Metagame USUM Pure Hackmons

[aidan amoongus]

We really should nuke this thread....
BUT before we do, we have some
HIGH LOW QUALITY AMOONGUSLOP!!!!!

In A Nutshell

In a nutshell, AMOONGUSLOP evolved off of a singular team built around two major ideas.
Generation 7 Pure Hackmons often revolves two major playstyles that are the only relevant playstyles - offense and stall. Stall is generally more difficult to pilot, so I was more inspired to build offense. As such, I built around two core concepts

- Innards Spam

- Leppa

Innards is an amazing ability that can be spammed on offense mons that are generally more frail, and Leppa Berry is great for reusing CFZs that famously only have 1 PP.

Below is a list of all my variations, more to come. I also included explanations.

Original Mold PDon

The original with Extreme Evoboost Moldy PDon which hits a lot of stuff. Catostrapika hits a lot including Celesteela and Slowbro-Mega .

Huge Power POgre

Same as original, but replaced with Huge Power Kyogre . Not so much a meme, Kyogre is not expected much as a attacking guy except for the one Smash Zap Plate Judgement self-proof set. Huge Power Searing Sunraze Smash hits stuff that isn't expecting it. This thing actually has a decent attack at 150, which I decided to utilize.

Simple Diancie

Just a meme. Simple lets you get to +4 and then you Mega Evolve for stats and Magic Bounce.

Original With Innards Xerneas

Original with Innards Xerneas .

HP Kyogre With Innards Xerneas

HP POgre with Innards Xerneas .

MG MMX Variation

Many people have been not scouting random physical attackers such as (Kartana , MMX , etc.) and just chucking Innards at them. MG MMX works as an Innards baiter and helps eliminate Innards easily. There is no Innards Xerneas version of this however because it is hard to imposter proof MG mons.

MG Kartana Variation

Same as MG MMX but with Kartana . It is Explosion because Imposter is annoying and you can just explode before it can come in.

Moldy Skymin Version

Just bad LMAO

 

[ANinjaDude]

ok now i see why people want usum ladder removed these people are psychotic

They'd still be psychotic even with ORAS over USUM, the same goes for all the dogshit sets on ladder. Those aren't created by the format, they're merely flavored by it.

Now, to move to a more productive topic, let's discuss my man Slaking. Got a problem? Slaking can and will solve it. It can be Innards, Magic Guard, Huge Power, Wonder Guard, and more. It can sweep teams, revenge mons, spam CFZs, change your tires, file your taxes, and do it all twice on Tuesday. Slaking can run any coverage move in the game, has STAB Extreme Speed, has bulk to spare, the HP to tank stuff like MMY Innards from full, the SpA to run mixed CFZs to snipe would-be walls, and the speed to be an immense threat with webs support or at +2. Evoboost 3a Slaking can pick and choose what beats it, and with even a little bit of support or tactical play, it can easily shred offense when given a single turn. 4a Slaking can also rip apart stall in a number of ways, such as fitting on coverage moves that shred through their WGs, using MG+Pursuit to remove Innards to let a different mon clean them up, or just being the different mon with HarvSlak(though HarvSlak is bad, so don't use it). You can viable run Liquidation, Thousand Arrows, Plasma Fists, Close Combat, Play Rough, Knock Off, and more, as coverage on your HP/Sweeper Slakings, and your opponent doesn't know what you have until you click it.

Now, you might be wondering, what is the point of all of this, am I just going to stream of consciousness yap about Slaking? The answers to those questions are respectively; I'm getting to it, and no. The primary goal of this post is to get people to consider alternative sets for Slaking, and maybe even use Slaking more on their teams.

The first thing that I would like to mention is how effective MG Slaking is, and I would like to request Magic Guard be added to the list of abilities on the VR.

The main reason to use MG Slaking over a different MG pokemon is that Slaking is a very versatile mon, and you can adapt the set to do anything you need, while also having good bulk. The main thing it has over other MGs like Deo-A and MMY are its bulk, which lets it run things like Extreme Evoboost sets, while still being able to punch through walls with CFZs or coverage, and destroy Innards. The main thing it has over Kartana as a MG is its bulk(again), and the ability to actually run mixed sets. It's also a better user of Spectral Thief, because it can't have buffs stolen back from it. This does come at the cost of not having a Spore immunity however, so you should decide accordingly. In addition to this, it also can run general-use tools like Extreme Speed, allowing you to snipe weakened offensive threats like NG users(specifically, Mosa, Deo-S, MMY, and MLop), general offensive threats like Smash users, and the sort, while also keeping Pursuit to punish Innards hard, and the capacity to tech in whatever you need for the situation.

The big reason to use MG Slaking over other Slaking sets is the reason I originally used it on my Slaking spam team: its checks are vastly different from other Slaking sets, and it can remove walls for your other physical threats like Kartana, MMX, Deo-A, Mosa, Slaking, etc.

Overall, I think that MG Slaking is an underrated pokemon that combines both anti-offense and stallbreaking capabilities quite neatly.

The second thing that I would like to bring up is that I feel that Slaking is an S- tier threat, and others agree, so I would like to nominate Slaking to S- on the VR, and Regigigas to A+, because I think Gigas is one subrank below Slaking.

In my opinion and my experience, Slaking is one of the best and most versatile pokemon in the tier, and I think that its place on the VR should reflect such. It might be slower than MMX or Kartana, but it sports an incredibly punishing priority option that makes it a very scary pokemon for offensive structures lacking Psychic Terrain. In addition to this, Slaking is still incredibly good at punishing fatter structures, because HP Sunsteel hits insanely hard, and Slaking can fit coverage for anything that would dare try to check it. In addition to Extreme Speed meaning offense has to be cautious of the sloth, and Sunsteel+coverage making stall sweat, Slaking can still run unorthodox strategies and sets effectively. As mentioned above, MG Slaking is a very versatile set, capable of either going fully offensive, being a setup sweeper, doing a bit of both, or doing its own thing entirely, and I think that's emblematic of Slaking as a whole. HP 4a is incredibly hard to wall, while HP Espeed can rip through offensive teams; Innards can keep up offensive pressure while still being able to trade with No Guard; MG can swiss army knife its way through whatever you need it to, whether that be Innards, common walls to your other mons, or weakened offense teams, while also having the potential to be a late-game sweeper that can just click Evoboost and win; WG has serious bulk, that can combine with Evoboost to be both an early-game RKer, and a late-game wincon, and I feel like that's just scratching the surface of Slaking's capabilities.

Overall, I think that each one of Slaking's sets is independently very threatening, and would be a B+ set at worst, but when you combine all of them, and add in how disparate the counterplay to each set is, I think that it more than makes the case for Slaking to S-.

P.S.: I will be back with some more VR noms later, and possibly a team to make Eyeos play, for the content.

 

[ZeldaFan1]

You can viable run Liquidation

Uhhh......no?

LIST OF MONS THAT ARE TARGETS FOR SLAKING LIQUIDATION

- Primal Groudon:
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Liquidation vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Groudon-Primal: 488-576 (121 - 142.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Thousand Arrows vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Groudon-Primal: 260-306 (64.5 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
You will notice that TArrows is somewhat competing with Liquidation, as most of the mons hit by Liquidation are also hit by TArrows. Keep this in mind. Liquidation kills, TArrows always 2HKOs, and with some chip it can kill.

- Ho - Ho
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ho-Oh: 334-394 (80.2 - 94.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Plasma Fists vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ho-Oh: 394-464 (94.7 - 111.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
BTW without +Def PFists always kills, and Liquidation still doesn't. Unlike Liquidation, PFists actually hit a chunk of mons, including Celesteela, Ho - Oh, POgre, MBro, AshGren, MGyara, and I guess Lugia. Keep this in mind.

- Steelix Mega
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix-Mega: 168-198 (47.4 - 55.9%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix-Mega: 178-210 (50.2 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
TArrows wins, and also Tarrows hits MAgg as well, while Liquidation only hit Steelix. As well, you probably should not be trying to break with a move like this anyway, as Sacred Fire is another move that is actually viable which hits both MAggron and MStellix harder.

- Diancie Mega
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Diancie-Mega: 320-378 (105.2 - 124.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Diancie-Mega: 340-400 (111.8 - 131.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Doesn't matter.
(Also PFists does 61-73% WTF)

- Heatran
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Heatran: 298-352 (77.2 - 91.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Heatran: 632-748 (163.7 - 193.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
No

- Aerodactyl Mega
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Aerodactyl-Mega: 380-448 (104.3 - 123%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Plasma Fists vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Aerodactyl-Mega: 446-526 (122.5 - 144.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
How did Liquidation almost not kill bro has 80 HP and 85 Def

- Houndoom Mega
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Houndoom-Mega: 334-394 (94.3 - 111.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Houndoom-Mega: 354-418 (100 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO
LMAO

- Marowak Alola
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Marowak-Alola: 320-378 (98.7 - 116.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Marowak-Alola: 340-400 (104.9 - 123.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
When you don't even kill Marowak guarenteed

- Excadrill
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 0 Def 0 IVs Excadrill: 816-960 (192.4 - 226.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 0 Def 0 IVs Excadrill: 862-1016 (203.3 - 239.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Fake ass Mon anyway

- Mamoswine
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mamoswine: 360-424 (84.9 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
This is the one and only Mon I found that Liquidation hits that PFists or TArrows doesn't hit, and it doesn't even always kill. Bruh

- Entei
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Entei: 380-448 (87.5 - 103.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Entei: 402-474 (92.6 - 109.2%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
Finally, some counterplay to Burn Up

So, that is what Liquidation can hit. Let's see what TArrows can hit:

LIST OF MONS THAT ARE TARGETS OF THOUSAND ARROWS AND ARE ALSO NOT HIT BY LIQUIDATION
- Gengar Mega
- Muk Alola
- Aggron Mega
- Doublade
- Volcanion
- Necrozma Dusk-Mane
- Solgaleo
- Dialga
- Metagross Mega
- Beedrill Mega
- Bisharp
- Magearna
- Mawile (Why is this in the VR WTF)

...uh...that is quite a few. Compare this list to the Liquidation version and:

- Mamoswine

So, is Liquidation viable?

NO
The only reason to ever run Liquidation is if these criteria are met:
1) Your team gets wrecked by PDon in a way that you need it dead in one turn instead of 2
2) Ho - Oh is a issue and you cannot run Plasma Fists for some reason
3) You cannot run TArrows
4) You need to be able to beat PDon and Ho - Oh in a single slot and don't care about anything else

Just run TArrows or Plasma Fists. Plasma Fists is actually good, and TArrows outclasses Liquidation on every Mon other then PDon.

Thank you for reading my TED talk.





(BTW yes I know that +Atk would make Liquidation turn more or those chance to OHKO into OHKO's, but I personally like +Spe when not running a stat boosting move, which it seems like this would be a four attack Slaking. TArrows still outpaces it.)

 

[ANinjaDude]

First of all, MBee is not hit by TArrows, and Ho-Oh is not hit by it either, so it should be added alongside Mamo.
Second of all, if you are improofing on WG Dialga, then TArrows is not a viable option.
Third of all, a couple of the mons on that list of TArrows but not Liquidation shouldn't be there. AMuk you just Sunsteel, and MGar is almost never WG, so you can just click Liquid into Liquid on it(or whatever other move you want).
Fourth of all, Liquidation can let you compress some of the benefits of Ground and Electric into one slot, and you specifically hit multiple very common mons in one slot. For instance, Sacred+Liquidation hits MSciz, PDon, Ho-Oh, Celesteela, MDoom, Kartana, and Heatran, which are all common WG users and Sunsteel walls. The only Sunsteel walls this misses out on that I can think of are Dialga(Rare), Volcanion(Bad), and POgre(Unfortunate to miss out on, but pretty easy to cover with rest of team). You could also run like PFists+Liquidation and only miss out on MSciz and Kart.

TLDR: The compression of hitting most mons that TArrows hits, while also sniping Ho-Oh in one slot is worth it with what is currently ran.

 

[Chessking345]

I have gone through the most recent posts in this thread to remove formatting and delete one-liners.
There have been several instances of consecutive poor quality posting in this thread, make better quality and effort posts that are productive and legible. There are also constant one-liners and double posting, you know who you are.
Further poor posting can be met with infractions.

 

[Rain]

Uhhh......no?

LIST OF MONS THAT ARE TARGETS FOR SLAKING LIQUIDATION

- Primal Groudon:
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Liquidation vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Groudon-Primal: 488-576 (121 - 142.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Thousand Arrows vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Groudon-Primal: 260-306 (64.5 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
You will notice that TArrows is somewhat competing with Liquidation, as most of the mons hit by Liquidation are also hit by TArrows. Keep this in mind. Liquidation kills, TArrows always 2HKOs, and with some chip it can kill.

- Ho - Ho
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ho-Oh: 334-394 (80.2 - 94.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Plasma Fists vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ho-Oh: 394-464 (94.7 - 111.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
BTW without +Def PFists always kills, and Liquidation still doesn't. Unlike Liquidation, PFists actually hit a chunk of mons, including Celesteela, Ho - Oh, POgre, MBro, AshGren, MGyara, and I guess Lugia. Keep this in mind.

- Steelix Mega
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix-Mega: 168-198 (47.4 - 55.9%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix-Mega: 178-210 (50.2 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
TArrows wins, and also Tarrows hits MAgg as well, while Liquidation only hit Steelix. As well, you probably should not be trying to break with a move like this anyway, as Sacred Fire is another move that is actually viable which hits both MAggron and MStellix harder.

- Diancie Mega
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Diancie-Mega: 320-378 (105.2 - 124.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Diancie-Mega: 340-400 (111.8 - 131.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Doesn't matter.
(Also PFists does 61-73% WTF)

- Heatran
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Heatran: 298-352 (77.2 - 91.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Heatran: 632-748 (163.7 - 193.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
No

- Aerodactyl Mega
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Aerodactyl-Mega: 380-448 (104.3 - 123%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Plasma Fists vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Aerodactyl-Mega: 446-526 (122.5 - 144.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
How did Liquidation almost not kill bro has 80 HP and 85 Def

- Houndoom Mega
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Houndoom-Mega: 334-394 (94.3 - 111.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Houndoom-Mega: 354-418 (100 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO
LMAO

- Marowak Alola
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Marowak-Alola: 320-378 (98.7 - 116.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Marowak-Alola: 340-400 (104.9 - 123.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
When you don't even kill Marowak guarenteed

- Excadrill
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 0 Def 0 IVs Excadrill: 816-960 (192.4 - 226.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 0 Def 0 IVs Excadrill: 862-1016 (203.3 - 239.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Fake ass Mon anyway

- Mamoswine
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mamoswine: 360-424 (84.9 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
This is the one and only Mon I found that Liquidation hits that PFists or TArrows doesn't hit, and it doesn't even always kill. Bruh

- Entei
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Entei: 380-448 (87.5 - 103.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Huge Power Slaking Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Entei: 402-474 (92.6 - 109.2%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
Finally, some counterplay to Burn Up

So, that is what Liquidation can hit. Let's see what TArrows can hit:

LIST OF MONS THAT ARE TARGETS OF THOUSAND ARROWS AND ARE ALSO NOT HIT BY LIQUIDATION
- Gengar Mega
- Muk Alola
- Aggron Mega
- Doublade
- Volcanion
- Necrozma Dusk-Mane
- Solgaleo
- Dialga
- Metagross Mega
- Beedrill Mega
- Bisharp
- Magearna
- Mawile (Why is this in the VR WTF)

...uh...that is quite a few. Compare this list to the Liquidation version and:

- Mamoswine

So, is Liquidation viable?

NO
The only reason to ever run Liquidation is if these criteria are met:
1) Your team gets wrecked by PDon in a way that you need it dead in one turn instead of 2
2) Ho - Oh is a issue and you cannot run Plasma Fists for some reason
3) You cannot run TArrows
4) You need to be able to beat PDon and Ho - Oh in a single slot and don't care about anything else

Just run TArrows or Plasma Fists. Plasma Fists is actually good, and TArrows outclasses Liquidation on every Mon other then PDon.

Thank you for reading my TED talk.





(BTW yes I know that +Atk would make Liquidation turn more or those chance to OHKO into OHKO's, but I personally like +Spe when not running a stat boosting move, which it seems like this would be a four attack Slaking. TArrows still outpaces it.)

I few month ago I have suggested a break my team thread for pure hackmons and no one answered me now ts is all over the place
this is not gonna be a one liner im gonna re introduce the idea of break my team later when I got time

 

[PenultimateToast]

I HATE THIS THREAD I HATE THIS THREAD I HATE THIS THREAD I HATE THIS THREAD

miscellaneous meta thoughts


fimp ltbts is the one good mmx set everything else is usually mid. strong prio + being able to nuke anything in one hit are both insanely valuable, for example in this game after houndoom died there wasn't much stopping me from just clicking ltbts twice and nuking 2 mons for free. other sets don't really have as much flexibility as this one, good vs offense because of strong fimp and ltbts is just good vs everything. i don't like other sets much because they either struggle more when breaking if you drop ltbts or are worse into offense if you're dropping fimp.


definitely the best special wall wg but my main problem with it is that it wants 5 moves a lot of the time. you need healing, really want all of mcoat for ng/arc, specthief to actually check mons, bpass for pursuit, and defog for hazard control (plus defog + mcoat is just good in general). obviously you can't fit that so you have to sacrifice something, usually i end up dropping defog. still like it more than maud though cause maud just doesn't check mmy that well (the main special threat you'd like to check), and while pursuit/u-turn weaknesses do suck i'd much rather take weaknesses to those rather than taking 70 from +2 mmy photon (also run specthief on your audinos)


in a bit of a weird spot rn. while it can be extremely scary with proper support + lack of prep, a lot of teams are prepping for it rn (prep isn't too difficult either) and its flaws are becoming more apparent. wouldn't call it bad though, if it can get hazards up it can be extremely difficult to stop once its checks are gone, plus it offers nice role compression as well (wg sweeper, geist switch in, sunsteel/geist check). harvest and maybe prank/support wg should probably be experimented with


perish trap honestly isn't bad. wouldn't call it great but probably underrated nowadays, you can actually remove a good amount of mons plus if you fit hazards you can get those up very reliably as long as you trap the right mon. not great vs stronger setup sweepers though, requires a decent amount of support if you want to trap things reliably and justifying the teamslot is somewhat difficult. still think it should be used more (same with stag in general, idk why people stopped using it)


midlord 5000. ng sets are trash unless you're scarf because you just lose to mmy and like half the point of ng is to be speed control, and everybody's running mcoat nowadays so you're bad into wgs. scarf is ok cause you bait mmy and get to click fissure into it, though it's nothing more than ok. huge power is fine though it's not something i'd run much, should be mentioned on the vr though

 

[ANinjaDude]

I told you I'd be back, and guess what, I'm back. I'm here to tell you why I think Zygod is overhyped and is not as good as people say it is. In other words, I would like to nominate Zygod to drop to A-.

Now, you might be saying to yourself, "But Ninja, Ransei says that Zygod can just invalidate many pokemon, and it beats all these physical threats and yada yada yada." My answer to that is that these are the beliefs of an old man, whose judgment is clouded by visions of past glory. Zygod is a fine defensive pokemon, but it has multiple weaknesses, and the current meta is not kind to those weaknesses. First of all, we've seen a lot of CFZ spam mons rise, which is not something that Zygod likes to handle, because Zygod's entire thing is being bulky through having a fuck ton of HP, and that is cancelled out by the fuck ton of BP that CFZs have. Second of all, the types of teams that are viable are not what Zygod likes to see, for multiple reasons.

First up is Offense, which Zygod can fit on, as a Prankster mon, but not as the same sort of Prankster, and it certainly isn't the only pokemon that can do this, nor is it a required role on these Offense structures. It doesn't see a massive surge in viability from Offense becoming more viable, rather, it sees the opposite. It is simply not a great piece on these structures in my experience, and with how good Offense is, that translates to a hit to Zygod's viability. Combine that with most offenses packing insanely hard-hitting mons like HP Kart, HP Slak, ClangSoul Tina/Ray/KyuW/etc, NG mons, multi-CFZ Psychics like MMY, HP MMX, Deo-A, etc, and this is not the sort of thing that Zygod likes to deal with. It just can't out-bulk things, and most Offense teams will end up either punching through it, or grinding it down. To summarize this section, Zygod is just another replaceable, non-essential pokemon on Offense, and a victim of Offense, and the rise in Offense hurts it accordingly.

Secondly, we have Balance. Balance is a topic that is hotly debated in the PH room, in the thread here, and in the PH Discord. Some people maintain that Balance is still a viable archetype, but in my opinion(and the opinion of most I've talked to), Balance is dead, and Offense is dancing on its grave. Zygod was a classic Balance pokemon, that was able to leverage its bulk to help anchor defensive cores, but it doesn't matter how good it is at anchoring a team if the team itself is never going to be good. I don't really have anything else to say here, because the entire discussion of "is Balance dead" is for a different time, but I believe that with the death of Balance, Zygod has lost one of, if not its largest homes.

Finally, we have Stall, which is the archetype where Zygod is the most valued, and is the least replaceable. The biggest draw I've seen for using Zygod on stall is its ability to be a Magic Bounce mon that has some serious staying power. It can probably run a Prankster set too, but in my experience with Stall(I'm new to stall, so I'd need Eyeos Child of Night ReSolaris to fact-check me here), MBounce is much more important on Stall than Prankster, because Prankster fills the same sort of "anti-setup" role that things like Innards and Imposter fill, and as such, Prankster isn't necessarily vital. MBounce on the other hand, is a lot more important, especially with Rocks-weak mons like Ho-Oh, Yveltal, and Volcanion(Fraud) being used on Stall. Zygod is one of the best MBounce mons for this role, but even with that, it is not without its limitations. It is my belief that Stall ultimately is the most fragile archetype, and the one that is easiest to hard-counter. I think that Stall is still viable, mind you, but that the most extreme parts of the HO-Stall spectrum are the most fragile in this regard, because they are one-dimensional. Balance is less easily counter-teamed in my experience, but it has other issues dragging it to the bottom, so it will be left out of this discussion. HO is less easily countered than Stall is in USUM PH, simply because it's harder to fully counter CFZs than it is to just run multiple mons that can hit the entire stall team for SE. In addition to this, there are only two other defensive mons above A-, Maud and Melo, and I think that Zygod should be dropped to where the rest of its stall and defensive brethren are, A-. There is already precedent for stall-specific pokemon being limited to A- at best, and I think Zygod is no different. To summarize my thoughts on the matter of Stall and Zygod, I believe that while Zygod is very good on Stall, and Stall is viable, there are issues holding back both Zygod and Stall as a whole, which hurts Zygod's viability heavily.

To tie this all up into one neat package, the summary overall is that 1) while Zygod might be good in a vacuum, the balance of power between team archetypes has shifted towards the archetype that Zygod is not very good on, and is the weakest to, and 2) The rise in viability and overall usage of Stall is not of a viability boost for Zygarde to stay in A+.

 

[Rain]

I told you I'd be back, and guess what, I'm back. I'm here to tell you why I think Zygod is overhyped and is not as good as people say it is. In other words, I would like to nominate Zygod to drop to A-.

Now, you might be saying to yourself, "But Ninja, Ransei says that Zygod can just invalidate many pokemon, and it beats all these physical threats and yada yada yada." My answer to that is that these are the beliefs of an old man, whose judgment is clouded by visions of past glory. Zygod is a fine defensive pokemon, but it has multiple weaknesses, and the current meta is not kind to those weaknesses. First of all, we've seen a lot of CFZ spam mons rise, which is not something that Zygod likes to handle, because Zygod's entire thing is being bulky through having a fuck ton of HP, and that is cancelled out by the fuck ton of BP that CFZs have. Second of all, the types of teams that are viable are not what Zygod likes to see, for multiple reasons.

First up is Offense, which Zygod can fit on, as a Prankster mon, but not as the same sort of Prankster, and it certainly isn't the only pokemon that can do this, nor is it a required role on these Offense structures. It doesn't see a massive surge in viability from Offense becoming more viable, rather, it sees the opposite. It is simply not a great piece on these structures in my experience, and with how good Offense is, that translates to a hit to Zygod's viability. Combine that with most offenses packing insanely hard-hitting mons like HP Kart, HP Slak, ClangSoul Tina/Ray/KyuW/etc, NG mons, multi-CFZ Psychics like MMY, HP MMX, Deo-A, etc, and this is not the sort of thing that Zygod likes to deal with. It just can't out-bulk things, and most Offense teams will end up either punching through it, or grinding it down. To summarize this section, Zygod is just another replaceable, non-essential pokemon on Offense, and a victim of Offense, and the rise in Offense hurts it accordingly.

cfz spams are viable but on the other hand it gets a lot harder for you to improof your own mons which is a somewhat ignored issue smh. offense is indeed good but zygarde can also be an offensive piece with trap+psong or no guard+ohko moves or even innards out and prank bond. And zygarde is not a replaceable mon by any means. You cant find another mon with this level of bulk, and the typing which is usually ignored is actually pretty good, for you have only dragon and ice and fairy weaknesses, while best move for ice is a 90 bp move, dragon type moves are easily blocked by any wonder guard , on top of that cl soulblaze give you an extra boost besides the huge damage, making you even harder to improof your mon especially in offense teams, fairy seems to be way more concerning due to the good coverage and ability to hit on dark type wgs which tend to be a rather good choice as wg, the fact that fairy have only lsnf, light of ruin, prough and moonblast being common viable choices hurts a lot, for the bulk of zygarde can tank a lot of unboosted hit by those and immediately hit back with a fissure. Pixilate diancie sucks into imp and wgs

Secondly, we have Balance. Balance is a topic that is hotly debated in the PH room, in the thread here, and in the PH Discord. Some people maintain that Balance is still a viable archetype, but in my opinion(and the opinion of most I've talked to), Balance is dead, and Offense is dancing on its grave. Zygod was a classic Balance pokemon, that was able to leverage its bulk to help anchor defensive cores, but it doesn't matter how good it is at anchoring a team if the team itself is never going to be good. I don't really have anything else to say here, because the entire discussion of "is Balance dead" is for a different time, but I believe that with the death of Balance, Zygod has lost one of, if not its largest homes.

i never thought and never will say balance is good, those who know me will find me sticking to ho/offense/bo since 2024, I dont quite know about this part but I don't really know why are we judging a mon by how common it is in the team types and weight the team types, like first of all team types are ambiguous in ph, how would you call a full innards team when they have smash mmy and stuff? and mons aren't really being sticken to specific team types, for example no one stop you from running no guard shell smash meloetta or smash pass maud

Finally, we have Stall, which is the archetype where Zygod is the most valued, and is the least replaceable. The biggest draw I've seen for using Zygod on stall is its ability to be a Magic Bounce mon that has some serious staying power. It can probably run a Prankster set too, but in my experience with Stall(I'm new to stall, so I'd need Eyeos Child of Night ReSolaris to fact-check me here), MBounce is much more important on Stall than Prankster, because Prankster fills the same sort of "anti-setup" role that things like Innards and Imposter fill, and as such, Prankster isn't necessarily vital. MBounce on the other hand, is a lot more important, especially with Rocks-weak mons like Ho-Oh, Yveltal, and Volcanion(Fraud) being used on Stall. Zygod is one of the best MBounce mons for this role, but even with that, it is not without its limitations. It is my belief that Stall ultimately is the most fragile archetype, and the one that is easiest to hard-counter. I think that Stall is still viable, mind you, but that the most extreme parts of the HO-Stall spectrum are the most fragile in this regard, because they are one-dimensional. Balance is less easily counter-teamed in my experience, but it has other issues dragging it to the bottom, so it will be left out of this discussion. HO is less easily countered than Stall is in USUM PH, simply because it's harder to fully counter CFZs than it is to just run multiple mons that can hit the entire stall team for SE. In addition to this, there are only two other defensive mons above A-, Maud and Melo, and I think that Zygod should be dropped to where the rest of its stall and defensive brethren are, A-. There is already precedent for stall-specific pokemon being limited to A- at best, and I think Zygod is no different. To summarize my thoughts on the matter of Stall and Zygod, I believe that while Zygod is very good on Stall, and Stall is viable, there are issues holding back both Zygod and Stall as a whole, which hurts Zygod's viability heavily.

stall is fundamentally flawed due to the fact of existence of cfzs and the access to every move in the game for every piece of mon, stall is basically a impostor centered archetype thats very based on the mu like I said a million times already. And stop asking me on discord why are you saying against zygarde youre supposed to support it, like its nothing personal (which should have been so fuking obvious) and I want to find the truth. stall is close to inviable and sucks, and zygarde is indeed a huge part of it but it doesnt really matter atp.

To tie this all up into one neat package, the summary overall is that 1) while Zygod might be good in a vacuum, the balance of power between team archetypes has shifted towards the archetype that Zygod is not very good on, and is the weakest to, and 2) The rise in viability and overall usage of Stall is not of a viability boost for Zygarde to stay in A+.

zygarde is good in a vacuum and out of a vacuum. the meta hardly changed since 2025

 

[Wyrd]

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SAMPLE KILLER KILLER KILLER KILLER KILLER KILLER 676700 today!

​

https://pokepast.es/10a8826dfd87502a

Here's a basic how to guide:

you beat the sample killer 6700 by using heatran as usual,
you beat the sample killer killer 6700 by leading rayquaza and clicking earthquake, which is a 93.8% roll but if you miss it you just eq again,
you beat the sample killer killer killer 6700 by leading rayquaza and clicking operetta,
you beat the sample killer killer killer killer by leading rayquaza and clicking menacing moonraze maelstrom,
you beat the sample killer killer killer killer killer by leading rayquaza and clicking stormshards.



Even better, you can theoretically beat ALL of these teams AT ONCE with only 3 mons! Simply leverage your Heatran to beat the sample killer 6700, your rayquaza to stag and kill the pdon that kills your first heatran, and don't get outplayed (if you get consistently outswitched your opponent can get hazards up, chip down rayquaza, and you lose). The way to prevent this would of course be to simply use a magic bounce that can take on Mamoswine to block rocks, but since it isn't strictly needed I didn't strictly include it.

Have a great day, and happy cteaming! I think I just said killer more than the average DBD streamer.

To make this not entirely focused on meme cteams I've been using https://pokepast.es/1f660029d7a52578 and https://pokepast.es/ba83d2bcf9695633 recently and the mmy version is just outright outperforming mmx.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2528877345 pika team gets fried

I also tried https://pokepast.es/3f3960fde64213dd and can comfortably say that Rockinium Z is not Groudon's best item.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2514714677

it would be really silly if anyone could make a 1-2 mon cteam for these teams :lickylicky: to spice things up

Ngl i feel like this coulda been done alot easier. U rly need a whole other mon just for my jask??? I cant be bothered to post another sample killer tho. Someone else should tho-this needs to continue till v10 is a thing

 

[ANinjaDude]

cfz spams are viable but on the other hand it gets a lot harder for you to improof your own mons

Not really, it's fairly easy to improof most CFZ users.

zygarde can also be an offensive piece with trap+psong or no guard+ohko moves or even innards out and prank bond.

The only one of these sets that's actually good here is Prank bond (which I mentioned btw), but Innards zyg is just ass and perish trapper is ass.

zygarde is not a replaceable mon by any means.

It is though, that's the problem. Its bulk and typing is good, but it doesn't do anything that makes it a must-include on offense teams. It's just a generic mon that can be used on offense, but it isn't vital for offense's success, nor is it even a S tier mon on offense.

i never thought and never will say balance is good

It isn't you I'm referring to with this, don't worry.

I don't really know why are we judging a mon by how common it is in the team types and weight the team types

I'm not weighing it by how common it is on a team type, I'm weighing how good it is on the team type. It was pretty good on balance, but balance is really bad now, so that shouldn't matter in terms of viability. It's middling on offense, but it is by no means a staple or a must-have, so it should be tiered accordingly.

zygarde is good in a vacuum and out of a vacuum. the meta hardly changed since 2025

The meta has changed though, that's the issue.

 

[Mewtwo's Greatest Soldier]

cfz spams are viable but on the other hand it gets a lot harder for you to improof your own mons which is a somewhat ignored issue smh.

offense is indeed good but zygarde can also be an offensive piece with trap+psong or no guard+ohko moves or even innards out and prank bond.

Trap + Psong zygarde struggles hard in my experience you really only trap 4a guys that aren't especially strong because fat guys will pivot out and setup muscles through (there's still a lot of ladderers prepping ice shard or w/e for prankzyg like this is 2024)

NG zygarde is a bo1 cheese set that would probably just be better being anything good with NG. I guess it's bulky.

Innards zygarde what does he even do? When would you ever prefer this over guzzlord, who actually dies to attacks?

Prankbond is one of the prank sets that ninja mentioned that fits on offense. It's nice but not needed.

Overall, this point does nothing to dispute ninja's argument that offense is king and zygarde can sort of fit on it but isn't needed. Resorting to niche sets like innards zygarde does NOT make it an A+ tier mon.

And zygarde is not a replaceable mon by any means. You cant find another mon with this level of bulk

and the typing which is usually ignored is actually pretty good, for you have only dragon and ice and fairy weaknesses, while best move for ice is a 90 bp move, dragon type moves are easily blocked by any wonder guard , on top of that cl soulblaze give you an extra boost besides the huge damage, making you even harder to improof your mon especially in offense teams, fairy seems to be way more concerning due to the good coverage and ability to hit on dark type wgs which tend to be a rather good choice as wg, the fact that fairy have only lsnf, light of ruin, prough and moonblast being common viable choices hurts a lot, for the bulk of zygarde can tank a lot of unboosted hit by those and immediately hit back with a fissure.

Ok so this is actually kind of a wall of text, but the main points here are that zygarde has weaknesses to uncommon types that are usually easy to beat. Unfortunately, they actually aren't. Clangsoul users are not getting walled by WG 9 times out of 10, and in terms of improofing

Ice is a weak type, but you totally forgot Ice Hammer and with boosts or naturally high attacking stats ice move users WILL break zygarde. HP MMX ice shard does over half! That's a 40bp move. Fairy is definitely concerning. Yes, zygarde can tank most of these attacks unboosted, but it will almost surely die to the second hit. Sash is a super common option, and WE are not running fissure zygarde with a priority move like what does he even do. Giant WG victim even worse than the diancie you mentioned. At least dia has 160 mixed attacks to slap WG with.

i never thought and never will say balance is good, those who know me will find me sticking to ho/offense/bo since 2024, I dont quite know about this part but I don't really know why are we judging a mon by how common it is in the team types and weight the team types, like first of all team types are ambiguous in ph, how would you call a full innards team when they have smash mmy and stuff? and mons aren't really being sticken to specific team types, for example no one stop you from running no guard shell smash meloetta or smash pass maud

that's a lot of words to say nothing. A full innards team of offensive mons is offense, chanspam is likely an aggro stall, etc. And then we go on to mention unsets. Smashpass maud seems fun though. I know I'm having a lot of fun with the akira bellykiss prank kart with baton last to turn MG slaking into a demon (+6 252+ Atk Life Orb Slaking Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 547-645 (86 - 101.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes)

Anyways this doesn't make any point so moving on

stall is fundamentally flawed due to the fact of existence of cfzs and the access to every move in the game for every piece of mon, stall is basically a impostor centered archetype thats very based on the mu like I said a million times already.

eh. Stall is pretty good. I like the funny innovations, and I totally prefer impless stall because I'm a masochist. Still, this says nothing.

stall is close to inviable and sucks, and zygarde is indeed a huge part of it but it doesnt really matter atp.

Stall is a matchup fish but it's a very threatening matchup fish. I know CoN, Yourself, Resolaris, etc have beaten scads of good players with stall. However, I wouldn't call it consistent into good players (its super consistent into ladder slop). selfglaze btw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2481232436
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2481256158

checkmate stalliberals.

On the other hand

stall is close to inviable and sucks

the meta hardly changed since 2025

The meta has changed drastically since 2025. CoN stall became a thing, balance got slaughtered repeatedly, the rise of Arceus, Gengar, Slaking, even MMX starting to fall off are all massive changes since the beginning of last year. This is such an unserious take.

 

[Rain]

View attachment 806537




Trap + Psong zygarde struggles hard in my experience you really only trap 4a guys that aren't especially strong because fat guys will pivot out and setup muscles through (there's still a lot of ladderers prepping ice shard or w/e for prankzyg like this is 2024)

tell me where are your 3 other slots for baby what are they there for, they are for YOU to counter the guys you want to counter. With the immense bulk you get to tank a ton of hits and with imprison uturn or taunt you easily got to trap the fat guys, with spec thief you punish the setup guys, and with ssap you can 1v1 a lot of the 4a/3a attackers.

NG zygarde is a bo1 cheese set that would probably just be better being anything good with NG. I guess it's bulky.

you didnt say sht here

Innards zygarde what does he even do? When would you ever prefer this over guzzlord, who actually dies to attacks?

the point is you got a super health trader that usually gets 3hkoed and sometimes get ohkoed by the no guards or ice types/lor/clsoulblaze in which case you take them down with you.

Prankbond is one of the prank sets that ninja mentioned that fits on offense. It's nice but not needed.

I never said its needed, actually nothing is needed

Overall, this point does nothing to dispute ninja's argument that offense is king and zygarde can sort of fit on it but isn't needed. Resorting to niche sets like innards zygarde does NOT make it an A+ tier mon.

ok so if a mon is not NEEDED on offense it doesnt deserve to be A+? tell me how is chansey or blissey needed when eggless offense exists right there

View attachment 806538



Ok so this is actually kind of a wall of text, but the main points here are that zygarde has weaknesses to uncommon types that are usually easy to beat. Unfortunately, they actually aren't. Clangsoul users are not getting walled by WG 9 times out of 10,

and in terms of improofing

View attachment 806539

this is why I said people care so much less about improofing then they should.Innards chansey is a big momentum loser and can be getting in tons of traps and people are just bad and dont prepare for it

Ice is a weak type, but you totally forgot Ice Hammer and with boosts or naturally high attacking stats ice move users WILL break zygarde. HP MMX ice shard does over half! That's a 40bp move.

and here comes the willosisp/reflect zygarde lol. Also pulling out the best mon and wall breaker in the game and tell me that it can break a wall doesnt make the wall bad

Fairy is definitely concerning. Yes, zygarde can tank most of these attacks unboosted, but it will almost surely die to the second hit. Sash is a super common option, and WE are not running fissure zygarde with a priority move like what does he even do. Giant WG victim even worse than the diancie you mentioned. At least dia has 160 mixed attacks to slap WG with.

no guard zygarde have great ultility refer to my no guard vr I have explanation on that im gonna repost it here later. Its supposed to be beating ho you dumbass

that's a lot of words to say nothing. A full innards team of offensive mons is offense, chanspam is likely an aggro stall, etc. And then we go on to mention unsets. Smashpass maud seems fun though. I know I'm having a lot of fun with the akira bellykiss prank kart with baton last to turn MG slaking into a demon (+6 252+ Atk Life Orb Slaking Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 547-645 (86 - 101.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes)

Anyways this doesn't make any point so moving on

eh. Stall is pretty good. I like the funny innovations, and I totally prefer impless stall because I'm a masochist. Still, this says nothing.

what are you doing here

Stall is a matchup fish but it's a very threatening matchup fish. I know CoN, Yourself, Resolaris, etc have beaten scads of good players with stall. However, I wouldn't call it consistent into good players (its super consistent into ladder slop). selfglaze btw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2481232436
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2481256158

I dont call any of them good players, neither you or myself, and even if its a good player playing stall doesnt mean stall is good im tired

checkmate stalliberals.

On the other hand



View attachment 806543



The meta has changed drastically since 2025. CoN stall became a thing, balance got slaughtered repeatedly, the rise of Arceus, Gengar, Slaking, even MMX starting to fall off are all massive changes since the beginning of last year. This is such an unserious take.

the only change is the fall of balance, stall never was and never will be a thing. Arc is massively used by cscl back to 2023 and mmx never fell I got nothing to say here

 

[ANinjaDude]

tell me where are your 3 other slots for baby what are they there for, they are for YOU to counter the guys you want to counter. With the immense bulk you get to tank a ton of hits and with imprison uturn or taunt you easily got to trap the fat guys, with spec thief you punish the setup guys, and with ssap you can 1v1 a lot of the 4a/3a attackers.

You don't really counter any of them particularly well though? Imprison U-Turn is fishing for the pivot move to be U-Turn, and not BPass to a Ghost or Parting Shot, it does nothing about Shed Shell, etc. Spec Thief does nothing about the Normal-type setup mons that can boost and smash through you (like HP Evoboost Slak or Protean Smash MMY). SSap doesn't even 1v1 a lot of mons well, because stuff like SpA mons will either not give you a lot of HP when you sap, or will be able to boost their SpA to the point of an OHKO. HP mons can do stuff like HP LTBTS and just kill you before Sap ever comes into play, etc. The issue that Gloomstalker is trying to get at is that Perish Trap Zygod doesn't really do anything that well, and is overall a very subpar mon and set, as I hope you can see from the counterexamples I've provided.

the point is you got a super health trader that usually gets 3hkoed and sometimes get ohkoed by the no guards or ice types/lor/clsoulblaze in which case you take them down with you.

The issue with this is that it kinda struggles immensely with what you actually want your Innards to do. Innards are supposed to have a lot of HP left when they are taken down, and Zyg doesn't do that except when hit with NG or HP CFZ or heavily boosted things. It's going to fail to actually bring down a lot of mons because it'll survive a hit at low HP, then die to the follow-up, and only do like 30% with Innards. This is in addition to Zyg just not being able to exert pressure offensively, so people can largely ignore it or whittle it down, while not caring about what it's doing. It isn't clicking multiple CFZs like a MMY or Tina-O, it isn't clicking strong STABs like Xern, etc. It just kinda can be ignored until your opponent chooses to pop the Zyg, which is not something you want your Innards to do.

ok so if a mon is not NEEDED on offense it doesnt deserve to be A+? tell me how is chansey or blissey needed when eggless offense exists right there

I love the smell of a strawman in the morning. The point being made here is that Zyg isn't very good on offense, but it does not have any other team style it's good on. It isn't even that Zyg is not necessary on offense, it's a second or third string mon that is outclassed by a fair amount. Combine this mediocrity with there being no balance to boost Zyg's viability, and stall's flaws, and there's no reason for Zyg to be in A+. It simply does not do enough on any non-stall style anymore, and the stall-specific mons are lower, so Zyg should be lower.

this is why I said people care so much less about improofing then they should.Innards chansey is a big momentum loser and can be getting in tons of traps and people are just bad and dont prepare for it

Innards Chansey is not a momentum loser if you use it right lol. Put shit like TSpikes on it and the opponent doesn't like letting it stick around, give it BPass+Scarf and it can dodge a lot of Suit Traps, give it Trick+Scarf and it can cripple a mon, etc. You are greatly underestimating the versatility and flexibility of Innards. Also, it can often be hard to fit preparation for Innards, so there is that.

and here comes the willosisp/reflect zygarde lol. Also pulling out the best mon and wall breaker in the game and tell me that it can break a wall doesnt make the wall bad

Wisp+Reflect Zyg is bad, it's been bad for ages. It's entirely the wrong type of Prankster to use, because it's a turbo passive one. It also doesn't do anything about stuff like Lum, Psy Terrain, etc. Now, for the second part of this, MMX is not the best mon or wallbreaker anymore. It is mid as fuck rn, and it greatly struggles into a lot of teams, while also being kinda annoying to fit on most teams, as ReSolaris can attest to.

no guard zygarde have great ultility refer to my no guard vr I have explanation on that im gonna repost it here later. Its supposed to be beating ho you dumbass

I don't even want to deal with this shit rn, slow No Guards are only viable from surprise factor, and it's not going to do anything vs people who know what's up.

the only change is the fall of balance, stall never was and never will be a thing. Arc is massively used by cscl back to 2023 and mmx never fell I got nothing to say here

Stall is somewhat viable, simply because it is capable of beating a lot of teams on preview. It has the issue of not being able to cover everything, and it being fairly easy to tech for any given stall team, but that doesn't detract from its capability to beat a lot of teams on preview. As for MMX, it fell off insanely hard, and I honestly don't know why you still think it's not fallen off.

 

[Rain]

im gonna quit this conversation we are bring no statements outside of no one use it or this thing beats that and all them are low qualitied. chessking or whatever mod if you see this please delete the previous threads along with this one thank you

 

[Eyeos]

Do you hate the current samples? Do you have a team you want immortalized? Do you think your team building is better than everyone else? Well I have some news for you

SAMPLE SUBMISSIONS ARE OPEN (for now)

To reduce some of the spam we got from the last time we did this there’s a big change to note

MAXIMUM ONE SUBMISSION PER PERSON!

If you want to change the sample roster you need to make your one submission count. If you submit your funny Bewear team then that’s it you don’t get an other chance Bewear is all you get.

If you don’t plan on submitting a sample you probably shouldn’t submit your Bewear team anyway. It delays the rest of the council and might mean we don’t have enough time to fully grasp the good teams.

Samples will likely be updated around the same time ladder switches.

 

[Rain]

sample submission

Gen 7 Thread '[Pure hackmons] Smurf HO feat. pure hackmons'

Feb 5, 2026

Smurf HO

​

Personal things

I was long time known as the No 1 cscl glazer as he was the one who literally introduce and let me had fun in this metagame. And for long I was trying to chase after him, to follow his steps, and apparently I failed on that. I am not capable of just looking at the moves and mons and abilities and just come up with a brand new solid set. So this year I decided to give up on that and just use the good old sets. It originally ended up as an outdated bulky...

• Rain
• Replies: 0
• Forum: Past Gen Teams

• 
• 

 

[Wyrd]

https://pokepast.es/025b552f96e86d56
My sample submission.
If yall want a detailed post I don’t have time to give one due to being very busy atm but basically, slak can annoy and revenge kill, deo s is a fairly standard suicide lead, triage mray i find is very good on offense for the extra prio, mmx breaks some stalls (yes this team is weak to stall im sry) arceus is just always a nice offensive wg on these teams and gira is a soft proof for mmx/slak, aswell as innards just being great.
EDIT: i changed team name since slak is now lum and gave slak a nickname
https://pokepast.es/0baff2320bd32c2e

 

[lag=bad]

going to finally throw innards out spam into the ring



Team has very few consistent counters that aren't direct Cteams, with really the only super negative matchup I've found being Stalls with innards out + a taunt stag trapper. Team is incredibly simple and linear to pilot, and is very easily adaptable for whatever shifts in meta happen.

 

[Child of Night]

Sample submission

Triage Mray Offense


https://pokepast.es/9dc31103d07338af

Pretty cool team I have been cooking up for a while that has been doing really well on ladder and in friendlies since early 2025. Has a decent shot to win against every archetype while staying consistent against random ladder BS if you play well enough. Psysurge MU can be tricky since Mray probably won't do much there, but it is playable since you have Arc and Hoopa.
Unrelated alternate versions

 

[PenultimateToast]

submitting wg smash don + mg suit ashgren offense for samples

not much to say aside from the ashgren, stole the set from cscl cause it looked cool. other than that you beat offense with the power of mg suit + prot mmy + gigas + scarf imp + wg smasher. kinda weak into fissure but you have outs with your sashes + scarfposter + prio so it's not awful, could go mcoat ferro if you're worried about that. also pinch berry hp normals are cool as fuck

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2533875505
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2508799244
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2520151529
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2517335581

 

[Mewtwo's Greatest Soldier]

why not

submitting larp balance for samples



It's not exactly the best team. Actually it's kinda mid. But there's a lot of outplay potential, you have a decent stall mu thanks to bounce pivot + offense guys, and your anti-offense is decently strong. Also, I don't have anything better to submit :lickylicky: and it would be nice for eyeos to have a meloetta team to play with.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2518596098
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2514629004
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2514696179
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2514726731
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2514734331
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2514739583-4i5k3ft3pv4b3binkco7jwt3edr95irpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2515308854
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2515311844
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2515317265

beat bullsht!!
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2515325319-5opq7p7fjd3ibxa99fdip3t63rtf3kdpw

every team can get goobed by brokens....
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2515305398

anyways this probably doesn't deserve sample but it doesnt have four mons permawalled by balloon muk or an instant lose matchup into imp gigas instead you have no mmx switchin. if we're being real the only team that's genuinely good and not just mediocre here is innards spam by lag is bad. Yourself release the mamoswine

 

[Yourself]

Yourself release the mamoswine

sample submission: mamoswine stall



the big mamoswine stall. to make ransei happy: this team went 31-0 on ladder with as far as im aware the fastest 90 gxe on ladder, i'm not the only person who was using this on ladder as well (i've faced akyrosi using it and i've seen other people mentioning facing the team), and because it has the funny mamoswine it attracts new players or whatever. for people who don't care about that stuff, i will leave replays against competant players below. this is also the first double innards stall.

LADDER WILTED ROSE EMOJI

i went 31 games before losing, but i don't have that screenshot so you'll have to take my word that i won another 2 games. as far as im aware, this is also the fastest 90 gxe on the usum ladder.

replays

replays below:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2486855031-0t0xigleht7hqxstnps67ptp9eoqss6pw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2486989226-yeox88u2tw856hwcui3nnfcxef7u4njpw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2486995695-cchgi2pkr1ljdvfkxhp2hk2l8gbw7rwpw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2486948603-v09ei6r4k290teptshtq8n74yodq9d2pw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2489506428-7mgc01dt4uex2tq39xxrh075lyl70edpw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2487387990

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2487364622

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2487434819

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2492264890-beak2ofrs20h4hai120g9rxu2cbl1ujpw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2492941577-8c7a8imeghwfafho6ye0rqfo3xi9f98pw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2504354620-7ud2xqmv3tagluwoooxvfi2dnue6slopw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2519446309-7iewhyah71tbgki2k5ll1d0vj84c7c4pw


https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2490887193-m4pfrc3mo6kbgpvqxa8r8raq2cesybupw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2528781375-g349q5ptfw7k56y1pkwb5unqhqiajo0pw

there's more but im bored of searching "replay" in my history and clicking random ones until a game with mamo stall comes up so this i'm not doing anymore.

bad matchups

this team manages to have a good matchup into many teams in this metagame, however like every other team it has its bad matchups which i will go over here.



because of ho-oh, rock setters who can get past mamoswine can be can issue, however with mcoat maud you can play around them and they are not an auto loss. there will probably be a replay or 2 showing this. rock setters who get past mamoswine include ng mgar with mgeist as opposed to zap cannon, ng with inferno, ng with horn drill, fissure paired with pursuit, and mold breaker.



3 guys you need to use innards on. the most obvious example of this is triple mmx because ignoring the innards the team has 0 mmx answers, tho outside of that this is does not happen very often because ho-oh checks sunsteel lacking cfzs or electric. this could also be pursuit guy (like slak) + 2 guys you need to innards, but this is even more rare (i've never even faced it) and you can probably outplay considering it's playing mindgames on scarf innards and you can remove it by getting imposter in and using pursuit a couple of times.



magic guard pursuit. it's not as much of an issue as you would think thanks to max defense innards + scarf timid baton innards but you aren't still completely safe from it. the only magic guards i've seen that can trap it are jolly kartana (it needs jolly to outspeed scarf innards) and deo a.



magic guard sweepers with perfect coverage. i wouldn't really be that worried about these, as magic guard sweepers are rare to begin with, and perfect coverage is even rarer. the most common ones are i think pdon (who ho-oh can usually wall because that guy likes freeze dry), and deo a who maud and ho-oh can stomach a hit from to spectral.

drifblim

i am not submitting this version as a sample, but i think it's worth noting. drifblim is a viable option over innards chansey on this team because with scarf baton it is much tricker to trap, sometimes being able to die to special attackers is actually preferable, and you have mamoswine to (hopefully) keep rocks off. i have actually won games with this too which you will see in the replay section this is not just a funny thought i had.

 

[ANinjaDude]

It's your boy Ninja, here to tell you why MMX has fallen off, and is not S- like a few people say it is. To put it plainly, I am nominating MMX to A/A-.

Let's start by looking at the sets MMX can run: Mold Breaker, Magic Guard, Innards Out, Huge Power, and Magic Bounce are all abilities I've seen used on MMX before, so let's go through them one by one.

1. Mold Breaker: Fraudulent lead because it's slow as balls and no other point to run Moldy. UNVIABLE.
2. Magic Guard: Decent for sniping Innards, but it's done better by multiple other mons(Kartana, Slaking, MMY, Deo-A, etc). OUTCLASSED.
3. Innards Out: Everyone else is underrating this set, but it's nowhere near good enough to bolster MMX's faltering viability. B- SET.
4. Huge Power: This one I'm going to split into two types of HP mons; The CFZ Spammer, and The Coverage Fisher.
   1. The CFZ Spammer: This set is actually pretty good, but I'll go into its flaws and shortcomings later. POSTPONED
   2. The Coverage Fisher: I'd rather use a multitude of other HP Coverage Fish mons with more attractive traits. OUTCLASSED
5. Magic Bounce: What does bro even do. WHAT DOES BRO EVEN DO?

Now, to get into my issues with the CFZ spam set, it is undeniably an incredibly powerful offensive set, but that's kinda it. It's a one-trick pony that doesn't like dealing with Offense because the other team will have multiple mons that will outspeed and OHKO it. It is super good at killing stall, but stall just throws Innards at the problem and unless you have multiple other stallbreaking mons on your team, you've made little progress. Even if you remove Innards with a different mon(Like a MG Pursuit mon, a 2nd HP mon, etc), and MMX is able to rip the team apart, it's not a trait unique to MMX. There's a lot of mons and sets that can just 6-0 stall with Innards out of the picture, and MMX is just one of them. Combine this with many of the other mons having utility that MMX lacks, like Slaking having STAB Espeed to threaten Offense, Kartana having STAB Sunsteel and a Spore immunity, and it paints a bleak picture for MMX. It's certainly good at doing what it does, but what it does is not unique, and MMX just doesn't have the flexibility to do other things, unlike the other mons competing for the slots.

 

[GhastlyPixie]

I guess I’ll throw my hat in the ring with these sample submissions.

Pretty standard offensive team that has proven to be consistent for me.
https://pokepast.es/8a44a1e878ee3194

Against Ptoast:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2518756456

Against Eyeos:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7purehackmons-2518765063


I don’t seem to have saved many other replays I’ve had with this team but it has proven to work fairly well for me.