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Kommo-o should rise to C+, maybe even B-. Not much has changed for Kommo-o in terms of the meta, but recently, people have been experimenting with it a lot more. The discovery of Stealth Rock Kommo-o is really what should make it rise in my opinion, because it has clearly proven itself to be a viable asset to a myriad of teams. For reference, it was used a few times in SPL.
Sorry for the short post, but I don't have a lot of time right now.
Kommo-o should really be added to the list as it already made its debut in ou and I figure it should be at least at c+ rank as -
The increasing prevalence of steel types like heatran, magnezone, kartana and ferrothorn would make it’s stab close combat very useful.
When paired with its z stone kommonium z kommo-o becomes a force to be reckoned with. It’s z move clangorous soulblaze gives it a +1 boost in all stats allowing it to outspeed mega alakazam, ash-greninja, tapu koko etc.
Apart from steel types it is also an effective counter to garchomp, ash-greninja, mega tyranitar, mega gyarados etc.
But it will face a tough time if Pokemon like tapu koko, tapu Lele and mega medicham face it before it uses its z move. And Pokemon like clefable and magearna will also prevent it from using its z move without which kommo-o is a pretty weak Pokemon. Well this is my first post so I hope u ppl shall treat me well. And pls point out any mistakes I have made.
There are multiple things in this list I disagree with, although before I say them I want to say I agree with you, but your support is just lacking a little bit. For one it is not a counter to mon like MGyara, chomp and (protean or Ash-) gren, because they all commonly have coverage ice moves, and certain chomp sets can easily outspeed and ohko kommo. There are also numerous fairy types that are extremely prominent and fucking obliterate kommo, and many other bulky mon like tangrowth and skar can tank lots of what kommo throws at it, and defog its rocks. However, kommo isn't bad. Like you said kommonium is amazing, and the boosts make up for its speed and give its other stats a shot in the arm. Its typing is also amazingly offensively, and has ok bulk to switch in to fire, ice, electric and dark moves pretty comfy. I want the kommo rise as well.
There are multiple things in this list I disagree with, although before I say them I want to say I agree with you, but your support is just lacking a little bit. For one it is not a counter to mon like MGyara, chomp and (protean or Ash-) gren, because they all commonly have coverage ice moves, and certain chomp sets can easily outspeed and ohko kommo. There are also numerous fairy types that are extremely prominent and fucking obliterate kommo, and many other bulky mon like tangrowth and skar can tank lots of what kommo throws at it, and defog its rocks. However, kommo isn't bad. Like you said kommonium is amazing, and the boosts make up for its speed and give its other stats a shot in the arm. Its typing is also amazingly offensively, and has ok bulk to switch in to fire, ice, electric and dark moves pretty comfy. I want the kommo rise as well.
I definitely wouldn't say that Mega Gyarados and Ash-Greninja (he didn't mention Protean) commonly run Ice-type moves. MGyara generally chooses between Dragon Dance, Crunch, Earthquake, Subtitute, Taunt and Waterfall before considering Ice Fang. Ash-Greninja generally runs Hydro Pump/Surf, Dark Pulse, Water Shuriken and Spikes. Ice Beam over Spikes is viable but it's not common. Garchomp loses to a boosted Kommo-o considering it rarely runs Dragon-type moves anymore (it doesn't learn any Ice-type moves).
I agree that Fairy-types obliterate Kommo-o but its Poison Jab can do a big chunk to them, it actually OHKOs Tapu Bulu and Tapu Lele at +1.
Tangrowth doesn't learn Defog and Skarmory isn't all that common.
Not sure why you call it an Ice switch-in considering it's weak to Ice which you even addressed earlier.
Please inform yourself before calling other people out.
Either way I support Kommo-o rising to C+.
There are multiple things in this list I disagree with, although before I say them I want to say I agree with you, but your support is just lacking a little bit. For one it is not a counter to mon like MGyara, chomp and (protean or Ash-) gren, because they all commonly have coverage ice moves, and certain chomp sets can easily outspeed and ohko kommo. There are also numerous fairy types that are extremely prominent and fucking obliterate kommo, and many other bulky mon like tangrowth and skar can tank lots of what kommo throws at it, and defog its rocks. However, kommo isn't bad. Like you said kommonium is amazing, and the boosts make up for its speed and give its other stats a shot in the arm. Its typing is also amazingly offensively, and has ok bulk to switch in to fire, ice, electric and dark moves pretty comfy. I want the kommo rise as well.
Kommo-o counters the most common sets of MGyara and Ash-gren. They CAN run ice coverage, but in practice rarely do. Anyone saying Kommo counters chomp does not know the definition of counter, or even check. Best answer is that Kommo beats chomp after Kommo has setup.
I think one thing Kommo-O benefits from is that its sets are pretty orthogonal. Those fairies that "obliterate" Kommo don't like taking a poison jab or close combat repeatedly. Skarmory and tang are being obliterated by +6 thunder/drain punch. People figured out they could run rocks on this, and it still has a niche on stall.
Kommo-O is too good and too versatile to be languishing in C.
Kommo-o counters the most common sets of MGyara and Ash-gren. They CAN run ice coverage, but in practice rarely do. Anyone saying Kommo counters chomp does not know the definition of counter, or even check. Best answer is that Kommo beats chomp after Kommo has setup.
I think one thing Kommo-O benefits from is that its sets are pretty orthogonal. Those fairies that "obliterate" Kommo don't like taking a poison jab or close combat repeatedly. Skarmory and tang are being obliterated by +6 thunder/drain punch. People figured out they could run rocks on this, and it still has a niche on stall.
Kommo-O is too good and too versatile to be languishing in C.
After meditating upon this discussion topic, I am inclined to agree with your proposition about Kommo-O.
I should preface this post by saying, I very rarely use Kommo-O, and I find it to be quite gimmicky both in design, concept and usage. However, I have come to accept that SM OU is a metagame that is gimmick concentric, so I have to agree with you.
The versatility Kommo-O has is actually, quite underrated by most people, but overrated by you. You say that fairies don't like taking poison jab and close combat repeatedly, but is that really even true? In practice, you can't see Kommo-O moving around too much. It's not like the fairies are really pivoting around Kommo-O a lot and taking those cc's and poison jabs. More accurately (and more potently) I would say they are switching in and either forcing out a Kommo-O (usually rarer, as people prefer to get damage in that situation) or they are taking 60-80% damage. That's just one interaction, so you cannot call it "repeatedly."
With that out of the way, I think Kommo-O's real strength is running a variety of sets. One I've noticed more often recently is Ass-vest, or simply a normal special variant.
See, the reason why this variation is preferable to the standard boosting Kommo-O is that, in this situation, although the Fairies still provide quite a conundrum for Kommo-O (or as I like to say, a Kommo-undrum) it is able to take and receive a few hits, allowing it to pivot and pressure around with more leeway. Normally, in a simple offensive variant of Kommo-O, in the situation of a Kommundrum, it simply cannot take a hit at all, meaning that it's variability is rather on the lower end. This is not what I would call a 'gimmick' as opposed to the offensive variant. (Really, the discussion of what is gimmicky or not is rather pedantic, but I thought I would include it as I see it discussed rather often).
I’ve been wanting to bring this up a couple of days ago and now I finally got the time to do so. Do feel free to take this with a grain of salt.
I am not completely convinced the viability level of the Pokémon in the A ranks is defined properly. I feel like there is no space in terms of viability between the worst in A+ and the best in A and the same goes for the worst in A and the best in A-. Also, there is a huge gap between the viability of the best in A+ and the worst in A+ and the same goes for the A rank. And obviously, the fact that A+ has an amount of 5 mons while A counts no less than 13 is not a pretty face to look at. I think some A rank mons need to be allocated to another place in order to actually ‘separate’ and solidify the A-subranks.
&
to S
I am not going to elaborate on this too much, mostly because I don’t think this is happening either way. I do want to say that both have obvious S rank qualities and if they are played optimally, which we should assume when ranking mons, they are comparable to all of the S mons.
&
to A+
I don’t think anyone can justify these two nominations not happening. Greninja usage has exploded in SPL and that trend has continued in OUPL. I do not mean to be bold but right now, I consider Greninja to be better than Mega Zam and Torn-T due to the amount of respect it gets from team preview (and I’m factoring out Ash-Gren here) and the fact that it is easily one of the most splashable mons in offensive cores/builds. Garchomp on the other hand is by no means as versatile as Greninja but it is easily almost as splashable and definitely one of the most reliable rockers in the metagame, while having decent bulk and typing to somewhat patch up certain weaknesses. Also, Garchomp’s OUPL usage speaks volumes.
to A+
While Celesteela is definitely not as badly due for a rise as Greninja, it has only grown more and more in the Zygarde-less meta it enjoys. It’s a cornerstone in many balance builds that want to patch up the weakness to Zam and Lele and does so more reliably than Jirachi since Zam runs Shadow Ball most of the time. It also proves to be a very good blanket check to a majority of the metagame, being able to switch in to mons like Garchomp, Greninja, Bulu and Kartana, which obviously is priceless in Balance. It’s also able to chip things down pretty quickly with a combination of Leech Seed, Protect and eventual hazards. I think the utility of Celesteela makes it worthy of A+.
&
to A+
This might be subjective but I’ve found that Kartana and Tapu Lele (and Tapu Koko, but I think that is fine in A) demand a lot more attention from the teambuilding and team preview perspective than other threats in A. I am not saying that defaults them to A+ but both seem to completely take over games if the incentive (read misplay) is given. And both commonly run options in order to blow through checks, which makes them all the more scarier.
to A-
Magnezone in my eyes plays more of a supportive role for other mons and is not per se a standalone threat that warrants an A rank. It has certain matchup in which it can do its job properly, but if the foe’s team uses mons like Tran, Vest Mage or Jirachi as the defensive steel, it can’t do what it’s supposed to do. I am not saying it’s a sitting duck in those matchups since it can pivot around and somewhat lure grounds with Flash Cannon or Corkscrew Crash, it’s just that Magnezone is underwhelming in those matchups.
A- looks fine, but I would drop Reuniclus to B+ since it has been falling steadily ever since CM Acid Armor was discovered.
Hey guys im back lol, I didnt quit but ive been going trough a lot these past months, But im back & hopefully to stay & im going to try and do another VR post on my thoughts on the overall metagame & some of the rankings of mons
A>A+
C>C+
I think both garchomps are amazing & should rise, Rockium-Z Garchomp is one of the best Stealth Rockers in the tier & Mixed Mega Garchomp is a amazing set & has been really picking up a lot of traction, i would actually make Mega Garchomp higher but im not going to be that guy that suggests a mon rises like 2 ranks beacuase a mon gains traction so im going to wait.
A>A+
Heres 2 that i might get flame over but whatever, I think both Mega Tyranitar & Mega Latias are both extremely solid in the current meta, Stealth Rocks Mega Tyranitar is a excellent Stealth Rocker & Mega Latias adds so much for a team, Heatran check, Kartana check, SD Rockium-Z Garchomp check, Z Landorus check, or even a wincon becuase CM Mega Latias is also amazing atm CM Mega Latias also has really good mu vs common playstyles atm such as rain
B->B
B+>A-
Speaking about rain i think Manaphy & both Peliper & Mega Swampert should rise, Rain has been really prominent in the current meta and has been showing much success in tour & ladder recently as rain teams such as menci 's Azu rain has gotten decent ladder results iirc & was the team lax used to win the SPL tiebreak & win the tournament, & rain has been used all throughout SPL as players such as Blunder used a Gyarados rain & then a Manaphy rain during the finals, Charmflash & Ban Manaphy has also used rain during playoffs of spl.
C+>B-
Gallade is a pretty cool mon atm, has been used in SPL & OST recently & has showed success, SD Knock Off Mega Gallade is threatening to common defensive cores nowadays & its speed tier is pretty nice for a mon with its set up options and movepool, I think Gallade is pretty good rn & deserves a rise as its been gaining traction
thats all of the nominations i really wanted to say, I think mons such as Jirachi & Zapdos should also rise but these has been said already iirc & i dont wanna echo too many nom's
i've already made a bunch of nominations for the upcoming slate so i'll just give my opinion on the last few nominations brought up:
I originally nominated Tapu Fini for A- a handful of weeks ago, but now A feels a lot more reasonable. It's arguably one of the best Defoggers in the tier and provides invaluable support to a number of hazard weak Pokémon as well as allies that appreciate the utility of Misty Terrain. Tapu Fini is also one of the best Ash-Greninja switch ins because you can simply Defog all of its Spikes off, and it's nearly unbreakable alongside Healing Wish / Wish Jirachi. Also, speaking of Jirachi...
In a similar case of Tapu Fini, I nominated it for B+ initially, but I feel like A- as Finch proposed is also reasonable. The choice scarf set has established itself as one of BO's best Scarfers and Specially Defensive is also very nice on Balance as arguably the second best Magearna check on offer while providing Wish support which is very nice for teammates like Tapu Fini and Offensive Landorus-T.
Garchomp to A+ surely feels reasonable, after Landorus-T and Heatran Garchomp is arguably the best Rocker on offer, and it's also a deadly breaker between Swords Dance and Continental Crush, pretty hard to stop unless your name is Mega Latias or Choice Scarf Landorus-T. Also an offensive check to Heatran is always very welcome too, and Garchomp does a respectable job at that.
Rain as a whole has been used more and more including this SPL and has clearly established itself as a consistent playstyle. I was going to make this nomination but guess ske sniped me haha. Anyway A- surely feels much more accurate for the two mainstays of Rain, Pelipper and Mega Swampert. One of the best parts about rain right now, is that it has the tools to take on pretty much any playstyle, which really helps make it a consistent choice, the main type of team Rain really struggles with is Balances with Pokémon like Gastrodon and the very rare Mantine or Water+Grass defensive cores. All of which aren't all that common at the moment. As for Manaphy, B rank is surely deserved, but I'd go as far to say B+ rank feels more adequate in my book, it's clearly a step ahead of Kingdra in terms of viability and Rain's main tool against stall, with only Pyukumuku or Gastrodon variants being able to take it on, both of which are quite rare on the most common stalls.
Now this is a nomination of my own, I really think Volcarona is due a rise to A+. It's proven itself as one of the most threatening win conditions as most Fire resists in the current meta are vulnerable to Bug Buzz and just to display its prowess it got a whopping 80% win ratio this SPL. If that wasn't enough, Volcarona also provides an offensive check to notable wallbreakers in the current metagame such as Mega Mawile and Kartana. Current metagame is also very kind to it, Jirachi is setup bait and Tapu Fini while technically resisting both STAB moves actually loses 1v1 if Volcarona is at full health. It just feels like too great of a Pokémon and win condition to be only in A.
--> S rank
I know S rank already seems pretty full but I think its undeniable that Mawile is on the same league as other S rank mons such as magearna / ash-gren. From team preview it already applies immense pressure to all playstyles incl. offence and is able to run variations in its moveset (knock off / fire fang / thunder punch / ice punch) to get past all of its classic checks. It doesn't have a single counter in the tier and also provides good defensive utility with its typing and intimidate. I feel like a rise has been due for a while now considering the meta is so focused on BO rn which Mawile thrives in.
--> A+ rank
Normal gren is also a huge threat simply from team preview. A great spiker that has a plethora of sets it can run to take advantage of checks & counters that normally would switch in (i.e. z dig, z low kick, gunk shot etc). The fact that ash-gren exists also arguably makes normal gren more viable because you have to play against both completely differently and they have different checks & counters. A huge threat that I think matches the metagame prowess of A+ mons like mega zam and torn-t.
--> B+ / A- rank
Mega venu has seen a steamrolling increase in usage recently and for good reason. It soft checks a huge portion of the metagame and becomes such a nuisance with leech seed by helping to whittle down the opposing team. Checking Mega Mawile and Magearna is huge. Its sheer defensive utility and ability to fit on a variety of playstyles makes it definitely on par with B+ mons like mega sab in regards to defensive utility and arguably some A- mons like clef. Would be happy with B+ as opposed to A- as mvenu does have undeniable flaws like being caught out by hazards quite easily (hates spikes) and 4mms.
Echoing agreement for rises of Zapdos, Rachi, Chomp, Rain mons, Volc and Fini. Disagree on Toxapex for S. It simply doesn't check things as well as you would think. One dark pulse flinch on gren and it's all over.
Magnezone in my eyes plays more of a supportive role for other mons and is not per se a standalone threat that warrants an A rank. It has certain matchup in which it can do its job properly, but if the foe’s team uses mons like Tran, Vest Mage or Jirachi as the defensive steel, it can’t do what it’s supposed to do. I am not saying it’s a sitting duck in those matchups since it can pivot around and somewhat lure grounds with Flash Cannon or Corkscrew Crash, it’s just that Magnezone is underwhelming in those matchups.
I don't agree with this magnezone is really good rn because it traps so many good mons in the tier.Celesteela,pex and ferro are really common and specs zone can destroy these mons.Scarf jirachi has also risen in usage and having zone means it can never click iron head/body slam safely.It can also wall some magearna sets like bolt beam or tbolt flash canon.Offensive tran doesn't appreciate specs tbolt or z electric,vest mage takes damage on switch in and cant do much back unless its focus blast and usually magnezone's teammates appreciate magearna being weakened also it can trap jirachi and specs can out damage it or z can just sub on it
Hippowdon B -> B- View attachment 169276
I feel like this shouldn't be the same rank as stuff like Rachi and Gastrodon. Haven't seen this on any relevant replay/team lately.
The rise of Fini, Rotom-W and even Torn nerf it as a rocker. Any Lando Set rn (and even Chomp) just does much more than Hippo, making its niche much smaller as well.
I could be wrong tho
Jirachi should rise anyway, i'd say hippo is about as good as gastro. Both are kinda passive but have recovery and check the relevant shit that they need to; hippo is much better at keeping sand up than ttar is because smooth rock ttar is all kinds of ass. Regarding meta trends, while rotom-w and fini have been getting better, i'd argue excadrill and mega garchomp have been too, and hippo can help both of these pokemon be damn good.
The draco/fire blast/eq/rocks mchomp set is good and doesn't need sand, but with sand, mega garchomp is free to run SD or 4 attacks and be much better at just killing shit. Z-move SD exca 6-0s plenty of teams, a +1 z-move will blow away scarf lando-t and z-giga impact is great to blow away rotom-wash and zapdos while still nailing most of the kills z-iron head gets. Hippo enables both of these threats and is fine where it is, at home with mons like weavile and mega venu. I guess I wouldn't put it above smth like manaphy but thats been nommed for a raise (which i agree with) so its all good.
I strongly disagree with a drop, sand is an outstanding playstyle right now and I'd argue Hippowdon is just as good if not better than Tyranitar as a setter. Its far from the best rocker, but it can annoy Zapdos and Rotom-W with Toxic which on the long terms helps Excadrill quite a bit. Reliable recovery and checking many of the threatening physical attackers in the tier makes it well worth it and surely something every sand team should consider. It also forms a really good defensive backbone with Toxapex and Celesteela, which opens up some slots for more offensive Pokémon on the archetype. Hippowdon is better than 80% of the current B rank, and even then comparing it with Jirachi is very silly, as Jirachi should be B+ or A- by now.
Also, sand as a whole has received a lot more attention lately, as Srn pointed out, most notably in SPL, in which is was quite the dominant playstyle especially in the first few weeks. Here's a replay, for example, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-422564
Skarmoryto:UR
no one in the qc team has used skarmory at all (because of how bad it is) so we can't qc check its analysis, including the writer lol, therefore we'd like to nom skarm for ur so that it doesn't have to have an analysis, and if this nom doesn't go through i expect finch, talah, and abr to qc check skarmory, that's all, thanks and have a nice day!
for real though, skarmory is really bad, even on stall, i think at least a c- rank would be more reasonable than the current c rank, it's just extremely passive and an awful spiker and it obviously requires another steel because skarmory is just throttled by magearna, tapu lele, and mega alakazam. it does check a number of threatening pokemon like kartana, tapu bulu, and mega scizor, but other pokemon like zapdos provide so much more utility when checking these that it pretty much leaves skarmory in a terrible position.
I recommend lowering Alakazam-Mega from A+ to B-/B+.
We know that Alakazam-Mega is a powerful pokémon, with an extensive moveset and that allows him to strike Ghost or Dark type pokemon. It also has access to recovery and if desired, can be used with calm mind to make it much better. It has exaggeratedly high statistics like its special attack and speed, with 175 and 150 each. But it also has defects, such as, for example, that it is fragile on the physical side and also something fragile on the special side.
His moveset is usually 4 moves, but, as I said before, you can use calm mind or recovery, although this limits his abilities as an attacker, leaving him with 3 moves or 2 if you use the two mentioned above.
Alakazam-Mega's problems are varied, such as priority movements, of which there are many in OU: Scizor-Mega's Bullet Punch, Lopunny-Mega's Fake Out, Medicham-Mega's Fake Out and Mawile-Mega's Sucker Punch.
Another of their problems are the Pursuit users, like Tyranitar and Weavile. If Alakazam does not wear Focus Blast, he will be forced to change and the opponent will be able to predict with Pursuit.
Chansey is particularly one of his biggest problems, because she can resist Alakazam's movements and use Toxic or Seismic Toss.
Scarf users can also be a problem for Alakazam, such as Kartana, Landorus-T (which even without being scarf can resist an Alakazam hit and use Earthquake, calc below) and Greninja. Which can use attacks like Leaf Blade, Knock Off, Dark Pulse, Earthquake, among other moves that will do a lot of damage to Alakazam if they don't weaken him.
And finally, steel type Pokemon, because there are several steel type Pokemon that can resist a Focus Blast and return the hit. Celesteela, for example, resists the hit and can annoy Alakazam with Leech Seed or hit him with Heavy Slam (which weakens him, calc below), Jirachi can use Iron Head, Magearna can use Shift Gear and return the blows with Fleur Cannon or other moves and Scizor-Mega can use Pursuit or U-Turn.
Calcs:
252 Atk Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Alakazam-Mega: 267-315 (106.3 - 125.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Kartana Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Alakazam-Mega: 258-304 (102.7 - 121.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
244 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Alakazam-Mega: 249-294 (99.2 - 117.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 222-262 (69.5 - 82.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 131-155 (41 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Celesteela Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Alakazam-Mega: 184-217 (73.3 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 232+ SpD Celesteela: 119-141 (29.9 - 35.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 208-246 (29.5 - 34.9%) -- 12.8% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Psychic vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 118-139 (16.7 - 19.7%) -- guaranteed 6HKO
252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Magearna: 145-171 (48.1 - 56.8%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam-Mega: 223-264 (88.8 - 105.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Technician Scizor-Mega Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Alakazam-Mega: 130-154 (51.7 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 16 SpD Scizor-Mega: 161-190 (46.9 - 55.3%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Alakazam-Mega: 408-480 (162.5 - 191.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Focus Blast vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Mawile-Mega: 171-202 (64.7 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Alakazam-Mega: 391-462 (155.7 - 184%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 196+ SpD Jirachi: 124-146 (30.7 - 36.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Alakazam-Mega: 121-144 (48.2 - 57.3%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO
In conclusion, I think Alakazam-Mega is in a very high position in the Viability Ranking when it's not really that good.
i find this post really uninformed, no reasonable mega alakazam player will stay in on choice scarf users and priority users. and mega alakazam can wear down most steel-types and cripple chansey and the aforementioned steel-types with knock off. it provides great utility as a heatran check and it's a very powerful pokemon under the right hands. i completely disagree with the drop.
I recommend lowering Alakazam-Mega from A+ to B-/B+.
We know that Alakazam-Mega is a powerful pokémon, with an extensive moveset and that allows him to strike Ghost or Dark type pokemon. It also has access to recovery and if desired, can be used with calm mind to make it much better. It has exaggeratedly high statistics like its special attack and speed, with 175 and 150 each. But it also has defects, such as, for example, that it is fragile on the physical side and also something fragile on the special side.
His moveset is usually 4 moves, but, as I said before, you can use calm mind or recovery, although this limits his abilities as an attacker, leaving him with 3 moves or 2 if you use the two mentioned above.
Alakazam-Mega's problems are varied, such as priority movements, of which there are many in OU: Scizor-Mega's Bullet Punch, Lopunny-Mega's Fake Out, Medicham-Mega's Fake Out and Mawile-Mega's Sucker Punch.
Another of their problems are the Pursuit users, like Tyranitar and Weavile. If Alakazam does not wear Focus Blast, he will be forced to change and the opponent will be able to predict with Pursuit.
Chansey is particularly one of his biggest problems, because she can resist Alakazam's movements and use Toxic or Seismic Toss.
Scarf users can also be a problem for Alakazam, such as Kartana, Landorus-T (which even without being scarf can resist an Alakazam hit and use Earthquake, calc below) and Greninja. Which can use attacks like Leaf Blade, Knock Off, Dark Pulse, Earthquake, among other moves that will do a lot of damage to Alakazam if they don't weaken him.
And finally, steel type Pokemon, because there are several steel type Pokemon that can resist a Focus Blast and return the hit. Celesteela, for example, resists the hit and can annoy Alakazam with Leech Seed or hit him with Heavy Slam (which weakens him, calc below), Jirachi can use Iron Head, Magearna can use Shift Gear and return the blows with Fleur Cannon or other moves and Scizor-Mega can use Pursuit or U-Turn.
Calcs:
252 Atk Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Alakazam-Mega: 267-315 (106.3 - 125.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Kartana Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Alakazam-Mega: 258-304 (102.7 - 121.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
244 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Alakazam-Mega: 249-294 (99.2 - 117.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 222-262 (69.5 - 82.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 131-155 (41 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Celesteela Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Alakazam-Mega: 184-217 (73.3 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 232+ SpD Celesteela: 119-141 (29.9 - 35.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 208-246 (29.5 - 34.9%) -- 12.8% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Psychic vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 118-139 (16.7 - 19.7%) -- guaranteed 6HKO
252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Magearna: 145-171 (48.1 - 56.8%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam-Mega: 223-264 (88.8 - 105.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Technician Scizor-Mega Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Alakazam-Mega: 130-154 (51.7 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 16 SpD Scizor-Mega: 161-190 (46.9 - 55.3%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Alakazam-Mega: 408-480 (162.5 - 191.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Focus Blast vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Mawile-Mega: 171-202 (64.7 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Alakazam-Mega: 391-462 (155.7 - 184%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 196+ SpD Jirachi: 124-146 (30.7 - 36.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Alakazam-Mega: 121-144 (48.2 - 57.3%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO
In conclusion, I think Alakazam-Mega is in a very high position in the Viability Ranking when it's not really that good.
You didn’t tell us anything that’s changed to justify this. You literally just listed Alakazam’s weaknesses. And “you lose to darks if you don’t run Focus Blast” what Alakazam doesn’t run Focus Blast? Also, those calcs literally just tell us what we already know, physical scarfers can kill you. And Chansey is stall exclusive for the most part which is a matchup Alakazam loses without Calm Mind anyway. And Knock Off can cripple Chansey if it’s running it. This entire post doesn’t justify the drop at all, maybe learn a Pokemon’s niche before nomming a drop.
When nominating a Pokemon, do not merely list its obvious qualities such as stats, typing, movepool, etc. If you think a Pokemon deserves to rise or drop, explain what has changed in the meta to cause such Pokemon to get better or worse.
your post doesn't explain anything that has changed for Alakazam to become worse than it is/was, such as specific Pokemon being more popular/better, other breakers breaking into the mold that do its job better, etc.
if your argument is that the mon should have been ranked that high up, you're also not making near compelling enough points to warrant such a drastic drop.
i won't answer the obvious stuff, but i will attempt to deconstruct/answer your post as best as possible.
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His moveset is usually 4 moves, but, as I said before, you can use calm mind or recovery, although this limits his abilities as an attacker, leaving him with 3 moves or 2 if you use the two mentioned above.
this is not at all true; Alakazam has 3 mandatory moves, those being Psychic, Focus Blast and Recover. The 4th slot, aka the Shadow Ball slot, is the flexible one. Most teams will use Shadow Ball as it is the best catch-all it has for stuff like Reuni and Mega Latias. Instead of SBall, it can also run Knock Off, Calm Mind, Substitute, or HP Ice, albeit on specific teams. Due to the above,
Another of their problems are the Pursuit users, like Tyranitar and Weavile. If Alakazam does not wear Focus Blast, he will be forced to change and the opponent will be able to predict with Pursuit.
Alakazam-Mega's problems are varied, such as priority movements, of which there are many in OU: Scizor-Mega's Bullet Punch, Lopunny-Mega's Fake Out, Medicham-Mega's Fake Out and Mawile-Mega's Sucker Punch.
Which is true for...basically every offensive Pokemon. Unlike most offensive mons though, Alakazam has recover to keep itself out of range of all of those(except for Mawile). It's a complete strawman & doesn't really make any viable case.
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Chansey is particularly one of his biggest problems, because she can resist Alakazam's movements and use Toxic or Seismic Toss.
i said i won't answer the obvious but this is another huge strawman. Chansey walls literally every special attacker in the tier except Heatran and Keldeo and... Zam itself. In fact, Zam CAN beat Chansey when carrying either Knock Off or CM.
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Scarf users can also be a problem for Alakazam, such as Kartana, Landorus-T (which even without being scarf can resist an Alakazam hit and use Earthquake, calc below) and Greninja. Which can use attacks like Leaf Blade, Knock Off, Dark Pulse, Earthquake, among other moves that will do a lot of damage to Alakazam if they don't weaken him.
much like the priority case, this is true for virtually every offensive Pokemon, I mean, isn't this quite literally what Scarfers aim to do? This isn't a flaw unique to Alakazam, especially when Scarfers are the only reliable way of revenging it, whilst it itself can revenge nearly every non-scarf offensive mon in the tier.
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And finally, steel type Pokemon, because there are several steel type Pokemon that can resist a Focus Blast and return the hit. Celesteela, for example, resists the hit and can annoy Alakazam with Leech Seed or hit him with Heavy Slam (which weakens him, calc below), Jirachi can use Iron Head, Magearna can use Shift Gear and return the blows with Fleur Cannon or other moves and Scizor-Mega can use Pursuit or U-Turn.
again, like every offensive Pokemon, Alakazam isn't going to try to 1v1 its counters, it's going to try to chip them down on the switch. To show you why it's a very flawed argument:
"And finally, Grass type Pokemon, because there are several Grass type Pokemon that can resist a Hydro Pump and return the hit. Ferrothorn for example, resists the hit and can annoy Ash Greninja with Leech Seed or hit him with Power Whip..."
you can say this for every single offensive Pokemon in the tier. If you couldn't they'd be broken.
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it all boils down to misunderstanding what makes offensive Pokemon good & making arguments that have no actual in-game relevance or that are skewed against the Alakazam purposefully. Hopefully I explained well enough why your logic isn't correct & hopefully you can get better through this post.
You didn’t tell us anything that’s changed to justify this. You literally just listed Alakazam’s weaknesses. And “you lose to darks if you don’t run Focus Blast” what Alakazam doesn’t run Focus Blast? Also, those calcs literally just tell us what we already know, physical scarfers can kill you. And Chansey is stall exclusive for the most part which is a matchup Alakazam loses without Calm Mind anyway. And Knock Off can cripple Chansey if it’s running it. This entire post doesn’t justify the drop at all, maybe learn a Pokemon’s niche before nomming a drop.
Well, i can say that the recent rising of Jirachi really didn't help out Mega Zam, as all of Jirachi's sets could annoy Mega Alakazam one way or another. There's also AV ttar being seen a lot lately, but not as much as Jirachi.
However, besides that, I don't agree with a mega Zam drop. also half of the mons Windingsss mentioned are striaght up SPOOPED by Psychic terrain.
Skarmoryto:UR
no one in the qc team has used skarmory at all (because of how bad it is) so we can't qc check its analysis, including the writer lol, therefore we'd like to nom skarm for ur so that it doesn't have to have an analysis, and if this nom doesn't go through i expect finch, talah, and abr to qc check skarmory, that's all, thanks and have a nice day!
for real though, skarmory is really bad, even on stall, i think at least a c- rank would be more reasonable than the current c rank, it's just extremely passive and an awful spiker and it obviously requires another steel because skarmory is just throttled by magearna, tapu lele, and mega alakazam. it does check a number of threatening pokemon like kartana, tapu bulu, and mega scizor, but other pokemon like zapdos provide so much more utility when checking these that it pretty much leaves skarmory in a terrible position.
I sadly agree with this post, or at least would advocate for it dropping to C-. This generation has just not been kind to Skarm at all. I figured it might see an uptick in usage when Custap berry was released, but the April usage stats say otherwise.
Every single thing that Skarm brings to the table (spikes, defog, hazards, phazer, sorta fast taunt) can simply be done better by something else on both stall and hyper offense where you used to see Skarm. Not to mention that Skarm as a suicide lead just straight up loses to most leads anyway--even more so now that Garchomp is running Rockium Z and Lando-T is starting to run Rockium again too.
On stall, Skarm gives a lot of the biggest threats to stall like Mega Mawile, CM Pain Split Mag, and Reuniclus free set-up or momentum. On hyper offense, there just isn't a reason to use this a suicide lead over Exca unless you really need spikes (you don't). When offensive Pokemon make a better spiker than you, you know you're time in the meta is done.
I don't see Skarmory ever getting unranked. There are reasons to use it over Celesteela like it's access to Roost and Spikes. It also makes up part of one of the most successful teams of all time (Wish Killer)
It also sees pretty high usage on the 1825 Ladder Rankings (above Celesteela)
I just wanted to point that out because it's something most players here probably don't know about. I've seen Pokes get ranked for their success in certain teams (Pyukumuku) and I could go more into detail on why it should stay ranked, but I won't add anything more that hasn't already been said or can't just be looked up in the Smogon Dex
Skarmoryto:UR
no one in the qc team has used skarmory at all (because of how bad it is) so we can't qc check its analysis, including the writer lol, therefore we'd like to nom skarm for ur so that it doesn't have to have an analysis, and if this nom doesn't go through i expect finch, talah, and abr to qc check skarmory, that's all, thanks and have a nice day!
for real though, skarmory is really bad, even on stall, i think at least a c- rank would be more reasonable than the current c rank, it's just extremely passive and an awful spiker and it obviously requires another steel because skarmory is just throttled by magearna, tapu lele, and mega alakazam. it does check a number of threatening pokemon like kartana, tapu bulu, and mega scizor, but other pokemon like zapdos provide so much more utility when checking these that it pretty much leaves skarmory in a terrible position.
I have to disagree with this. As much as Skarmory is a lackluster mon in this meta because of how passive it is, meaning it is abused by Tornadus and VoltTurn (and so much more), as well as being specially defensively weak (which is bad for a mon like it) it does have a small niche, in being that it can mess with super physically orientated teams, walling mons like excadrill and offensive landorus that otherwise not much really does.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-410796. this replay is probably the best replay (in tours) i've seen showcasing what skarm brings to the table in SM ou, as opposed to celesteela (which is obviously a much better mon overall). here, it is able to wall the SD landorus and DD tyranitar for the entirety of the game, which were probably some of the biggest threats for tricking alongside greninja. now obviously this is one matchup, and as i said vs majority of offensively oriented teams skarmory will heavily struggle holding its own, and it is also a shit spiker. however, i would not say it is completely unviable, as it does have some purpose in certain matchups or vs certain mons that does not take it out of the picture.
I don't see Skarmory ever getting unranked. There are reasons to use it over Celesteela like it's access to Roost and Spikes. It also makes up part of one of the most successful teams of all time (Wish Killer)
It also sees pretty high usage on the 1825 Ladder Rankings (above Celesteela)
also replying to this because i couldnt tell if this was ironic but it was very dumb. 1) theres very little reasons to use it > steela, but there are some. not many tho. 2) wish killer is one of the worst teams in sm ou.
tl;dr dont make skarm UR, keep it low for sure though
I don't see Skarmory ever getting unranked. There are reasons to use it over Celesteela like it's access to Roost and Spikes. It also makes up part of one of the most successful teams of all time (Wish Killer)
It also sees pretty high usage on the 1825 Ladder Rankings (above Celesteela)
