Resource USUM OU ULTRA Viability Ranking Thread

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Hippowdon to B-

srsly this being C+ next to Mimikyu, MMane and other mons who only have a small niche is a joke. Hippo checks top tier threats like Koko, Zygarde, Magearna, Hawlucha, MScizor, Ttar, Mega Lopunny, Mega Pinsir and Scarf Magnezone and is one of the best Mega Mawile stops. Sand is annoying for many teams to deal with, wearing down things with no recovery like AshGren and it can help with rain. Also hippo can easily set up rocks in most games quiet reliably.
It's obvious that it is a very passive mon but Hippo just being around in the back can be very annoying for the opponent when you patch it's weaknesses.

I also have a pretty nice replay of hippo doing work in a tournament game. After I wore down Lando and KyuB it pretty much won me the game alone.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-726081977
I second this nomination, although I'm not sure if it's the best Mega Mawile stop around, given that +2 Play Rough has a very high chance to kill after rocks:

+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 388-457 (92.3 - 108.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Another good thing going for Hippowdon is that it's one of the more consistent switchins to Mega Charizard X other than defensive Lando-T thanks to reliably recovery and the fact that Flare Blitz will dish out a ton of recoil damage thanks to Hippowdon's large HP stat. Mons like Bulu, Zapdos, Kartana, and Koko really do appreciate having a teammate that accomplishes this.
 
I was first iffy to nominate this as it might seem controversial and out of no where, but I think now is a good time to nominate

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Gastrodon B -> B+

I think Gastrodon is a great pokemon in the meta right now. The fact that all four SPL finalists had it on their team is a perfect example of that, in my opinion. Its ability to completely shut down electric types such as Tapu Koko, Zapdos, and Magnezone, while also shutting down (or at least checking) powerful water types such as Greninja (all forms and sets besides the rare grass knot), Kingdra, and Keldeo is unmatched and makes it an easy-to-slap glue on balanced. Furthermore, and in my opinion its best merit, its ability to be one of the few answers bulkier builds have to magma storm heatran is absolutely outstanding, especially when combined with its aforementioned merits.

I know the biggest argument against it is that its too passive, but its ability to force out many switches through simply walling them, and then spreading around status in the form of toxic and burn, brings great utility, especially considering the more popular switch ins, such as Tangrowth, Kartana, Tapu Bulu or even like a Zapdos coming in for a "free" defog, all don't appreciate a toxic or even a burn.

Obviously, it doesn't have as much momentum as Toxapex, considering Tox can set up T-spikes, haze to prevent sweeping, and even packs regenerator to keep up pressure. But Gastrodon brings a different niche - checking water types while still checking magma storm heatran and electric types, plus the added effect of spreading around status more effectively.

I think most of you are by now familiar with the two SPL finals matches, and are probably way more knowledgeable than me to know the full implications of why Gastrodon had a key role for the winning team, so I'll just include the replays with my take on them:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-362100 - Gondra vs. Trosk. Gondra had MG Clef so Trosk's Gastrodon did absolutely nothing. However, Gondra's Gastrodon shut down Tapu Koko, kept Heatran in check, and Toxic'd the opposing Gastrodon to secure the slow win.


https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-363452 - TDK vs. ABR. ABR's gastro put Tapu Koko in check, but because of MG Clef, it couldn't do much out of that. TDK's Gastrodon made sure his team doesn't fall apart to magma storm Heatran, which would have otherwise won the game, and served as a nice additional check to M-Diancie and Torn-T.



P.S:

| 38 | Gastrodon | 7 | 3.68% | 57.14% |

This is a PU pokemon btw lol. This doesn't even include the finals week, which should puts Gastro at top 30 if im not mistaken.
 
That wasn't my point though, it was that fewer people are running 'multiple' 4x weak mons on one team. Ok here is some evidence, with two of the top 4x weak to Ice mons are below, both only have only two of their top twelve partners also weak to Ice (only 2x), 4 from Landorus resist, 1 of them a 4x resist. 5 of Zygardes resist.

Before when no-one used Weavile or Mamoswine, people could run Zyagrde, Landorus and Tapu Bulu with nothing to fear really. Also how is being walled by two extremely common top OU not a detriment to its OU viability? Ice is not that amazing, HP [Ice] just hits the Ground types most electrics can't and has perfect coverage along side Electric. Landorus carries just for opposing Landog as it is such a common lead.

While not all can beat 1v1, Kyurem can't come in on Scarf Ninja as Rock Slide is 2HKO. Magnezone outspeeds and KO's after Rocks so idk what your point was there. Tornadus outspeeds and KO's with the Z-Move. Also I'll add this thing hates hazards which are everywhere now. Still on Kyurem-B to A-
.

+----------------------------------------+
| Landorus-Therian |
+----------------------------------------+
| Raw count: 1100368 |
| Avg. weight: 0.102709943733 |
| Viability Ceiling: 91 |
+----------------------------------------+
| Abilities |
| Intimidate 100.000% |
+----------------------------------------+
| Items |
| Choice Scarf 24.452% |
| Leftovers 21.963% |
| Rocky Helmet 21.103% |
| Flyinium Z 11.730% |
| Focus Sash 8.548% |
| Rockium Z 4.152% |
| Yache Berry 3.613% |
| Other 4.440% |
+----------------------------------------+
| Spreads |
| Jolly:0/252/0/0/4/252 12.567% |
| Jolly:0/252/4/0/0/252 10.259% |
| Impish:252/0/240/0/0/16 7.412% |
| Adamant:0/252/0/0/4/252 3.880% |
| Naive:0/252/0/4/0/252 3.580% |
| Jolly:4/252/0/0/0/252 2.897% |
| Other 59.406% |
+----------------------------------------+
| Moves |
| Earthquake 98.961% |
| U-turn 67.888% |
| Stealth Rock 63.178% |
| Hidden Power Ice 55.298% |
| Defog 20.616% |
| Stone Edge 18.038% |
| Swords Dance 17.280% |
| Explosion 14.715% |
| Fly 11.836% |
| Knock Off 10.722% |
| Smack Down 4.640% |
| Other 16.828% |
+----------------------------------------+
| Teammates |
| Tapu Koko +7.956% |
| Magearna +6.833% |
| Greninja-Ash +4.876%
|
| Kartana +4.656% |
| Medicham-Mega +3.661% |
| Tapu Lele +2.773% |
| Kyurem-Black +2.715% |
| Latios +2.143% |
| Heatran +2.008% |
| Magnezone +2.003%
|
| Alakazam-Mega +1.339% |
| Lopunny-Mega +1.256% |
+----------------------------------------+

+----------------------------------------+
| Zygarde |
+----------------------------------------+
| Raw count: 318854 |
| Avg. weight: 0.132128823526 |
| Viability Ceiling: 91 |
+----------------------------------------+
| Abilities |
| Aura Break 100.000% |
+----------------------------------------+
| Items |
| Leftovers 26.619% |
| Choice Band 24.433% |
| Dragonium Z 10.632% |
| Iapapa Berry 9.786% |
| Weakness Policy 9.014% |
| Figy Berry 4.377% |
| Groundium Z 4.338% |
| Sitrus Berry 3.730% |
| Aguav Berry 2.779% |
| Other 4.293% |
+----------------------------------------+
| Spreads |
| Adamant:0/252/0/0/4/252 24.332% |
| Adamant:4/252/0/0/0/252 9.133% |
| Adamant:160/216/0/0/28/104 8.981% |
| Adamant:188/140/0/0/0/180 8.758% |
| Adamant:0/252/4/0/0/252 4.035% |
| Adamant:160/168/0/0/0/180 3.370% |
| Other 41.390% |
+----------------------------------------+
| Moves |
| Thousand Arrows 99.645% |
| Extreme Speed 73.221% |
| Dragon Dance 64.601% |
| Outrage 40.427% |
| Substitute 36.486% |
| Coil 27.570% |
| Toxic 19.719% |
| Iron Tail 14.441% |
| Protect 11.263% |
| Other 12.627% |
+----------------------------------------+
| Teammates |
| Scizor-Mega +6.248% |
| Magearna +5.683% |
| Greninja +4.589% |
| Ninetales-Alola +3.731% |
| Diancie-Mega +3.598% |
| Gyarados-Mega +2.596%
|
| Tornadus-Therian +2.187% |
| Ditto +1.760% |
| Tapu Bulu +1.657% |
| Mew +1.558% |
| Bisharp +1.482% |
| Shuckle +1.355%
|
+----------------------------------------+


176 Atk Protean Greninja Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-Black: 186-222 (47.5 - 56.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Kyurem-Black: 320-378 (81.8 - 96.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Tornadus-Therian Supersonic Skystrike (185 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Kyurem-Black: 327-385 (83.6 - 98.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
While the mons mentioned above have decent counterplay to Kyurem, there's still the problem that these are offensive mons. Kyurem's main role as a balance breaker is what it's best at, not checking offensive teams. It does force switches rather easily of Offense teams, however, and it can be nerve racking trying to decide which Pokemon to switch in, what with Kyurem's excellent BoltBeam coverage. The threats listed above therefore would never switch into Kyurem directly, as he has the moves to OKO all of them (Ice Beam/ Fusion Bolt for Tornados-T, Fusion Bolt for Gren, and Earth Power for Magnezone). A wallbreaker is Kyurem's best role, not anti offense, and it excels at destroying walls whether running Subzero Slammer or LO KB. The role that Kyurem occupies is still very relevant, and necessary on many teams.

Kyurem A -> A- Disagree
 
While the mons mentioned above have decent counterplay to Kyurem, there's still the problem that these are offensive mons. Kyurem's main role as a balance breaker is what it's best at, not checking offensive teams. It does force switches rather easily of Offense teams, however, and it can be nerve racking trying to decide which Pokemon to switch in, what with Kyurem's excellent BoltBeam coverage. The threats listed above therefore would never switch into Kyurem directly, as he has the moves to OKO all of them (Ice Beam/ Fusion Bolt for Tornados-T, Fusion Bolt for Gren, and Earth Power for Magnezone). A wallbreaker is Kyurem's best role, not anti offense, and it excels at destroying walls whether running Subzero Slammer or LO KB. The role that Kyurem occupies is still very relevant, and necessary on many teams.

Kyurem A -> A- Disagree
I don't disagree with you, I'll concede I am a very stark Hyper Offense player so I have never personally struggled with Kyurem which may sway my opinion. However, while I agree with your points I never disputed Kyurems historical and current effectivness against balance, but I do believe that, as I have stated, Ice STAB is not as valuable as it previously was this generation and Kyurem faces competition that reduces its viability. Mamoswine fits a very similar role while having a better STAB combination and is less prediction reliant thanks to Knock Off. Also Medicham is comparable and beats balance staples, particularly Magearna, that Kyurem can't (calcs below). I can't really cite anything I haven't already seeing as you have just listed what Kyurem does instead of actually debating any points I made.

4 SpA Teravolt Kyurem-Black Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 68-80 (18.7 - 22%) -- possible 5HKO
8 SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Kyurem-Black: 428-506 (109.4 - 129.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 377-447 (103.8 - 123.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
8 SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mamoswine: 265-313 (73.4 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 313-370 (86.2 - 101.9%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
8 SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Medicham-Mega: 404-476 (154.7 - 182.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

4 SpA Teravolt Kyurem-Black Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 220+ SpD Heatran: 216-256 (56.1 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 142-168 (36.8 - 43.6%) -- 99.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 811-957 (210.6 - 248.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 674-794 (175 - 206.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Ferrothorn: 540-636 (153.4 - 180.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 SpA Teravolt Kyurem-Black Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 208+ SpD Ferrothorn: 76-91 (21.5 - 25.8%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 208+ SpD Ferrothorn: 218-260 (61.9 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Ferrothorn: 164-192 (46.5 - 54.5%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-Black: 708-834 (181 - 213.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Medicham-Mega: 208-246 (79.6 - 94.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


I added another common balance staple Ferrothorn to demonstrate that which ever Kyurem set you use, you can be walled by very common Pokemon, as beating Ferrothorn means losing to Heatran and Vise Versa, whereas Mamoswine and Medicham both fair much better with one set.

I don't think Kyurem is bad, A- is still very respectable, I just believe a drop to this rank is more representative of Kyurems place in the meta, alongside Chansey and Zapdos, rather than Scizor and Medicham.

Edit:
mellowyellowhd Yes Z-Moves are for breaking checks, but they are very easy to scout for and bait on Kyurem. You need one or the other, which ever you don't opt for leaves you walled by some very prominent mons. Obviously I'm going to give calcs to prove my point, everyone knows what Kyurem beats, so there'd be little point in posting obvious calcs that aren't related to what I'm trying to say?

Your post doesn't add anything and the best way to try and prevent further conversation on a topic would be to not reply, luckily I'm someone who hates flooding this thread, otherwise I'd have made a separate post. This whole thread is for the council to skim through while making their decisions, so that last point is pretty pointless. I included a Medicham calc as they are both balance breakers that are common on balance, I didn't mention that at all in my post so clearly I didn't really find it that important.
 
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I don't disagree with you, I'll concede I am a very stark Hyper Offense player so I have never personally struggled with Kyurem which may sway my opinion. However, while I agree with your points I never disputed Kyurems historical and current effectivness against balance, but I do believe that, as I have stated, Ice STAB is not as valuable as it previously was this generation and Kyurem faces competition that reduces its viability. Mamoswine fits a very similar role while having a better STAB combination and is less prediction reliant thanks to Knock Off. Also Medicham is comparable and beats balance staples, particularly Magearna, that Kyurem can't (calcs below). I can't really cite anything I haven't already seeing as you have just listed what Kyurem does instead of actually debating any points I made.

4 SpA Teravolt Kyurem-Black Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 68-80 (18.7 - 22%) -- possible 5HKO
8 SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Kyurem-Black: 428-506 (109.4 - 129.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 377-447 (103.8 - 123.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
8 SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mamoswine: 265-313 (73.4 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 313-370 (86.2 - 101.9%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
8 SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Medicham-Mega: 404-476 (154.7 - 182.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

4 SpA Teravolt Kyurem-Black Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 220+ SpD Heatran: 216-256 (56.1 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 142-168 (36.8 - 43.6%) -- 99.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 811-957 (210.6 - 248.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 674-794 (175 - 206.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Ferrothorn: 540-636 (153.4 - 180.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 SpA Teravolt Kyurem-Black Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 208+ SpD Ferrothorn: 76-91 (21.5 - 25.8%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 208+ SpD Ferrothorn: 218-260 (61.9 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Ferrothorn: 164-192 (46.5 - 54.5%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-Black: 708-834 (181 - 213.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Medicham-Mega: 208-246 (79.6 - 94.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


I added another common balance staple Ferrothorn to demonstrate that which ever Kyurem set you use, you can be walled by very common Pokemon, as beating Ferrothorn means losing to Heatran and Vise Versa, whereas Mamoswine and Medicham both fair much better with one set.

I don't think Kyurem is bad, A- is still very respectable, I just believe a drop to this rank is more representative of Kyurems place in the meta, alongside Chansey and Zapdos, rather than Scizor and Medicham.
I love how all of the mons you show as countermeasures lose to either Icium or Electrium LOL, I also really don't know why you've put a calc of Medicham vs Kyurem, yes Medicham beats Kyurem of course it does, but that's you cherry picking matchups we all know it doesn't do well in to prove a point we already know, I don't see the point. I think we should drop the topic at this point, we're not getting anywhere, all that can be said has been said, leave it to the council to decide.
 
ECE406F4-81B3-45D1-BBD1-CEAC21952517.png
Mega Sharpedo from C to C-.
This seems decent on paper, but in reality it doesn’t really do anything. Even with its decent power and Speed Boost, Sharpedo fails to sweep the majority of teams atm. With Scarf Kartana (Hell any relevant Scarfer beats +1 Adamant SharpedoHawlucha, Defensive Lando if you don’t have Ice Fang, AV Magearna if you don’t have Earthquake, you are going to be hard pressed to find a team weak to Sharpedo. On Bulkier Teams, AV Tapu Bulu walls you to hell and back unless if you have significant chip on it. Tapu Fini is also pretty decent atm too, so that also goes against Sharpedo.
Sharpedo is just barely viable atm, and it’s ranking should reflect this.
 
View attachment 109073Mega Sharpedo from C to C-.
This seems decent on paper, but in reality it doesn’t really do anything. Even with its decent power and Speed Boost, Sharpedo fails to sweep the majority of teams atm. With Scarf Kartana (Hell any relevant Scarfer beats +1 Adamant SharpedoHawlucha, Defensive Lando if you don’t have Ice Fang, AV Magearna if you don’t have Earthquake, you are going to be hard pressed to find a team weak to Sharpedo. On Bulkier Teams, AV Tapu Bulu walls you to hell and back unless if you have significant chip on it. Tapu Fini is also pretty decent atm too, so that also goes against Sharpedo.
Sharpedo is just barely viable atm, and it’s ranking should reflect this.

I strongly disagree with this. Right now lele+shark is fantastic as it can destroy many many cores and just offers a great offensive presence. It is not meant to be a sweeper, it's meant to be a wallbreaker which it does rather well. Of course it isn't a top tier threat and does struggle with things such as Tapu Bulu and Kartana and so on, and that's why it's in C. Sharpedo is viable just not very viable.

in regards to the chip it needs, 252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo-Mega Ice Fang vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 218-258 (63.5 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery i'd find it hard to call it significant since bulu will have come in on a special attacker prior to this or rocks chip.

Of course it's not the best against fini, but Fini is very easy to wear down and is hardley relevant. My question is this, if you say sharpedo sucks cause it can't sweep teams with checks to it such as AV mag, Lando and so on, by the same logic wouldn't Hawlucha be balls? Since it can't sweep teams with Zapdos and Koko if they are stil alive?

Sharpedo while not the best mon is certainly more usable than pokemon like Azelf and Mega Alteria and C reflects that.
 
View attachment 109073Mega Sharpedo from C to C-.
This seems decent on paper, but in reality it doesn’t really do anything. Even with its decent power and Speed Boost, Sharpedo fails to sweep the majority of teams atm. With Scarf Kartana (Hell any relevant Scarfer beats +1 Adamant SharpedoHawlucha, Defensive Lando if you don’t have Ice Fang, AV Magearna if you don’t have Earthquake, you are going to be hard pressed to find a team weak to Sharpedo. On Bulkier Teams, AV Tapu Bulu walls you to hell and back unless if you have significant chip on it. Tapu Fini is also pretty decent atm too, so that also goes against Sharpedo.
Sharpedo is just barely viable atm, and it’s ranking should reflect this.
You say Mega Sharpedo is barely viable, but then again, so is every other C mon. It's honestly pretty hard to differentiate viability between the shit in these ranks, because most of the mons (barring maybe Zam and Cresselia and Ninetails for niche playstyles like TR and Veil) don't get very much solid usage at all.

Also, you do realize that Mega Sharpedo is a late-game cleaner? Ideally, you'd only pull it out once its checks are weakened enough to the point where it can kill them. You're not bringing out Sharpedo on turn 6 with a full health Bulu and Clef on the other team still alive and ready to wall you. You bring it out when there's 3 low health foes on the enemy team that Sharpedo can easily outspeed and 1 hit. I mean Sharpedo's not good or anything but I find it really hard to compare with trash like Azelf that's only viable in like .5% of situations.

C rank is already really low, don't drop it any further. If we dropped Sharpedo we'd be dropping a lot of the other shit in that rank too, like Mega Garchomp and Alolan Muk that haven't been used at all in the past like 6 months.
 
I'd like to post about 3 mons that I think should rise/drop from their current rank.

Tornadus-T from B+ to A- (e: already rose, mb)

The Z-Fly Defog set is pretty good right now. Its ability to consistently gain momentum with U-Turn or annoy fat things with Knock Off and Taunt is really appreciated. The combinaison of Defog + Regen is also fantastic, making it a reliable defogger for BO / Balanced teams. Not to mention it's quite hard to predict this Pokemon as it can run either Superpower which kills TTar or Heat Wave meaning that the likes of Celesteela aren't safe vs TornT + Z-Fly as well. It also takes advantage of things like Scarf Lando-T since they don't run Stone Edge anymore and paired with Pokemon such as Heatran, Tapu Bulu, Clefable or Gastrodon, it really does its job well. That's why I think it deserves the A- Rank.

Mega Alakazam from B+ to A-

Idk why M-Lop is above M-Zam on the VRs. Alakazam takes advantage of PexFerro cores as well as being a great revenge killer in general. It can run HP fire for Celesteela and M-Scizors, CM to wallbreak/stallbreak even more, and Recover to check the likes of Heatran and Toxapex throughout the game. But the best thing about it imo is how well it checks toxicless Heatrans which is very appreciated on offensive teams. So, I think A- rank is legit for Mega Alakazam.

Mega Mawile from A- to B+

It has fallen in usage and it's not hard to see why. It's heavily pressured by a lot of things due to its poor speed. While its offensive utility is good (but tbh you'd prefer better wallbreakers such as Mega Medicham), its defensive utility is near zero, it generally takes almost 50% from resisted moves so you have to sack something to put in it. Lando-T has 80% of usages and Heatran, 40% making hard for it to do its job. It's also hard to find a good move against all Steel-Types of the metagame while still doing good damages to Lando-T for example. So, I think Pokemon in A- rank are better than it and I'd more see Mega Mawile in B+ rank.

Other mons such as KyuB should drop imo but I assume it's just somewhat outdated.
 
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I'd like to post about 3 mons that I think should rise/drop from their current rank.

Tornadus-T from B+ to A-

The Z-Fly Defog set is pretty good right now. Its ability to consistently gain momentum with U-Turn or annoy fat things with Knock Off and Taunt is really appreciated. The combinaison of Defog + Regen is also fantastic, making it a reliable defogger for BO / Balanced teams. Not to mention it's quite hard to predict this Pokemon as it can run either Superpower which kills TTar or Heat Wave meaning that the likes of Celesteela aren't safe vs TornT + Z-Fly as well. It also takes advantage of things like Scarf Lando-T since they don't run Stone Edge anymore and paired with Pokemon such as Heatran, Tapu Bulu, Clefable or Gastrodon, it really does its job well. That's why I think it deserves the A- Rank.

Mega Alakazam from B+ to A-

Idk why M-Lop is above M-Zam on the VRs. Alakazam takes advantage of PexFerro cores as well as being a great revenge killer in general. It can run HP fire for Celesteela and M-Scizors, CM to wallbreak/stallbreak even more, and Recover to check the likes of Heatran and Toxapex throughout the game. But the best thing about it imo is how well it checks toxicless Heatrans which is very appreciated on offensive teams. So, I think A- rank is legit for Mega Alakazam.

Mega Mawile from A- to B+

It has fallen in usage and it's not hard to see why. It's heavily pressured by a lot of things due to its poor speed. While its offensive utility is good (but tbh you'd prefer better wallbreakers such as Mega Medicham), its defensive utility is near zero, it generally takes almost 50% from resisted moves so you have to sack something to put in it. Lando-T has 80% of usages and Heatran, 40% making hard for it to do its job. It's also hard to find a good move against all Steel-Types of the metagame while still doing good damages to Lando-T for example. So, I think Pokemon in A- rank are better than it and I'd more see Mega Mawile in B+ rank.

Other mons such as KyuB should drop imo but I assume it's just somewhat outdated.
Council already voted on Torn-T, it’s A-.

Agree with Mega Mawile, it’s just bad atm. Swords Dance sets have problems setting up, and all out attacker, while forcing switches, just isn’t as good anymore. Also better wall breakers like Mega Medicham are on the rise.
 
7A159413-03A6-4234-BF16-B54722723484.png
Alakazam from C to C+
LO Alakazam is a pretty nice in the current meta. Aside from Scald Tapu Fini, you are not going to find a better Heatran switchin, which is really nice due to Heatran lacking good switch ins atm. A lot of teams, specifically ones that rely on Heatran to take Psychic-Type moves, really struggle with Alakazam because of it carrying Focus Blast; meaning Alakazam has a pretty easy time wallbreaking right now. Alakazam is also MUCH better than the majority of C except for Qwilfish (which is pretty solid atm and could go up a rank) and Mega Slowbro. Alakazam also appreciates Celesteela having low usage atm. Although quite niche, the sash set has some merit as it is a gaurenteed Hawlucha check. This is why I feel Alakazam could use a raise.
Hopefully I redeemed myself with this nomination.
 
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View attachment 109235Alakazam from C to C+
LO Alakazam is a pretty nice in the current meta. Aside from Scald Tapu Fini, you are not going to find a better Heatran switchin, which is really nice due to Heatran lacking good switch ins atm. A lot of teams, specifically ones that rely on Heatran to take Psychic-Type moves, really struggle with Alakazam because of it carrying Focus Blast; meaning Alakazam has a pretty easy time wallbreaking right now. Alakazam is also MUCH better than the majority of C except for Qwilfish (which is pretty solid atm and could go up a rank) and Mega Slowbro. Alakazam also appreciates Celesteela having low usage atm. This is why I feel Alakazam could use a raise.
Hopefully I redeemed myself with this nomination.
It's completely outclassed by Mega Alakazam though. Mega Alakazam is much faster and slightly bulkier (It's still frail) so it can switch in to Earth Powers or Magma Storms better (Especially because it traces Flash Fire). It also does roughly the same amount of damage, the only normal Alakazam set that isn't outclassed is the Counter set, and that's barely of a niche.

Keep Alakazam in C
 
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I'd like to nominate a pokemon that probably seems completely unviable, but I think it has unique traits that make it distinguishable and viable in the metagame. This mon can be used as a wall as well as, at times, a wallbreaker.
UR --> C-

I've been using this set:

Slowking @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Fire Blast
- Psychic/Psyshock/Future Sight

Ice Beam takes out Landorus, Zygarde, and other sweepers. Fire Blast pins defensive steel types like Celesteela and Ferrothorn. Psychic takes out Hawlucha and forces out Toxapex. Scald is meant to hit Heatran and general switch ins to fish out for burns.

The rest of this post is basically trying to justify this over Magearna and Amoongus.

It seems, at first glance that Amoonguss, although having less special bulk than Slowking, is a much better in basically every situation. It resists Koko and Greninja, two major special attackers in the metagame, while Slowking cannot. Plus, Amoonguss has access to Clear Smog, Spore, Toxic, etc., which Slowking does not/cannot have due to its need for AV. What separates Slowking from Amoonguss is that Slowking can hard counter Latios and most Heatran variants(excluding the basically nonexistent Bloom Doom variant) as well as act as a soft check to Lele and at times, even Greninja. More importantly, it has a higher special defense and diverse movepool. It’s higher special defense means that it doesn’t need to invest any of its EVs into special defense, and instead, transfer them to special attack. This, along with moves such as Ice Beam and Fire Blast, allow it to threaten walls/leads such as Landorus, Venusaur, Magearna, Ferrothorn(only with prediction/chip damage), and Toxapex, as well as sweepers/wallbreakers like Zygarde, Hawlucha, Blacephalon, and Latios. At the same time, Slowking can act as a wall towards many special attackers and even some physical attackers because of its respectable defense and Regenerator. Slowking can afford to stay in to many physical attackers an retaliate with powerful coverage moves. Amoonguss, although also able to take some physical hits when needed, does not have the coverage to justify it staying in to most physical attackers. Slowking, unlike Amoonguss, can pose a legitimate threat to offensively oriented teams, while also maintaining its position as a special wall.
Magearna also seems to be a wall that also outclasses Slowking. It has more special bulk, higher special attack, and a way to gain momentum. It can counter Koko, Greninja, and Lele much better than Slowking could. Its special attack allows it to pose a threat to many frail offensive pokemon as well. However, again, Slowking has a lot more useful coverage moves. It is able to counter many ground type pokemon, which Magearna simply cannot do. Magearna, without any healing ability or move, is left susceptible to chip damage, while its frailness physically prevented it from staying in to many physical attackers which Slowking can handle due to access to recovery and powerful moves. Slowking also has Future Sight, which can break momentum of the other team, which can somewhat make up for Slowking's lack of a pivot move. Overall, Slowking gives up the ability to check some important special attackers to being able to counter various physical attackers as well. Due to Slowking’s ability, it is able to scout, and can be played with more risks, while Magearna has to be played very carefully.
Overall, although Slowking can be seen as a less potent wall than other special walls prevalent in the OU metagame, its special bulk combined with offensive ability and Regenerator gives Slowking the ability to threaten physical walls and pokemon it even softly counters, giving it a niche in comparison to common special walls.

Some Calcs
252+ SpA Slowking Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 208+ SpD Ferrothorn: 296-352 (84 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Slowking Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 432-512 (113 - 134%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Slowking Psychic vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 152-180 (50.1 - 59.4%) -- 74.6% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Slowking Psychic vs. 152 HP / 8 SpD Hawlucha: 390-458 (116.4 - 136.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Slowking Ice Beam vs. 188 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 376-444 (93 - 109.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery

Replays:
(Note: I'm also using Bayb's replays. I don't have a lot of replays showing Slowking countering physical attackers because I also use Slowbro-M.)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-725623801
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-725179692
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-727322879
 
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View attachment 109235Alakazam from C to C+
LO Alakazam is a pretty nice in the current meta. Aside from Scald Tapu Fini, you are not going to find a better Heatran switchin, which is really nice due to Heatran lacking good switch ins atm. A lot of teams, specifically ones that rely on Heatran to take Psychic-Type moves, really struggle with Alakazam because of it carrying Focus Blast; meaning Alakazam has a pretty easy time wallbreaking right now. Alakazam is also MUCH better than the majority of C except for Qwilfish (which is pretty solid atm and could go up a rank) and Mega Slowbro. Alakazam also appreciates Celesteela having low usage atm. Although quite niche, the sash set has some merit as it is a gaurenteed Hawlucha check. This is why I feel Alakazam could use a raise.
Hopefully I redeemed myself with this nomination.
Wouldn't Mega Alakazam still be the better switchin to Heatran since it can Trace Flash Fire? Regular Alakazam is no switchin since it can only come in on a Magma Storm once anyway due to its pitiful bulk which, post-Magma Storm damage, leaves it vulnerable to priority attacks like Mega Pinsir's Quick Attack and Mega Scizor's Bullet Punch, and no Heatran is staying in vs a potential Focus Blast since Mega Alakazam's kills offensive Heatran after rocks anyway. Also, I don't see a reason why I'd use LO Zam over Tapu Lele (which actually pairs well with Mega Alakazam) as a Psychic-type breaker. It still has Focus Blast for Heatran and its Psychic STAB naturally out-damages LO Zam thanks to terrain which also provides anti-priority support. Both Lele and Mega Alakazam also appreciate low Celesteela usage, so I still don't see how that makes regular Alakazam any special. Also remember that regular Zam is outpaced by Tornadus-T, both Greninjas, Tapu Koko, and Mega Lopunny, which is a serious bummer when its Mega form outpaces all of those while still maintaining a similar damage output.

I'd rather have much better speed and the ability to disrupt certain playstyles and mons with Trace (rain, sand, Heatran's Flash Fire, Toxapex and Tornadus-T's Regenerator, etc) than like 7% more damage. Its one defining set that differentiates itself over its mega form is the Sash Counter set, and even that isn't too stellar right now. I also vote to keep Alakazam at C.
 
Wouldn't Mega Alakazam still be the better switchin to Heatran since it can Trace Flash Fire? Regular Alakazam is no switchin since it can only come in on a Magma Storm once anyway due to its pitiful bulk which, post-Magma Storm damage, leaves it vulnerable to priority attacks like Mega Pinsir's Quick Attack and Mega Scizor's Bullet Punch, and no Heatran is staying in vs a potential Focus Blast since Mega Alakazam's kills offensive Heatran after rocks anyway. Also, I don't see a reason why I'd use LO Zam over Tapu Lele (which actually pairs well with Mega Alakazam) as a Psychic-type breaker. It still has Focus Blast for Heatran and its Psychic STAB naturally out-damages LO Zam thanks to terrain which also provides anti-priority support. Both Lele and Mega Alakazam also appreciate low Celesteela usage, so I still don't see how that makes regular Alakazam any special. Also remember that regular Zam is outpaced by Tornadus-T, both Greninjas, Tapu Koko, and Mega Lopunny, which is a serious bummer when its Mega form outpaces all of those while still maintaining a similar damage output.

I'd rather have much better speed and the ability to disrupt certain playstyles and mons with Trace (rain, sand, Heatran's Flash Fire, Toxapex and Tornadus-T's Regenerator, etc) than like 7% more damage. Its one defining set that differentiates itself over its mega form is the Sash Counter set, and even that isn't too stellar right now. I also vote to keep Alakazam at C.
LO Zam can run Recover to beat Heatran . Alakazam is immune to spikes which is super nice for it with spikes everywhere and not taking damage from Magma Storm or Toxic is really nice. Zam is a lot faster than Tapu Lele and also can pressure mons like Pex and Heatran immensely. Magic Guard is the main advantage of regular Zam over its mega form as it allows it to hard check Heatran and excell in spikes vs spikes matchups. Not mega evolving with MZam can keep heatran in check but without a Life Orb it is far weaker. With recover, Assault Vest Magearna cannot pressure it immensely either and it can take advantage of other fat pokemon such as mantine.

Unranked-->somewhere higher

Virizion has been an ignored Pokemon since its release in BW, and for good reason, until recently. In BW it was pressured to handle sand and DragonSpam teams nearly always carrying Latios and rain often carrying Tornadus-T or other speed control to beat virizion. In ORAS, Latios and Tornadus-Therian were far more common and for some time there were Pokemon such as Aegislash which completely stopped it and for other parts people thought that Mega Altaria was better than it is. In the current state of USUM, however, many teams lack sufficient countermeasures with often using Pokemon like Scarfed Landorus-T or Ash-Greninja as speed control(both of which Virizion beats, as long as Landorus-T is not Explosion). With Grassium Z Virizion can OHKO Toxapex and get a lot of damage onto Clefable and Mew, and it always eats an attack. Healing Wish support can help it against burns from Mew. It can beat the two most common Spikers in the tier and also soft check grounds and provide a mon that deters Tapu Koko from clicking Thunderbolt. This makes it extremely good on offensive teams.

Virizion @ Grassium Z
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 48 SpD / 208 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Leaf Blade
- Stone Edge

This is the main set that Virizion should be using, and the speed EVs allow it to creep Max Speed Garchomp, while maximizing the chance of living a Magearna Fleur Cannon after Stealth Rock damage. Stone Edge allows it to destroy Zapdos and fires like Volcarona.

In comparison to competition it has significant advantages. In comparison to Kartana it can beat Celesteela 1v1 without 50/50s, bypass Zapdos, not get trapped by Scarfed Magnezone, and slightly better damage onto Fighting Moves allows it to have an approximately 50% chance to ohko SG Magearna at +2 after Stealth Rock Damage. It also beats random HP Fire Ferrothorn and is not revenge killed by Scarf Landorus-T and Ash-Greninja, and instead checks these two Pokemon.

It is a bit harder to justify in comparison to SD Tapu Bulu. However, it has significantly better speed which allows it to outspeed and kill Heatran along with Z move Landorus-T, Hoopa-Unbound, Suicune, Max speed Zygarde, Tapu Lele, and Kyurem Black. In addition, not being steel weak helps it out immensely against Mega Scizor and Celesteela, two known Tapu Bulu checks, and is not weak to Gyro Ball Ferrothorn and even though Tapu Bulu does not outright lose to Mega Latios, Virizion can beat many of its main checks.

The main reason I'm nomming it is not to get it to C- or C, but somewhere higher than that as it has many redeeming qualities that allow it to pressure many solid teams, especially Mega Heracross and Mawile teams. Weavile support is almost neccesary to pressure Tornadus-T and Mega Latios, and Tyranitar-M creates a team which is almost balance, which Virizion does not like as it can be used for an Ash-Greninja check, which does not matter to balance. Mega Venusaur is pretty bad, but Mega Venusaur can beat Virzion, with a +2 Stone Edge dealing only half.

Virizion @ Grassium Z
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 48 SpD / 208 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Leaf Blade
- Stone Edge

Weavile @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Pursuit

Lopunny-Mega @ Lopunnite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Return
- Ice Punch
- Healing Wish

Toxapex @ Eject Button
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Haze
- Toxic
- Recover

Garchomp @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 248 HP / 20 Def / 184 SpD / 56 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Toxic

Magearna @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shift Gear
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast

This team was quickly built and is slightly weak to grounds, with Virizion being its ground resist. However, it does show how Virizion can be used on an offensive team

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-728201915 This is the only replay that I have as I don't want to share a non-public team and don't like going on ladder where the teams can be mediocre and the players can make obvious misplays costing the game. If anyone wants more replays, I can use it and get a few ladder replays.

edit @ below: I believe virizion's main niche comes from being much harder to RK than kartana with most scarfers and Ash-Gren and Unaware Clef Stall matchup sucks but most other stalls are pressured by Virizion, and Kartana struggles against Zapdos. fwiw, I don't believe virizion is nearly as good as Kartana, but it pressures some teams that are prepared for Kartana reasonably well.
 
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Finchinator

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While I do feel like you actually present some valid arguments and justification, I do question the practical niche of Virizion. For example, Kartana obviously stands-out as a clear competitor to Virizion's viability, specifically the SD sets of both. Generally speaking, I think we can all agree Kartana is better and more consistently effective, but it does have 1-2 flaws (most notably being trapped and RKd by Scarf Magnezone) that Virizion can at least work around. My main thing is the fact that this spot generally wants to give you more leverage against defensive oriented teams, especially the rare Stall. Virizion's ability to break stall, especially that with Unaware Clefable, is much worse than that of Kartana due to much worse attack, no Beast Boost, and a weaker Bloom Doom. I do think that there still is some niche against Magnezone teams and vs max Def Zapdos, but I feel like Celestela isn't too big here as Z-Fighting Kartana manages it after chip and you do not even 1v1 Celesteela, you need to SD as it switches in when it likely doesn't even act as a switch-in to begin with. All things considered, I would not personally advocate for a rise, but if others actually use (and do NOT just theorymon!!!) and have insightful arguments that align with yours or side with the viability of Virizion, then we will look in to it!
 

Felixx

I'm back.
I'd like to nominate a pokemon that probably seems completely unviable, but I think it has unique traits that make it distinguishable and viable in the metagame. This mon can be used as a wall as well as, at times, a wallbreaker.
UR --> C-

I've been using this set:

Slowking @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Fire Blast
- Psychic/Psyshock/Future Sight

Ice Beam takes out Landorus, Zygarde, and other sweepers. Fire Blast pins defensive steel types like Celesteela and Ferrothorn. Psychic takes out Hawlucha and forces out Toxapex. Scald is meant to hit Heatran and general switch ins to fish out for burns.

The rest of this post is basically trying to justify this over Magearna and Amoongus.

It seems, at first glance that Amoonguss, although having less special bulk than Slowking, is a much better in basically every situation. It resists Koko and Greninja, two major special attackers in the metagame, while Slowking cannot. Plus, Amoonguss has access to Clear Smog, Spore, Toxic, etc., which Slowking does not/cannot have due to its need for AV. What separates Slowking from Amoonguss is that Slowking can hard counter Latios and most Heatran variants(excluding the basically nonexistent Bloom Doom variant) as well as act as a soft check to Lele and at times, even Greninja. More importantly, it has a higher special defense and diverse movepool. It’s higher special defense means that it doesn’t need to invest any of its EVs into special defense, and instead, transfer them to special attack. This, along with moves such as Ice Beam and Fire Blast, allow it to threaten walls/leads such as Landorus, Venusaur, Magearna, Ferrothorn(only with prediction/chip damage), and Toxapex, as well as sweepers/wallbreakers like Zygarde, Hawlucha, Blacephalon, and Latios. At the same time, Slowking can act as a wall towards many special attackers and even some physical attackers because of its respectable defense and Regenerator. Slowking can afford to stay in to many physical attackers an retaliate with powerful coverage moves. Amoonguss, although also able to take some physical hits when needed, does not have the coverage to justify it staying in to most physical attackers. Slowking, unlike Amoonguss, can pose a legitimate threat to offensively oriented teams, while also maintaining its position as a special wall.
Magearna also seems to be a wall that also outclasses Slowking. It has more special bulk, higher special attack, and a way to gain momentum. It can counter Koko, Greninja, and Lele much better than Slowking could. Its special attack allows it to pose a threat to many frail offensive pokemon as well. However, again, Slowking has a lot more useful coverage moves. It is able to counter many ground type pokemon, which Magearna simply cannot do. Magearna, without any healing ability or move, is left susceptible to chip damage, while its frailness physically prevented it from staying in to many physical attackers which Slowking can handle due to access to recovery and powerful moves. Slowking also has Future Sight, which can break momentum of the other team, which can somewhat make up for Slowking's lack of a pivot move. Overall, Slowking gives up the ability to check some important special attackers to being able to counter various physical attackers as well. Due to Slowking’s ability, it is able to scout, and can be played with more risks, while Magearna has to be played very carefully.
Overall, although Slowking can be seen as a less potent wall than other special walls prevalent in the OU metagame, its special bulk combined with offensive ability and Regenerator gives Slowking the ability to threaten physical walls and pokemon it even softly counters, giving it a niche in comparison to common special walls.

Some Calcs
252+ SpA Slowking Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 208+ SpD Ferrothorn: 296-352 (84 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Slowking Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 432-512 (113 - 134%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Slowking Psychic vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 152-180 (50.1 - 59.4%) -- 74.6% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Slowking Psychic vs. 152 HP / 8 SpD Hawlucha: 390-458 (116.4 - 136.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Slowking Ice Beam vs. 188 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 376-444 (93 - 109.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery

Replays:
(Note: I'm also using Bayb's replays. I don't have a lot of replays showing Slowking countering physical attackers because I also use Slowbro-M.)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-725623801
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-725179692
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-727322879
I think I've found a better spread for AV Slowking,

Slowking @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 104 Def / 156 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Fire Blast
- Psychic

Unlike the no defense investment spread, this spread allows Slowking to survive a +2 Acro from no item Hawlucha and not get 2HKO'ed by Specs Lele's Psyshock, both from full HP.

+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 104 Def Slowking: 331-390 (84.2 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 104 Def Slowking in Psychic Terrain: 156-184 (39.6 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
 

1_TrickPhony

BSS Circuit Co-host
So I saw that Alolan Golem was nominated about a page ago, and I'd like to echo the sentiments and provide a replay that I think shows the value that this round roll-y sphere can provide.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-728451293

For many teams that struggle with heatran (like my psyspam core), eject button + alolan golem can really do a number on heatran. I borrowed the tapu fini from goomy's team as a good mon that can soak up hits from common steels into eject button. Golem has a lot of targets, and my replay shows how effective it can be at removing a tran and even things like M-Scizor.

Lets see this thing go to C-/C please, it provides a very usable niche not covered by magnezone by taking out almost the exact opposite steels that zone handles (along with some similar ones like the steel birds).
 
I nominated a pokemon would like to go up his rank, but i think that i will do my best to talk about it above.

1522967332640.png

Gyarados B --> B+

With the boost +1 attack and speed of Dragon Dance, he has very little chance to OHKO Toxapex, Zygarde (except Sub DD) and Mega Scizor (2HKO without the rock and OHKO after Stealh Rock) with Supersonic Skystrike (he can one hit kill SD Kartana w/Z-move), seen that his ability Moxie give a boost in attack he becomes a monstrous sweeper for Tapu Koko, after the boost in speed, and can to be OHKO Tapu Koko, Heatran and Magnezone by Earthquake. Despite that some Scarf user like Greninja, Tapu Lele, Kartana, Garchomp can the outspeed, i find that Gyarados is very poweful with Z-move compared the mega who can take the Dark type that he loses easily against Kartana Scarf. If I think with the little argument Gyarados to B+ in any case i approve his Z-Bounce is powerful for reason after the boost in speed by DD.

Some calculations below to prove with Z-move that it's possible but very little chance to the OHKO
PS: I hope my arguments are good and hold the road i know it a little text argumentation. (^_^)

+1 252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Toxapex: 262-310 (86.4 - 102.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Black Sludge recovery
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Toxapex: 262-310 (86.4 - 102.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 322-381 (89.9 - 106.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 322-381 (89.9 - 106.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 188 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 322-381 (79.7 - 94.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 188 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 322-381 (79.7 - 94.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 124 Def Scizor-Mega: 259-306 (75.5 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 124 Def Scizor-Mega: 259-306 (75.5 - 89.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
 
I nominated a pokemon would like to go up his rank, but i think that i will do my best to talk about it above.

View attachment 109466
Gyarados B --> B+

With the boost +1 attack and speed of Dragon Dance, he has very little chance to OHKO Toxapex, Zygarde (except Sub DD) and Mega Scizor (2HKO without the rock and OHKO after Stealh Rock) with Supersonic Skystrike (he can one hit kill SD Kartana w/Z-move), seen that his ability Moxie give a boost in attack he becomes a monstrous sweeper for Tapu Koko, after the boost in speed, and can to be OHKO Tapu Koko, Heatran and Magnezone by Earthquake. Despite that some Scarf user like Greninja, Tapu Lele, Kartana, Garchomp can the outspeed, i find that Gyarados is very poweful with Z-move compared the mega who can take the Dark type that he loses easily against Kartana Scarf. If I think with the little argument Gyarados to B+ in any case i approve his Z-Bounce is powerful for reason after the boost in speed by DD.

Some calculations below to prove with Z-move that it's possible but very little chance to the OHKO
PS: I hope my arguments are good and hold the road i know it a little text argumentation. (^_^)

+1 252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Toxapex: 262-310 (86.4 - 102.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Black Sludge recovery
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Toxapex: 262-310 (86.4 - 102.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 322-381 (89.9 - 106.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 322-381 (89.9 - 106.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 188 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 322-381 (79.7 - 94.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 188 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 322-381 (79.7 - 94.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 124 Def Scizor-Mega: 259-306 (75.5 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 124 Def Scizor-Mega: 259-306 (75.5 - 89.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
I think the fact that it's a very little chance to OHKO is a bad thing, not a good thing for a raise. You're saying this set lacks power to OHKO the biggest wall in the OU metagame and then Toxapex can get the Regenerator by switching. How is that good for Gyarados?
 
I think the fact that it's a very little chance to OHKO is a bad thing, not a good thing for a raise. You're saying this set lacks power to OHKO the biggest wall in the OU metagame and then Toxapex can get the Regenerator by switching. How is that good for Gyarados?
I wouldn't say this is a good argument as if rocks are up, which they often are, that's almost a guaranteed OHKO. Also, gyarados regularly carries EQ, which deals a minimum of 72 to pex at +1, so getting back health via regen isn't going to matter as pex still can't stop your sweep.
I support gyarados rising, it is a very difficult pokemon to deal with rn, quite often you look at your opponents team and hope they have mega gyarados instead of flyinium as it is far harder to deal with, as z-bounce breaks through many common mons like Bulu (or basically any grass type) which beat it's mega counterpart. After a DD it is also relatively hard to revenge, as it can tank attacks from the most common scarfers, lando (this does literally nothing to it) and kart (although it's a roll after rocks) as well as taking at max 30 from ash gren's shuriken and not much more from zyg's espeed, and then proceed to rip through offensive teams with ease due to moxie. Due to a decent defensive typing, it isn't too hard to set up either, as common mons like lando (without zmove) simply cannot touch it. Honestly this is probably the scariest mon in the B rank, considerably better than it's mega atm, and needs to move up to B+.
 
Not much to add BlueLobster covered it all above, just wanna voice support for a rise. This mon has been my go-to setup sweeper since SM started, and most matches you just have to remove/weaken that one zapdos or celesteela, and gyara goes to town. Multiple priority users after rocks are an issue, but gyara brings solid defensive utility and offensive prowess so filling in gaps with the team is not at all hard.
At the very least, he should be ranked above his mega, because fly-z breaks everything.
 
Well! I will retry to nominate a unranked mon, I think it will probably be good this time to present it.

1523092375588.png

Emboar Unranked --> C-

The set I use and this one :
Emboar @ Choice Band
Ability: Reckless
EV: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
- Flare Blitz
- Superpower
- Wild Charge
- Earthquake

Emboar is a good wallbreaker with 123 base stat in attack, with Band allows to have only one choice move and his ability Reckless boost the damage recoil Flare Blitz take out Magearna, Celesteela, Skarmory, and other Steel type(Volcarona may be OHKO by Flare Blitz unless it is Psychinium-Z set). Wild charge allows to count slower water type like Toxapex despite it's still better wall on meta he have 37% chance to OHKO after rock with Wild Charge (except Water/Grounds like Quagsire or Gastrodon that we must be obliged spam Superpower).I chose Earthquake for counter Heatran and Magnezone because to pass them easily however, that Heatran can absorb Flare Blitz of Emboar by Flash Fire. Superpower take out Tyranitar, Kyurem-B, Weavile, Mamoswine, ... and mostly the wall more cancerous Chansey grace to Superpower this wall maybe OHKO.
Due done that he can counter by Scarf like Tapu Lele, Greninja, Garchomp, or good defensive example Quagsire that he can 2HKO due done with ability Unaware, well Emboar stay a good wallbreaker despite that he have slow speed.

Some Calculation
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 602-710 (165.8 - 195.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 104+ Def Celesteela: 542-642 (136.5 - 161.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 386-456 (115.9 - 136.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Wild Charge vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Toxapex: 236-278 (77.8 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Wild Charge vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Toxapex: 236-278 (77.8 - 91.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Emboar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 600-708 (155.4 - 183.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Emboar Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 560-660 (198.5 - 234%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Emboar Superpower vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 746-882 (106.2 - 125.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Emboar Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 226-267 (57.3 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

The only replay I did and Emboar save my game on the last pokemon.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-729101978
 

Felixx

I'm back.
Well! I will retry to nominate a unranked mon, I think it will probably be good this time to present it.

View attachment 109639
Emboar Unranked --> C-

The set I use and this one :
Emboar @ Choice Band
Ability: Reckless
EV: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
- Flare Blitz
- Superpower
- Wild Charge
- Earthquake

Emboar is a good wallbreaker with 123 base stat in attack, with Band allows to have only one choice move and his ability Reckless boost the damage recoil Flare Blitz take out Magearna, Celesteela, Skarmory, and other Steel type(Volcarona may be OHKO by Flare Blitz unless it is Psychinium-Z set). Wild charge allows to count slower water type like Toxapex despite it's still better wall on meta he have 37% chance to OHKO after rock with Wild Charge (except Water/Grounds like Quagsire or Gastrodon that we must be obliged spam Superpower).I chose Earthquake for counter Heatran and Magnezone because to pass them easily however, that Heatran can absorb Flare Blitz of Emboar by Flash Fire. Superpower take out Tyranitar, Kyurem-B, Weavile, Mamoswine, ... and mostly the wall more cancerous Chansey grace to Superpower this wall maybe OHKO.
Due done that he can counter by Scarf like Tapu Lele, Greninja, Garchomp, or good defensive example Quagsire that he can 2HKO due done with ability Unaware, well Emboar stay a good wallbreaker despite that he have slow speed.

Some Calculation
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 602-710 (165.8 - 195.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 104+ Def Celesteela: 542-642 (136.5 - 161.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 386-456 (115.9 - 136.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Wild Charge vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Toxapex: 236-278 (77.8 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Wild Charge vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Toxapex: 236-278 (77.8 - 91.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Emboar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 600-708 (155.4 - 183.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Emboar Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 560-660 (198.5 - 234%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Emboar Superpower vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 746-882 (106.2 - 125.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Emboar Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 226-267 (57.3 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

The only replay I did and Emboar save my game on the last pokemon.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-729101978
Isn't this completely outclassed by both Zard X and Heatran as an offensive Fire-Type? The only thing I can think this has over Zard X is the ability to beat Quag (even Jolly CB Superpower 2HKOs because Unaware ignores attack drops), and over Heatran it can beat Gastrodon (Adamant CB Superpower will OHKO), but those are very very specific niches, and overall Emboar just ends up being outclassed and is generally ineffective compared to the two because of both having better speed tiers, both being more consistent in most match-ups, and having much less of an oppurtunity cost since Heatran has no switch-ins and Zard X's most common switch-ins get worn down easily. So I'm disagreeing with Emboar getting ranked.
 
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