Metagame USUM UU - General Discussion & Trends Thread!

So I made a post about a week ago and I thought of some more things that could be interesting to discuss. Like I said in my last post, the UU meta is in a really nice spot right now but in all iterations of UU metas, there have been these stand out pokemon that really dominate the meta. Clefable and Keldeo in one of the earliest metas. Mega Latias before it was banned. Xurkitree and Hawlucha on veil. Now we have some of these notable mons and more, but in the current meta what are the stand out pokemon that really define the UU meta right now? I'm gonna give my opinion on objectively the most meta defining pokemon in UU and for good reason.


This one should really be a surprise to no one. Scizor since it came to UU has been one of the best pokemon you can choose, and as the meta has changed, it has only gotten better. Base 130 attack, Priority in Bullet Punch, Technician to boost said priority, U-turn, coverage, and to be honest what does this not have that you would want. It's a great check to a lot of the threats in UU, and honestly if this happened to leave, UU would spiral out of control, it would be an even greater affect than Gliscor's departure. It has many sets that it can run, but to make this not run on, the biggest are: Swords Dance, and Band. It has many variations of its swords dance set from moves, to item. It is strong, it is bulky, and while it has mediocore speed at best. These speed problems are fixed through its priority. The next asset Scizor has that backs up the 70/100/80 bulk is the bug/steel typing. This has only one weakness, a 4x effective fire type attack, but it also provides many many resistances. A total of 8 resistances and 1 immunity. It has so much defensive utility while not being passive at all. This is a trait that can be seen in a few of the other choices on this list. Being able to preform as a utility mon, a sweeper, a breaker, or a momentum generator, Scizor does the job well. This metal bug has cemented its place as one of the best pokemon in UU and I doubt that will change. There has even been some controversy and conversation of, "Is Scizor suspect/banworthy?" which to be honest, I don't know. It won't be a topic for this but it's avoided the suspect radar unlike other pokemon, and is still here today.


Togekiss, the oddly shaped evolution of Togetic and Togepi. A fairy/flying type with great bulk, great ability, recovery, and surprise potential. This has such an amazing movepool, and while most of the moves are not used, it does give togekiss a surprise factor that some other pokemon don't have because of that. Though it has it's most common set in NP stallbreaker, it does have other options; Offensive Nasty Plot [Typical nasty plot runs HP instead of Special attack] with Fightinium-Z Aura Sphere, Babiri Berry steel lure, utility, scarf, specs, etc. Now Togekiss has the ability Serene Grace, which doubles the effect that moves have and Togekiss gets access to Air Slash, a move that has a 30% chance to flinch. Due to this ability, this 30% chance becomes a 60% chance to flinch. So with max speed and a respectable base 80 speed for a pokemon with 85/95/115 bulk. So most things that don't outspeed it have a very good chance of getting flinched. This becomes even more annoying if it is paired with Thunder Wave, which decreases speed by 50%, and has a 25% chance of making the opposing pokemon unable to move. This combination leaves Togekiss truly countered by very few things in the meta. It can also check a plethora of pokemon in this meta due to it's fairy typing, such as the likes of hydreigon, krookodile, and kommo-o. It also is able to break past the tiers best defensive threats through the use of boosting, flinching, it's coverage, and more. One of the best stallbreakers/wallbreakers, many underutilized sets, great coverage [if used], togekiss adds a lot to a balance/bulky offense team in terms of role compression. Togekiss I strongly believe is one of the best pokemon right now, while not on the same page as scizor, it is still one of the most meta defining.


Mega Manectric, the electric doggo. In my opinion, the face of the volt turn playstyle in UU. This does mainly one thing, but it does that one thing damn well. It's fast, it pivots, it chips, and its good. For real though, this is one of the fastest unboosted mons in the meta only second to the likes of Mega Sceptile, Beedrill, and Aerodactyl, a base speed of 135 reaching 405 total speed. Before mega evolving, it has the ability Lightning Rod which can allow it to pivot into potential electric moves and gain a special attack boost at the same time. Post mega evolving, it gains the ability intimidate, which lowers the attack of the opponent allowing some defensive utility from this pokemon. It's main stab in thunderbolt and volt switch, and coverage options in flamethrower, hidden power ice or grass, and signal beam. While not as great of a movepool as the previous two, it does what it does well. Being able to check the prevelant scizor due to access to a fire move, intimidate, and the electric typing resisting it's bullet punch. Hippowdon is the most reliable counter to manectric that can block its volt switch. There isn't as much to say with manectric due to really only having one set, but it does that set well. Volt Turn is a very prominant playstyle in UU for a reason, and mega manectric is a big part of that.


Oh Hydreigon, why are you so good? This is probably the pokemon that has risen the most out of any to prominence, being considered to join the likes of Scizor in terms of viability, consistancy, and versatility. This can fit on almost any playstyle, from hyper offense to stall. Not many pokemon can do that, and in terms of stats it does not disappoint. 92/105/90/125/90/98 are it's stats, very respectable bulk, speed, attacking power, it has everything it needs. It also has access to strong, spammable attacks, great coverage and movepool, reliable recovery in roost, and a great offensive typing. Dark/Dragon is nothing to scoff at only being stopped by the fairy types of the tier and strong special walls. Now, we go into the sets and it is easiest just to list them off: Choice Scarf, Choice Specs, Z-Move Defog, LO attacker, Taunt Roost, and Z-Belch lure. These are the main sets and it is almost always a special attacker. It can gain momentum from U-Turn, fire off powerful attacks, take hits and recover them off, prevent status and hazards with taunt, Hydreigon is just good. The thing that really sucks for it is the very awkward speed tier, just under base 100 which leaves it outsped by the tiers top fighting types which can kill it [If not choice scarfed]. It can be taken advantage of if locked into dark pulse, and it has its counters that keep it in check. By no means is Hydreigon leaving any time soon, and just like in ORAS, Hydreigon is taking the spot as one of the top dogs of the meta due to all the new moves it got in USUM.


I talked about Krook in my last post, so I won't go into as much detail as before but it is 100% meta defining with the role it can play on a lot of teams. This is a side note but I love the tail in the sprite, Krook gonna get ya. Anyways.. As said in the last post, quickly becoming one of the best scarfers, pursuit trappers, manectric checks, knock off users, intimidater. Okay, I said a lot of it, but it has so much role compression, the perfect amount of offense and defense that just makes it so great. Just its usage in snake shows this, it is the most used pokemon in snake right now by a landslide. Definately deserving of it's spot on this list.
[This is very important. S/O to Adaam for this wonderful Majors Discussion Poster, use it now]


After the important announcement, last but not least we have Latias. The other S-rank mon alongside scizor. There has been a bit of discussion about Lati earlier so i'm going to make my own points while also mentioning a bit of what was said before. I agree with aim about Lati. While yes there are many reasons why Lati may have seemingly have gone down in viability, such as the prevelance of so many dark types, mamo returning, klefki and empoleon becoming much more viable once more. In my opinion, the most important reason being Mega Steelix rising over Mega aggron in a sense as the better Lati counter. Though these are all becoming more common, Lati has not gotten worse by any means and is still a PAIN to deal with. 80/90/130 bulk with 110 special attack and speed, these stats are nothing to laugh at. It provides so much utility to a team due to its speed tier and many options due to the great movepool it has. Its best set currently is Calm Mind with Electrium-Z Thunder, which lets Latias blow through the common checks in aggron, empoleon, klefki, etc. All of its calm mind sets are viable right now and it checks so much due to the typing and bulk. Also with access to recovery, such as I said for other pokemon on this list, makes it just that much better. Great move coverage, bulk, and utility, Lati is clearly at the top of the meta and a force to be reckoned with. There isn't much to be said, while it does have it's not as common scarf set, I feel that doesn't deserve as much clear mention as Calm Mind, because that is what makes Lati so scary to me.

Now, these are my choices for the pokemon that rule the UU meta, and without them it would be different. This isn't the only thing I would like to talk about in this post and that are some interesting picks in UU that either: surprised me by its viability when used or rose to prominence when it was otherwise looked down upon previously.


The first big one I want to talk about is Gligar. Boy has this guy surprised me. When Gliscor was in the tier, there was no reason to use gliscor as it was more versatile, had a better ability, and didn't have to worry about losing its item. Once Gliscor activated its toxic orb, it was there to stay. Whereas Gligar relies on Eviolite to get its incredible bulk. 65/105/65 stats in bulk where the defense and special defense get boosted by 1.5 until it loses the item via Trick, Knock Off, etc. Gligar is INCREDIBLY BULKY. Being able to check the likes of Terrakion, Cobalion, and Infernape, the very scary fighting types and hit back with its stab earthquake. A reliable mon that can beat almost any rocker in the tier, a typical set running Defog, Earthquake, Roost, and Toxic. Though on a team of mine, originally run by TDK [I believe] is curse gligar. Curse allows gligar to beat pretty much any physical set up sweeper in the tier 1v1, and hell, even after it switches in, due to increasing its already high defense, with eviolite and one curse, it already matches the x2 attack with its down "x2.25" defense. Another very good reason to use gligar is manectric's lack of using HP ice due to gliscor, its evolution rising to OU. This lets it become one of the lost, if not the most reliable check to Mega Manectric alongside hippowdon, once again, hoping that it doesn't have HP Ice.


Another very cool pick in the current meta. I haven't been able to mess around with it much but i've been meaning to build a team with it. A great check to fighting types, mainly cobalion, lucario, and infernape. It usually runs colbur which allows it to lure and will-o-wisp dark types such as krook, and daunt, or a scizor trying to trap it. With recover in it's arsenal, good bulk, a good ability in water absorb, cool options like hex to play along with will-o-wisp. It's just, a cool mon right now, it has been having tons of success in the current meta and i'm hoping to give it a try. If anyone who has used it could say more what it does better than me, it'd be appreciated. I just wanted to mention Jellicent as no one has done it yet.


Another fun and interesting pick, nihilego has been gaining a lot of traction as a counter to prominent fire types like togekiss and moltres, a reliable rock setter, with great coverage in Thunderbolt, Grass Knot and cool options such as pain split and acid spray. A great offensive rock setter, a great general attacker with the ability to spiral out of control due to its ability beast boost. If it has the right moves, it can stop things that would usually beat it. Two jellyfish that should be given a try. Also sadly haven't used this one yet :psygrump: I need to use more different mons.

That's pretty much it for this, another long one with a lot to read and talk about. What pokemon dominate the meta and what are some cool options that are worth giving a try on a team? I feel there are a lot of unique options that haven't been tried in this meta, and being discovered such as Jellicent being as good as it is, or Diancie turning out to have a solid niche. What have you people out there found? Also if you feel like something is missing, I may have written about it in my previous post. If you got through all of my blabber thanks for reading it :blobnom: and I hope you guys enjoyed.
 
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So after watching some tournament games and replays, I just wanted to share some mons I've thought were cool and also mons I just generally wanted to talk about.

celebi.png


Celebi @ Psychium Z
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Nasty Plot

Shiba vs TDK: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7uu-394520

Psychium Z Celebi is a cool set. Dazzling Gleam is for Dragons such as Latias and Hydreigon that would otherwise wall you. Psychium is cool because most of the steels that you miss out on by not running Earth Power get nuked by Z-Psychic at +2.


crawdaunt.png


Crawdaunt @ Choice Band
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Crabhammer
- Aqua Jet
- Knock Off
- Superpower

Harris vs edi0n g1: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7uu-400340

Crawdaunt is nasty. CB Daunt pretty much nukes anything if it manages to get a free switch in. In the replay, Crawdaunt gets 4 kills, even OHKOing a Colbur Berry Reuniclus with ease. It also Aqua Jets its way into victory on the last few turns. Definitely a mon more people should watch out for.


blastoise-mega.png

Blastoise-Mega @ Blastoisinite
Ability: Mega Launcher
EVs: 104 HP / 252 SpA / 152 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Aura Sphere
- Rapid Spin

Ah, good old mega turtle. I actually used turtle here quite a lot pre-shifts, but then shifts came along and Venu dropped and yeah. Anyway Venu is gone now (thank goodness for that), but people still seem to forget turtle. Don't have a tour replay for this one since it pretty much every one it got 2 kills and then died, but in most of the games it was in it posed a major threat. I'm not the biggest fan of spin atm, but considering Alt has fallen out of favor recently, losing Ice Beam isn't too bad.


diancie.png


Diancie @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Moonblast
- Diamond Storm/Power Gem
- Toxic/HP Fire/Heal Bell
- Stealth Rock

Diancie @ Choice Specs
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Power Gem
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Harris vs edi0n g2: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7uu-400341

Diancie is literally a hidden gem. When I nommed it for the VR a few months ago, I expected it to go about as high as C or C+ and not rise any further. When shifts dunked on it with Venusaur and ironically its own mega, I believed that it would fall out of favor. However, with both of those mons banned, Diancie seems to have rose in tour play. While rocks is the set most people seem to be flocking to, I believe Specs can also work. I haven't figured out an optimal EV spread besides just max max. The moves are pretty self-explanatory on both sets. Toxic's the best on rocks Diancie imo so that you don't lose to NP Heal Bell Togekiss, but Heal Bell was used in the game above and if you don't want Scizor to come in then HP Fire also works.

terrakion.png


Terrakion @ Choice Band
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide/Quick Attack/Toxic

Pak vs Manipulative: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7uu-392883

Terrakion is a monster and I can't believe I disagreed with it rising on the VR. This thing has next to no switch ins besides something like Palossand. The set is pretty self-explanatory. Toxic is a cool last option for the aforementioned Palossand and also non-rest Slowbro. In the replay, Terrakion claims 4 kills and also discourages Hydreigon from clicking Dark Pulse.
 
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Sage

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Darkinium_Z_Dream.png
Fightinium_Z_Dream.png
Firium_Z_Dream.png
Steelium_Z_Dream.png



Hydreigon is a fantastic Pokemon right now, I don't think anyone would doubt this. With a plethora of great sets like Scarf, Specs, Offensive Defog, and Taunt, its established itself as a premier threat. However, I also think that it isn't really being used to anywhere close to its full potential offensively. Particularly on Defog sets, there is a huge amount of room for optimization to your team and not just settling for the standard STAB coverage. Dark Pulse is almost necessary on any Hydreigon as it is usually needed to properly answer massive threats like Slowbro, but Draco Meteor is often not the only choice on a Defog set. I've experimented with Darkinium, Fightinium, Firium, and Steelium in the Z-slot, with all of them having some form of merit.

Black Hole Eclipse, while being a slightly weaker nuke than Devastating Drake, doesn't have to worry about immunities in Fairy-types, giving you more options for when to execute it. It also pushed through some Steel-types much more easily, particularly when they have Wish support you can surprise them with Z-Dark instead of a Dragon move. This is I believe the midground of Z crystals, not quite the best in most matchups but never going to be useless.

All Out Pummeling catches a ton of Hydreigons checks for great damage, in particular hitting Empoleon and Cobalion, while also getting neutral damage on Klefki. Dark / Fighting is fantastic neutral coverage, and I think this is probably the most potent of the Z-crystals I've been testing with Hydreigon. In my Snake game with robjr I was able to showcase this set very nicely.

Corkscrew Crash is a more direct way to pressure Fairy-types than Hydreigon typically has access to (Z-Belch is still an ok option but on a Defog set I do not like being forced into only one move after the Z is used.) Dark / Steel hits most of Hydreigons checks well, only missing Cobalion (which is admittedly an annoying one to not hit well).

Inferno Overdrive is much more niche than the options above, but I believe it still has merit. It is almost unheard of, leading to easy executions in practice. It can patch teams struggles to break through cores like Slowbro / Amoonguss, and also retains Fairy-type neutral coverage. Running Firium is also a way to Spike proof your teams as Defog Hydreigon can struggle to keep hazards off when Klefki or Chesnaught can check it (the latter very softly).

It is still important to keep in mind that specializing your Hydreigon can make it worse as a check to some Pokemon like Mega Sharpedo and these are things you must account for in teambuilding. I don't think that's a knock against these other options though, what I really want to get across is that players should be more cognizant of what they want their team to be covering, and to think of how offensive synergy can be maximized. Offensive Synergy is often forgotten when compared to Defensive, and thinking about things like the coverage on your Defog Hydreigon is a way to help improve your teams overall structure.

A quick side note, Life Orb mixed or Physical sets also have a lot of potential right now that I think could be explored, can't be revealing everything though!

Make sure to tell Eyan on his profile how much you enjoy using Hydreigon!
 

justdrew

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Sage great post, sadly right before OU steals Hydreigon away from us :/ (No one knows for sure but it is a likely possibility)

I was going to post on this thread and then I forgot but aim reminded me to so I'll make a post.


I agree with Aim's post on Mega Steelix. I personally am a huge fan of Mega Steelix. For what its worth I have gotten top 7 on ladder with two seperate Mega Steelix teams and pulled quite a few wins in UU Open with it. My favorite quality of Mega Steelix is the role compression it provides. Every UU team scrambles to fit in a Ground- and Steel-type and a Stealth Rock setter, maybe a special wall or Toxic user. Mega Steelix has all of that compressed into one Mega slot. The space it frees up on teams is INSANELY helpful in my opinion. Recently some of you may have seen some Curse sets running around ladder or tours, as Aim mentioned. This is proof that Mega Steelix is not a one dimensional Pokemon. A lot of players love to click Flamethrower on Mega Steelix for some reason which is a huge mistake. Clicking Flamethrower leaves you vulnerable and your opponent can switch in special scarfers like Latias and Hydreigon and punish you for that, alternatively Mega Steelix can just hammer you with an Earthquake, digest the Flamethrower like blue berry pancakes, and then switch out. Or my personal favorite, double intro Hydreigon and then U-turn back into Mega Steelix. My last comment about Mega Steelix is that it checks one of UU's most threatening sweepers, Calm Mind Latias. Whether it's Bolt Beam or Z Draco + Thunder or just standard STAB attacks, Mega Steelix walls it all. That's my piggy back rant, off of Aim's post, on Mega Steelix.


I have noticed that many people don't see any value in Kyurem. I'm not sure why such a valuable wall breaker is being swept under the rug and I am a tad disappointed. If any of you watched the Robjr v. Accelgoat game, replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7uu-400486, you would have seen the valuable roll Kyurem played. I won't go much into that because Accel talks all about it in his Snake Draft Discussion post, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7uu-400486. Kyurem plays a great roll against stall teams by being able to eat two Seismic tosses from Blissey behind a sub, it is also an amazing soft check to the ever present and annoying Mega Manectric. It also functions well against other Volt Switchers and functions similar to Suicune but without Calm Mind. Ice Ground coverage hits so much of this tier which makes Kyurem very difficult to switch into. Whether you slap on Choice Specs or Scarf it is an invaluable and splashable resource. The ever relevant Scald Pokemon of the UU tier make Kyurem a great choice as a pivot/sponge and Ice-typing is always fantastic offensively. I don't want to ramble on about facts anyone can look up so I will end it there. Kyurem is better than you think so give it a shot.

That's all I for now. I am really happy this thread exists now and I've wanted it for a long time. I am sure that I am not the only one. NP threads are not enough for meta game discussion considering suspects happen ever 2 months to never. Great work by Aim and the rest of the contributors. Thank you for reading!
 

aim

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Just a post I wanted to make after seeing the discussion points for the next VR shifts. I basically wanted to talk about Kommo-o without having to defend a rise, but more so spark discussion. I personally feel that Kommo-o has even more worth than just the standard DD or the rocks Z set (special or physical) as I think a lot of sets are incredibly unexplored. One set that I was testing out was sub metronome during my slam run(smacked fat), i never actually used it in a game as I couldn’t get the team to work well (Kommo-o did work though just the squads needed polishing). I feel that bulk up sets are something that we should try, taking advantage of kommo-os great resistances and bulk. I just wanted peoples thoughts and potentially sets that you may have tried that aren’t necessarily standard but have worked to some degree :heart:
 
utility Kommo-o

Kommo-o @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 248 HP / 156 Def / 8 SpA / 96 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Close Combat
- Flamethrower
- Dragon Tail

I have been using this set on some offensive/bulky offensive teams since more offensive builds tends to struggle against Scizor and you need to keep healthy things such Mega-Manectric in late game to RK it (specially SD variants), I got the idea from that bulky helmet Garchomp from BW/ORAS, this thing works as Scizor check that stops Choice Band variants but at the same time checks SD Scizor variants, stops Choice Band sets thanks to their resist to U-turn + Helmet damage and SD variants thanks to their defensive spread + Flamethrower.

+2 252+ Atk Iron Plate Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 248 HP / 156+ Def Kommo-o: 171-202 (48.4 - 57.2%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO
8- SpA Kommo-o Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 284-336 (101 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

The main purpose its check and wear down Scizor on offensive teams that struggles to face it, can help to wear down things such Terrakion for Togekiss, Mega-Houndoo, etc.

I have paired it with Klefki cause Klefki gaves Spikes so Kommo-o can abuse with Dragon Taill while checks fairies that stops entirely this set.
 
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I was wondering why there is little hazard stacking teams in UU?
If trying to build a stall team which sets up loads of hazards, how would you try to build it?
Regenerate Core? Suicide Leads that only aim to get those hazards up?
 

McMeghan

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Just wondering what the Assault Vest Mienshao set from the VR update is?? Really interested in using it.
Mienshao @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 132 HP / 136 SpD / 240 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Fake Out

EV Spread lets it tank Spec DM/Z-DM from Hydrei and +1 DM from Latias as a result. You're also faster than Nihilego. The reasonning as to what makes it useful is well explained in the latest update post in the VR thread.
I was wondering why there is little hazard stacking teams in UU?
If trying to build a stall team which sets up loads of hazards, how would you try to build it?
Regenerate Core? Suicide Leads that only aim to get those hazards up?
I've tried to build a lot of hazard stacking teams in UU. The biggest limiting factor is the pool of spikers.

I think there are 2 approach to abusing Spikes in general. One of them is using a full blown offense, where you'll look at suicide leads/offensive Pokemons so you can keep the pressure up and punish Defog/Spin turns. The problem is that Defog has a large and good distribution, so to make Spikes worth the hassle, you need to think of ways to prevent Defog/Spin from being used which affect the whole team. The pool of offensive spikers is already pretty limited. Froslass/Accelgor have their shortcomings (they're just average Pokemons= and Klefki while good in theory sadly lets a lot of Pokemons Defog/Spin on it freely (Tentacruel/Empoleon come to mind).

Now if you wanna build a balanced or defensive team that aims to abuse Spikes in longer games (which is what most people tend to go for), there are other options. Klefki remains a popular pick, but I'm personally not a big fan of it. In general, it also explains why there are little hazard stacking teams in UU. Those teams tend to lack offensive options and really want to keep their hazards up as much as possible to make progress. That's where Klefki's shortcomings show, as once again, its inability to prevent or punish some Defog/Spinners from clearing the field bites it in the back. However, one good option, which has been my favorite when building those kind of teams, is Chesnaught. Chesnaught fits those teams well and unlike Klefki, has access to good recovery options in Leech Seed and Synthesis, allowing its player to stay alive longer. Like every hazards setters, there will be Pokemons that can switch on it and Defog/Spin freely but at least, Chesnaught can recover the damages and actually weaken them more effectively than Klefki through either direct attacks or entry damages coupled with Roar, or just Leech Seeding them as they come in.

For those reasons, I've always gone the Chesnaught route when building hazards stacking teams. The few times I tried Klefki, I was very frustrated when running into Empoleon teams in particular. There might be some other options worth exploring (thinking of Roserade/Ferroseed/Forretress), but out of all the Spikers available, the two Pokemons with the best defensive abilities are Chester and Klefki.

In conclusion: limited pool of spikers + they have their shortcomings + large and good pool of (especially) Defog/Spin users = Spikes teams aren't ubiquitous in the tier
 

Finchinator

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Hey! Overall, I am pretty disappointed with my play in the UU game against HarrisIsAwesome that I had for Grand Slam playoffs (here), but I have been enjoying this metagame more than any other lately and I'm glad I got to make a deep run into UU Open, go 4-2 in the first round of UU Majors, and also talk/test with my Snake team routinely as of late. Hopefully I can continue to actively play the tier and maybe even drop some insight here on occasion. Anyway, I wanted to just post some teams I had prepared for Harris and then maybe give some thoughts on the current metagame.

(click image for imports hyperlink)

I expected some balance or bulky-offense from Harris, specifically stuff that was momentum heavy with Rotom/Manectric, Scizor, Nape, etc. kinda standardized, but solid stuff that offers opportunities to outplay-to-win. Because of this, I had a number of ideas -- my approaches varied and I built stuff that were more bulky-offensive, balanced, and even a bit slower paced like the Reuniclus team. I was pretty fond of all of these builds besides the Terrakion team as that turned out to be a bit situational and ratchet, but I grew some strong preferences through testing.

The Celebi team felt like a weird ORAS UU team that a bunch of people came up with similar structures to earlier on in Snake and the Salazzle structure just was not as consistent as I would like it to be, so I eventually had it down to just the first 3. I do actually think NP Celebi is pretty cool in the current metagame; I have been meaning to try that set Hogg posted in the VR because I feel like it does ridiculous things for a Pokemon as normally kinda tame as Celebi, but have not gotten to it quite yet. As for Salazzle, I have yet to build something with the Corrosion set that has been too solid, but I think that it has some great applications; the Pearl team that was spammed throughout open really shows how unique a presence it can be and I hope that there are similar exploits found around Salazzle or other cool techs moving forward as seeing how they do in the metagame always intrigues me.

The Reuniclus team actually did very well in testing (mainly on the ladder, but also some games with friends) and probably was one of the better teams of the bunch. I think that Reuniclus is ridiculously underrated in the current metagame. It has seen some uses recently, which is cool, but overall I think it deserves to see more usage than it gets. I get that in a metagame with Scizor, two Dark types, and another Psychic type all being top tier it may seem like it does not have a place, but I feel like it is very possible to set the field in a way that Reuniclus has an alley to sweep or at least make progress in the context of games. I know some people like Robjr have worked with Reuniclus in conjunction with an Eject Button user and Magneton, which I find to be a really cool concept, but personally I prefer it on a pretty straightforward balance with means of outlasting/chipping away at normal counterplay and winning in the long game like this team. Speaking of things I find to be a bit underrated atm, I also think that there is a lot of room to explore with Blissey outside of full-on stall builds, much like TDK and maybe 1-2 others happened to do with teams used in Snake, but I know this is not completely unheard of, just a bit underexplored. I am really fond of a specific type of balance structure with Blissey + Mega Slowbro as a defensive backbone actually (my build had Reuniclus and tbh I guess a big concern became Terrakion because of the lack of MegaBro), but sadly I did not get to build with this specifically for Harris as I did not quite like how it matched up with his breaker/momentum heavy approach. For similar reasons, I also elected to not go with this seeing as I just felt there was too much momentum I was forfeiting and I'd rather have been able to control the gameflow against him as much as possible, thus leading to me limiting my choice down to the first two teams.

The Z-Fly Moltres team was probably about as good as the team I decided to go with, but I mainly decided not to use it because I frequented the Hippowdon + Empoleon balanced defensive core, which also happened to be on this team. Harris actually would have taken advantage of this quite a bit with his team because he had Rotom-C + Krookodile, which would have been really awkward to pivot around seeing as by Rotom-C pivot was Latias given the defensive backbone I had being vulnerable to it. Ultimately, I just did not go with this team because I did not feel it was best for the opponent aside from Moltres, which is something I felt could wear out a lot of the teams I was seeing from him. There is not a ton else to say about this build because it is super standardized, but it's solid and did the best of any team in testing probably.

Finally, there's the team I ultimately went with. This team has been one of my favorites to play; I love the offensive synergy that it has and I feel like with some more aggressive play it can win just about any match-up. Early game Hydreigon sets the stage really well for mid-late game Togekiss and Latias. The Togekiss + Latias + pressure with Mega Aggron are always enough for stall and bulkier builds unless they have oddly specific measures or I fuck around. The match-up against conventional offense, which is what I was expecting, is not bad either seeing as I have decent enough initial checks to most things and the team never really goes passive, which is probably my favorite part of the build for Harris seeing as I did not want to let up momentum much. Z-Fight Togekiss was the focus of the team and I find this thing to be fantastic, by the way. Z-Aura Sphere hits something most games and I think that offensive Togekiss in general is just really annoying to so many teams. I actually got a pretty good match-up for that specifically in the game, too, but I played way too quickly, so I did not get to take advantage of it. Anyway, this type of bulky-offense with a "special attacking overload" of sorts is a really cool team dynamic and also quite fun to pilot, in my opinion. Probably my favorite type of bulky-offense while the generic Hippo+Emp balance is my favorite type of team overall. I got some tricks up my sleeve that I may post after Snake if my dudes don't use them, but for now this is all. Hope you guys enjoyed the read and feel free to try any of the teams if you'd like -- I'm sure there are better builders out there in this metagame though.

edit: ps @ sage's post above, Black Hole Eclipse Hydreigon is big heat
 

Havens

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Tier Shifts came out this morning: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/usage-based-tier-update-for-october-2018.3642391/#post-7926272
This is scary:

Sableye-Mega moved from OU to UU
Latios moved from OU to UU
Latios-Mega moved from OU to UU
Zeraora moved from OU to UU
Mew moved from OU to UU
Bisharp moved from OU to UU

Unrelated, but notable:
Stakataka, Raikou, Kyurem, Mega Pidgeot, Darmanitan, all went...down to RU?

So we got more than what we were expecting, but I would never think that Mega Sableye would ever be so low. Halp.
 
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Freeroamer

The greatest story of them all.
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You’re missing a couple, this is the full list of UU relevant stuff

Gastrodon moved from OU to UU
Zeraora moved from OU to UU
Bisharp moved from OU to UU
Latios-Mega moved from OU to UU
Latios moved from OU to UU
Sableye-Mega moved from OU to UU
Mew moved from OU to UU

e:@ below, it did but we can use it again now so I added it here, definitely the least important one tho
 
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Havens

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My bad about Bisharp, but I didn't include Gastro since it Quickrose from PU, so I'm inclined to believe that it quickfell all the way back down there.
 

aim

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Yup! Looks like we got some drops and rises folks

Lucario moved from PU to UU
Rotom-Heat moved from RU to UU
Arcanine moved from UU to RU
Mantine moved from UU to RU
Slowbro-Mega moved from PU to UU
Zeraora moved from OU to UU
Ninetales-Alola moved from OU to UUBL
Bisharp moved from OU to UU
Latios-Mega moved from OU to UU
Latios moved from OU to UU
Seismitoad moved from UU to RU

Obviously the cool ones are already being talked about. I think Mega Latios in particular is going to be one of the most interesting as defensive CM (max hp variants) can beat down most of its checks, while having a naturally more offensive presence than latias. Super interested to see if this lasts/how long it lasts. Taking advantage of its extra bulk I feel will go a long way.

I think, as we were talking about in the uu discord, that if running offensive variants, Latios @ Z-move should be picked. Hitting way harder than Latias though we have gained a new check (an old friend) to help.

Bisharp is back! Think it came at a good time to, takes advantage of all the choice scarf krookodile and the M-Latios/Latios drop. The current rise in fighting types will be interesting for bisharp but i’m sure it will easily find its place since the new shifts benefit it.

Zeraora dropped! Into a tier where it isn’t outclassed by 10 million electric types! It for sure sets itself apart from M-Manectric as an offensive electric, especially with the M-Lati/Lati/Bisharp drop, most likely lowering M-Manectrics usage, where as Zeraora has access to moves like Knock Off. Banded Zeraora should be fun. With Gliscor long gone, i’m excited to see it find its place in the tier. Access to CC/Fire Punch also help this boy out. Not walled by Hydreigon or checked by Scizor U-turn/Pursuit.

M-Slowbro rose, about time. The block/cm variant have all proven themselves these past few months. Honestly I feel regular slowbro also deserves this spot too (sorry nu), but we will see in the coming months

Feel free to discuss (as you guys have been doing!)

*Quick Initial thoughts*
Mega Manectric gonna drop off in usage oh man
 
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made this dragon spam spikes team in 5 mins, use it while its hot

Froslass @ Focus Sash
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Icy Wind
- Will-O-Wisp



Latios @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Recover
- Calm Mind



Hydreigon @ Metronome
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- U-turn
- Dark Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast



Bisharp @ Dread Plate
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance



Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Taunt
- Focus Blast



Magneton @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Fire]
 

MaahirMomtaz12

I COULD BE BANNED!
made this dragon spam spikes team in 5 mins, use it while its hot

Froslass @ Focus Sash
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Icy Wind
- Will-O-Wisp



Latios @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Recover
- Calm Mind



Hydreigon @ Metronome
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- U-turn
- Dark Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast



Bisharp @ Dread Plate
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance



Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Taunt
- Focus Blast



Magneton @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Why not run Mega Latios while it's still in the tier LOL
 

Havens

WGI World Champion
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
I mean, I guess it's best to prepare for it leaving lool. Mega Latios is basically a more offensive Mega Latias, with absolutely ridiculous power that can check many offensive threats/setup such as Mega Mane, non scarf Latias, Scizor (w/ HP Fire), Suicune, Terrakion, Kommo-o, you name it, while also compressing Defog with minimal opportunity cost. This thing's going to be absolutely stupid for any team, and becomes the best mega in UU, literally instantly.

Aside from that, the UU discord link is in the OP ukaaa, or just click on this: https://discord.gg/zQckyDE
 
Zeraora moved from OU to UU - Zeraora is truly an interesting drop due to its amazing speed tier and great coverage in Close Combat, Fire Punch and Knock Off (I would also say Grass Knot but Seismitoad just dropped so it usage won't be much anymore).

Bisharp moved from OU to UU - It's back! Last time it rose from usage and with the fighting spam going on + scarf krook being a heavy presence in the tier I am curious to see how it will work in UU.

Latios-Mega moved from OU to UU - Broken please ban.

Latios moved from OU to UU - Basically a more offensive Latias which is a top tier Pokemon in this tier so I can see her brother do the exact same thing.
 
Zeraora moved from OU to UU - Zeraora is truly an interesting drop due to its amazing speed tier and great coverage in Close Combat, Fire Punch and Knock Off (I would also say Grass Knot but Seismitoad just dropped so it usage won't be much anymore).

Bisharp moved from OU to UU - It's back! Last time it rose from usage and with the fighting spam going on + scarf krook being a heavy presence in the tier I am curious to see how it will work in UU.

Latios-Mega moved from OU to UU - Broken please ban.

Latios moved from OU to UU - Basically a more offensive Latias which is a top tier Pokemon in this tier so I can see her brother do the exact same thing.
Grass Knot is still one of Zera's best moves. It hits Palossand and Hippowdon very hard in addition to the mons 4x weak to it. The only grounds that don't fold over to Zera's Grass Knot are Nidoqueen and Hippowdon.

Also, I think its a little early to jump the gun and make conclusions on Mega Latios.
 
I am pretty sure the Mega Latios opinion was a meme of some sorts.

Besides that there really aren't any Pokemon that are 4x weak to grass in the UU meta at the moment besides Seismitoad and Swampert
(You rarely ever see Rhyperiors or Quagsires) and other Pokemon that you hit with Grass Knot are hit harder by moves like Close Combat or Plastma Fists, also Hippowdown might not fold over by one Grass Knot but a Max Spdef Hippowdown is almost always 2 hit ko'd by a LO Grass Knot hit.

0 SpA Life Orb Zeraora Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 203-239 (48.3 - 56.9%) -- 36.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery.
Grass Knot hits Krookodile harder, kills Rhyperior, allows it to have a decent stall matchup by hitting Quagsire, and hits Swampert and Seismitoad as you just mentioned. Also, Grass Knot is mainly good for Grounds, so I don't really get the Plasma Fists mention. I really doubt the Mega Latios opinion was a meme, on paper it does seem really broken. Pretty sure mixed Zeraora wouldn't run min special attack and Hippowdon would never run max spdef, even if it was just an example.

I'll probably edit this post later to talk about our new toys, for now bye and make sure to run Mega Steelix on every team.
 
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1538750761604.png

Side note, the Bee is honestly kinda looking nice. It and Zeraora make a great, incredibly fast Voltturn duo. And Zera's presence makes Mane in general feel like less of a necessity on Voltturn builds, letting the opprotunity to possibly run a bee arise. Also, it can revenge enemy Zera since it's one of the few faster things. And in addition, Its a nice check to non-scarf Latios sets. This thing especially comes in handy vs the bulkier Mega Latios, which can take punishment from many faster threats like Scarf Krookodile and Aerodactyl-Mega. U-turn will always KO and it can Pursuit trap Latios as well. (Thank you to Amane Misa for reminding me of Pursuit Bee)
 
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