Lower Tiers USUM NU Viability Rankings - v2

Well, yet again, another pokemon that is not-so-good in NeverUsed, but for some reason better in RarelyUsed: Mega Abomasnow. (Just kidding, I'm not talking about this guy today. You don't have to. *FINE*) And this is my first NeverUsed forum post. So here we are.
Passamian (A.K.A Uber Scarfer 2.0 (Da Ba Dee)) to S: Definitely! Who wouldn't say yes?
This thing has to be one of the best scarfers in NeverUsed. With a high attack stat plus access to U-Turn (Fuck you, Sawk), this guy can escape bad matchups and switch into another teammate to deal with said threat. It has a decent speed tier, allowing to function as a reliable revenge killer. Combine this with a great offensive typing, amazing coverage, and a powerful STAB in Close Combat in one slot, and you have the uber-god of NU Choice Scarfers on your hands. Being able to revenge-kill Incineroar, Heliosk, and the recently introduced Mega Glalie is a big boon for it, and it offers a lot of momentum, since most of the switch-ins Passamian has are mostly slow and passive walls. This thing punches through unprepared teams, and this is something I think should rise.
Diancie to A+: Probably?
Unfortunately, this thing has a sucky speed stat, which can allow pokemon such as Sceptile, Vaporeon, and even Steelix to KO it, though the latter is much slower. Steelix in particular also has the Steel typing, which is shared with pokemon such as Sivally-Steel, Klinklang, and Togedemaru to easily KO it with their Steel-type STAB, though fortunately, Diancie's speed tier, while a double-edged sword, means that Steelix's Gyro Ball won't be able to hit as hard. But let's look at the positives, shall we? Being able to put offensive SR pressure on Xatu, who can't switch in on its STAB Power Gem, is a big boon for it. It's a great stallbreaker and completely rips fat balanced cores to shreds. It can also function as a wallbreaker with Choice Specs or Calm Mind + Fairy Gem. Its Shuca variant takes care of Incineroar, free of injury, and its extremely light weight makes Delphox's Grass Knot pretty much useless. It's one of the few pokemon that are good on defense but also good on offense. While it does have to watch out for Sceptile, Vaporeon, Steelix, Klinklang, Torterra, Sivally-Steel, Togedemaru, Blastoise, and Decidueye KOing it, I feel that it should still rise, but I think that we would have to account for its flaws more often than not.
Piloswine to B-: 50/50
It's a fat rocker with good coverage that it can't get up and it can't set SR more than once if it fails. It's supposed to check Ice-Types due to its ability Thick Fat but can't recover off the damage, so expect it to die fast. It requires a lot of team support, but it makes up for these flaws with a good offensive typing. However, lack of bulk and the amount of team support needed really hurts it. At this point I'm not even sure if I should say yes or no.
Dodrio to UR: 100% Agreed
There's no reason to use it in NeverUsed anymore. As an offensive flying-type, it's hopelessly outclassed by Braviary, Aerodactyl, Sigilyph, and Golbat, although it has higher speed than Braviary. It has literally no bulk whatsoever. It's frail, useless, and a waste of a teamslot. Do not use it. Ever. It should not be considered over other Flying-Types such as Braviary, Aerodactyl, Sigilyph, and Golbat.
Houndoom to D: Disagree
Its Z-Nasty Plot set is quite good and it has the ability to completely tear apart most mons in the tier. It really shouldn't be compared to Incineroar. Why? Incineroar and Houndoom do completely different things. Incineroar is a wallbreaker/pivot. Houndoom can be a pursuit trapper. While there are faster and more relevant pursuit trappers (e.g, Sneasel), being able to run a mixed set with moves like a STAB Fire Blast/Flamethrower/Dark Pulse allows it to target Z-Slowbro. While it's not the best, it's not worthy of D rank in my eyes.
Hariyama to B-: 50/50, leaning towards agree
Unfortunately its defenses suck, and it's really slow. It faces competition from Passamian and Medicham, with the former having access to U-Turn and the latter having more immediate power. But let's look at the positives, shall we? In a meta infested with special attackers, Hariyama's high HP allows it to eat a hit and retaliate back HARD. It can check the resident ice-types, namely Vanilluxe, Mega Glalie, and Mega Abomasnow (assuming it's not carrying Wood Hammer), and it can check the resident fire types, such as Magmortar and Incineroar. However, it has a crummy speed tier and bulk, but if you can work around its flaws, you have a powerful team choice on your hands.
Now time for some noms of my own:
Gallade to D or UR:
If anything, there's literally no reason to use Gallade anymore. This thing is hopelessly outclassed by Sigilyph, Xatu, Medicham, Slowbro, Slowking, and Delphox as a psychic-type in general, due to their more useful secondary typings, and while Medicham does share the same typing, it has better direct power. This thing's physical bulk is total shit. Any physical hit is guranteed to OHKO or 2HKO it. As a fighting-type, things don't get much better. In fact, they get much worse. Even Sawk or Hitmonlee are better choices as a fighting-type. Just use Hariyama, Scrafty, or Passamian. They pack U-Turn in the case of Passamian, higher power (You should have known this), or Shed Skin to set up in Scrafty's case. This pokemon is kind-of-slow, useless, frail, and a waste of a teamslot. Make it PU. It's not even viable here anymore. Hitmonlee and Sawk were and will always be way better than this son-of-a-dick. So yeah, Houndoom is red, for the fact we all know, Gallade is dogshit, and so is Malamar. They have no business being on the viability rankings at all. No, seriously, Gallade? Lol no one uses this anymore, and I'm happy no one uses Gallade at all. It's bad. Do I have to say more? And for Malamar - yeah, get this dogshit off the VR.
 
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Yoshi

IT'S FINK DUMBASS
-> D (disagree)
This is a change I disagree with for a few reasons. While one can argue that Incineroar completely outclasses as a Fire / Dark-type, they really perform different roles for the team. I think the main advantage Houndoom has over Incineroar is Pursuit. There are faster and more relevant Pursuiters like Sneasel, but what makes Houndoom special is that it can run a mixed set with moves like Fire Blast / Flamethrower and Dark Pulse. This make certain MUs versus Pokemon like Z-Slowbro a lot better for Houndoom than it would for Sneasel. It's not like people aren't fitting Houndoom on teams either, I've seen quite a few good teams used recently carrying Houndoom, so it's not like it's hard to fit it on teams either. Not to mention, there's a set that not a lot of people think about, being a bulkier Toxic set, which I've found to be quite effective. There's just a lot more substance and niche to Houndoom than people think, so I definitely don't think that it should drop to D rank.

-> UR
This Pokemon used to hold a strong niche in the tier, but not really anymore. In the past people would pair this with Comfey or Klinklang to trap the bad Steel-types like Steelix and Silvally-Steel. However, you really just don't see that happening anymore as Comfey started running Hidden Power Fire and doing fine against Steelix, and Klinklang kind of lost its relevancy over time. Sure it does have a niche as a bulky Stealth Rock user that can beat Steelix, but I don't really find myself wanting to put Probopass on any of my teams, which is probably the biggest issue Probopass carries. It's a support Pokemon, and if the Pokemon it supports no longer needs its support, then it loses its niche very quickly.

-> A+
A month or so ago, I did ask for a drop for Diancie, but really the reasoning why was kind of horrendous. This Pokemon is fantastic, definitely a top notch Pokemon in the meta right now. A lot of people assume Diancie to be a bulky Stealth Rock user primarily, but it has other great offensive sets as well. Choice Specs makes a great wallbreaker, and 3 attacks + Stealth Rock allows Diancie to punish would-be checks like Steelix and Silvally-Steel with Earth Power or Hidden Power Fire. Not to mention, it is extremely easy to fit this Pokemon on a team, as the Fairy / Rock typing gives key resistances to Fire and Dark-type moves. While that does leave it weak to the more common Water and Steel-type moves, with just a little support, Diancie can easily succeed in match ups against Pokemon with these moves. As I mentioned before, it doesn't really struggle against the Steel-types thanks to Earth Power, but it's really Pokemon like Medicham and Scrafty Diancie has to look out for as they are faster than Diancie. Overall, Diancie is a really amazing Pokemon in the current meta right now, and should definitely rise back up to A+.

Other Nominations I Agree With:
-> S
-> B-
-> B-

-> D
 
No pokemon in the tier can do the same as he does, even if they are of the same type.
Braviary is much slower and better for other types of sets such as the sub + bulk up or the scarfer.
But in no way can he exert the rapid offensive pressure achieved by Dodrio with his Z movement.
Yes, it is not as good in general as Braviary or as fast as Aerodactil but it does not work the same and has its small niche.
And there are several pokemon in which you can easily enter such as Torterra, Palosand (2 immunities), Decidueye, several stall pokemons how Miltan, Audino. Other liabilities such as Silvally and Golbat
It is faster than Heliolisk, Mismagius, Delphox, Cryogonal, Houndoom, Sigilyph, which OHKO usually gives them.
It would be very unfair to be removed from Rank C where it is.

I have my main team where I use Dodrio and they have told me that it is probably the only team that uses it really well xd.
I needed something quick but that destroys if possible, in one hit, so that the rest of the slow sweepers do not need many turns to win. So I chose Dodrio over Sneasel. It is also immune to toxic spikes, very common.



Dodrio > C

Houndoom is similar to Dodrio, it is a good pokemon with 2 good stabs so:

Houndoom > C

With Passimian I have serious doubts. His best set the scarf.
And with that it is not enough to be S rank. It is too predictable and limited, making it easy to stop if you prepare.
In addition all the tier is prepared against him.

Passimian > A+
 
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Katy

You should know I'm never gonna change!
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Passimian to S = huge agree
158843
Passimian is one of the best if not the best scarfer in the tier, having the moveslot to break through alot of mons with Close Combat, Knock off, Gunk Shot, even Iron head, and the prominent U-Turn momentum. It's one of the best revenge killers to the Ice Types currently with it being faster then these, having decent bulk to withstand some Ice Shards and the prominence of Vanilluxe, Mega Abamasnow and Mega Glalie just makes this mon even better. It also offers a decent bulk. It's moveslot might look very small and there is only one good set it can run, but this one thing it does very well in the current metagame. I think a Rise to S is justified more than enough.

Diancie to A+ = also agree
158844
Diancie should go to A+, this thing checks a lot in the metagame and it is able to do so constantly, since it can run Z-Heal bell, which recovers it to full, also it can profit from a Wish support from Vaporeon.
What I also wanna point out is the chance of D-Storm to give it a +2 in its defense, which means it can survive certain hits from other mons.


Houndoom = C
158842
Houndoom in my eyes offers some small niches / role compressions to keep it C for now in the tier. It offers still the mixed set, with pursuit trapping other mons, Scarf Destiny-Bond also is p good, Dark Pulse and Fire Blast are two strong STABs.


Other mons I agree on:
Hariyama = B-
Dodrio = Unrank
Cryogonal = B-
 
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Yoshi

IT'S FINK DUMBASS
With Passimian I have serious doubts. His best set the scarf.
And with that it is not enough to be S rank. It is too predictable and limited, making it easy to stop if you prepare.
In addition all the tier is prepared against him.
Hi, cool post you made here! There are some flaws in your other arguments as well, but I wanted to point out Passimian because I believe it is the most flawed. Versatility isn’t the only factor in deciding the viability of a Pokémon. There are other things to consider, like splashability, effect on building, and effectiveness in battle. Let’s talk about those three things with Passimian.

Passimian is without a doubt the most splashable Pokémon in the tier. Being the only really good Choice Scarfer, it often finds itself making its way on most viable teams. While there are other Choice Scarf users available, what makes Passimian effective is its high Attack, its good Speed, and good enough coverage alongside U-Turn. In battle, it often finds itself being able to pivot around teams effectively if one keeps up offensive pressure. It isn’t often that you find teams super prepared for U-Turn spam.

As you can see, the above paragraph combines all elements of what I was talking about before. While you shouldn’t always put down well known facts in a nomination (like Passimian’s movepool), it would be wise to talk about its effect on the meta in general. Don’t just count versatility and preparation in your arguments, because while you are right about those two things about Passimian, there are other things to consider as well. Thanks for posting!
 
Hi, cool post you made here! There are some flaws in your other arguments as well, but I wanted to point out Passimian because I believe it is the most flawed. Versatility isn’t the only factor in deciding the viability of a Pokémon. There are other things to consider, like splashability, effect on building, and effectiveness in battle. Let’s talk about those three things with Passimian.

Passimian is without a doubt the most splashable Pokémon in the tier. Being the only really good Choice Scarfer, it often finds itself making its way on most viable teams. While there are other Choice Scarf users available, what makes Passimian effective is its high Attack, its good Speed, and good enough coverage alongside U-Turn. In battle, it often finds itself being able to pivot around teams effectively if one keeps up offensive pressure. It isn’t often that you find teams super prepared for U-Turn spam.

As you can see, the above paragraph combines all elements of what I was talking about before. While you shouldn’t always put down well known facts in a nomination (like Passimian’s movepool), it would be wise to talk about its effect on the meta in general. Don’t just count versatility and preparation in your arguments, because while you are right about those two things about Passimian, there are other things to consider as well. Thanks for posting!
You're right in everything you say, no doubt. But the definition of being S rank carries a little more demands, such as different successful sets and at that point Passimian would only have 2 outstanding sets: Scarf and Band.
And the others like bulk up + Z move are not as good and are used as lure.
If we compare it to Incineroar that has many sets and all very good, or even Slowbro has more than 3 viable sets.
Maybe I'm being too strict with the rank S.
A + is still a very good qualification and almost all of them still agree to move to rank S.

Something that I forgot to comment, is that many times when they want to eliminate a pokemon from the ranking, it looks like a witch hunt xd.
Gallade for example, is easily outclased, but is it really bad enough to erase it from the map? You could stay in Rank D, since he still has grass coverage and justified that he could take advantage of the knock-off spam and can resist Comfey if he tries to stop the sweep, something that others would not support.
252+ SpA Life Orb Triage Comfey Draining Kiss Vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gallade: 151-182 (54.5 - 65.7%) - guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Triage Comfey Draining Kiss Vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gallade: 229-273 (82.6 - 98.5%) - guaranteed 2HKO
 

Yoshi

IT'S FINK DUMBASS
You're right in everything you say, no doubt. But the definition of being S rank carries a little more demands, such as different successful sets and at that point Passimian would only have 2 outstanding sets: Scarf and Band.
And the others like bulk up + Z move are not as good and are used as lure.
If we compare it to Incineroar that has many sets and all very good, or even Slowbro has more than 3 viable sets.
Maybe I'm being too strict with the rank S.
A + is still a very good qualification and almost all of them still agree to move to rank S.
As I said before, set versatility is not the only thing that should go into consideration for an S-rank Pokemon. Sure, the three current S-rank Pokemon, Heliolisk, Incineroar, and Slowbro, all do have multiple sets. Passimian does as well, but only one of them is consistent. This is fine, you can't really compare Passimian to the other S-rank Pokemon because it performs a significantly different role than the others do. Considering that Passimian is the only really good Choice Scarf user (to the point where Pokemon like Hariyama are considered unviable because so many people use it as a Choice Scarf user) and not only has a strong effect in battle thanks to U-Turn, but in the builder as well. It's on a good majority of teams, and you need some sort of check for it on every team (which nearly almost always happens to be Slowbro due to splashability + reliability as well, so perhaps that's not a fair point to make). In addition, every Pokemon has their own flaws, even the Pokemon in S-rank. Incineroar is too slow, Heliolisk is too frail, and Slowbro is, well, Slowbro to be blunt. This is the same for Passimian, which carries the burden of lacking versatility. A Pokemon doesn't have to be perfect to be S-rank, it just needs to have an extremely large effect on the metagame both in battle in the builder, with the other attributes (like versatility, splashability, and things like that) as backing points. Overall, try and consider some of the other attributes of S-rank Pokemon rather than just versatility. I am not necessarily saying Passimian should or shouldn't be S-rank with this post, but rather that there are other factors to consider when making nominations.

Edit: And to be fair, Z-U-Turn can be reliable as a lure set.
 
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SPACE FORCE meeps

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seismitoad to c+

maybe harsh but i think seismitoad is kinda garbage. its only redeeming quality is fast z hydro sets which actually give it a chance to set up rocks against xatu. outside of bulky seismitoad being nearly deadweight unless paired with sneasel/other pursuit support, and even then it may struggle to get up rocks. another major downside is the fact that grass-types are so prominent in the tier and a number of them can easily take advantage of seismitoad because seismitoad can't actually do anything to them other than scald burn, which stuff like exeggutor-alola vileplume sceptile and special decidueye don't even care about. its defensive presence is just really overwhelming as a whole, especially considering it losses to the most common water-type in the tier, and is a pretty shaky check to heliolisk considering it'll just get blown away by hyper voice. there are just simply too many common, powerful special attackers in the tier that have little problem taking advantage of seismitoad that i really can't find merit in using seismitoad when there are plenty of other great stealth rock users in the tier

diancies pretty good put it in a+

vileplume to a

vileplume seems pretty nice right now, despite presence of some ice-types, it can check a good number of pokemon in the tier, and is just pretty simple to slot on teams without much drawback. sleep powder and growth sets are both nice, sleep powder seems pretty valuable rn and vileplume usually doesn't have much trouble putting stuff to sleep. growth gives it pretty decent offensive presence and is also good for beating other vileplume! overall vileplume is really solid overall and usually is effective in most battles its used it, even against vanilluxe teams

comfey to a-

vileplume being a hot choice rn hurts comfey a bit i think, especially with growth sets. obviously comfey can be quite effective at dismantling some teams, but with plenty of vileplume and even golbat floating around, comfey can really have difficulties finding opportunities to sweep and is a bit commonly dead weight vs teams with these pokemon. spl usage stats seem to reflect this a bit, comfey has been used 7 times but has only won twice in spl, as i feel teams nowadays don't have problems slotting hard counters/multiple checks to comfey without much drawback
 
seismitoad to c+

maybe harsh but i think seismitoad is kinda garbage. its only redeeming quality is fast z hydro sets which actually give it a chance to set up rocks against xatu. outside of bulky seismitoad being nearly deadweight unless paired with sneasel/other pursuit support, and even then it may struggle to get up rocks. another major downside is the fact that grass-types are so prominent in the tier and a number of them can easily take advantage of seismitoad because seismitoad can't actually do anything to them other than scald burn, which stuff like exeggutor-alola vileplume sceptile and special decidueye don't even care about. its defensive presence is just really overwhelming as a whole, especially considering it losses to the most common water-type in the tier, and is a pretty shaky check to heliolisk considering it'll just get blown away by hyper voice. there are just simply too many common, powerful special attackers in the tier that have little problem taking advantage of seismitoad that i really can't find merit in using seismitoad when there are plenty of other great stealth rock users in the tier

diancies pretty good put it in a+

vileplume to a

vileplume seems pretty nice right now, despite presence of some ice-types, it can check a good number of pokemon in the tier, and is just pretty simple to slot on teams without much drawback. sleep powder and growth sets are both nice, sleep powder seems pretty valuable rn and vileplume usually doesn't have much trouble putting stuff to sleep. growth gives it pretty decent offensive presence and is also good for beating other vileplume! overall vileplume is really solid overall and usually is effective in most battles its used it, even against vanilluxe teams

comfey to a-

vileplume being a hot choice rn hurts comfey a bit i think, especially with growth sets. obviously comfey can be quite effective at dismantling some teams, but with plenty of vileplume and even golbat floating around, comfey can really have difficulties finding opportunities to sweep and is a bit commonly dead weight vs teams with these pokemon. spl usage stats seem to reflect this a bit, comfey has been used 7 times but has only won twice in spl, as i feel teams nowadays don't have problems slotting hard counters/multiple checks to comfey without much drawback

I'm mainly here to comment about your Seismitoad nomination. So about your seismitoad nomination, it's a bit too harsh like you said. C+ rank is not fitting for this pokemon because it still has a decent niche in the metagame. That niche is beating Slowbro with SubTox, the rare Water/Ground typing that still holds some value in a tier full of grass. I do agree with a drop though, B+/B because of Comfey, Vileplume, and other Grass mons dominate the metagame.
 

birdkeeperdrew

Banned deucer.
Okay, my opinion on some nominations.

Vileplume to A: absolutely. This thing utterly manhandles Passimian and Heliolisk, two of the most common offensive Pokemon teams face, and Effect Spore really dissuades Pass from doing, like, anything to it. Sure Heliolisk can do at max 50% to it with specs hyper voice, but if its literally any other move or any other set, Vileplume wins. That's assuming specially defensive, which is the set that usually works the best.

Dodrio to unranked: yeah, this thing is a poor man's Braviary. Not quite sure what it's doing here to begin with.
 
Piloswine> C
With Vanilluxe gone, there isn't really anything that Piloswine will be walling anymore. And with Mega-Glalie around it can't really claim to be the best setter to use if you want something difficult to switch into without Slowbro, as Mega-Glalie outclasses it in both speed and power(disregard that Piloswine has ground stab). I'd keep it at C though, because it has a great matchup vs Mega-Glalie, and no other setter really does(Lix wins, but takes a lot of damage doing so, because MG is heavy and HS doesn't even 2hko 95% of time).
 
Aggron to B-

Since Vanilluxe got banned bulky Pokémon like Vileplume and Golbat have gotten a lot better, and there’s no better breaker than Aggron for these bulky poisons. Unlike other breakers, Aggron doesn’t have to worry about getting worn down by Sludge Bomb or Toxic. Choice Band Aggron has unrivaled rock stab in Head Smash capable of OHKO’ing AV Slowbro after rocks. Steelix may be the best switch in to Head Smash, but it is easily switched into by the ever so trendy Xatu and Blastoise. While Aggron is a good wallbreaker, it’s kinda weird to build around and is not too splashable which is why I think it should be in B-.

252+ Atk Choice Band Aggron Head Smash vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Slowbro: 331-390 (86.1 - 101.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
 

Punchshroom

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Aggron is a pretty cool suggestion; being able to exploit mons like the bulky Poisons (switching directly into Plume is still risky since Giga Drain 2HKOes after Rocks >.<), Xatu, non-Earth Power Diancie, non-coverage Garbodor, etc. is pretty nice. What I also like about it is its ability to make use of Magnet Rise, which turns would-be counters like Steelix and Rhydon into yet more fodder for Aggron to take advantage of.


Aggron @ Stone Plate / Rockium Z
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 40 SpD / 216 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Head Smash
- Low Kick
- Magnet Rise
- Substitute

With Substitute, Aggron can abuse even more Pokemon, such as Druddigon and Weezing, as well as punishing its Ground-type answers even harder. Stone Plate lets Aggron 2HKO phys def Slowbro with Head Smash, though Continental Crush is a viable option for accurate burst Rock damage that can still OHKO Vileplume as well as not making contact in general.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

B- to C (or maybe even flat out UR)

Can we talk about Absol? I have two big gripes with this mon. The first is that since setting up safely with it is damn near impossible, it has to pretty much rely solely on immediate unboosted damage, and it's not quite strong enough to OHKO nearly any of the bulky/slower Pokemon it comes across (or at least, unreliably in the case of trying to land Iron Tail vs Diancie or w/e), meaning it often ends up taking major damage or just getting KOed outright as a result of simply trying to do its job. If I wanted a powerful Dark-type wallbreaker, I would largely favor Incineroar, which has infinitely better boosting opportunities, make much better use of Z-Moves for wallbreaking, can provide defensive utility, and has the bulk to actually take hits without invariably losing at least 50% of its health :/ On the other hand, against faster Pokemon, its Sucker Punch doesn't threaten as many fast Pokemon as it would like, and the targets that do fear Absol's Sucker Punch are better handled by Sneasel, which either naturally outspeeds them or threatens a super effective Ice Shard. This by extension makes Sneasel a more effective Pursuit user as well, due to its wider range of targets and better matchup against offense.

The more I assess this Pokemon's place in the meta, the more I believe that it's either outperformed by Sneasel and Incineroar for the most part, or it's not even that effective to begin with. Shit, I'd give even Houndoom more merit than Absol in this meta, since at least Doom has a better Speed tier, a typing that lets it better OHKO stuff and set up, and its dual STAB is resisted only by mons with limited longevity and can be pressured by both teammates and even itself (early-/mid-game Super Fang is underrated, dawg).

C to UR

Once again, faces a similar issue to Absol in that it can barely set up worth a damn to really solidify that niche, except its main competition Braviary has been using offensive Bulk Up to good success, so the setup niche is kinda down the hole for Dodrio at this point. It does still have its Speed tier to make decent use of a Choice Band set which makes use of moves like Knock Off, Quick Attack, or Pursuit, but Scarf Braviary is still far more preferable as a Choice-locked Flying-type since it can do things to outrun Sceptile, tie with Scarf Passim, and ofc most importantly U-turn. The niche of "being fast & corebreak with boosted dual STABs + coverage accompanied by Z-Move, even though it can't really set up to begin with" is not even unique to Dodrio (
) even without the issue of being eclipsed by Braviary, so I don't see why Dodrio gets a pass.

C to D

No defensive utility thanks to practically no resists, being piss weak pre-boosts gives it no early-to-mid game presence, and requires outright removal of certain threats (namely Scarf U-turners & Comfey) instead of just weakening them. All of these traits greatly overshadow Malamar's unique claim of being an "omnibooster that can boost further", which is frankly unnecessary; I'd rather use Hold Hands Charizard with its untouchable Speed tier or Celebrate Vaporeon who refuses to die, both of which also clean earlier due to their power. RestTalk variants aren't in a much better spot either; Scrafty is usually the superior bulky booster due to its better bulk and resists, and Malamar's minisculely favorable advantages over Scrafty are only fading further with the rise of things like Growth Vileplume and Vikavolt that no longer have to fear Vanilluxe's nukes.
 
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Yoshi

IT'S FINK DUMBASS

This might be an interesting nomination for some if you haven't really followed the recent meta trends. While Weezing was introduced in the Sand period of NU, it stuck around afterwards. It did have a brief limbo period up until this SPL, but since this SPL, it has proven to be an incredible Toxic Spikes user. In fact, a better Toxic Spikes user than Garbodor. While Garbodor offers some offensive presence, that isn't valued in a Toxic Spike user as much as a defensive presence is. While Garbodor does have a defensive niche with Aftermath, it doesn't offer the defensive utility Weezing does. Weezing is not only bulkier than Garbodor, it also has Wisp and Pain Split over Garbodor, allowing it to permanently null physical attacks (unlike Garbodor) and increase longevity respectively. Weezing also loses the Ground weakness thanks to Levitate, which is a huge plus over Garbodor, drastically making the match up versus Stealth Rock users like Steelix and Rhydon better (although Weezing shouldn't try to 1v1 those anyway).

Because of those things, I believe that some change should be reflected in the VR. First, Weezing should move up to A-. In terms of Garbodor, as it itself is A-, should move down to B+. I still think that Garbodor itself holds its own as a more offensive Toxic Spikes user, but again, the reason Weezing is better is because more teams prefer a more defensive presence than an offensive one. If you want to see more of Weezing in action, there are a bunch of SPL games that display it. More recently, in fact just a few hours ago, was Eternally vs Lax. This game is a great display of how Weezing can be used to support teammates (this is more so an argument of Weezing increasing in viability by itself rather than Weezing vs. Garbodor). Paired with a nutty Delphox set (CM / Substitute / Protect / Flamethrower), Weezing is shown to provide a lot of support with Toxic Spikes, a great tool in this meta. There are plenty of other examples like this from this SPL, so you just have to find the replays.

-> C
While now unranked on the new VR, Kabutops hadn't really proven itself to have a strong niche until recently. While Hyper Offense teams aren't exactly the greatest, they have been better than they have been in the past, especially with the recent Vanilluxe ban. Kabutops acts as Stealth Rock setter and Rapid Spin user, condensed into one slot. This not only frees up a lot on the team, but also gives you the opportunity to keep up your own hazards as well. Kabutops even has its own offensive presence, having the option to run Rockium or Waterium Z (it generally runs Focus Sash). Weak Armor basically guarantees your lead match up, allowing Kabutops to keep up Stealth Rock and to keep hazards away from your own team as well. Overall, Kabutops is simply a great Pokemon for HO teams currently, and while it hasn't gotten any tournament use (to my knowledge), it still holds a really good niche in ladder play.

-> B-
With Vanilluxe gone, I don't really see the defensive utility this offers anymore. While it still does check Comfey in theory, there are other much more useful Pokemon like Vileplume that can do it, albeit not as effectively. It still holds its own niche as being a Defog user on the bulkier side, but I'd much rather consider other hazard remover users before Silvally-Steel. I suppose it condenses the role of pivot + hazard removal as well, but Pokemon like Rotom do that just as effectively if not more so. On paper, Silvally-Steel should be great, but most times in games I feel like it is a momentum loss as well. Really, the only useful thing Silvally-Steel does right now is beat Diancie, and that isn't a strong enough niche to keep it at B. Overall, I think Silvally-Steel has fallen off its throne a bit, and should drop down to B-.
 
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Rabia

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This might be an interesting nomination for some if you haven't really followed the recent meta trends. While Weezing was introduced in the Sand period of NU, it stuck around afterwards. It did have a brief limbo period up until this SPL, but since this SPL, it has proven to be an incredible Toxic Spikes user. In fact, a better Toxic Spikes user than Garbodor. While Garbodor offers some offensive presence, that isn't valued in a Toxic Spike user as much as a defensive presence is. While Garbodor does have a defensive niche with Aftermath, it doesn't offer the defensive utility Weezing does. Weezing is not only bulkier than Garbodor, it also has Wisp and Pain Split over Garbodor, allowing it to permanently null physical attacks (unlike Garbodor) and increase longevity respectively. Weezing also loses the Ground weakness thanks to Levitate, which is a huge plus over Garbodor, drastically making the match up versus Stealth Rock users like Steelix and Rhydon better (although Weezing shouldn't try to 1v1 those anyway).

Because of those things, I believe that some change should be reflected in the VR. First, Weezing should move up to A-. In terms of Garbodor, as it itself is A-, should move down to B+. I still think that Garbodor itself holds its own as a more offensive Toxic Spikes user, but again, the reason Weezing is better is because more teams prefer a more defensive presence than an offensive one. If you want to see more of Weezing in action, there are a bunch of SPL games that display it. More recently, in fact just a few hours ago, was Eternally vs Lax. This game is a great display of how Weezing can be used to support teammates (this is more so an argument of Weezing increasing in viability by itself rather than Weezing vs. Garbodor). Paired with a nutty Delphox set (CM / Substitute / Protect / Flamethrower), Weezing is shown to provide a lot of support with Toxic Spikes, a great tool in this meta. There are plenty of other examples like this from this SPL, so you just have to find the replays.

-> C
While now unranked on the new VR, Kabutops hadn't really proven itself to have a strong niche until recently. While Hyper Offense teams aren't exactly the greatest, they have been better than they have been in the past, especially with the recent Vanilluxe ban. Kabutops acts as Stealth Rock setter and Rapid Spin user, condensed into one slot. This not only frees up a lot on the team, but also gives you the opportunity to keep up your own hazards as well. Kabutops even has its own offensive presence, having the option to run Rockium or Waterium Z (it generally runs Focus Sash). Weak Armor basically guarantees your lead match up, allowing Kabutops to keep up Stealth Rock and to keep hazards away from your own team as well. Overall, Kabutops is simply a great Pokemon for HO teams currently, and while it hasn't gotten any tournament use (to my knowledge), it still holds a really good niche in ladder play.

-> B-
With Vanilluxe gone, I don't really see the defensive utility this offers anymore. While it still does check Comfey in theory, there are other much more useful Pokemon like Vileplume that can do it, albeit not as effectively. It still holds its own niche as being a Defog user on the bulkier side, but I'd much rather consider other hazard remover users before Silvally-Steel. I suppose it condenses the role of pivot + hazard removal as well, but Pokemon like Rotom do that just as effectively if not more so. On paper, Silvally-Steel should be great, but most times in games I feel like it is a momentum loss as well. Really, the only useful thing Silvally-Steel does right now is beat Diancie, and that isn't a strong enough niche to keep it at B. Overall, I think Silvally-Steel has fallen off its thrown a bit, and should drop down to B-.
Not home rn but you’re misrepresenting Garbodor’s current niche in the meta; it’s so valuable because it Spikes against Xatu thanks to Gunk Shot 2HKOing. Weezing has offensive sets too, but they come with much higher opportunity cost. Honestly I don’t really understand your post because you make the bold claim of most teams wanting a defensive presence rather than an offensive one, but that’s not true? It’s all team dependent. Offensive Garbodor is great support for something like Steelix, which struggles with Xatu some.

Overall your post doesn’t tell me that Garbodor has gotten worse really. It just tells me Weezing has gotten better.
 

Yoshi

IT'S FINK DUMBASS
Not home rn but you’re misrepresenting Garbodor’s current niche in the meta; it’s so valuable because it Spikes against Xatu thanks to Gunk Shot 2HKOing. Weezing has offensive sets too, but they come with much higher opportunity cost. Honestly I don’t really understand your post because you make the bold claim of most teams wanting a defensive presence rather than an offensive one, but that’s not true? It’s all team dependent. Offensive Garbodor is great support for something like Steelix, which struggles with Xatu some.

Overall your post doesn’t tell me that Garbodor has gotten worse really. It just tells me Weezing has gotten better.
I think your post definitely does add something to my argument but I don't think it invalidates anything. Yes it is team dependent 100%, but you most often see Toxic Spikes on bulkier teams as of late. I am not saying that Garbodor is bad by any means, in fact my proposal puts it at B+. I just think Weezing holds a stronger niche than Garbodor because most people have been running Toxic Spikes on more bulky builds this SPL, which is why you see more Weezing than Garbodor.

edit: I do see what you're saying about me saying Garbodor has gotten worse, though, but hopefully this post elaborates on it more.
 
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I think your post definitely does add something to my argument but I don't think it invalidates anything. Yes it is team dependent 100%, but you most often see Toxic Spikes on bulkier teams as of late. I am not saying that Garbodor is bad by any means, in fact my proposal puts it at B+. I just think Weezing holds a stronger niche than Garbodor because most people have been running Toxic Spikes on more bulky builds this SPL, which is why you see more Weezing than Garbodor.
If anything, Weezing was run because it offers a ground immunity, which means a) it doesnt need to run away from ground sr setters asap and b) passimian cant lure it with commonly run coverage. These 2 traits make it more favourable for some bulkier teams. However, it does not change the fact even defensive garbodor can pressure xatu with gunk + poison, or not run tspikes at all and use some other move - pain split or aguav berry + recycle to improve its longevity, for example.

Outside of that, the biggest thing that doesnt really fit here is this: youre equating tspikes viability with the viability of these pokemon. Tspikes is obviously a very potent move on its own and weezing is, in most cases, more reliable at setting them up than garbodor (esp offensive garb). All that means is that weezing may have been overlooked for a while now, but in no way does it diminish garbs viability - although theyre both bulky poisons, garb has other uses other than setting up tspikes. I could write more to emphasize garbs other traits like the speed advantage it has over weez and access to spikes, but I think I lve gotten across what I wanna say already and Rabia somewhat covered the comparison between their offensive sets already.

To conclude, I dont think garb and weez should be compared only on the basis of them being poisons that set up tspikes. Having said that, I agree that weezing should go up given the results it produced in spl, but rise in its viability, in my opinion, shouldnt affect garb.
 

Vileplume A- to A

I'll be honest and say that I don't really keep up with this side of the forums at all, so shoutout to -Davon for letting me know that Vileplume was A- which led to my posting here. All of the points that meeps made in his Nom to A post are spot-on, but it was surprising seeing this thing being ranked (in my opinion) fairly low for all that it can provide in one slot. Sleep (or Growth, either of which turns a wall into a far greater presence), very passable bulk, Fairy-type check, Grass-type check, Fighting-type check (not named Medicham or Gallade), and in general can be a real annoyance to on-trend cores that are ill-prepared. On a minor note just taking a look at its company in A- you can tell something feels out of place there, as I feel it consistently outperforms the other A- 'mons.


Audino-Mega B+ to B

I haven't been a fan of Audino-M since I started playing this tier, and have always had a difficult time fitting it on anything but stall. In most cases, this 'mons passivity is a huge turnoff when it comes down to building and playing as a whole, but functionally nothing has changed since it functions as a Special Defense wall and will (more than likely) always function like such. Looking at its company in B+, I'd personally classify B+ as not overly difficult to fit on teams and able to put in work given the proper support, whereas B 'mons like Viv and Pyuk require a certain amount of support or archetype to effectively make their mark on an MU (which sounds about right for Audino-M to me).​
 

Abejas

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Alolan Sandslash C+ --> Shadow realm

After the vanilluxe ban, is there even a reason to use this mon? Its a rocker that cant break Xatu, gets 2hkod by most spinners and defoggers such as Dhelmise and Decidueye, its a steel type that gets tossed by Comfey and most Normal types, it gives Incineroar and Passimian free switch ins which is something you never want to do, its a spinner that cant beat any rocker. This mon is simply not good and there is no reason to ever use it.



Golbat B ----> B+/A-

With vanilluxe going this mon just became so much harder to deal with. Due to its great bulk and having the opportunity of running eviolite, this mon is so hard to pressure or punish. It can check a great portion of the metagame, pokemon such as Sceptile, Comfey, Vileplume, Passimian, even non Psychic Slowbro and Alolan-Exeggutor have a hard time breaking it. With the diversity of its moves it can: prevent hazards and support moves such as wish or heal bell with Taunt, put pokemon on a timer with Toxic or Poison Fang (which lets it break Xatu), get rid of hazards with Defog, and have a reliable form of recovery with Roost. While most rockers can be a nuisance, it can still get pass them: Rhydon and Piloswine can be but on a timer with toxic, it can beat diancie 1v1 with toxic+roost, Steelix can be taunted. This pokemon can also be used as a check to medicham and SD decidueye if you want to run a lot of speed. All in all, it is a great pokemon and should be ranked higher

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Agreeing with

161887
A- ---> A even A+ lowkey make it S+
161886
B ---> B+/A-
161888
B- ---> Lower even gone
161889
C ---> D
 
161884
B- --> B+ (maybe even A- but maybe too soon for that)
Can we talk about our favorite Pikachu copy? Everyone was suprised when this mon went from PU to NU, the mouse showed us why. In SPL Togedemaru has been a viable Scarfer in the tier with it's decent attack better speed than the best scarfer in NU right now (Passimian) and lesser used Scarf Rotom, good typing and moves to go along with it, U-turn, huge viarity in its last move. Togedemaru deserves a higher spot then it has right now for sure.
Druddigon  sprite from Black & White
A --> A+
Most reliable rocker in the tier for sure, when you face a druddigon you know you play 95% of the time with rocks on your side of the field. Regardless what that your hazard removal is, do you have Xatu free rocks, do you have defog rotom Druddigon just Earthquake it. Druddigon also has the typing as a defensive wall, Dragon resist a huge number of things in the tier what makes Druddigon a pretty good asset to most teams that needs rocks on the field.
Sceptile  sprite from Black & White
A+ --> A/A-
Sceptile is suffering from how the meta is developing lately, the rising populairity of Scarf togedemaru, SpD Vileplume, Spd Druddigon and Golbat all annoy Sceptile hugely. Nothing much to say about this than I did, the metagame isnt helping that's it.
Steelix  sprite from Black & White
A+ --> A
Same thing with Sceptile Steelix does not like the new meta changes, SpD Vileplume annoys it greatly, rising populairity of Blastoise lately doesn't help, offensive Diancie is getting better and better and Xatu still annoys it greatly. It's still good don't get me wrong but not like it was before.
161885
A --> A+
Say hi to the new Ice-type that might dominate the tier (not as big as Vani of course), if we talk about a mon that benefits from how the meta is developing M-Glalie is certainly a good candidate. With golbat, vileplume, less pinch berry Incineroars and Druddigon. M-Glalie favours being in on most of these mons, also many people don't know this (including me until the lovely Rodriblutar told me this) M-Glalie can run Iron Head to get past mons like Diancie and Cryogonal who otherwise are a decent check to it. This mon certainly deserves a 1 UP. (sorry have been playing too much Mario lately)

----------------------Agreeing with------------------------
161890
A --> A+
161891
B --> A-/A
161892
A- --> A/A+
161893
A --> A-
 

Yoshi

IT'S FINK DUMBASS
-> A+
Okay now here is a super controversial nomination that I want to hear more about, since I know a lot of people are having reluctant feelings about the current ranking of Heliolisk. In the past few months, the meta has shifted quite a bit away from the favor of Heliolisk, especially recently. It rose originally due to its offensive and breaking prowess, but there have been several trends since then that have come to light, partly because of Heliolisk's presence. One of the more notable examples is the rise of Vileplume, which is, to be honest, an S-worthy Pokemon in itself (which I do note in this post). Eats any coverage move Heliolisk has to throw out. Less notably would be the rise of Togedemaru, perhaps a seemingly unlikely candidate to be run in this meta, but it has shown great potential. It also checks Heliolisk, absorbing any Electric-type attack, although it does need to watch out for Focus Blast. Other Pokemon like Dhelmise, Alolan Exeggutor, and Rotom having increased usage doesn't help either. While it can easily run Hidden Power Ice to check most of those Pokemon, it will certainly leave you vulnerable to several other Heliolisk checks in the tier. This brings up one of the main flaws that Heliolisk has been known to have since it dropped, which is choosing the right coverage. Originally, I disagreed that it had the issue of picking coverage, considering a lot of coverage was mainly team dependent, but the meta has shifted in such a way as to where this won't always be the case depending on the build. Speaking of builds, there are certainly still a lot of ways to fit Heliolisk onto teams, especially the more offensive ones, but I think that it has gotten harder to find uses for Heliolisk in the builder. This is more than likely because of the rise of the aforementioned checks, mainly Vileplume, as well as the meta shifting towards more of a bulky fashion once again. It is also reflected in SPL, where Heliolisk usage has been shown to decline, although it is still on the higher side of usage. In fact, it has been used I still think that Heliolisk is a good breaker in this meta, but I don't think it is S-worthy anymore.

As a side note, I think many people will believe that I am overrating the struggle Heliolisk faces when trying to break through teams, and I don't mean to do that, because Heliolisk is still a fantastic breaker, especially when things like hazard and Toxic residual can easily break down Pokemon like Plume enough for Hyper Voice to 2HKO. In fact, if you can keep Heliolisk healthy enough to stick around for the late game, it will probably break through a lot of teams very easily. This of course raises questions about being locked into Hyper Voice, not doing enough power without Choice Specs, things like that, and it isn't always easy to keep Heliolisk alive for the majority of the match, especially when Spikes and Toxic Spikes are becoming ever so common. Another thing to note is that the rise of Protect spam makes it difficult for Heliolisk to break through teams as well, especially when it is locked in due to Choice Specs (or Choice Scarf, although that doesn't really break teams). Also, if you look at what Heliolisk was months ago, and what it is now, it has definitely adapted to Heliolisk both defensively and offensively enough to give the thought that perhaps it has been getting worse in viability.

-> A+ / S
This is a nomination that I think a lot of people can get behind, and has been outlined quite a few times in this thread already. However, I am going to be the first to unironically say that Vileplume could probably rise to S-rank. If you aren't super into NU, this change may seem completely out of the blue for some, but with Vanilluxe's recent departure, it makes perfect sense. Not only is it a good check to the omnipresent Xatu, the supposed Strength Sap switch in, it really just checks nearly everything else as well, including other common Pokemon like Diancie and Heliolisk. It can struggle with Pokemon like Incineroar and Mega Glalie of course, but this is just as Pokemon like Slowbro can struggle with Heliolisk and Dhelmise. While it is fairly one dimensional in the set that it can run, this is hardly a negative factor. The natural bulk and recovery that Vileplume offers makes it nearly a requirement for defensive builds, which can be overlooked by some builders. Perhaps that is in fact Vileplume's biggest negative, though, that it cannot fit on many types of builds like the other two S-rank Pokemon, Slowbro and Incineroar. However, its defensive attributes heavily outshine that issue, especially when bulkier teams run the meta. Overall, I think Vileplume was already a great Pokemon, but with the recent Vanilluxe ban, it could definitely rise up to A+ (I even lean towards S-rank).

-> A+
Although I am definitely Mega Glalie's biggest fan, it is definitely not S material. Instead, it is more fitting for the next best thing, A+. I think Jarii excellently outlined what makes Mega Glalie so great in a concise way, although I am not too sure that any Mega Glalie would run Iron Head to beat Diancie (I have seen this but I don't think it is worth it, considering Earthquake / Double-Edge / Explosion are sort of irreplaceable, even on non-offensive builds). Thanks to Mega Abomasnow being bad and Mega Audino fitting on very specific builds, Mega Glalie doesn't face much competition for the mega slot. It is also just an excellent breaker in general, especially with the rise of Vileplume, Druddigon, and Dhelmise. It certainly doesn't help that other Pokemon like Diancie and Togedemaru are becoming more common, but this can hardly be an issue for Mega Glalie, especially since they only act as checks rather than counters due to Earthquake (and I guess Iron Head, lol). I've been building quite a bit with Mega Glalie recently, and not because that is the idea I have in mind while building. Oftentimes I find that Mega Glalie is super easy to fit onto teams, especially since it is a breaker that combines Spikes in its arsenal as well, perhaps the biggest reason Mega Glalie is so great. Overall, Mega Glalie is definitely a mainstay in this meta, so a rise to A+ would reflect that nicely.
 

ILoveMilk

Banned deucer.
Vileplume -> A+
Really strong mon in the meta rn. Very few mons enjoy coming in on sludge bomb, growth sets is the most annoying thing to face right now, and sleep powder sets find ample opportunity to cripple a mon.

Comfey -> A-
Rise in poison types and togedemaru is really unfavorable to it and can't really sweep as easily as before but still a threat you need to account for.

Golbat -> B+
5th most used mon in spl, does a good job checking annoying mons like Vileplume and other poisons that are rising in usage while poison fang sets let it get past Xatu.
 
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Rabia

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gonna drop some thoughts on current noms

Vileplume should rise to the top of A+. This is a huge jump, but I feel it's warranted for just how useful this Pokemon is in the current metagame. It checks several of the most prominent wallbreakers in the tier such as Heliolisk and Sceptile, is a great way to prevent Comfey from running over your team, and retains the physical bulk to stop Passimian and switch into Ground-types like Rhydon and Steelix without being punished super heavily. While in theory the Vanilluxe ban should have led to more Magmortar and eeeeven more Mega Glalie usage, which would hinder Vileplume, I haven't found that to be the case. I definitely view Vileplume as comparable to what is currently A+, and I feel it is better than everything there just from a defensive utility standpoint (except for Passimian of course, which I have vouched to be moved to S).

I personally feel Mega Audino is fine in B+, but maybe a move to high B would be warranted. While Mega Audino is generally stuck on stall, I wouldn't say stall is a particularly weak playstyle, and it's the most integral part of the archetype. Hell, you can even see Mega Audino balance, which does go to show it appears elsewhere. I really don't feel like much has changed for the Pokemon recently outside of maybe the argument that Vanilluxe's ban somewhat harms its viability? Although I don't really feel that holds much truth considering Vanilluxe ate Audino as was lol. I can understand the nomination, though I still think Mega Audino is a B+ Pokemon simply for it defining stall.

Aggron has been fun as fuck to use, and I could definitely see it somewhere in C+. It takes advantage of a lot of Pokemon (Steelix, Rhydon, Diancie to name a few) that generally only have a single way to meaningfully threaten it. My personal favorite set is SubPunch with Magnet Rise and Head Smash; this lets it best take advantage of the switches it forces imo.

Alolan Sandslash was arguably not worthy of a rank pre-Vanilluxe ban, and it just lost one of the biggest reasons to be used, although it does still have a lot of value in checking stuff like Mega Glalie (Earthquake does ~50), Whimsicott, and Vileplume. Not opposed to an unrank, but it definitely needs to at least drop to somewhere in C.

Golbat is amazing and should've been moved to at least B+ last slate. While I think it can be argued Golbat isn't necessary better than the low B+ Pokemon, I find it hard to argue that it isn't incredibly far ahead the other Pokemon in B (except Weezing, which I also think should be risen as stated prior).

Togedemaru is pretty solid. Like Jarii said, its Speed tier is great in letting it outpace the fabeled Passimian tier, and its defensive traits are really nice too in letting it soft check stuff like Comfey, Sceptile, and Heliolisk. That said, it does still struggle with being really weak and being forced to U-turn every turn versus Steelix teams (unless you run the GOAT Super Fang). Top of B is probably a safe spot for now, but I could see it moving further up in the future if it keeps its current trend going.

Glare is broken; ergo, Druddigon is broken. It also checks a slew of the most threatening and common wallbreakers in the tier, especially post-Vanilluxe ban. I would argue its a bit behind Steelix still just from a defensive utility standpoint, but honestly they're really on par in terms of viability from my experience.

Just to reiterate an earlier point: swap Diancie's and Steelix's ranks; Diancie has easily emerged as the better option entirely because of its offensive presence and its ability to more effectively threaten common forms of removal (also doesn't let them in for free). Maybe offensive Steelix is the way to go now? Not sure if it's worth it yet.

I thought Sceptile was extremely overrated when it rose, so I'm definitely for it moving back down to A-. Meta trends are unfavorable for it, and I feel it's outclassed by wallbreakers that can better circumvent their checks ie Magmortar and Heliolisk.

Yeah Mega Glalie can go to A+; the loss of Vanilluxe is a big boon in the sense it no longer competes for a slot as an Ice-type wallbreaker, and it generally fulfills the same roles Vanilluxe does. This also has to do with it just looking generally underrated compared to what's around it on the VR.

I am against a Heliolisk drop. I think most of the current issues that it's being listed with having aren't anything new, and Heliolisk has shown itself more than capable of thriving even with these drawbacks. The problem with playing against Heliolisk is that it just Volt Switches out versus most of its checks and forces you to lose momentum constantly. You can argue Rotom does something similar, but Heliolisk is significantly stronger and can mindgame with its coverage too. I can totally see where this thought process comes from, but I don't think we've reached the point yet where Heliolisk is thaaaat far off from the other S-rank Pokemon.

Xatu can probably drop some, probably just to lower A+. The rise of Stealth Rock setters that beat it hurts it a pretty fair amount and negates the biggest reason to use it to some degree. It's still fantastic, but I don't think it defines entry hazard control right now.

Silvally-Steel can definitely drop into B- at least; it lost the biggest reason to be used and doesn't have a whole lot going for it. I'm being cautious for now with this nomination, but I could see this Pokemon falling off the map later if things don't get better for it quickly.

e: didn't realize someone made a Comfey nomination lol. anyhow I'm against it dropping into A- solely because most of the problems it's being listed as having aren't actually anything new outside of the uptick in Weezing usage, which is being coupled with a decrease in Silvally-Steel viability. I can see it dropping within A some, but I wouldn't demote it to the next rank.
 
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Finchinator

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Tort to B-

Nobody uses him anymore outside of Meeps trying to cheese people with scarf. Other SRers are just straight up better in almost every case right now and I feel like the metagame has moved past it. There’s still a niche, clearly, but I believe it’s far less viable than things like Golbat and Accelgor (although perhaps you can argue both for B+).

Blastoise to B

Idc if it’s one of a few viable removers, Blastoise is such a bad pokemon currently. It has minimal utility and annoying, status inflicting abilities. Beyond that, it’s just pretty much a spinner. You’d rather use so many things than it in that slot and building with other means of removal feels so much better almost always. It is not able to truly counter anything in the long term given its lack of longevity, too, which is ultimately the nail in the coffin. I’ll tell Eternally every week he’s garbage and will continue to do so.
 
i really disagree with the blastoise drop nomination. if anything, i personally think blastoise should rise.

i think good rapid spinners are invaluable, and blastoise is clearly one of those. i really like weezing + blastoise as a defensive backbone for pressuring things without being totally passive like defensive slowbro or vaporeon. spin + tspikes is really amazing, especially given certain weezing sets can pressure most forms of tspike removal. this isn't about weezing though; it's about blastoise, and blastoise simply being a reliable but not passive as fuck spinner that you can comfortably pair with weezing is hella nice. it's not the best spinner in the tier (dhelmise), but a good fat water that spins? heck yes.

blastoise enables a lot of interesting bulky offenses thanks to not being a passive piece of shit with extremely useful fatmon traits (spin and being a fat water, as highlighted above). z refresh is also a really good option for ensuring you have some longevity without letting your opponent just come in for free every time you wanna heal up. instead of trying to use blastoise as a total wall to counter various things, you need to use it on certain frameworks that better suit what it does. while these frameworks make it a more specific addition than slowbro, vaporeon, etc., i think they're really good right now, basically balancing that out.

some other thoughts:

i think glalie should rise. yeah, the 2 best pokemon in the tier can handle it defensively, but it can be kinda bleak if you aren't using those. even if you ARE using those, its ability to pressure af with spikes and earthquake is a pain. not to mention boom... honestly think this mon is almost as good as vani... just easier to beat with fat waters.

i agree with the proposed vileplume rise, though DEFINITELY not up to S. i think A is fine, though i can also see A+. this is easily the second most annoying mon in the tier lmao. it has so much variety and it just comfortably walls soooooo much stuff. it makes building a lot easier, especially since it's both not passive as fuck AND it has really great recovery and utility (sleep powder and effect spore). really just a no brainer right now imo.

i could see diancie going to A+. really versatile mon that's just more on par with pokemon in A+ than A imo... not much else to say there tho.

i really really really think xatu should rise to S. magic bounce on good fat pokemon is just such a fundamentally broken and bullshit mechanic and wow xatu abuses it af. it really warps building (see: these crazyass weezing sets), and it REALLY rewards intelligent play, moreso than anything in the tier for sure (hard reads to block hazards). i think this and slowbro warp building and just the overall meta on levels far beyond any other pokemon.

also really agree with a weezing rise (probably to A or A-, idk) based on the reasoning sprinkled throughout this post.

since steelvally is off the blacklist, i really think this mon should drop. you really really really need wish support with it, making it some extremely passive, easy to wear down and exploit bs lmfao. wish from another mon as a mons main form of longevity is just so clunky and inconsistent, even in the right hands. aggressive playing just shuts this stuff down af imo. like finch's post was about blastoise not really countering anything, have any of you seen steelvally? the mon switches into stuff like twice and then you gotta start healing it back up with vaporeon or audino or whatever. god it's really horrible. not to mention the fact that it's really passive. defog + parting shot is rly nice, but not nice enough to justify B ranking imo. drop this thing down to like C+.
 

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