USUM NU Viability Rankings - v2

153031

art by AmirAlexander
Welcome to the second official ULTRA Sun & Moon NU Viability Rankings thread. This thread will be updated regularly by myself, Hootie, Finchinator, and rozes to rank all competitively viable and consistently usable pokémon in the Neverused Tier. You're encouraged to civilly post your thoughts and opinions on the various Pokemon that are usable in NU and what rank they should fall under. The general idea of the topic is to rank each NU Pokemon under "rankings" that go in descending order; from S to C. Unlike previous NU Rankings, we've made the decision to be much more strict with our standards of what gets ranked in order to give the most accurate representation of the meta as possible. We have also removed the C- rank from the VR. Furthermore, Pokemon are now ordered by viability within their subranks. Discussion regarding these subrank orderings are encouraged (though you should not make posts solely based on re-ordering these), but keep in mind that at the end of the day the Viability Rankings are a subjective resource, and everyone will have differing opinions which must be respected.

To make ranking these Pokemon easier we have come up with a list of positive and negative attributes each Pokemon should meet to fit a certain rank. Positives: Threat level, Splashability, Consistent, Effect on the metagame, Reliability. Negatives: Passive, Outclassed, Consistency, Usefulness in the current metagame, Weak to Hazards, Speed, General Bulk, Matchup. However, something to remember while ranking is that filling criteria is not a black and white process. Pokemon A might have a stronger effect on the metagame compared to Pokemon B, but Pokemon B might still influence teambuilding a lot. Take into account the varying degrees of these criteria as you reflect on a nomination.

Current VR Team:
Eternally
Hootie
Finchinator
rozes

If you are curious about what sets some of these mons use, or what they do in the tier, check out the analyses we have on site!

S Rank:
Pokemon in this rank fill all of the main criteria and then some with a strong proficiency in one or more of the positive traits. If a Pokemon in this rank has any downsides, they are usually tame or eclipsed by their obvious assets.

S
Incineroar​
Passimian​
Heliolisk​
Slowking​

A Rank:
Pokemon in this rank may fill the majority or all of the positive criteria. These Pokemon may have one major or a handful of minor negative characteristics that could set them back.
A+
Aerodactyl​
Weezing​
Garbodor​
Steelix​
Rhydon​
A
Blastoise
Dhelmise​
Xatu​
Rotom​
Comfey​
Druddigon​
Sigilyph​
Pangoro​
Vaporeon​

A-
Seismitoad​
Delphox​
Whimsicott​
Togedemaru​
Magmortar​
Vikavolt​
Sceptile​
B Rank:
Pokemon in this rank do an alright job fulfilling criteria, albeit not as convincingly. These Pokemon will have some issues you should be accounting for while building your team.

B+
Scrafty​
Braviary​
Vivillon​
Sneasel​
Golbat​
Guzzlord​
Glalie-Mega​

B
Abomasnow-Mega​
Exeggutor-Alola​
Samurott​
Palossand​
Decidueye​

B-
Accelgor​
Medicham​
Absol​
Gallade​
Ferroseed​
C Rank:
Pokemon in this rank do a mediocre job at filling criteria. The sizable amount of negative characteristics associated with these Pokemon are something to weigh against their positives before you fit one on a team.

C+
Aurorus​
Malamar​
Clawitzer​
Mismagius​
Silvally-Steel​
Piloswine​
C
Charizard​
Hariyama​
Victreebel​
Audino-Mega​
1572456571438.png
Clefairy​
1572456598543.png
Silvally-Poison​
Torterra​
Pyukumuku​
D Rank:
Pokemon in this rank are those that are NU by usage, but are otherwise unviable. Do not discuss the placement of Pokemon here nor nominate Pokemon to move up/down to this rank.
Ambipom​
Hitmontop​
Klinklang​
Mesprit​
Minior​
Miltank​
Typhlosion​
 
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Finchinator

You’re so golden
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Initial thoughts/nominations:

could move up to B.

While it still is underwhelming relative to where the initial hype wave put it in theory, Aerodactyl has a pretty developed place in the metagame now. The Choice Band set is annoying to switch-in to for a lot of teams and the Z set can even pick up a kill in a lot of scenarios. This in conjunction with a nearly unmatched speed tier (fuck you, Accelgor) and access to Pursuit, which has limited distribution in the current metagame, makes Aerodactyl a very viable option for a number of teams currently.

could move down to B.

The snowman is unfortunately very underwhelming in my experience. It is very hard to use on teams, let alone get to function consistently. It will see more usage than it deserves on the merit of it being a flashy pick that often forces people's hands defensively, but the burden it places upon teambuilding causes a certain degree of inherent inconsistency that strikes me as incredibly unappealing.

could move down to A-.

On the fence more about this one than the two above, but honestly Seismitoad just is not as good as it was during its initial NU stint and it really shows. The Toxic Refresh bullshit can be annoying, it has a solid defensive presence, and it can up sorta ok, but a lot of things take advantage of it currently. A big one is Alolan Exeggutor, but even the aforementioned Mega Abomasnow tears it a new one. And don't even get me started on how weak Scald is against things like Xatu when you just want to fucking set up Stealth Rock before the world comes to an end. All things considered, I am just not too high on Seismitoad in general atm, but perhaps there is a bit more for me to individually explore on this front.

Love this VR reboot overall!
 

Rabia

GOAT MAN GOAT MAN
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yes i will start this out with many nominations

rises:
1545192840703.png
-> A- (bottom)
This is one of the changes that I honestly don't understand. Rotom has been arguably the most consistent form of hazard removal (read: best thing other than Xatu at preventing hazards) for quite some time now, and dropping it from A(?) makes pretty little sense to me tbh. Nothing in the metagame has really changed at all for it, and I'd argue that Sneasel's slow decline, which has allowed Rotom to run Iapapa Berry, has benefited it greatly. Sure, the rise in Vileplume has hurt it in the 1v1, but you Volt Switch on that, and Vileplume is not preventing a Defog.

1545192979367.png
-> A- (somewhere idrk where lol)
WishTect Delphox has seen quite a surge in usage recently, and I think what it does is being underrated. Having one Pokemon capable of checking as many wallbreakers as it does is fantastic. It's also really great for balanced teams that choose to run with Seismitoad as their fat Water-type of choice, seeing as how you aren't pairing Toad with Vaporeon, and Delphox provides them with sustain via Wish. It also stops the broken Comfey, so bop.

drops:
1545193596642.png
-> B or B- (somewhere)
I'm gonna just echo sentiments I had from the previous VR: I think Mega Christmas is really bad and fits on like one team archetype (vapo balance). It faces immense competition from Vani, Alolan Neck, and Sceptile as an Ice- or Grass-type wallbreaker, and it struggles to come in versus much of anything (things like Rotom and Heliolisk that you would think it would come in on just pivot on you with Volt Switch lmao) due to its really terrible defensive typing (which also shits on it due to hazards). Overall underwhelming and faces waaaay too many drawbacks to be considered much of a real pick.

1545193398957.png
-> C+ (below Samurott)
This is an entry hazard setter that loses to Xatu, and it's a Steel-type that loses to Comfey. I frankly have never seen the appeal to Ferroseed other than it checking Heliolisk (which is clicking Volt most of the time anyhow) and being decent against some hazard removal, but it's a huge momentum drain and passive as hell.

1545193297782.png
-> UR

ngl I think this guy is terrible and fits on very, very select builds. Trapping Steelix for Comfey is really nice, although that's about all it does in the current metagame. Steelvally can just pivot out with Parting Shot or U-turn, and Ferroseed is not exactly a Pokemon lol. I could see it just dropping to lower C, but it's honestly not great, and its niche is even more worthless with the huge drop off Torterra has undergone.
 

Punchshroom

FISHIOUS REND MEGA SHARPEDO
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A to A-/B+
A- to A

I'm of the opinion that these two should be reversed in rank, mainly because Alolan Eggy just feels a lot safer to use than Dhelmise.

Dhelmise has to worry about things like Scald burn or just survivability in general when it switches in, and once Dhelmise does get in, it still has the need to predict since its two most spammable attacks are easily absorbed by the most common Pokemon in the tier aka ejaculation salt Incineroar, which to an extent makes its coverage attacks pretty telegraphed for the most part. Meanwhile, its weakness to Fire, Ghost, and Dark are also really annoying to work around given how prevelant they are, making Dhelmise really easy to force out and/or revenge kill, so it doesn't even get a whole lot of attacking opportunities on top of all that. In terms of utility, Dhelmise is a passable check against Ground-types, but it's a poor excuse of a Passimian check, risky Water response, and its spinning capability is mediocre at best given how vulnerable its typing is, making it difficult for it to outlast the setters.

With Alolan Eggy, it's not concerned with Scald burns, gets more numerous switch-in opportunities (including Dhelmise itself), and even has improved longevity with Giga Drains to heal off residual damage (primarily Toxic). As for the attacking side, it's as brainless as you can get with very few mons in the tier able to comfortably switch into its stupid powerful STABs alone. Even with the power-dropping drawback that its nuking STABs have, it still doesn't get forced out quite as often since it's vulnerable to less threats in the meta, and thus tends to find itself in situations where the opponent simply doesn't have a way to reliably OHKO Alolan Eggy back. Alolan Eggy also performs well as a bulky Water & Ground check, since it shrugs off pretty much everything they have bar Ice coverage (it's by far the biggest reason why AV Slowbros consider Ice Beam). I've preached about Alolan Eggy's qualities before, and none of that has changed; if anything I simply think Alolan Eggy is placed a bit low right now.
 

Pinboim3

Rain days are the worst
Diancie: A+ > A
Vanilluxe: A+ > A
Braviary: A > B+
Guzzlord: A > B
Rotom: A > B+
Slowking: A- > B-
Torterra: A- > B
Medicham: A- > B-
Whimsicott: A- > B+
Vivillion: A- > B
Accelgor: B+ > B
Klinklang: B+ > B-
Ferroseed, Aerodactyl, Scrafty, Absol: B > B-
Hariyama: B > C+
Samurott: B > C+
Gallade: B > C
Houndoom: B > C
Miltank: B > D
Omastar: B > UR
Aromatisse: B- > UR
Cinccino: B- > D
Cryogonal: B- > C
Haunter: B- > UR
Kabutops: B- > UR
Mismagius: B- > C+
Probopass: B- > C
Sandslash-Alola: B- > C+
Type:Null: B- > UR
Clawlitzer: C+ > D
Dodrio, Malamar, Togedemaru: C+ > C
Frosslass, Scyther, Zangoose: C+ > UR
Ditto, Hitmonlee, Mesphrit, Altaria, Clefairy, Lycanroc: C- > UR
Kingler: C- > D
Vaporeon, Seismitoad, Comfey: A- > A+
Magmortar, Druddigon, Exeggutor-Alola: B+ > A-
Blastoise: B > B+
Silvally-Steel: B- > B
Golbat: B- > B
Quagsire: C > B-
Weezing: C > B
Articuno: C- > C
Charizard: C- > C

Added
Masquerain: UR > C+
Abomasnow-Mega: UR > B+

This are all the Pokemon that changed from the Old VR to the New one, I hope I didn't forget anything or put something in the wrong place.
 
As a player who have started playing NU more in the last few days, I have some questions about certain mons.

Why Cinccino, Clawitzer and Miltank are D rank now and how did they become unviable?
Why is Masquerain (an untiered Bug/Flying with no niche other than webs) ranked?
 

Punchshroom

FISHIOUS REND MEGA SHARPEDO
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As a player who have started playing NU more in the last few days, I have some questions about certain mons.

Why Cinccino, Clawitzer and Miltank are D rank now and how did they become unviable?
Why is Masquerain (an untiered Bug/Flying with no niche other than webs) ranked?
I'll answer these to the best of my capacity.

Cinccino's Grass and Rock coverage is pretty nice for breaking certain cores, up until a Steel-type shows up and walls it to kingdom come and stop it from getting much done. It also switches in on literally nothing, so it can't put its corebreaking abilities to good use. It doesn't even kill quite enough fast threats to showcase its high Speed, plus being a contact multi-hitter means that Rocky Helmet/Effect Spore/Rough Skin can ruin it on the spot. I'd probably sooner use a Toucannon to start breaking walls since at least that can take advantage of its Ground immunity and isn't walled by Steels.

Clawitzer also has scary coverage, but its lack of resistances does it no favors to make up for its lack of Speed when compared to the other slow wallbreakers (even Dhelmise has more utility). Being an offensive Water-type that cannot revenge offensive Incineroar puts the nail in its usability coffin as well.

Miltank likely suffers from just not really doing enough to warrant a spot on most teams. Already its track record of being a Rocker that's walled by Xatu is not good. It's bulky and has reliable recovery, but it only has so many resistances at a time to make good use of its recovery, and on that note, most of whatever Miltank doesn't wall with the ability it chose can easily put heavy pressure on it or use it as setup fodder. Speaking of fodder, Miltank is often at the mercy of the large majority of other bulky Pokemon or offensive mons in the tier, especially with its heavy 4MSS of SR, Milk Drink, Toxic, and Seismic Toss preventing it from fitting other moves that would otherwise help dissuade most of its switch-ins.

Not only is Masquerain a Webber with the ability to easily bypass Xatu (heck, it uses non-Toxic Xatu as setup fodder), but its Bug + Water coverage coupled with Quiver Dance also makes it a legitimate offensive threat in its own right. It could even adopt a Quiver Dance + 3 attacks set to maximize its coverage if it really wants to (could even slap on a Z-Move on there if you're that ambitious), as its 4x resistances, Intimidate, & significantly better bulk than Vivillon help grant it setup opportunities, particularly against common Choice-locked Fighting and Grass attacks.

rozes Hitmonlee should be D btw
 
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Yoshi

IT'S FINK DUMBASS
What made Guzzlord drop an entire rank and I remember Hitmonlee used to be top tier. What made that bad
Well for the record, this is not based off of the old VR. This is a whole new thing, I know for sure that the council did not look at the old one while making this one. Instead, they went through the list of Pokemon and ranked them based on how they fit in the meta. That's why you may see things rise or drop drastic ranks, or even brand new mons such as Masquerain. In terms of Hitmonlee though, that was a gradual thing. Slowbro is mainly the big one, and Passimian outclassing as well. Hitmonlee still has its niche with Curse sets though.
 

poh

NUDA
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Hi.

-> A-

People have understood what this bird is capable of. I used to dislike it cause the Scarf set is weak to rocks and kinda weak in general 252 Atk Braviary Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 124 Def Delphox: 211-249 (59.7 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery. The Sub Bulk Up set is still ok but all the prominent rockers have something to deal with it, Helio's Hyper Voice, and the bulky waters have become more offensive, bar Vaporeon. Now what makes this mon rise in viability is the Bulk Up Flyinium/Fightinium set. +1 SSSS hits like 87 trucks and it enjoys the presence of Defoggers, Intimidate users and Parting shooters. Has the bulk to set-up, good speed and power and is a very effective breaker thanks to Superpower.

-> B-

Hugely slept on.

Charizard @ Firium Z
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Sunny Day
- Roost / Focus Blast

Z-day Zard is a very underrated wallbreaker. This set can adapt to the opponent's team. Early- and midgame you can dish out attacks or threaten out stuff and set up Sun. Make no mistake Sun-boosted Solar Power-boosted Inferno Overdrive is insane (chance to KO bulky Incineroar after rocks). It can also act as a Scarfer since Z-Sunny Day gives it +1 Speed outspeeding pretty much everything. Ofcourse it's still a Zard so it needs the much needed hazard control but you should really try it out. IMO it's better than what its current rank reflects.
 
Hi, so i've looking around the vr and what ppl think etc. and here i'm going to drop my own thoughts:

- First off i think Hitmonlee have enough usage (on ladder) to be ranked D.

A to A-/B+
A- to A


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

yes i will start this out with many nominations

rises:
View attachment 150625-> A- (bottom)
This is one of the changes that I honestly don't understand. Rotom has been arguably the most consistent form of hazard removal (read: best thing other than Xatu at preventing hazards) for quite some time now, and dropping it from A(?) makes pretty little sense to me tbh. Nothing in the metagame has really changed at all for it, and I'd argue that Sneasel's slow decline, which has allowed Rotom to run Iapapa Berry, has benefited it greatly. Sure, the rise in Vileplume has hurt it in the 1v1, but you Volt Switch on that, and Vileplume is not preventing a Defog.

View attachment 150626-> A- (somewhere idrk where lol)
WishTect Delphox has seen quite a surge in usage recently, and I think what it does is being underrated. Having one Pokemon capable of checking as many wallbreakers as it does is fantastic. It's also really great for balanced teams that choose to run with Seismitoad as their fat Water-type of choice, seeing as how you aren't pairing Toad with Vaporeon, and Delphox provides them with sustain via Wish. It also stops the broken Comfey, so bop.

drops:
View attachment 150631-> B or B- (somewhere)
I'm gonna just echo sentiments I had from the previous VR: I think Mega Christmas is really bad and fits on like one team archetype (vapo balance). It faces immense competition from Vani, Alolan Neck, and Sceptile as an Ice- or Grass-type wallbreaker, and it struggles to come in versus much of anything (things like Rotom and Heliolisk that you would think it would come in on just pivot on you with Volt Switch lmao) due to its really terrible defensive typing (which also shits on it due to hazards). Overall underwhelming and faces waaaay too many drawbacks to be considered much of a real pick.

View attachment 150630-> C+ (below Samurott)
This is an entry hazard setter that loses to Xatu, and it's a Steel-type that loses to Comfey. I frankly have never seen the appeal to Ferroseed other than it checking Heliolisk (which is clicking Volt most of the time anyhow) and being decent against some hazard removal, but it's a huge momentum drain and passive as hell.

View attachment 150629-> UR
ngl I think this guy is terrible and fits on very, very select builds. Trapping Steelix for Comfey is really nice, although that's about all it does in the current metagame. Steelvally can just pivot out with Parting Shot or U-turn, and Ferroseed is not exactly a Pokemon lol. I could see it just dropping to lower C, but it's honestly not great, and its niche is even more worthless with the huge drop off Torterra has undergone.[/QUOTE]
Rabia did also a pretty good job redacting this ones, and i think that all this should get moved too so ya.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Initial thoughts/nominations:

could move up to B.

While it still is underwhelming relative to where the initial hype wave put it in theory, Aerodactyl has a pretty developed place in the metagame now. The Choice Band set is annoying to switch-in to for a lot of teams and the Z set can even pick up a kill in a lot of scenarios. This in conjunction with a nearly unmatched speed tier (fuck you, Accelgor) and access to Pursuit, which has limited distribution in the current metagame, makes Aerodactyl a very viable option for a number of teams currently.

could move down to B.

The snowman is unfortunately very underwhelming in my experience. It is very hard to use on teams, let alone get to function consistently. It will see more usage than it deserves on the merit of it being a flashy pick that often forces people's hands defensively, but the burden it places upon teambuilding causes a certain degree of inherent inconsistency that strikes me as incredibly unappealing.

could move down to A-.

On the fence more about this one than the two above, but honestly Seismitoad just is not as good as it was during its initial NU stint and it really shows. The Toxic Refresh bullshit can be annoying, it has a solid defensive presence, and it can up sorta ok, but a lot of things take advantage of it currently. A big one is Alolan Exeggutor, but even the aforementioned Mega Abomasnow tears it a new one. And don't even get me started on how weak Scald is against things like Xatu when you just want to fucking set up Stealth Rock before the world comes to an end. All things considered, I am just not too high on Seismitoad in general atm, but perhaps there is a bit more for me to individually explore on this front.

Love this VR reboot overall!


S/o to Rabia, Punchshroom and Finchinator for this^ nomminations, i couldn't quote you all in there. It looked messed up so i'll just do this ig.:blobshrug:

Ok so now that i alrdy talked about nominations that have already got a large explain i'm going to drop my personal thoughts on some mons that still didn't got nommed:

-
B -> B+. Vivillon is one of the most scary mons to face overall because it can almost cheese any match out to his way, thx to his ability+ sleep powder and the lack of good sp.def walls that can check him while still being able to kill it back. Vivillon is an amazing late game sweeper, that can clean any game if you don't take care of it.

-
C -> C+. After speaking about vivillon and how it can break throught the sp.def walls in this meta. I feel the need to talk about Togedemaru. This mon is one mon that is really underated rn. Both his sets are pretty decent; being the sp.def one being able to check things suck as helio, the already mentioned vivillon and the ice cream. Meanwhile the scarf one can do pretty well if your team needs speed control and you are using another fighting type not named passimian or this one in his banded version, and can win games from preview depending on the matchup.

-
-> (dropping to the bottom of B-)

-
-> (dropping to the bottom of B+)

-
-> (rising up to garbodor on A+)
 

Jisoo

i got so much balls you could call it tapioca
some thoughts:

i don't really understand how Druddigon isn't at the level of the other rockers in a meta where xatu is warping the hazards game so heavily and it's the only rocker that doesn't have to play that bs 50/50. it's WAY better than seismitoad since defensive cant even get up rocks vs xatu and offensive is just bad cause it is not switching in multiple times to stuff like passimian CC and is not switching into incineroar at +2. glare is also incredibly useful atm because para lol. vanilluxe paired with druddigon is extremely dangerous cause the switchins like iapapa incineroar are taking 25% every time and are not checking vani long term. use sr / glare / taunt / dragon tail | roar if you wanna ultra cuck xatu i guess. should for sure be in between rhydon and seismitoad but anywhere in a is fine

e: finchinator summed up why seismi is bad pretty much, didnt see that at first
e2: heres an excellent replay showcasing druddigon + vanilluxe and how easy the game becomes when rocks are guaranteed and vanilluxe can pressure the defoggers: [battle]

i think comfey has proven that it belongs in a+. i think ppl feel pretty mixed about comfey but its really hard to deny the impact that it has in the builder and moreso in the battle.

[22:03:08] Old Man Rant: yo lets talk about how broken scrafty is
[22:03:13] Old Man Rant: what other mon sets up its own sweep so well
[22:03:19] joyous days: comfey

this thing is able to setup its own sweep so well with hp fire (or hp ice if you have ever used that) and once the checks like lix have been sufficiently weakened there really isnt anything stopping it from getting up to +1 and cleaning out your whole team. triage is busted and makes the offense matchup way too good for me to be comfortable with it sitting in a. it has an impressive snake & nu playoffs to show for it so for those reasons it should be in a.

yoshi nommed this yesterday but then deleted his post so im here instead. the best set for mismage is nasty plot / shadow ball / power gem / taunt with ghostium and its a pretty easy mon to throw on offense cause it can spinblock vs blastoise and can pressure the other hazard control mons like golbat with taunt + power gem. i've been using this with druddigon lately and its been putting in so much work. with the guaranteed rocks that drudd provides it makes the incineroar matchup easy enough to the point where you can afford to run ghostium instead and nuke something like steelix while still threatening incin with a +2 power gem. raise this to b-, its definitely worth using on some teams.

i'd like to echo the thoughts of Punchshroom on this one. eggy-a is one of the best wallbreakers in the tier rn when the only steel-types are steelix (not a check) and silvally-steel (not a longterm check). it switches in way easier than, say, abomasnow because its typing is much better and isnt as afraid of chip damage since it isnt weak to rocks and has giga drain (and it isnt as slow ._.). it nukes pretty much everything else though, and functions (wallbreaking ability wise) at a level similar to vanilluxe, only they arent at the same level cos the speed tier is a lot worse. it for sure belongs in a.

i dont wanna make this too long though since its getting there. masquerain is fine, ive used it and its gotten unnecessary hate. place aromatisse in b or b- i guess? i dont know where councils thoughts are on that one but uh yeah.
 
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Punchshroom

FISHIOUS REND MEGA SHARPEDO
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UR to C

So it's been established that Qwilfish is largely outclassed by Garbodor in the defensive Spiker role, since teams tend to get more value out of Garbodor's major chip damage as well as its ability to pressure Xatu with Gunk Shot. However, what about from an offensive Spiking perspective?

Qwilfish @ Waterium Z
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spikes
- Aqua Tail
- Taunt
- Toxic Spikes / Toxic / Destiny Bond

252 Atk Qwilfish Aqua Tail vs. 252 HP / 196+ Def Xatu: 114-135 (34.1 - 40.4%) [114 damage min.]
252 Atk Qwilfish Hydro Vortex (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 196+ Def Xatu: 220-259 (65.8 - 77.5%) [220 damage min.]
Aqua Tail into Z-Aqua Tail is a narrowly guaranteed 2HKO on Xatu, but Toxic Plate Garbodor can 2HKO all the same without having to time a Z-Move, so is this worth it? Fortunately, Hydro Vortex hits a lot more than just Xatu, since it grants Qwilfish the ability to OHKO Rhydon & offensive Diancie and heavily dent Steelix & Piloswine (with the possibility of a 2HKO / OHKO, respectively), whereas Garbo is either forced out or commits itself to death while the opponent sets up. Hydro Vortex also revenge kills bulky Incineroar, Magmortar, & Medicham, deals 93% minimum to Vanilluxe (>60% chance to OHKO), and just generally serves as an unexpectedly hard hit coming from a fast support mon, meaning Qwilfish retains notable offensive utility should it survive setting up Spikes. Qwilfish also has Taunt, which is really nice for shutting down things like Silvally-Steel, Golbat, Druddigon, Ferroseed, etc. from disrupting setup or preventing them from doing their own thing. Qwilfish can afford Toxic Spikes in its last slot, but it could also easily branch out should it not need that; Toxic comboes with Taunt for hilarious albeit mild stallbreaking utility since this Qwil is not defensively invested, but can still royally mess with bulky Waters like Vaporeon, Blastoise, and Slowbro. Destiny Bond can prematurely remove a mon that is either Taunted or is too hasty to kill Qwilfish before it lays down too many Spikes, and is much less telegraphed than Froslass's Destiny Bond.

Tl;dr: Basically Qwilfish combines a little bit of Accelgor's pressure, Froslass's disruption, and Garbodor's defensive utility to become a usable offensive Spiker. Obviously it has its big shortcomings, such as its vulnerability to most faster leads (or Pokemon in general) and need for a Z-Move, but I feel it's just about successful enough in this role to warrant C Rank.

Also you can use Throat Chop into Z-Throat Chop to 2HKO AV Slowbro and still nail Xatu hard lol
 
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Rabia

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UR to C

So it's been established that Qwilfish is largely outclassed by Garbodor in the defensive Spiker role, since teams tend to get more value out of Garbodor's major chip damage as well as its ability to pressure Xatu with Gunk Shot. However, what about from an offensive Spiking perspective?

Qwilfish @ Waterium Z
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spikes
- Aqua Tail
- Taunt
- Toxic Spikes / Toxic / Destiny Bond

Aqua Tail into Z-Aqua Tail is a narrowly guaranteed 2HKO on Xatu, but Toxic Plate Garbodor can 2HKO all the same without having to time a Z-Move, so is this worth it? Fortunately, Hydro Vortex hits a lot more than just Xatu, since it grants Qwilfish the ability to OHKO Rhydon & offensive Diancie and heavily dent Steelix & Piloswine (with the possibility of a 2HKO / OHKO, respectively), whereas Garbo is either forced out or commits itself to death while the opponent sets up. Hydro Vortex also revenge kills bulky Incineroar, Magmortar, & Medicham, deals 93% minimum to Vanilluxe (>60% chance to OHKO), and just generally serves as an unexpectedly hard hit coming from a fast support mon, meaning Qwilfish retains notable offensive utility should it survive setting up Spikes. Qwilfish also has Taunt, which is really nice for shutting down things like Silvally-Steel, Golbat, Druddigon, Ferroseed, etc. from disrupting setup or preventing them from doing their own thing. Qwilfish can afford Toxic Spikes in its last slot, but it could also easily branch out should it not need that; Toxic comboes with Taunt for hilarious albeit mild stallbreaking utility since this Qwil is not defensively invested, but can still royally mess with bulky Waters like Vaporeon, Blastoise, and Slowbro. Destiny Bond can prematurely remove a mon that is either Taunted or is too hasty to kill Qwilfish before it lays down too many Spikes, and is much less telegraphed than Froslass's Destiny Bond.

Tl;dr: Basically Qwilfish combines a little bit of Accelgor's pressure, Froslass's disruption, and Garbodor's defensive utility to become a usable offensive Spiker. Obviously it has its big shortcomings, such as its vulnerability to most faster leads (or Pokemon in general) and need for a Z-Move, but I feel it's just about successful enough in this role to warrant C Rank.

Also you can use Throat Chop into Z-Throat Chop to 2HKO AV Slowbro and still nail Xatu hard lol
I'd love to see some replays of this, since while all of these positives seem really nice, I don't really see why I would bother to see Qwilfish over something like a Garbodor. Garbodor comes with less opportunity cost given it doesn't need a Z-Crystal to beat Xatu up, and it still beats Diancie (and Rhydon somewhat) reliably:

252+ Atk Poison Barb Garbodor Gunk Shot vs. 188 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 147-174 (51 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (so yeah catch it as it switches in, and you're golden)

252+ Atk Garbodor Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 180-212 (43.4 - 51.2%) -- 45.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (this is the bad spread I would argue, but it's still super common on the ladder, so there's some relevance I guess?? Anyhow this is some good chip lol.

I also feel Garbodor's defensive utility is a bit better simply because of a resistance to Grass; soft checking Sceptile and Comfey is really nice (Qwilfish loses to Giga Drain cwl), and compressing this utility onto a team is super useful in the current meta.
 

Punchshroom

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I mean no duh Garbodor has overall wider defensive utility than Qwilfish, and I'm already nomming Qwilfish for merely C Rank knowing this.

That said, offensive Garbodor only ever softchecks Pokemon since it doesn't have bulk investment nor even Rocky Helmet to properly dissuade attacks for very long, and for that matter, I'm against the idea of non-Jolly offensive Garbodor since that just becomes another Specs Vanilluxe victim, which by proxy makes Garbo's attacks less consistent against Stealth Rockers that switch in, much less those that face off against it 1v1.

Qwilfish checks even less, but it does hard check the likes of Passimian and Incineroar (bulky Incineroar's Knock Off 5HKOes and EQ is an unreliable 2HKO, while offensive Incineroar doesn't even secure a KO with Malicious Moonsault after SR), and the sheer prevalence of those two alone provide ample Spiking opportunities. This is especially notable in the case of Incineroar, where most offensive team's best switch-in to it is usually along the lines of Passimian / Diancie / Rhydon, which detest getting Knocked Off.
 
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Qwilfish has a niche on rain teams, but I believe it is outclassed as a spiker. A lot of rain teams struggle against comfey. Poisonium Z is really powerful, at +2 you OHKO AV Slowbro and it’s faster than everything under rain. I don’t think rain is a very explored play style in NU, so I think it should be ranked somewhere in the bottom of C at the moment.
 
rozes fav mon B ---> A-

This nomination isn't so much on what has made Golbat better in the metagame, but more on how it's undervalued on a team spot when it can take on near full teams that don't have a strong super effective wallbreaker. Hate on Golbat all you want, you know it's good hehe. I know there's people out there who can see that Golbat has great walling potential. Personally, I don't even bother using its recommended EV spread with all that speed, it's so unnecessary and you miss out on so much bulk, why waste it over outspeeding Vanilluxe when you probably have a check in the back anyway? Honestly it's one of the best mixed walls we have taking on neutral attackers and even with a rock/electric/ice weaknesses, it can still play around with roost (Pretty sure it beats diancie 1vs1). Just because they have something with super effective coverage, doesn't mean that you're forced out because it tanks hits for days and most mons struggle to do major damage w/o invested super effective hits. 75/70/75 goes a long way w/ eviolite.

Poison Fang > Toxic works really well atm because it acts as a way to beat Night Shade Xatu and ofc free damage / not taunt bait, it's an easy mon to throw on balance and gives you something to switch into Vileplume and Comfey without being weak to any coverage, a lot of these balance teams are forced into Incineroar or Delphox and dislike they taking sludge bomb + a potential poison.

Sometimes Golbat brings passiveness to its name and while it doesn't really beat Steelix, it still has ways to annoy it. Super Fang, Taunt and the questionable meme of heat wave can have some small fun, but Steelix it still needs to be careful, if Steelix's leftovers have been knocked off, it's really going to struggle to take you down as you can get chip damage while Lix struggles back.

I used Golbat in my game for SPL and it stayed throughout the entire match switching into Specs Guzzlord and checking Wish Delphox. After his Steelix was out, I managed to sweep with it. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7nu-410805

Here's another SPL replay from LAX showcasing Golbats walling potential https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7nu-420723
Despite his opponent having 2 ice types, Lax managed to get rocks up and Golbat was able to stay healthy the entire game and cause disruption with Poison Fang and Roost alone.
Please show some love for this cute Pokemon! :psyglad:
 

Rabia

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love queen rozes

ok so more noms, mainly regarding the new drops, but knowing me I'll decide that some other mons are misplaced along the way cwl


NEW MONS
1547815587923.png
-> A- (above Druddigon)
This could change very easily for me, although I think this is a fair starting point. Mega Glalie is an extremely potent wallbreaker and provides excellent utility for its team with Spikes and the NUKE known as Explosion. The main problem I see with it is the competition it faces from Vanilluxe, as well as other wallbreakers. While it doesn't provide as much utility, Vanilluxe is a much more potent wallbreaker due to the absurd strength of Blizzard and hail chip. This lets it fairly reliably break its checks just by clicking its STAB attack. Additionally, Vanilluxe turns many Ice-resistant Pokemon into death fodder, since its Freeze-Dry is really hard to switch into even for Pokemon like Vaporeon and Slowbro. This may be a bit low, but I feel the level of competition Mega Glalie faces justifies a less-than generous initial placement.

1547815858739.png
-> B- (above Klinklang)
I've been messing around with Gastrodon some, and I think it's a nice balance Pokemon for teams that don't want to use Vaporeon or AV Slowbro to check Magmortar. The Electric immunity is nice too, since it lets Gastrodon check Heliolisk as well as Rotom really effectively; I definitely think specially defensive is the way to go with this Pokemon just because of what its typing lets it handle. Unfortunately, Gastrodon does face competition from these other bulky Water-types regardless of its perks, and it is extremely passive and is bait for scary wallbreakers like Vanilluxe, Alolan Exeggutor, and Sceptile. It also just doesn't provide the team utility and scouting that Slowbro and Vaporeon do, in my opinion.

RISES
1547816169950.png
-> B- (above Scrafty)
This is another Pokemon I've been testing, and I think it's criminally underrated currently. The ability to check the wallbreakers it does it amazing for so many builds, and it gets to punish stuff like Passimian with its scouting tool in Spiky Shield. It is still somewhat frail, which is a bummer, and falls to certain coverage moves, but the role compression of Wish + pivot + scouting is :sonice:.

also put shitmonlee in d rank thank
 

SBPC

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NEW MONS

-> A- (above Druddigon)
This could change very easily for me, although I think this is a fair starting point. Mega Glalie is an extremely potent wallbreaker and provides excellent utility for its team with Spikes and the NUKE known as Explosion. The main problem I see with it is the competition it faces from Vanilluxe, as well as other wallbreakers. While it doesn't provide as much utility, Vanilluxe is a much more potent wallbreaker due to the absurd strength of Blizzard and hail chip. This lets it fairly reliably break its checks just by clicking its STAB attack. Additionally, Vanilluxe turns many Ice-resistant Pokemon into death fodder, since its Freeze-Dry is really hard to switch into even for Pokemon like Vaporeon and Slowbro. This may be a bit low, but I feel the level of competition Mega Glalie faces justifies a less-than generous initial placement.
Gonna have to hard disagree. Mega-Glalie is hardly as powerful as it seems, as a lot of really common mons can switch into it relatively easy, especially on mispredict. Examples such as Slowbro, Ferroseed, Incineroar, Vaporeon, and Blastoise showcase this. As you mentioned, it takes competition from vanilluxe, and in my opinion, Vanilluxe completely and utterly outclasses it as a wallbreaker. I will give that it can set spikes and create offensive pressure through hazards, but we have so many forms of viable hazard control in the tier that chances are, spikes aren't going to be staying up for long, not to add on the fact that one of my mentioned checks, Blastoise, can rapid spin said spikes away, and Z Refresh off any damage.
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie-Mega Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blastoise: 166-196 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Glalie-Mega Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blastoise: 74-88 (20.4 - 24.3%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie-Mega Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blastoise: 80-95 (22 - 26.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
Personally, because of the above, I would put Mega-Glalie at B+, as it has some validation as a utility wallbreaker, but i find it hard to justify using over mons like vanilluxe, magmortar, etc.

Hard agree w/ Gastro placements and Toge rise for the same reasons as user posted above.
and yeah put shitmonlee in D rank ty
 
Mega Glalie to B+?! No way. I agree with Rabia that M-Glalie should be ranked at least A- rank.

as a lot of really common mons can switch into it relatively easy
This is not true. Sure, you might think this based off of Explosion + Spikes hype by certain people but, M-Glalie puts a lot of pressure on all the mons you listed with: Freeze Dry, Earthquake, and Return/Double Edge. Hitmontop does a better job at checking M-Glalie than Blastoise. Including the spinning part.

4 SpA Glalie-Mega Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blastoise: 168-200 (46.4 - 55.2%) -- 14.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Refrigerate Glalie-Mega Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 111-132 (36.5 - 43.4%) -- 98.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Glalie-Mega Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hitmontop: 82-97 (26.9 - 31.9%) -- 34.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

The main reason to use M-Glalie over Vanilluxe is that it's AOA set can deal with Hyper Offense a bit easier. Ice Shard, Return, Freeze Dry, and Earthquake.

Mega Glalie has great ways of handling most of the meta with whatever set it runs and that should be a good reason why it should be A- at the very least. Not only that, but the council vote was close on the suspect.

P.S. I hope someone advocates a ranking for Bronzor - It can handle Diancie, Piloswine, Rhydon, Steelix, Sceptile, Comfey, and M-Glalie (walls every set with ease). It's also a hard check to Vanniluxe and Vileplume.
 
Update time! We voted on all the nominations up to this post and made some small edits to subrankings. (Note: Any ties in the raw votes were settled internally, e.g Mega Glalie's placement.)



Rises:
Aerodactyl: B- > B
Exeggutor-Alola: A- > A
Braviary: B+ > A-
Togedemaru: C > B-
Glalie-Mega: New > A
Gastrodon: New > B

Drops:
Abomasnow-Mega: B+ > C+
Seismitoad: A > A-
Ferroseed: B- > C+


Discussion Points:
  • Passimian: A+ > S
  • Diancie: A > A+
  • Piloswine: B > B-
  • Dodrio: C > UR
  • Houndoom: C > D
 

Rabia

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gonna just make a post on the discussion points because I can't be bothered to look at other stuff right now

1548704140453.png
-> S
I think Passimian is quite possibly one of the most defining Pokemon in the tier currently. Here you have a Pokemon that finds itself on a great percentage of teams both in ladder and tournament play thanks to its reliability and splashability as a Choice Scarf user. There's not really much to say about this Pokemon, since it isn't like the meta has changed much for it; this is simply a Pokemon that has withstood the test of time ever since it first arrived to the tier. I guess you could say it benefits from Mega Glalie being a drop lately? I wouldn't say that should be the reason it rises to S though; rather, it's moreso that Passimian has been underrated in a way for awhile due to its one-dimensional nature. But is that really a reason to keep it A+? I don't think so. I think the dominance its Choice Scarf set has shown for quite some time now demonstrates just how great of a Pokemon this is. I would argue to move it above Heliolisk if I'm honest lol.

1548704466255.png
-> A+
This is a no-brainer for me. Just going by what is currently in A+ and my opinion on the Pokemon there, Diancie is easily at least on their level, if not above it. It's arguably the best Stealth Rock user we have, and the ability to tap Xatu is obviously great given its prevalence. I also really dig the Heal Bell support currently; Toxic is just absurdly common, and being able to compress the two roles while not giving up offensive pressure is really sweet. I would probably put this above Steelix, but the two are largely interchangeable in my opinion.

1548704597060.png
-> B-
I don't think Piloswine is necessarily bad, and in a vacuum you would think it'd be pretty decent given it threatening Xatu and checking both Vanilluxe and Mega Glalie rather effectively. The problem is it doesn't do a whole lot else defensively, and offensively it struggles because of all the great bulky Water-types the tier has. On paper, Ice / Ground is absurdly difficult to check, but when you have stuff like Vaporeon and Slowbro running rampant, it becomes much easier to deal with. This can probably go above Scrafty.

1548704826063.png
-> UR
dogshit mon that struggles to do really anything. ideally it has a niche over Braviary as a strong setup sweeper, but then you realize it has no defensive presence at all, and the Speed advantage isn't all that rewarding. I don't think it's unusable, but it's next to impossible to justify actually using.

1548704917082.png
-> D
dog shit mon too, but not to the point we should D rank it (it's still NU). the competition with Incineroar is incredibly harmful to its viability, but that doesn't make it unusable; it just means you reeeeeally have to cater to it in building. I'd probably move it to either above or below Gallade because offensively this Pokemon is still incredibly deadly, and its defensive qualities are still decent enough to where you do have a fair amount of chances to set up in a game. it will always be Passimian bait, but I don't think asking for Passimian to lose its Choice Scarf is all that hard in a meta in which Passimian loves switching into the wrestle cat lol.

1548705135404.png
this can go in D though. I know eternally has a fetish for it, but this Pokemon is actually unviable garbage that needs to go back to PU/PUBL or wherever the hell it belongs. if someone has replays of it in actual games putting in work then please share them, but I have yet to ever see a Malamar do anything more than use Superpower twice and die to a Passimian U-turn or a Comfey Draining Kiss
 
Here I am, with another post, i've been waiting for the vr to be updated before doing it so let's get to it.

About the discussion points:

-> A+

I think that even passimian is without any doubt one of the most meta-defining mons rn, i wouldn't say it has the need to rise, it definetly is the best choice scarfer and the most reliable one rn, but when we all are building for the currently meta i still have to hear someone "i need a passimian check" while all the S mon are usually in everyones mind when building; so i actually think that passimian should stay in A+. (Maybe above xatu)
Another point for passimian to stay is that you hardly ever will hear "i lost because they had passimian" but you can hear from time to time this statement from the S mons and even that the usage of passi is high i don't see this a reason for a mon to raise.

-> A

I already been discussing this one yesterday with some other users and even i understand why does people think that it should rise, i still need to read an argument that convice me otherwise.
In my opinion Diancie is an amazing rocker that pressures a lot thanks to it's offensive stats but (even it's a small edge) i don't think it is better than the other mons of A or that is as good as the A+ mons, as a rocker while it's one of the best, it's not a centralizing option since there are a lot more options such as steelix or rhydon, and his more offensive versions (Z or specs) are not as good as other mons such as helio or Z magmortar for example.
Again, i would understand it rising since my edge on it staying in A is pretty small, but i'm personally not conviced yet.

-> B-

I see no reason for pilo to stay B, there are better rocker options rn and while it can still be ok, i'd rarely prioritize it against other options. (I could repeat what rabia said about what it checks and it's offensive prowess but i see it pointless).

-> UR

Why did this mon initially got ranked again? This mon (even it being faster) gets totally outclassed by braviary, it can be "better" than as a setup sweeper, but after dropping Z it struggles to break classic balances, and it also gets revenge killed by almost every mon faster than it (and passimian) due to its low defensive stats.

-> C (below cryogonal)

I don't think this mon should get unranked since it definetly can be used and has a niche as a good special breaker, the thing with it is struggles a lot when you want to fit it into a team, delphox and mainly incineroar do a better job usually but this isn't a reason for it to get UR (watcho gastro/seismi example) it just does mean it deserve to get ranked lower.

Now some other mons up to discussion:

from C -> B- (below medi)

I really think that hari is pretty underated rn, on a metagame where the special breakers are the daily of the tier, makes hari a good option to add to your teams thanks to it's amazing bulk and it hits pretty hard too. It just check so well all the ice type wallbreakers such as vanilluxe, glalie or Mabomasnow and can also deal with fire types such as magmortar or incin, i definetly wouldn't rank this mon this low when it does a clearly amazing job.

from B+ -> B (idrk where)

I think that in the way that the tier is developing, i feel like whimsi is everytime in a worst spot, as a grass breaker it gets totally outclasses by others such as sceptile or eggyA, and as a fairy type breaker diancie and comfey does better it's job.

from C+ to C (low C maybe even below malamar)

I've never been too high on this since it gets outclassed in all his roles, it's an awful rocker/spiker that invites xatu to come for free every time and it gets outclassed by every other rocker and garbodor, as a fat special wall, it fails too since it doesn't have a reliable way to sustain itself, and the things it's supposed to check (helio, comfey, fat waters...) deal with it easy, helio have a free volt switch on it, comfey does 1v1 it with HP fire, and the fat waters can burn it with scald which will chip down faster ferro. I'm not saying this mon is awful but it never been good after venu went to ru.

Edit: Thanks to who ever did the hitmonlee thing, and sry i wasn't trying to seem obnoxius, but it just didn't make sense.
 
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Passimian to S rank Agreed - This mon is super good. End of story. Nah, just kidding. I really like using Passimian on most teams due to the amount of bulk it has, allowing to come in and tank necessary hits. Not many other scarf mons can do that. Not only that but, its stats are very manageable when it comes to tours, as seen with bulk up & z sets. I mainly just use Scarf though, its best set. It's also one of the best U-Turners in the tier due to it's high attack which comes in handy for chipping away at mons like Slowbro. Definitely the best scarf user in the tier.

Diancie A to A+ Agreed - Always thought this mon should be higher ranked. It's huge bulk coupled with it's decent power makes it a tough mon to check, especially if sturdy is up. If Incineroar is not running EQ then, it finds a tough time trying to get chip as Diancie resists both STABs and U-Turn. It's a great blanket check to a majority of the tier. Although it's 4x weak to steel, there are only 3 relevant steel types that out speed and none of which have too much usage. It's a great rocker since Xatu doesn't appreciate coming in on power gem or diamond storm. It's also a great check to the new threat, M-Glalie.

My own nomination
Bronzor Unranked to C rank - A great wall that is highly needed in the tier. A hard defensive check to Sceptile, Heliolisk, Vanniluxe, and Vileplume. It even walls a good portion of the meta including Braviary, M-Glalie, Diancie, Piloswine, Rhydon, and Steelix.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-855578527 - Bronzor in action. If I had rested on the Heliolisk then, I could have easily walled the last 2 mons.
The set I use down below.

Bronzor @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Psywave
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

I was hoping someone else would do this because I don't like using Bronzor. I hate its design lol
 

Snou

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Passimian: A+ > S -> I couldn't agree more on this. Passimian clearly deserves to be ranked this high: it's one of the most prominent scarfers in the tier and I wonder why this didn't happen before. Its impact on the metagame is huge in a positive way: Passimian offers a good speed tier, combined with an high attack stat, a volturn move, a reliable revenge killer, a good typing, an amazing coverage and a powerful STAB all in one single slot. In addition, it's one of the few mons that can check or revengekill Incineroar, Glalie or Heliolisk. It provides high momentum turns thanks to the fact that most switchins on Passimian are usually slow and passive walls. This means that Passimian offers to the other mons a good chance to wallbreak or setup. In addition, it's green, and I truly love green mons.


Diancie: A > A+ -> Diancie is a really good mon right now. Being on of the few mons in the tier able to put offensive rocks pressure on Xatu that can't switchin freely on Power Gems, especially on offensive Diancies, is something you really need if you want to break stalls or fat balanced cores. Diancie is also an amazing wallbreaker if wears specs, or the fairy crystal + calm mind. In addition, its shuca variant takes care of Incineroar most of the times and its extremely light weight makes Delphox's Grass knot nearly useless. Diancie is one of the few mons that is good on a defensive side but still menacing as sweeper. With this being said, yeh, I agree on an A+ rank.


Piloswine: B > B- -> I've never liked Piloswine tbh. A pseudo-offensive rocker with a good coverage that can't recover and has few chances to get up rocks again if fails the first time, that supposedly checks ice mons thanks to its thick fat ability, but can't recover the damage dealt so is bound to die sooner or later. Yeh, I'd drop it tbh.


Dodrio: C > UR -> didn't even know Dodrio was ranked. Seriously, if you rank Dodrio you probably have to rank a plethora of other mons with similiar stats, moves and coverage. I agree on this too.


Houndoom: C > D -> I disagree on this one. Houndoom is not the best mon, and we all know it, but it still has a nice as a plot z dark sweeper that makes him somehow decent at least, and I think it should not leave this rank because it's the rank that best represents its level in this tier. As a scarfer it's outclassed by Delphox, and I wouldn't count it as a pursuit user at all, but plot z is a good set.

my personal nomination...

Cryogonal C > B- ->
Now seriously, why is Cryogonal ranked this low? Man Cryogonal is one of the few mons that can safely switchin on Glalie (ofc, if it doesn't explode), easily stall double edges forcing Glalie to switch or die, spin Glalie's spikes safely and toxic coming Incineroars. Its physical frailness is ofc a huge problem for a spinner, but Sneasel dropped a lot in usage in this metagame, and ofc you can't expect Cryo to take on Klinklangs. Cryogonal, on the other hand, is a fast remover with a decent coverage in Freeze Dry that allows it to hit Slowbros, Seismitoads, Vileplumes, and a good defensive type thanks to levitate. It switchins on non-wood hammer Abomasnow, Vanilluxe, Vileplume, Palossand, Xatu, Whimsicott, Blastoise, Gastrodon and forces them out in most cases. I mean, it's way better than Piloswine and in addition it's a Snowflake I swear it counts as a valid argumentation it's a solid option that fullfils a good number of utilities on a team.
 
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SBPC

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Alright gonna drop my opinions on VR

Passimian A+ > S
Yeah anything that can be said for this has already been stated, and its definitely the best scarfer in the tier. It's the best U-turn user for chipping down slowbro, can decimate the other S tiers with it's mighty Close Combat, and just generally check most of if not all of the tier with it's standard moves.


Bronzor: UR > C
Had Tmac not mentioned this mon via his nomination, I would have continued to forget it's existence and not ever acknowledged it bar ZU usage. I toyed around with it on ladder and saw how it's definitely worth of the C ranking. The fact that it walls so many mons astounds me, and it definitely deserves more attention.

Houndoom C > D
Honestly just.. no. This mon is still useful with it's Z plot set and has the ability to nail through a lot of mons in the tier. Definitely not the best mon, but also definitely not UR

Diancie A > A+
Piloswine B > B-
Dodrio C > UR
 

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