain teams. Fairy plate is nice for the well-needed damage boost, but leftovers is a great choice too especially if running seed > synthesis. I like electric/grass seed too for the +1 def boost to help beat/set up on a few particular mons.

I like to pair with hp fire serp to lure celesteela, scizor, mag, ferro, etc. Alola golem is great since it can trap heatran on top of the usual offenders. Magnezone is a classic of course. Hp fire lando is cute if you are running golem instead of mag so you can beat kartana and scizor.

or go extra meta and run comfey as a super adorable lure. specs with hp ground/taunt/seed/hp fire/heal bell/defog/giga drain, trick, u-turn, draining kiss. trick toxapex/chansey, u turn into golem/mag on steel switchins, use hp ground/fire on wahtever if you want, etc. Then you are free to sweep with serperior, scizor, magearna, whatever.

im curious why you think it's b rank instead of low C's, but i support <3
 
The irony of you saying everyone is prepared for Lando-T and that’s why it’s not that good is that 90% of the random shit on your list is only “viable” because no one uses it and therefore people don’t know what to expect when you switch in. For instance, I’d guess you can only fire off free CMs on Comfey consistently because people assume that it’s a cleric set. I’d be interested to see how dramatically your list would change if a lot of things on it actually started gaining usage and people started knowing how to check them. This happens fairly often with lower tier Pokémon that someone spotlights in a tournament - it will pick up momentum because people think it’s cool but it’s really only useful for the element of surprise or for a niche on in that particular team/against that opponent. After a few months people realize it’s not actually that great once their opponents know what to expect when it comes in, so it drops back down.
The phrase you are looking for is called equilibrium and happens to legit every single mon in this game and tier. there are some things that are objectively or strictly dominant but overall it's pretty give and take and up and down



What the hell are Thundurus-T and Mandibuzz doing in the same rank as Landorus-T?! Comfey being higher than Kartana is also not good.
You said nothing here but anyway, as someone whos used both, comfey is far better than kartana is most cases and requires less support ironically despite being less used.



This also goes to everyone, keep in mind there are 100+ mons on that list and if you can only nitpick, think... look at it holistically rather than pigeonholing
 
mega ttar seems to be picking up a bit and doing well in SPL. Perhaps it's found a better home in the meta now with zapdos more popular and torn as common as ever.
 
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THE DEFINITIVE OMARI P VR OU USM SPECIAL
I really, really like this.
In fact, as far as using the VR as a threat compendium goes ("make sure to not lose to S/A ranks and prepare for as much as possible of lower ranks), I believe this to be superior to the official VR due to the different focus on each pokemon's virtues.

I do have a few questions, though.
-why is Meloetta in B-? The Z-celebrate set is surely threatening and the other sets have solid uses too, but I don't quite see it being on-par with other B- ranks like manaphy or shaymin.

-Alolan Muk seems quite low, especially compared to the above

-Nidoqueen in B- seems awkward, unless there's some more defensive nido set I haven't heard of yet.

-there are two Empoleons in C+

-regular Gyarados in C just seems wrong, considering how many teams dd 3atks gyara shreds at +1

-i like how almost anything commonly seen on stall bar chansey is C or lower (and i don't see shedinja at all)

-what does miltank actually do?
 
I really, really like this.
In fact, as far as using the VR as a threat compendium goes ("make sure to not lose to S/A ranks and prepare for as much as possible of lower ranks), I believe this to be superior to the official VR due to the different focus on each pokemon's virtues.

I do have a few questions, though.
-why is Meloetta in B-? The Z-celebrate set is surely threatening and the other sets have solid uses too, but I don't quite see it being on-par with other B- ranks like manaphy or shaymin.

-Alolan Muk seems quite low, especially compared to the above

-Nidoqueen in B- seems awkward, unless there's some more defensive nido set I haven't heard of yet.

-there are two Empoleons in C+

-regular Gyarados in C just seems wrong, considering how many teams dd 3atks gyara shreds at +1

-i like how almost anything commonly seen on stall bar chansey is C or lower (and i don't see shedinja at all)

-what does miltank actually do?
-
-"why is Meloetta in B-? The Z-celebrate set is surely threatening and the other sets have solid uses too, but I don't quite see it being on-par with other B- ranks like manaphy or shaymin."

i would not recommend the z celebrate set. Storm zone and i actually cooked up some really successful sets, my favourite being cm, thunderbolt, psychock and fb/sub with electrium z. You also could run mixed with relish song. there are many different sets oml that thing is so fucking dangerous.

"
-Nidoqueen in B- seems awkward, unless there's some more defensive nido set I haven't heard of yet."
- there is but also it's similar to nido!

"-there are two Empoleons in C+"
- my b
"-regular Gyarados in C just seems wrong, considering how many teams dd 3atks gyara shreds at +1"
- it's really easy to revenge kill, isnt that strong and just is underwhelming imo. so that's why
-"-what does miltank actually do?"

So this is something i just forgot to nom, I actually made this amazing milktank set with curse, facade, milk drink, + hammer arm/eq and straight up countered the serps (pex too tbh) with sap sipper. it swept a lot of games even in high ladder and wsa just vastly not prepped for bc this meta is so skewed and broken


- idk how i feel about the muk tho
 
-
-"why is Meloetta in B-? The Z-celebrate set is surely threatening and the other sets have solid uses too, but I don't quite see it being on-par with other B- ranks like manaphy or shaymin."

i would not recommend the z celebrate set. Storm zone and i actually cooked up some really successful sets, my favourite being cm, thunderbolt, psychock and fb/sub with electrium z. You also could run mixed with relish song. there are many different sets oml that thing is so fucking dangerous.

"
-Nidoqueen in B- seems awkward, unless there's some more defensive nido set I haven't heard of yet."
- there is but also it's similar to nido!

"-there are two Empoleons in C+"
- my b
"-regular Gyarados in C just seems wrong, considering how many teams dd 3atks gyara shreds at +1"
- it's really easy to revenge kill, isnt that strong and just is underwhelming imo. so that's why
-"-what does miltank actually do?"

So this is something i just forgot to nom, I actually made this amazing milktank set with curse, facade, milk drink, + hammer arm/eq and straight up countered the serps (pex too tbh) with sap sipper. it swept a lot of games even in high ladder and wsa just vastly not prepped for bc this meta is so skewed and broken


- idk how i feel about the muk tho
Didn't know about the good melo sets, that makes sense though
Though tbh mixed with relic song seems like really bad 3 moves scrappyless Mlop unless you want to go the jirachi way and spam headbutt

-since I haven't actually heard of those bulky nido sets, i'm not sure whether i agree or not but considering the even worse things i've run before to deal with koko reliably, i shouldn't be surprised

-I guess my incredibly successful gyarados experience was less a sign of "unstoppable snake" and more a case of "lol everyone here running edgeless lando" then, but I see how it's not too dangerous in a vacuum

-Nice! I originally thought miltank is just bad snorlax but I can agree with that set sounding dangerous.
Also it's good to see Snorlax get the B rank it deserves


Realized some more questions,
why is Gliscor in C? The taunt set is fairly dangerous imo

and is there any chance for doublade to get anywhere on this VR

Edit: i derp'd and hit reply early
 
-
-"why is Meloetta in B-? The Z-celebrate set is surely threatening and the other sets have solid uses too, but I don't quite see it being on-par with other B- ranks like manaphy or shaymin."

i would not recommend the z celebrate set. Storm zone and i actually cooked up some really successful sets, my favourite being cm, thunderbolt, psychock and fb/sub with electrium z. You also could run mixed with relish song. there are many different sets oml that thing is so fucking dangerous.

"
-Nidoqueen in B- seems awkward, unless there's some more defensive nido set I haven't heard of yet."
- there is but also it's similar to nido!

"-there are two Empoleons in C+"
- my b
"-regular Gyarados in C just seems wrong, considering how many teams dd 3atks gyara shreds at +1"
- it's really easy to revenge kill, isnt that strong and just is underwhelming imo. so that's why
-"-what does miltank actually do?"

So this is something i just forgot to nom, I actually made this amazing milktank set with curse, facade, milk drink, + hammer arm/eq and straight up countered the serps (pex too tbh) with sap sipper. it swept a lot of games even in high ladder and wsa just vastly not prepped for bc this meta is so skewed and broken


- idk how i feel about the muk tho
Can you give me a Comfey spread?
 
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