Metagame USUM UU - General Discussion & Trends Thread!

Zeroara is looking like a phenomenal stallbreaker. It can hit blissey, alomolala, quagsire with a mixed close combat / plasma fists / grass knot / filler set.
Mega altaria will probably become much more popular on stall since it is stall’s best bet to wall zeroara.
 

JustoonSmitts

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My thoughts on the new drops:



Yeah... this isn't lasting long in UU. I know Bisharp just dropped too, but this is a more offensive Mega Latias. This will nuke the tier. This will most likely get quickbanned.


Latios for sure will outperform offensive Latias. Z-move Latios will likely be the best set. It's not as crazy since Bisharp joined it and there are lots of checks to it here like Scizor, Scarf Hydreigon, Scarf Gengar, and Mega Beedrill. I don't know if it will be banned immediately, but it's likely warranting a suspect in the future (maybe).


A new check to Lati@s, Choice Scarfers, and Defoggers? Hell yeah! I remember this being kind of a pain when it was in UU beta, but the increased usage of Fighting-types like Cobalion might help with keeping this Power Ranger in check. Bisharp is an awesome Defog deterrent and is probably the best Pursuit trapper in the tier right now. It's a neat addition to UU and might find its place in no time.


THIS is the drop that I'm the most excited for! An Electric type that isn't walled by Hydreigon is such a big advantage! It doesn't waste a mega slot so this gives more room for other options. Mega Beedrill paired with this and/or Scizor might make a solid Volt/Turn core. Banded for sure will be fun but so will other sets like Life Orb All-Out Attacker, Calm Mind, and maybe Work Up. Mega Manectric will likely still have a place in UU, but it won't be as necessary. RIP Raikou, though...
 
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Been experimenting with a few of the drops just now and I ended up making a pretty nasty HO team with a few. Involves the typical Spikestack core of Mega Sharpedo+Klefki+Mamoswine but has Bisharp added to deter Defog usage and I replaced CM Electrium Latias with CM Electrium Latios. Also has SD Scizor because Scizor is godlike. Bisharp is looking quite solid in tandem with this core even though it doubles down on a few weaknesses because of how good the synergy is. And after playing a little on the ladder in light of the drops here are a few of my impressions:

Mega Latios:
Get this thing out of here. It's like Mega Latias but it hits much, much harder and it hits on both ends of the spectrum so it can run effective mixed sets as it did in OU when it was particularly dominant among the Megas there. I might be jumping the gun a tiny bit here but I firmly believe this thing has absolutely no place in UU whatsoever since it has extremely few actual answers, and it can still pack the right coverage options to blow them away. Mega Latias had no place in this tier and this thing does a lot of its offensive roles even better, and then adds even more offensive versatility to the mix. This is even further compounded by the fact that regular Latios is no slouch either. They are both very, very much top-level threats in the tier but they can do very, very different things and can be a guessing game in and of itself.

Vanilla Latios:
I'm not entirely convinced if this thing is completely broken like its Mega is yet, but I can confidently say one thing: its offensive sets almost completely eclipse Latias's offensive sets. The +20 SpA over Latias is an absolutely tremendous deal and on Spikestack teams the amount of OHKOs this gets on things that would survive a hit from the same Latias set and hit back or kill it is downright absurd. The difference in power also lets it run Psyshock more effectively, and Psyshock scores an incredibly crucial potential 2HKO:

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 308-364 (43.1 - 50.9%) -- 54.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

This thing has a very great matchup against almost any archetype, depending heavily on the set it opts to run. Surf, Thunder, a stronger HP Fire, Grass Knot, physical sets that muscle past its typical checks (Mega only), Memento (as opposed to Latias's Healing Wish), etc. are all great potential options that it can run. Some of them are just stronger than Latias's versions, while others are things Latias outright cannot run.

Part of me really, really feels like this thing's extra offensive presence over Latias might make it a bit too much for UU, but it's still a lovely addition for the time being regardless.

Bisharp:
I like this thing. This thing feels like an incredibly solid threat in the UU meta should it remain (I think it should, honestly) and its offensive typing is stellar in this tier. Pursuit trapper, revenge killer, a living Defog repellant, wallbreaker, and honestly the potential for even more given this tier's lower power levels relative to OU's. The amount of type synergy this thing has with Lati@s is also downright ludicrous: they share not a single weakness and, unless I'm losing my mind, the only neutrality they share is to Fairy moves, and Bisharp can beat Fairies by virtue of its STAB Iron Head anyway. Bulkier Bisharp variants (or maybe a fast AV set?) can take stray Moonblasts and fish for Defiant boosts from the SpA drops, too. Bisharp has a lot of potential in this meta as is and the sheer synergy it has with Latios and Latias - the latter of which is an already-established top 2 threat in the tier and the former of which outclasses the latter offensively and will likely share its place in S if it isn't banned - will make it a good threat.

Oh, and Jolly Bisharp outspeeds Adamant Mamoswine. That's another big deal.

Zeraora:
I haven't used it as much, but I adore what it brings to the table here in UU. The furry bait packs a downright absurd amount of coverage options, it has a fantastic Speed tier, and its offenses are good enough to let it run a Mixed set very well. It can run a plethora of different Z-moves, it has Fire Punch for Scizor, it has CC (or Drain Punch if you need recovery?) for Blissey and Hydreigon, it has Plasma Fists as a consistent and powerful STAB with no drawbacks, it has Grass Knot for Hippowdon and Swampert, it has Outrage to lure in Lati@s, it has Knock Off to cripple stuff, it has Volt Switch to gain momentum and form VoltTurn cores with a good portion of the meta, and it has Work Up to boost its mixed attacking prowess even further.

I theorymonned this a while back and Work Up gives it a lot more power than normally. It 2HKOs almost the entire metagame at +1, it's incredibly difficult to revenge kill, and its bulk isn't absolute trash either. It can pack so many different coverage options that it's a guessing game in and of itself. It has a great matchup against a lot of Stall cores on top of that. It'll likely be a pretty top threat in this tier, although I'm not 100% sure if it'll be too much or not.

Either way, all these drops are going to considerably influence the tier. All four of these are already or have the potential to be top threats that will need to be prepared for. And I'm definitely excited to see where the tier goes with Latios, Bisharp, and Zeraora present. Mega Latios can go rot in UUBL though. That shit's too strong.
 

Perish Song

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I'd like to say a few words with regular latios. While everybody agrees that its mega is broken and it needs to go, I feel like saying this statement just slightly overshadows what latios is capable of doing. I think that base Latios is alot more scarier than its Mega. Right now, Latios is the most versalite pokemon present in the tier right now, far better than Hydreigon for comparaison. It has a good Speed tier paired with high Spatk stat and an acceptable bulk.

I'd like to start this with the main set I've been testing out , CM Z Thunder Dualstabs set. This particular set can invalidate every hazard removal in the tier, barring Mega Altaria and capable of beating any steel type pokemon 1 v 1 barring Magneton. Pairing this set with spike support , cleric and other pokemons that also appreciates those ( Namely M-Sharp) , you get a nearly unstoppable core where your only checks are faster offensive pokemons. Just like it invalidates hazard removals, it also can beat most of hazard setters in the tier , thanks to its access to moves Surf and Ice Beam. ( These two moves also helps it get thru Krook and Megalix.) It may also learn defog and roost, paired with soul dew you have a fast offensive defogger that still can do huge amount of damage. It has bunch of stat boosting moves, both Physical and Special ( Ddance and CM respectively) , paired with the coverage it has, makes it very hard to predict. Its access to Earthquake paired with a Z move lets it beat Muk Alola on 1 v 1. Lifeorb is also an option, Roost + 3 Atks or CM + 3 Atks are both good options worth mentioning. It learns one of most common offensive coverage duo Bolt Beam, paired with strong Dual Stab. Using Specs, Latios can 2 hko entire tier including Blissey and Sylveon and its Scarf set can be run to beats its other offensive checks, namely Bisharp and Krookodile. Last thing is, it can also run other Z moves to get past thru additional stuff easier.

+1 252 SpA Latios Gigavolt Havoc (185 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Aggron-Mega: 251-296 (73.1 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Latios Gigavolt Havoc (185 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Aggron-Mega: 334-394 (97.3 - 114.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
+1 252 SpA Latios Gigavolt Havoc (185 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Cobalion: 393-463 (121.6 - 143.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
+1 252 SpA Latios Gigavolt Havoc (185 BP) vs. 248 HP / 136 SpD Scizor: 310-365 (90.3 - 106.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Latios Gigavolt Havoc (185 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Sharpedo: 1226-1444 (436.2 - 513.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Ohkoes thru Protect )
4 Atk Latios Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Muk-Alola: 170-200 (48.4 - 56.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes
+1 252+ SpA Latios Devastating Drake (195 BP) vs. 0 HP / 180 SpD Assault Vest Muk-Alola: 294-346 (83.7 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 357-420 (50 - 58.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sylveon: 186-219 (47.2 - 55.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Latios Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Krookodile: 264-312 (79.7 - 94.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
252 SpA Latios Hydro Vortex (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Steelix-Mega: 328-386 (92.6 - 109%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
It doesnt require rocket science knowledge to realize how easy to support this pokemon. Latios single handedly puts an immense pressure to many pokemons, has no real counters in the tier and with correct set it can play around its offensive checks. Factoring what set it should use is way too much to think/predict and its restricting the metagame heavily right now that I think it deserves a ban.

I'd like to hear other people's opinion about Latios, thanks for reading :)

Edit : Replays coming soon
 
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Damn what a shift! I can breathe easily that Mega Sableye won't be in the tier however Mew doesn't get in by a small margin :pikuh:.

So to celebrate going over the landmark of 300 posts, I got two Zeraora sets with one of them probably being the competitive set and the other one is just for good fun (but could be a viable set idk).

Zeraora @ Life Orb
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 248 Atk / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty/Naïve Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Close Combat/Drain Punch
- Volt Switch
- Grass Knot/Fire Punch

Zeraora gives Mega Manectric competition on VoltTurn because of its blazing speed tier, having Grass Knot which gives it an easier time in breaking fat grounds like Hippowdon, and doesn't use up your mega stone all at the cost of having mixed stats. Plasma Fists is Zera's strongest STAB while Close Combat or Drain Punch if you like recovery is nice coverage against Steels (especially the ones that can absorb your Volt Switch like Mega Steelix). Fire Punch could be used over Grass Knot if you want to hit Scizor. Life Orb maximizes both of Zera's physical and special capabilities at the cost of recoil. Zeraora does look like it suffers from a bit of 4MSS so pick what you find to be the most suitable.

Next up is the fun and much more intriguing Zeraora set:

Zeraora @ Life Orb
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 HP
- Substitute
- Endeavor
- Plasma Fists
- Close Combat

Yup it’s a Sub Endeavor Zeraora. Zeraora is one of the fastest non mega abuser of Sub Endeavor in the tier and it’ll most likely force your opponent to switch out by virtue of that mono Electric typing. This set can beat out its checks and can discourage Volt Switch as it heals itself up and clicks Sub once more. Being behind a Sub also prevents it from getting revenge killed by Scarfed Krook. All in all I think this could be a niche but interesting stallbreaker set.

Oh and one more thing. I had a Mineshao VoltTurn a while back and now I revamped the team with the already popular Mega Bee+Zera offensive core. Here it is:

Zeraora @ Life Orb
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 248 Atk / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Close Combat
- Volt Switch
- Grass Knot

Beedrill-Mega @ Beedrillite
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Poison Jab
- Drill Run
- Pursuit

Mienshao @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- U-turn
- Poison Jab
- Knock Off

Hydreigon @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Defog
- Roost

Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard

Chandelure @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
- Fire Blast
 
Alright so I got to talk about latios, this thing is amazing.
51BWRkgbHvL._SL1100_.jpg

Latios @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Psyshock
- Sleep Talk/ Thunderbolt
This set right here basically 2hkos the entire tier. Honestly, its the best Latios set in the tier and makes it so good. draco hits so hard and psyshock 2hkos the fairies and the big fat blissey. Draco is just a straight up nuke and fire is used to ohko scizor. Sleep talk is used for amongus or T bolt is used for empoleon. This thing is really good and worth a try. Also, imo its better than Mega Latios as it gets harder hits immediately.
 

avarice

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Imo regular latios is definitely scarier than mega due to the potential immediate power or scarf to nail opposing mega/regular lati@s. From the amount I’ve played I doubt zera and latios will be staying. Bisharp can be scary but not close to the power of these two at all. I’ve messed around with a bunch of teams (mostly volturn) but have been most happy with basic HO. Shark is nice since it resists most priority as always. This includes +2 sucker punch from bisharp. I’ve been using EQ over psychic fangs for the power ranger and it’s pretty devastating to those teams with beedrill and zera which are all over.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-815998201
 
Realistically Zera provides great role compression and essentially invalidates Raikou, but I don't think that's enough to push it into banworthy territory. There's still plenty of threats that can handle it, its offensive capabilities are pretty underwhelming compared to what I was expecting. Along with this, it suffers from 4MSS harder than a LOT of Pokemon in UU. It has that monstrous speed but that's not saying much.

I'd be much more worried about Latios imo, while I love the Pokemon dearly (it and Zera dropping were the reason I decided to get back into UU), it could be a little centralizing (especially if Bisharp gets voted out)
 

ehT

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This was initially a response to Smallsmallrose's post here, but ended up becoming a broader discussion of the state of Electric-types in our tier in general, so I thought it was worth taking over here.

I initially thought Zeraora's lack of power was going to mean it'd be really mediocre, but after using it, I've realized its lack of initial power isn't that crippling for it with regards to achieving OHKOs the same way it isn’t a big deal to Manectric. In a post-Latios, post-Bisharp meta Spike stack won’t be as ridiculously overbearing, so there’s a decent chance Zera will have to use stronger sets than this set I’ve been using, but even that set will often just need one well-placed prediction to dismantle your core in a way other Electrics just aren’t capable of. Further while opposing Electrics do put each other in a Mexican standoff of sorts, and even though though Zera has the toughest time winning those 1v1’s, I still think it is the most well-rounded Electric-type, including VoltTurn mirrors.

The Rotoms, despite their Ground immunity, are pressured to concede free turns with Defog and are helplessly walled by Dragon-types and SpDef stuff, making them less self-sufficient and more reliable on punishable moves. Manectric is forced to Volt Switch a lot and take hazards, is almost as predictable as the Rotoms, and is a sitting duck versus the best Ground-types. So while it has solid defensive utility and can prove a massive headache to offense, it’s not really capable of the burst damage put out by the Rotoms or of dismantling cores the way Zeraora does.

Zera doesn’t have as obnoxious of an offense matchup as Manectric does: most sets lose to Latias and it’s a subpar Bullet Punch resist at the best of times. It also doesn’t have the team support or defensive utility of Rotom. But what it gets in exchange is, I think, the best balance matchup of the group and maybe a 6-7/10 offense matchup (it can revenge stuff and Volt but it's nothing revolutionary IMO). While it’s vulnerable to hazards just like Manectric, it doesn’t have to Volt nearly as often since it’s far more capable at just attacking what’s in front of it, so with the help of a prediction here and there it is far more capable of getting consistent damage off and setting the stage for your endgame. As an example, Manectric can try to gain favorable positioning for a teammate by using HP Grass on a predicted Hippo to force a Slack Off, but helping its teammate is still the most it can achieve from that exchange. Zeraora, on the other hand, can predict Hippo with Grass Knot any time it wants, and forces it to EQ. One wrong move and Hippo loses. In other words, you’ll likely to achieve more net damage each time Zera leaves its ball than any other Electric despite being so much weaker due to its coverage and mixed attacking ability. This is only compounded by the ability to run more matchup-oriented sets like Work Up and Shuca Berry that can skew balance or offense matchups further in its favor, respectively.
 
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aim

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The Bisharp suspect test is live! My thought process behind voting no ban on the council vote was that bisharp seemed super nasty in a meta where lati/mega lati was allowed, giving it increasingly more room to shine thn I feel a meta without those two (knew they would be banned) would show. As there are checks like chesnaught, cobalion, terrakion, ape that are even better without being scared of the monsters that were the Lati's. I'm not here to say that Bisharp is in-fact not broken, as it is extremely good, however I did want to see how it fared in a meta like current UU + Zeraora. Especially since the last time we had Bisharp was in a Keldeo + Gliscor meta. Will be giving my thoughts after laddering.

The NP Thread can be found here.


Edit: Speaking of Chesnaught, I feel is extremely good with Bisharp now on the ladder. McMeghan touched upon this before in a post, but its ability to not only check Bisharp but also spike freely on a lot of common UU pokemon being Krookodile, Crawdaunt, Hippowdon etc, the list goes on and right now it's even better with Bisharp running around. The point of my post is to say, TRY CHESNAUGHT! and let me know how that goes, I've been messing around with speedier variants for crawdaunt and even taunt variations as well.
 
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As we all know, this month's drops gave us some real threats: Bisharp, Mega Latios, Latios, and Zeraora. Since then, Latios and it's Mega, as well as Bisharp, have been banned from the UU tier. That left UU with one very interesting mon: Zeraora. At first glance, the only thing that stands out about Zera is its stellar speed tier and it's amazing movepool, but that's only scratching the surface. Zeraora has decent attack and special attack, meaning it can run a Special Set, a Physical set, and a Mixed set. This gives Zeraora many options, and overall is what in my opinion is scariest about this mon: You will never know what it's running at first glance. Depending on it's set, it could 6-0 your team from turn 1 or end up being dead weight the entire time. It's movepool is very versatile, including moves such as Grass Knot, Close Combat, Bulk Up, Knock Off, Calm Mind, Iron Tail, etc., which make for a very scary pokemon. It can also run a large amount of items, such as Choice Band, Choice Scarf, Choice Specs, Life Orb, Z Crystals, Expert Belt, etc. In conclusion, Zeraora may look like nothing at first appearance, but it's truly a monster in the UU tier.
 

avarice

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0dde1ed9556efe0795b1714e99bc01db2c25851d_00.gif

Control (Gligar) @ Eviolite
Ability: Immunity
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Defog
- U-turn
Hi I wanted to take a second to acknowledge gligar. Particularly when paired Alo, they have been a rather solid answer to hippo (moreso after toxic by alo/spikes) and most importantly Zeraora only really fearing knockoff and even then it can still beat it. Gligar may not be gliscor, but the rise of hp grass and other weird options that have become more relevant since gliscor's departure make it even more viable than before zeraora arrived. Sets like wing attack and curse gain strength with chesnaught being used more too. Bulky rotom heat, a good partner for gligar, can be rather annoying with willo but gligar's ability to pivot into clerics is rather handy. Finally, being able to defog with the lowered chance of bisharp switching in is fantastic (and from what i can tell bisharp staying seems to be the majority).
 

Kink

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View attachment 140709
Control (Gligar) @ Eviolite
Ability: Immunity
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Defog
- U-turn
Hi I wanted to take a second to acknowledge gligar. Particularly when paired Alo, they have been a rather solid answer to hippo (moreso after toxic by alo/spikes) and most importantly Zeraora only really fearing knockoff and even then it can still beat it. Gligar may not be gliscor, but the rise of hp grass and other weird options that have become more relevant since gliscor's departure make it even more viable than before zeraora arrived. Sets like wing attack and curse gain strength with chesnaught being used more too. Bulky rotom heat, a good partner for gligar, can be rather annoying with willo but gligar's ability to pivot into clerics is rather handy. Finally, being able to defog with the lowered chance of bisharp switching in is fantastic (and from what i can tell bisharp staying seems to be the majority).
I've seen a lot of Gligars with U-turn lately, so your post probably accurately expresses the sudden rise of using Gligar in this meta; however I wanted to point out that when running U-turn Gligar, it's always a good idea to run an IV or two lower (in speed) so that you always get the slow-turn, and hence the momentum goes in your favour against opposing Gligar. It's a small thing, but very important for a Gligar-turn set.
 

aim

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Bisharp was unbanned in the UU tier. You can find the thread here. How do you think the meta will be moving forward? I personally agree with the post by Amane about it being a bit early to test Bisharp, as I wanted to see how Zeraora made the uu meta shift.
 
Bisharp was unbanned in the UU tier. You can find the thread here. How do you think the meta will be moving forward? I personally agree with the post by Amane about it being a bit early to test Bisharp, as I wanted to see how Zeraora made the uu meta shift.
I personally think banning Bish was a knee-jerk reaction to the Latios Bisharp combo that was suffocating the tier for the one weekend they were both here, so I'm glad to see it back.

As for how I think Bish will impact the metagame, it's a massive offense boost. Hyper offense in particular is going to be more viable than it has been in a while. Shark spikes is going to be great, Suicide lead + 5 goons offenses are probably going to be better with it around too, not to mention rogue offenses like webs and veil
Pretty much anything that banks it's game on hazards/screens/high-paced gameplay is going to be inherently better

It'll certainly be interesting to see how Bisharp shakes things up.
 
So, Zeraora and Bisharp are UU now, and now with bisharp there are definately gonna be some changes, I think now that these changes are more settled, I'm gonna restate and share some of my own thoughts on what the upcoming meta will be like with Bisharp and Zeraora in it.


First of all, as Rose said above, Offense gets a boost for sure, whether it be straight Azelf HO, Spikes Offense, Webs, or more, Bisharp definately helps. A pokemon that can punish defog super well, which was only left to Tornadus-I before, a mon that was rarely used. It is a breaker, a sweeper with sucker punch, a typing thtat can check both Latias and Scizor, sucker resists are going to be very common on teams. Bisharp hasn't even been explored much either, with many options such as pursuit, rocks, low kick, and the ability to run a variety of items that could catch people by surprise. By no means is it like any pokemon we have in the metagame before Bisharp got unbanned. Bisharp could also fit on other team archetypes as well, but I see it fitting best onto more offense oriented teams, such as volt turn where it can get free switches, or the playstyle already called for aggresive doubles and playing where bisharp can get in, and then predict accordingly. Will Offense become the dominant playstyle? I'm not sure really, offense now has access to two great fat breakers in Bisharp and Zeraora. Zeraora can also act as an offensive pivot through the use of volt switch [If only it got u-turn, banded u-turn oof]. Balance and Bulkier teams in general will have to get creative by fitting in mons that can check these new threats [Will talk about some mons that have really gotten better from the drops] while not being unviable because it cant deal with everything. Overall, while I was first against having Bisharp in the tier, i'm curious to see what will happen in terms of trends and viability of different mons that were otherwise unseen before.

This, this guy right here. I have some things to say. Sucker Punch resist, coverage to hit everything it needs to, good attack, good abilities. We have a threat on our hands. Not only does Sharpedo add a lot of role compression onto offense teams, it can do SO MUCH. Shark was already a threat before it dropped, but due to the plethora of defoggers that Klefki couldn't spike on and deal with, Shark Spikes wasn't the most used things [at least in tourneys]. Now I see a different story, I feel this is going to be one of the biggest threats in the metagame due to being one of the best cleaners. With the right support, it has one hell of a time. It now has a friend in something that can punish and beat most defoggers in the tier, and while it does stack weaknesses, its worth it in sharks case. Because along with a defog punisher, Bisharp can also weaken the steel types that Sharpedo can't easy break through, beat the fairy types that usually counter sharpedo, and they just synergize so well together in my opinion. I may not be the most knowledgeable in hyper offense, but as I said in this and before, Bisharp gives the playstyle a HUGE boost, not only in spike stack but all forms of offense. I can see Shark making a huge boom and just wrecking its way through team after team.


I absolutely love this. Now you may be thinking: "Why use this over Nidoking?? Nidoking has more power, more speed, and is just better!!1!" The difference is the bulk, and because of said bulk, it can check so many things in the meta. Not only is it a ground type, which blocks volt switch. It walls Zera [Bar knock off, losing black sludge sucks] and manectric, two very prevelant electric types. Though personally I see manectric usage dropping off a bit, but thats another story. It's typingg also allows it to check one of the scariest breakers in the meta terrakion, resisting both stabs and only really being afriad of EQ [on band rak], which can be scouted for if you have another check of terrak. It does so much in terms of checing things, fairy type switch in, fighting resist, electric immunity, and it has a bunch of utility outside of this too. Stealth rocks, Toxic Spikes, SO MUCH COVERAGE, Sheer Force, lots of moves that abuse said ability. Earth Power is a must on nidoqueen, as it allows you to hit a plethora of relevant mons that it can check. The rest of the moves you can use are very customisable. Need a rocker? Put on Stealth rocks! Want to make sure you kill scizor? You got flamethrower! Want to kill fairies? Use Sludge wave! I think you get the idea. Nidoqueen really shines in the current meta when it was hidden under sheets of other ground types, namely hippowdon, that outshined it before. If you haven't tried Nidoqueen yet i'd give this mon a try because it is really good right now.


The Oven. The floating oven. From being outclassed by its lawnmower brother, it is now one of the best electric types, fire types, floating mons, this thing does too much to list. First off all: Let's talk about its typing Fire/Electric. This is amazing right now. Not only does it check flying types amazingly, it also checks scizor and mamoswine, the latter having very few switch ins that can come in without worry. Not only does it check a plethora of things, like nidoqueen, it also has so much utility. Defog, Pain Split, Toxic, Thunder Wave, Will-o-Wisp, Volt Switch, and probably more that I don't even know about. The role compression is insane. It's already been talked about quite a bit in VR, but i'm talking about it here anyways. It fits on a lot of playstyles too: Balance, Bulky Offense, even more offensive builds. It just can fit onto so much because of what it does, and how well it does it. Can pressure its checks through its utility in toxic, thunder wave, pain split, etc. Checks a plethora of mons. TLDR; use this floating oven.


After its evolution raised to OU, people didn't think much of this guy. Little did they know it would become one of the best defoggers in the tier. It's sheer bulk is incredible. Ground/Flying is a good typing rn, checks fighting types, electric types, you get the gist, and like its evolution, it fears ice type coverage which is becoming much more rare. Though it does fear knock off from the likes of zera and bish, it can check both of these very well. Oh, I did say it was one of the best defoggers, thats cause it can beat most rockers in the tier. It struggles vs. the water type rockers but besides that, it's pretty damn solid. Also with utility in u-turn to gain momentum, and cool tech like curse. I didn't go as into depth with this one but I really like this mon right now, works really well on balance and even a cool pick on bulky offense if it is running u-turn. Good utility, good bulk, I approve of you little Gliscor.


Fighting types became even better with bisharp being unbanned, but there are a few in particular I want to talk about here. First is Terrak, this w as already on the rise even before Bisharp dropped, and it keeps getting scarier, if it wasn't for scizor i'd see rock polish running rampant everywhere. Banded, SD, even Rocks Lead is getting better, just a really solid mon that takes advantage of a lot of trends. Next up, Lucario, another one of the scariest wall/stallbreakers in the tier. Nasty Plot, priority, strong stab combination, yeah, you get the gist. Not much can safely switch into and deal with this monster, and like terrak, usually has to be revenge killed to be dealt with. It deals with a lot of current threats like sharpedo, bisharp, terrak, etc, and the likes that are weak to vacuum wave. One again, just really hard to deal with once it gets going. Next is the one I mainly want to talk about, and I know this is probably going to be a shorter section but oh well. Chesnaught is one of the better defensive checks to things like bisharp, zeraora, and quite a bit of things. It provides spikes, can pressure water types, has recovery, and overall just, good pick. Fits on bulkier teams better and gives an interesting take on spikes that isn't just pure offense like most are, I've been playing around with a bulky spikes team and it''s been doing pretty well. This mon does have its downsides, letting in dragon types fairly freely [bar drei if you have drain punch] and it is quite passive so a lot of things can use it as setup bait. While it does have its downsides, its a cool choice. Oh, I also forgot its ability, Bulletproof is cool, Kommo-o has that too, rip special ability that only chesnaught used to have.

Um.. what else to say.. to be honest i'm not sure right now, I said what I wanted to so i'm gonna leave it here. Bisharp pushes the meta in an interesting direction and only time will tell once it begins to settle, because let's be honest, it is a bit chaotic right now. There are some mons that really rose to shine while others are beginning to cline, the very common hippoleon [hippowdon+empoleon] core is being beaten slowly by more things and people are finding ways around it, causing a decline of mainly hippo to other ground types such as nidoqueen and gligar spoken of before. By no means is Hippowdon bad though. Also Manectric may not be the favorable pick of electric type anymore, being prefered over the likes of zeraora or rotom heat, as both do not take up the mega slow and just have either better utility, or coverage, while manectric is in an odd midpoint of the two. There is a lot to explore and let's see what we can come up with. Once again thanks for reading the essays I write, I don't now why they end up this long :blobastonished:. Okay enough blabbering i'll go now bye :blobnom:.
 
I personally agree with everything mentioned above and am glad bisharp was unbanned. As of right now the ladder is so heavily balance oriented that imo it gets kinda stale to continuously play against. I guess on one hand you could say the ladder is consistent and less volatile but I think it's a good thing that bisharp and zeraora are in the tier to shake it up a bit.

As already covered we will see a resurgence of HO playstyles running Bisharp to pressure the defog users in the tier. And while webs gets better they can also be used against you vs opposing bisharp so it would be cool to see how opposing HO play around eachother. As for Balance it will still be extremely prominent but it will obviously have to adapt to the new additions but that can be stated with any new drop.

I feel most people struggle to see or arent aware there are counter plays to bisharp to begin with which is why it was radarred in the first place. You'll probably see a rise in Will-O-wisp users on things like Gengar, Rotom-H and moltres for example to potentially play around sucker punches and punish bisharp if a team doesn't have a dedicated answer. Of course there are the prominent checks to it in the tier such as Cobalion, Infernape, Chesnaught etc.

I also believe nasty plot lucario and infernape, maybe bulky infernape as well I guess, will rise in usage to deal with bisharp and avoid it's priority. Not to mention how amazing they are in the tier currently. I have personally experienced how much work lucario does vs balance and in the right circumstances HO. So as I've shown there are both offensive and defensive answers to it which are pretty splashable to put on teams as they do more than just check or force out bisharp. E.g. Chesnaught checks both zeraora and bisharp but also other prominent threats such as Crawdaunt, Stakataka, being the best spike user imo and stacking residual chip dmg against teams etc.

The only thing I can say I dislike about bisharp would be the 50/50 scenarios it creates however I don't think it's bad enough to consider it broken by any means as you only get 8 sucker punches and as listed above you can catch them off with Will-O-wisp.

Summary:

Overall I am glad to see bisharp back and eager to see new sets emerging because of its introduction back into the tier. As for the meta it should stay relatively the same but HO becoming a very strong playstyle that's a lot more viable. Balance will still be everywhere as they can easily adapt their teams with defensive or offensive checks listed above and It should be a lot more fun to play on the ladder.
 
Bisharp back in will surely make the tier change a lot. Got to agree with Amane Misa, the suspect test was held way too early we couldn't test Zeraora enough. On a good note, Bisharp will help some mon to rise in usage and in the tier such as Chesnaught, Lucario (granting him an even stronger place in the tier now). The Defog pressure it offers will surely help offensive teams to rise. As mentionned above i'm glad to see that suicide lead will be stronger now than it used to considering we finally got a solid Defog pressure but on the other hand i think it gives way too much pressure. Bisharp will be a huge pain for fat teams cause of this.

Defo looking forward to see how the tier will turn with it back in with Zeraora.

(Now that Amoon is back too please consider suspecting Breloom in again, Chesnaught checks dem all, love)
 

justdrew

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Shiba mentioned Terrak to me which made me want to write this post. I think it's time to talk about how centralizing this mon right here is.


There are three indisputable hard counters to CB Terrak

-mega takes less


(252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 165-195 (41.8 - 49.4%) -- 24.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery) - Literally the only way for Terrakion to knock out Slowbro is for it to land both Stone Edges and have one of those crit. The disgusting part is that Terrakion actually has decent wiggle room around these two walls with Toxic.

(252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 118-141 (35.3 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock) - Then there is Gligar who is a great hard counter barring Stone Edge crit or +2 Z Stone Edge. - (+2 252 Atk Terrakion Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 283-334 (84.7 - 100%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)

Keep in mind SD Rockium Z bops Slowbro making Palossand the only hard counter to all Terrak sets.

There are three viable Pokemon that arent 2hko'd by either CB CC, EQ, or SE (That I could think of in my tired state).



(252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 40 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 243-286 (50.5 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery) - Protect keeps Alo from being dying.

(252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 184-217 (48.5 - 57.2%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery) - Ik this mon is 2hko'd this is just to prove how wack Terrak is.

(252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 187-222 (44.5 - 52.8%) -- 25% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery) - Hippowdon has to be max defense Bold to live a CC which means gl having your Hippowdon switch into Mega Man or Hydreigon - (252 SpA Manectric-Mega Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 178-210 (42.3 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery , 252 SpA Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 271-319 (64.5 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery)

(252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 154-183 (34.6 - 41.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery) - Well defensive Cress is a good switch in if it has a lot of defense investment. Still seems a bit ridiculous that we have to pull all these otherwise bad Pokemon from RU to check one mon.

(252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 154-182 (47.8 - 56.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock) - This Pokemon checks given the right prediction but if you predict wrong cya!

I understand that Terrakion brings a little variety to the meta, gives some rarely seen Pokemon good usage and that's all good stuff. But in my opinion Terrakion buts way too much pressure on both stall and offense. Like the best way to deal with Terrakion on stall is to have Mega Slowbro with Alo to provide Wish support and protect stall out moves or Mega Altaria plus Alomomola. Leaving stall with the choice of 2 mega slots seems dumb for me. If you can think of other ideas cool but I bet they require a lot of prediction. With Bisharp in the tier Terrak is like the best way to counter sweep offense. And a while back Kink made a post with a bunch of defensive calcs for Terrakion. The mon isn't frail at all, it can take shots. Everything that forces Terrak out has a reliable switch in, yet Terrak has none. So eventually Terrak will win the switch out war. Tbh I don't know why this Pokemon isn't S tier in VR. I mean it fits on the same amount of archetypes Scizor and Lati do. It has close to the same amount of sets they do. It's just as splashable, useful, and threatening. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's suspect worthy, but I do think this mon is a bit too much. There isn't enough to keep Terrak inline and it forces all its switch ins to go mostly/fully defensive leaving them weak to special attacks they once ate. This is kinda a VR post but I feel like it could go in either thread. Curious what everyone else thinks.
 
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