Metagame USUM UU - General Discussion & Trends Thread!

aim

pokeaimMD
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#1
approved by AmbipomTTT supporter Pearl
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Moving forward with UU, this will be the new main thread to discuss UU, UU changes and current UU trends. A catch all thread for UU players, newbies and veterans alike! Feel free to also ask questions about team help, the tier or anything else UU related.

UU Resources:






Feel free to join the UU discord for live discussions!
https://discord.gg/zQckyDE





Let the UU discussion begin! :]
 

Attachments

#2
Really excited for this new thread, just wanted to post about a mon I've really been liking rn, even if I've been kind of dead for the past few weeks and wasn't motivated enough to join majors. Will probably add more later since I'm kinda rushing this rn.
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Rotom-Heat @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 236 HP / 16 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Overheat
- Toxic
- Defog

Fat Rotom-Heat was something I was not very keen on until recently. I've always preferred full offensive Rotom, even when it was basically my only countermeasure to birds like Moltres. I also believed that HP Grass was the best slot for the 4th slot. However, this all changed when someone showed me a calc of Flyinium Moltres OHKOing Rotom-H with Hurricane into Supersonic Skystrike with rocks (you don't even need rocks if you don't get unlucky with your rolls). From then on, I decided to be hooked on fat Rotom and I've really been liking it. Moves are pretty much self-explanatory, 236 HP is for Iapapa berry. 16 special attack is for onion fairy/Celebi.

Florges-Blue_XY.gif


Florges-Blue @ Leftovers
Ability: Flower Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Defog
- Synthesis
- Wish

So I've been liking Florges a lot more than Sylveon rn due to the fact that it essentially has 2 more moves over Sylveon and has good role compression and it looks more aesthetically pleasing. Set is pretty self-explanatory. Also blue Florges is the best and don't let anyone tell you otherwise (never use yellow Florges btw).
 
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#3
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Infernape is a mon I have come to like quite a lot in the current metagame. The Life Orb + Slack Off set is something that I really enjoy using as of late, and I think it's really potent vs a lot of teams. Obviously, this mon still has other sets that are fantastic in the metagame such as the Nasty Plot Fightinium Z set. Choice Scarf Infernape is falling out of favor in preference of Scarf Krookodile usually, but it's definitely still a viable option. Overall, a solid mon and I would like to see where the meta can go with this thing.
 

aim

pokeaimMD
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a defending World Cup of Pokemon Champion
#4
I'll most likely be double posting as I will be replying to post w/ replays or just general thoughts but i'm really happy that we were able to make a new thread. i legitimately found out today after many years on smogon that NP meant now playing LOL and wasn't a big fan of the last thread having m-venusaur as its main post and being somewhat dead/inactive. it sort of felt uninviting and I know a new player wouldn't really understand where to speak so to fix that we decided to "fuse" the old threads and use this as a catch all thread. simplistic also felt best! hoping to see a really active uu as I'd love to help grow my favorite sumo tier. thank you sage and pearl for the help. enjoy guys! :]
 

Rabia

IM ME, I DO ME, AND I CHILL
is a Pre-Contributor
#7
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Moltres @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Flamethrower
- U-turn
- Hidden Power [Grass]
This isn't the best set Moltres can run at all, but it fit really well on my team as a Scizor check that could provide pivot support with U-turn. While I'll definitely acknowledge that Latias is generally a better Choice Scarf user, especially considering what the two offensively check, the defensive utility is what sold me (especially burn body :^]). I've been considering testing stuff like Roost > Hidden Power Grass for a few reasons: 1) less Swampert and Rhyperior = less need for Grass-type coverage, 2) Roost lets Moltres switch into Choice Band Scizor more often especially useful if Flame Body is being a bitch and not giving you the luck), and 3) the core of the set doesn't rely on Hidden Power Grass so frankly, that last slot can be anything from Hidden Power Grass to Roost to Toxic even (Toxic sounds kinda nice for fat Water-types like Mantine and friends.. hm). Overall been a fun set that has worked.

Also wanna give a shoutout to my main man Kommo-o. This Pokemon is legit ridiculous with even just the standard Dragon Dance set, and playing mindgames against Fairy-types is real cool (Poison Jab v. Devastating Drake usage).
 
#8
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SM UU has been an insanely volatile tier since its inception, especially over the last 12 months or so, including the bans, drops, and rises of many metagame defining Pokemon. Some of these include Weavile, Mega Latias, Azumarill, and Mega Venusaur just to name a few. However, I'd argue the most impactful change was the departure of Gliscor. It's sheer presence was possibly the most centralizing force in the tier due to its ridiculous versatility and ability to basically invalidate certain team frameworks. Although there have been a huge amount of changes that played a role as well, I don't think it is a coincidence that after Gliscor left, we have come across undoubtedly the most free-flowing, and really just the most fun edition of SM UU. I'll be using this post to zoom in a bit on some of the mons that have proved to be huge beneficiaries of Gliscor's rise a couple months ago.

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Terrakion @ Choice Band
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Filler

Once finding itself in the depths of B+ (maybe B idr), Terrakion has evolved into one of the tier's premier wallbreakers, primarily with its Choice Band set. Gliscor leaving obviously really opened the door for this thing to come in and kill everything. Sure, Gliscor wasn't exactly a safe switch before, but its constant presence seemed to always dissuade Terrak from clicking its most powerful move in Close Combat, and well, hitting 2 Stone Edges is a bitch, especially considering they can switch the following turn. Additionally, fitting Terrak on teams has never been easier due to the tier's aforementioned free-flowing state, allowing the user to cover its weaknesses and place a competent team around it more smoothly. Though I've mostly focused on the CB set, Terrakion obviously has a potent Swords Dance set in its arsenal that, due to Gliscor's presence, was previously forced to run Rockium Z. Fightinium Z is now a good option as well, allowing Terrak to muscle past some softer answers like Hippowdon, Swampert, and Seismitoad.

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Nihilego @ Electrium Z / Black Sludge / Expert Belt / Rockium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave
- Thunder / Thunderbolt
- Grass Knot / Power Gem
- Stealth Rock / Protect / Toxic Spikes / other cool stuff

Man I loved this Pokemon even when Gliscor was around. Nihilego obviously holds the same role it did before Gliscor's departure, offering a unique blend of coverage, a reliable hazard setter, and some nice defensive utility, but it is no longer forced to run HP Ice. Previously, hazard setting sets would be forced to pick between punishing Gliscor with HP Ice or nailing bulky Ground-types with Grass Knot. With Gliscor being the dominant presence it was, I would often opt for HP Ice, ultimately limiting Nihilego's ridiculous potential in exchange for catering to one threat. Currently, Nihilego can quite literally do whatever the hell it wants. It remains one of the tier's more reliable hazard setters, but Nihilego now has the breathing room necessary to act as a consistent threat to balance or bulky offense teams, mainly due to its speed tier and coverage. Protect is something new that has popped up, letting it scout Pursuit users like Krook and Sciz, and punish them accordingly. So yeah, this thing got even cooler with Gliscor's rise.

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Manectric-Mega @ Manectite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Grass] / Signal Beam / Hidden Power [Ice]

Ah yes, the Pokemon that made many people doubt the benefits of Gliscor leaving. Similarly to Nihilego but in a more abrupt way, any viable Mega Manectric set was forced to run HP Ice to avoid being outright walled by the tier's premier Volt Switch immunity. Gliscor leaving opened up a couple interesting coverage options for old Mega Manectric in HP Grass and Signal Beam. The increased viability of HP Grass really hurt some of Mega Manectric's most sturdy forms of counterplay such as Swampert, Rhyperior, and Seismitoad, in exchange for a worse matchup against Dragons (which can be Volt Switched on anyway). Similarly, Signal Beam picked up a bit of popularity, letting Mega Mane punish some common offensive switch-ins like Latias, Hydreigon, and Krookodile, easily netting the 2HKO on all three with rocks up. While not unmanageable by any means, preparing for Mega Manectric has gotten more and more annoying as of late, and it is mostly due to the newfound coverage options made available by Gliscor's departure.

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Gligar @ Eviolite
Ability: Immunity
EVs: 248 HP / 156 Def / 104 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Roost
- U-turn / Knock Off / Toxic
- Defog / Stealth Rock

Perhaps the biggest beneficiary of Gliscor leaving was its previously unviable base form, Gligar. All of the threats I've mentioned to this point have gotten better simply because they no longer have to account for Ground / Flying fat pivots. That's where Gligar comes in. Gligar's immense physical bulk actually lets it pivot into threats like Choice Band Terrakion, SD Cobalion, and (Ice Fangless :cwl:) Mega Aerodactyl better than Gliscor ever could. Additionally, mons like Mega Manectric, Nihilego, and Mega Altaria very rarely run Ice coverage anymore, something almost entirely necessary at times to deal with the Ground bat thing, allowing Gligar to commonly sit it on all of them. These naturally more common favorable one-on-one matchups and of course without the direct competition of Gliscor for team slots combined to sky-rocket Gligar's viability in the current UU metagame. Sure, it does have its flaws and isn't metagame defining or anything, but it heavily capitalizes on the metagame shifting away from people always attempting to have 72 different ways of punishing Gliscor.
 

yeezyknows

warhols on my wall paint a war story
is a Tiering Contributor
#9


One of the coolest mons in the tier rn, it's pretty insane how much role compression you get with it: a fairy, a flying resist, a rocker, and a cleric all in one. Diancie's also surprisingly not passive, with diamond storms and moonblasts having respectable damage output. Diancie also has great synergy with common regen mons like amoonguss and slowbro, making a potent and easily spammable defensive core for balance builds. Definitely an underrated mon to try out if you haven't already.
 

aim

pokeaimMD
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a defending World Cup of Pokemon Champion
#11
^_^ one thing that really caught my attention from your snake games McMeghan was assault vest mienshao vs rob. Getting chip damage with knock off + fake out/u-turn is awesome and the thing that sets it apart from other fighting types that can give momentum (u-turn ape or volt switch cobalion) is regenerator not allowing hazards and weakened attacks like hydreigons dark pulse to wear it down. Being a speed tier above Nihilego is also a plus. I don’t think any fighting type in the tier could do what mienshao did that game or in general really. Slack off ape doesn’t have the slot for u-turn and wastes a turn recovering that regen doesn’t. Kind of reminds me of torn-t in ou, coming in, annoying with knock off and u-turning out. Obviously there are some downsides. hjk being weakened since no reckless and your stab missing, but the damage that mienshao manages to get off is worth the risk as for the most part you are opening up a door for another Pokemon to abuse the momentum/damage Mienshao has gotten off. Cool pick man
Replay:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7uu-397667
 

Hogg

grubbing in the ashes
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UU & Tour Head
#12
Stats are out from the first stage of Snake...

Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Krookodile         |   21 |  52.50% |  52.38% |
| 2    | Slowbro            |   11 |  27.50% |  63.64% |
| 2    | Hydreigon          |   11 |  27.50% |  36.36% |
| 4    | Latias             |   10 |  25.00% |  40.00% |
| 5    | Scizor             |    9 |  22.50% |  55.56% |
| 5    | Empoleon           |    9 |  22.50% |  55.56% |
| 7    | Togekiss           |    8 |  20.00% |  87.50% |
| 7    | Tentacruel         |    8 |  20.00% |  75.00% |
| 7    | Infernape          |    8 |  20.00% |  62.50% |
| 10   | Terrakion          |    7 |  17.50% |  42.86% |
| 10   | Aerodactyl         |    7 |  17.50% |  28.57% |
| 10   | Moltres            |    7 |  17.50% |  28.57% |
| 13   | Rotom-Heat         |    6 |  15.00% |  50.00% |
| 14   | Cobalion           |    5 |  12.50% |  80.00% |
| 14   | Manectric          |    5 |  12.50% |  60.00% |
| 14   | Nihilego           |    5 |  12.50% |  60.00% |
| 14   | Aggron             |    5 |  12.50% |  60.00% |
| 14   | Gligar             |    5 |  12.50% |  40.00% |
| 19   | Blissey            |    4 |  10.00% |  50.00% |
| 19   | Florges            |    4 |  10.00% |  50.00% |
| 19   | Altaria            |    4 |  10.00% |  25.00% |
| 22   | Palossand          |    3 |   7.50% | 100.00% |
| 22   | Magneton           |    3 |   7.50% |  66.67% |
| 22   | Klefki             |    3 |   7.50% |  66.67% |
| 22   | Celebi             |    3 |   7.50% |  66.67% |
| 22   | Amoonguss          |    3 |   7.50% |  66.67% |
| 22   | Kommo-o            |    3 |   7.50% |  66.67% |
| 22   | Primarina          |    3 |   7.50% |  33.33% |
| 22   | Bronzong           |    3 |   7.50% |  33.33% |
| 22   | Suicune            |    3 |   7.50% |  33.33% |
| 22   | Hippowdon          |    3 |   7.50% |   0.00% |
| 32   | Sharpedo           |    2 |   5.00% | 100.00% |
| 32   | Tsareena           |    2 |   5.00% | 100.00% |
| 32   | Registeel          |    2 |   5.00% |  50.00% |
| 32   | Haxorus            |    2 |   5.00% |  50.00% |
| 32   | Mantine            |    2 |   5.00% |  50.00% |
| 32   | Stakataka          |    2 |   5.00% |  50.00% |
| 32   | Jellicent          |    2 |   5.00% |  50.00% |
| 32   | Rotom-Mow          |    2 |   5.00% |  50.00% |
| 32   | Silvally           |    2 |   5.00% |  50.00% |
| 32   | Steelix            |    2 |   5.00% |   0.00% |
| 32   | Articuno           |    2 |   5.00% |   0.00% |
| 32   | Blastoise          |    2 |   5.00% |   0.00% |
| 32   | Nidoqueen          |    2 |   5.00% |   0.00% |
| 32   | Bewear             |    2 |   5.00% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Kyurem             |    1 |   2.50% | 100.00% |
| 46   | Doublade           |    1 |   2.50% | 100.00% |
| 46   | Alomomola          |    1 |   2.50% | 100.00% |
| 46   | Rhyperior          |    1 |   2.50% | 100.00% |
| 46   | Diancie            |    1 |   2.50% | 100.00% |
| 46   | Crawdaunt          |    1 |   2.50% | 100.00% |
| 46   | Mamoswine          |    1 |   2.50% | 100.00% |
| 46   | Decidueye          |    1 |   2.50% | 100.00% |
| 46   | Mienshao           |    1 |   2.50% | 100.00% |
| 46   | Beedrill           |    1 |   2.50% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Reuniclus          |    1 |   2.50% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Barbaracle         |    1 |   2.50% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Metagross          |    1 |   2.50% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Froslass           |    1 |   2.50% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Azelf              |    1 |   2.50% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Tornadus           |    1 |   2.50% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Sceptile           |    1 |   2.50% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Starmie            |    1 |   2.50% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Pyukumuku          |    1 |   2.50% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Salazzle           |    1 |   2.50% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Snorlax            |    1 |   2.50% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Feraligatr         |    1 |   2.50% |   0.00% |
| 46   | Talonflame         |    1 |   2.50% |   0.00% |
Things of note:

Krookodile continues to be far and away the most splashable Scarfer in the tier (in addition to having a couple of other nice sets), providing that perfect mix of offensive and defensive utility, and had over 50% usage so far this tour.

The number two slot is very much indicative of recent meta shifts. Sharing the number two slot in usage and appearing on roughly one out of three teams is Hydreigon and Slowbro. Hydra definitely is not a major surprise... the omnipresence of Krook has made it an effective alternative to Latias. It is probably the most effective offensive defogger in the tier right now, and we've seen a ton of other sets: Scarf, Specs, various Z-move sets, LO Taunt. Slowbro is a bit more of a surprise, but its ability to check major offensive threats like Terrakion multiple times throughout a game is really clutch, and in addition to its great defensive utility it can also provide support or be a potent wincon all on its own (especially with a Mega stone).

Latias isn't far behind those top three, and is still quite effective. Choiced sets have dropped pretty heavily in usage, most likely because they are super vulnerable to trapping and this is a Pursuit-heavy meta, but it has the ability to just sweep through teams in a way that other offensive dragons like Hydra could only dream of doing, and it's still one of the 'mons most likely to just turn a game around. We've been seeing some cool alternative sets here, like Roro's screens + HW Lati, but for the most part CM still rules the roost.

Our two most prominent Steels, Scizor and Empoleon, share the number five slot. I don't think this is necessarily some indication that either one is suffering in this meta—both 'mons are as effective as ever—but as the meta has settled over the past few months, neither feels as dominant as they once did.

There are other interesting takeaways from the stats, but those were the big ones, and I think they're pretty reflective of the general metagame shifts we've seen lately. I really like the meta as it stands right now, by the way; there's a really healthy mix of both stability and innovation. Looking forward to seeing more interesting developments in Snake, Majors and Slam playoffs.
 
#14
Honestly I find the typing most easy to spam in current UU tier are Fighting types because they're so scary and every fight type does something different for sure and are easy to fit on most builds(except stall builds), if you need an SR user you can run Cobalion, Terrakion its a great hard hitter and sweeper, Kommo-o and Infernape are both amazing breakers and lures, you have almost infinite options. You have on this list Terrakion / Cobalion / Infernape / Kommo-o and even other ones less used as Heracross, Bewear, Luke, Croak and Mienshao this is why Slowbro has so much usage in the current tier because can check most fighting types in one slot even if really Slowbro its not that good but the defensive utility checking fighting types its huge. CM Mega-Slowbro with the right support on balance and stallish teams its very annoying to face, Tank Mega-Slowbro probably does better against certain offensive builds, while regular Slowbro offers you some good options without wasting a mega slot, best sets are probably Block one (more or less a recent trend to beat opposite stall and fat builds), probably my fav set its Icium-Z Slowbro cause hits big targets as Hydreigon, Celebi, Latias and Mega-Altaria.

If Hydreigon rises to OU, Nasty Plot Celebi + Pursuit will be scary to face because now Celebi faces 4mss syndrome because you wants Dazzling Gleam to hit Hydreigon but at the same time you need Earth Power for things such like Mega-Aggron, Muk-A and Empoleon, things as DD Kommo and Haxorus will be better for sure.
 
#15
I have really been enjoying comfey in this current metagame. It is able to switch in on dragons and fighting types such as hydreigon, kommo-o, and some variants of infernape. What really is its best selling point imo is that it has great utility. with uturn plus defog it finds great role compression hard to find in a meta without gliscor. It is able to act as a great pivot and I find it very effective in taking hits and uturning on out into heavy hitters such as mamoswine and hydreigon. Also, its abilities in triage and natural cure both have great utility with comfey which makes it even better.

All in all Comfey right now is very solid in being a great pivot and having great role compression in the current uu metagame.
 

Pearl

諦めない想いいつしか心繋げた
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UU Leader
#16
Question: Is it ok to discuss OU trends that have the potential to affect UU (ie: Hydreigon leaving, Latios dropping, Gliscor coming back, etc), or is that outlawed due to them relating to UU tangentially?
my personal policy regarding speculation around usage stats and potential changes of sorts is that it is completely fine as long as it doesn't become the primary focus of the discussion. it is technically related to the tier, so suppressing it entirely is nonsense in my eyes, but do remember that this thread is primarily focused on the current metagame and its evolution, and moving onto unknown territory is likely to derail the thread into discussion about scenarios which might not even happen in reality. basically, making nods at potentially big changes alongside other content works, but writing whole essays on the state of the ou metagame and usage stats is highly advised against. personally, i'm a little scared of zeroara as it stands, as it is an offensive pokemon that opens up doors to a lot of frameworks that appreciate mega manectric but tend to opt for other mega evolutions instead (with beedrill being a good example). that aside...



One of the coolest mons in the tier rn, it's pretty insane how much role compression you get with it: a fairy, a flying resist, a rocker, and a cleric all in one. Diancie's also surprisingly not passive, with diamond storms and moonblasts having respectable damage output. Diancie also has great synergy with common regen mons like amoonguss and slowbro, making a potent and easily spammable defensive core for balance builds. Definitely an underrated mon to try out if you haven't already.
seconding this! regular diancie is a pokemon i rediscovered after the initial mega diancie ban, and boy am i glad i decided to give it a chance. it does massive work against so many of the tier's best pokemon in a single slot and keeps rocks up reliably vs a huge amount of traditional defog users that aren't empoleon (ht vs. pasy in snake draft is a great example of that). its existence enables a lot of squads w/ uncommon pokemon that would never be able to exist otherwise

^_^ one thing that really caught my attention from your snake games McMeghan was assault vest mienshao vs rob. Getting chip damage with knock off + fake out/u-turn is awesome and the thing that sets it apart from other fighting types that can give momentum (u-turn ape or volt switch cobalion) is regenerator not allowing hazards and weakened attacks like hydreigons dark pulse to wear it down. Being a speed tier above Nihilego is also a plus. I don’t think any fighting type in the tier could do what mienshao did that game or in general really. Slack off ape doesn’t have the slot for u-turn and wastes a turn recovering that regen doesn’t. Kind of reminds me of torn-t in ou, coming in, annoying with knock off and u-turning out. Obviously there are some downsides. hjk being weakened since no reckless and your stab missing, but the damage that mienshao manages to get off is worth the risk as for the most part you are opening up a door for another Pokemon to abuse the momentum/damage Mienshao has gotten off. Cool pick man
Replay:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7uu-397667
i'll admit that i was extremely skeptical of this idea when roro originally showed it to me before the game. HOWEVER, after seeing how much work it did (even if a lot of it was due to the surprise factor against registeel), i couldn't help but to give it a chance as well, and it seems like we've reached an age so dank that even assault vest mienshao is good enough to be considered a viable pick. seriously. at the moment, i'm fully convinced that this thing's success wasn't just a one time thing and that it should be a solid niche pick alongside slowbro (but also amoonguss and other lesser regenerator pokemon). between a very high bp stab move, knock off's ability to universally cripple incoming switch ins, the combination of u-turn + regen and fake out for chip, it has basically all of the tools to perform against standard formations, and after a couple ladder runs, mienshao proved to be a lot more viable than i expected it to be at first. there's a big recency bias in my statements and i could definitely be wrong here, but the chance for this one to pass the past of time and become something other than a novelty set is surely there.

there are a couple other things i'm looking forward to posting in the near future, but uu majors and grand slam make it very hard for me not to want to keep a couple cards closer to my chest :psyduck:
 
#17
First of all, huge props and thanks to aim for creating this thread, and I'll try to contribute and read when I can.

Now when it comes to UU, it is in a really good place right now, and it's been a lot of fun building, and battling really. There is no playstyle that is dominating the meta, both offense, balance, and stall alike are all able to be used effectively, though stall being a bit harder to build than others may be. I wanna put my opinion on mons that are thriving, and some of the trends i've been seeing.


The cool croc Krook. This is quickly becoming one of the most reliable scarfers, and pursuit trappers in the tier and offers so much role compression for teams. While slower than pokemon such as scarf hydreigon and latias, due to it's awkward speed tier, it still does what it does very well. It's Ground/Dark typing leaves it immune to electric, which allows it to be able to block volt switch [what makes mega manectric so annoying, its speed tier+volt switch], access to pursuit which allows it to trap troublesome ghost, and psychic types granted you predict right. It also has the ability intimidate, which lowers the attack of the opponent which really does give Krook a defensive aspect that is very appreciated. There is also it's rocks set, though due to not having much experience with it I won't be saying much about it. All in all, Kroo is rising to dominance as one of the most splashable scarfers in the tier next to hydreigon.


This, this dragon right here is rising to prominance as easily one of the most versatile pokemon in the metagame. It has so many sets, A classic Dragon Dance set with z move, rocker, mixed, specs, belly drum, probably more that i can't think of at the moment. The point is: this thing is scary. The part on top of it that makes it that much more, is it's choices of abilities: Bulletproof, Soundproof, and Overcoat. These are all great options as they can all let it take advantage of certain mons. You want it to get past it's check in sylveon and special altaria? Use soundproof, bye bye hyper voice! Want it to take advantage of Amoonguss' spore? Overcoat is there. Want just an overall nice move to take care of some choice locked mons or to take advantage of stakataka? Bulletproof blocks things like Gyro Ball and shadow ball. It just has so many options that it can be so hard to predict and deal with. Also it takes advantage of a choice locked krookodile, which choice scarf is it's best set right now. Sadly I havent been able to really play around much with it due to having troubles building, but it is a nasty balance breaker that can take advantage of so many meta trends [Such as my next few points.]


Another dark type that takes advantage of some of the meta trends, this lobster is such a menace to deal with. It's main two sets are Choice Band and Swords Dance, and both make it scary. With it's base 120 attack, and it's ability adapdability it makes its stab moves just that much harder to deal with. The thing that holds it back is its speed, which is only base 55 [If this was faster it probably wouldn't be UU right now]. But guess what? This can be made up with because it has Aqua Jet, a priority move that only really gets outsped by other priority. Choice band raises it's attack immideatly by 1.5x with the downside that it's locked into one move, but whatever switches in is going to get damaged, that's the problem, even resisted hits do so much due to the increase in attack and the stab boost due to its ability. Switch it in safely with u-turn or volt switch, and something will get damaged. Swords Dance boosts a pokemons attack by 2x in one turn, which is also really scary with the threat that it can use waterium-z to have a one time super strong nuke that can get past pretty much anything. All in all, Crawdaunt is a wallbreaker and a cleaner [due to it's access to aqua jet] that can punch holes in teams or clean through a weakened team easily if one is not prepared, it also appreciates common defensive cores such as the next two mons.


These two make one of the most solid defensive cores on balance currently, and cover each others weaknesses almost perfectly. Hippowdon is one of the most reliable stealth rock setters on balance and bulky offense. With access to recovery in slack off, options in toxic, whirlwind, fire fang [for scizor] and it's reliable stab move in Earthquake, there isn't much that can go wrong with the hippo. It's a ground type and the most reliable Mega Manectric counter in the tier due to it's sheer bulk. 108/118/72 is nothing to scoff at, meaning it can take so many unboosted hits, granted they are neutral. And hell, it even takes some super effective non-stab moves pretty well too. It's weaknesses are ice, water, and grass, and guess what teams with 2 out of the three of those? Next up is Empoleon, the penguin whose risen to the top as one of the most solid defoggers. This thing is good right now, water/steel is very appreciated to deal with a lot of threats such as primarina, latias [Granted it's not electrium-z] popular flying types like togekiss [non aura sphere] and moltres, and if it has roar, suicune as well. it's a very good special wall with 84/88/101 in it's defenses. It's main set currently is defog, and occasionally rocks [though typically in this core hippowdon is the rocker]. It does have it's drawbacks, unlike hippowdon, Empoleon's only recovery is through leftovers which means it can get easily worn down and broken past unlike it's partner, which typically can only get truly broken past when boosted or if it is toxic'd. Another downside is that it's best set in Defog, is beaten by some of the tiers most common rockers, Swampert and Hippowdon on balance, Cobalion on offense, and other picks that don't beat it as easily [it depends on coverage]. Overall, these two compliment each other very well and overall, do the jobs they need to. Like said above, some of the new meta trends can take advantage of this core such as crawdaunt and kommo-o, but there isnt much that can go wrong with this combo.


The fighting types of the tier, they all dominate in their own ways. First off all: these all take advantage of a pokemon called krook if it's locked into a dark type move. Let's say Krook pursuits your latias, and then you have a Terrakion or Infernape. Switch in your fighting type and set up to do some massive damage. Cobalion and Terrakion both take advantage of krook more than infernape due to their ability justified which means a +1 in attack if hit with a dark type move. Let's focus in on the notable fighting types starting with Terrakion. Oh boy is this thing fun to go against, it's most notable sets being Choice Band and SD with a z-move. It can do a lot of damage even to resisted hits if predicts aren't on point. Choice band similar to crawdaunt raises it's base 130 [Let's just assume it's that, 129 is close enough to 30] attack to astronomical levels, letting it break through almost any team without a slowbro, doublade or palossand [The three biggest checks/counters to terrakion]. SD with it's prospective z-move is a similar thing to crawdaunt, boost attack, hit really hard, simple as that. Cobalion adds a lot more to a team than just breaking power like terrakion does. It's main set is a Rocker with SD, which let's it boost and break, and also set rocks. With it's Steel/Fighting combo it can also check scizor which is still one of the best pokemon in the tier. It also has it's calm mind set [which is heat tbh] though like before, i don't have experience with it so I won't say too much about it, but htis allows it to get past it's common checks and counters due to being special instead of physical. Next up, infernape, the monkey. It's most common set right now is nasty plot and boy is it scary. Fire/Fighting stabs is really hard to resist with the only true counter being latias due to being able to outspeed and with access to roost [if chosen]. Infernape has all the options it needs, z moves to send off a powerful nuke, ways to boost itself, strong moves to throw off, priority, and options like grass knot. It has it all really. There are also it's other sets in Choice Scarf, Choice Band, Mixed Life Orb, Life Orb Slack Off, and the rare SD. Another very versatile pokemon that can do a lot. There is also it's Nasty Plot brother in Lucario, not as bulky as Cobalion, but can also break through unprepared teams pretty well. Sadly not as good of a speed tier as the three most notable ones above. There is also Kommo-o but the dragon was spoken about earlier in the post.


Now let's talk about this guy. Slowbro and his mega. These two are as good as ever in the metagame, with their typical calm mind sets, discovering it's potential with block, and well.. there's a lot to say here. Let's start out with it's base form. 95/110/80 in terms of bulk, water/psychic typing which allows it to check some of the tiers premier threats, and it's ability regenerator, letting it recover 1/3 of it's health once it switches out. This thing is great on it's own. With access to scald, reliable recovery in slack off, ability to set up if it wants, moves like toxic and thunder wave to cripple and annoy things, it has it all. The best set to use on regular slowbro right now [though don't quote me on this] is it's block toxic set with rest. Trap something like aggron, pert, etc with block, burn with scald or toxic, then stall. Hooray a wall is gone. With it's immense physical bulk not only can it trap walls, it can wall things as well, which just makes it that much better and more annoying, but I think we know what it does. There are also sets that use thunder wave, ice beam to lure it's checks, and much more. What can't slowbro do? Now let's assume it's a calm mind set, what is the one thing you don't want to happen if you are setting up? Get crit and lose everything you worked for. Now, turning to mega slowbro, that's solved with Shell Armor, which prevents you from being crit! Now it's bulk is even greater then before, boasting its stats at 95/180/80. Now that's a huge! boost to it's defense and it patches up it's special defense through the use of calm mind. This thing with enough boosts is so hard to kill without toxic [and if it has rest, too bad for you]. And what makes this even more great, even if you have the mega, you don't have to mega evolve right away, which let's you take advantage of the great ability normal slowbro has in regenerator. This thing is bulky, has the typing to wall tons of threats, and can just do so damn much in this current meta only really being stopped by the likes of special ghost, dark, and electric types like gengar, chandelure, hydreigon, and manectric. [There are other things that can break it but these most easily stop slowbro.]

There are a lot of mons that have fallen out of favor as well, such as swampert and rhyperior losing out as the premier checks to mega manectric, or rotom mow in favor of it's alternate form rotom heat due to mamo returning to UU from OU. Muk losing its spot as one of the best special walls and pursuit trappers, and a lot more really. It's amazing how much the meta has changed in such a short time due to drastic things such as Gliscor and Serp moving to OU, and some things at risk of dropping such as Latios or who knows what else. There is still a lot to explore in the current meta, and we'll see how it develops further on.

Honestly there is so much I could add to this, but these are the main points that i feel really show what the meta is leading towards. No one playstyle really dominates, fat has ways to beat offense, offense has ways to beat fat, and i don't really see one playstyle being super dominant [Though I do feel offense takes advantage of current trends better than balance does]. A lot of what is shown above is things that have been on the down low that have really risen to prominence from the changes that have happened recently, and i hope it stays this way for a while. This turned out to be a really long post due to how much there really was to talk about, and i'm sure there's even more, hopefully this can spark a bit of discussion of what other pokemon are rising that go with these trends, or are anti-meta and are able to beat the current trends. This is the most fun i've had in UU for a while and I'm hoping to be a better part of the community

Thanks to everyone who took the time to read my large blob of me ranting and saying who knows what, happy discussing! o/
 
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#18
This is great. I hope I can learn something about competitive pokemon on this thread. I've tried many times and can't seem to make any progress. I tried OU and I honestly didn't like the meta. My main problem I have in my opinion is that I love eevee and the family that I want to try and use effectively one of the eevee evolutions in this tier (mostly Espeon). However, I'm bad at teambuilding. Thanks for the thread.
 
#19
This is great. I hope I can learn something about competitive pokemon on this thread. I've tried many times and can't seem to make any progress. I tried OU and I honestly didn't like the meta. My main problem I have in my opinion is that I love eevee and the family that I want to try and use effectively one of the eevee evolutions in this tier (mostly Espeon). However, I'm bad at teambuilding. Thanks for the thread.
If you want to use one of the eeveelutions in the tier, then you can try Sylveon. While I personally believe Florges is a better pick, it's probably your best bet if you want to use one of the eevees rn. Welcome to UU by the way, I hope you enjoy this thread and you'll get better if you practice hard enough! You can check out something like the teambuilding bazaar or the teambuilding competition.
 

Moutemoute

Fluffy & Lazy ツ
is a Tiering Contributor
#20
Nice thread aim :psyglad:



Hydreigon is without a doubt, one of the most scariest threat you can face in the current Underused. I think it has never been better and versatile than now. Scarf, Specs, LO / Dragonium Z Taunt + Roost, Defog with Lefties or with Z-Dragon Pulse, Z-Belch.. It's insane how this Pokemon is good and hard to handle atm. Thanks to its typing, its ability Levitate and its overall good Bulk, you can play Hydreigon in any kind of archetype which shows how incredible this Pokemon is in the tier.



Terrakion is probably one of the Pokemon which has taken the fullest advantage of Gliscor's rise in Overused. Thanks to its typing and its sheer force, it shows up as one of the best Wallbreaker in the tier with its Choice Band Set and Swords Dance + Z-Close Combat / Z-Stone Edge. The important use of Hydreigon and Krookodile allows it to be a pain in the ass for a lot of team. In addition to its CB and SD sets, Scarf and SD Stealth Rocks are things you need to take into consideration when you face it.



Like Hydreigon, Kommo-o is another Dragon which gain in popularity during the last months. The emergence of Mixed set with SR + Taunt + 2 Attacks or Taunt + 3 Attacks make it even harder to deal with. DD, SD and Sub Belly Drum are still really good. Furthermore, the fact that this Pokemon has 3 really good ability that permit it to check / counter some threats (offensive and/or defensive) is a real advantage.


I recently made a team with Pyukumuku and I found it both really good and fun to use. Both Block/Soak/Toxic/Recover and Block/Spite/Recover/Rest are good in the current metagame and the fact that Pyukumuku is a pure water type allows it to deal kinda well with Freeze-Dry Mamoswine.



Like I said for Terrakion, Dark Spam is everywhere and Virizon has a pretty cool niche in the current tier. Thanks to its typing and good special Bulk, it can deal with Krookodile and take some hits from special sweeper like Scarf Hydreigon Fire Blast or Manectric Overheat. Its typing + Z-Stone Edge make it a pain in the stall for Stall.
 
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aim

pokeaimMD
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a defending World Cup of Pokemon Champion
#21
7711EEC1-A85D-4A31-BDA4-61318E89237E.png

I’m a huge fan of Mega Steelix as an alternative steel type to Mega Aggron. While it lacks filter, the resistances and Fire Punch (though it has fang), M-Steelix makes up for it with its electric immunity and strong ground stab. Being able to block volt-switch and threatening Manectric with an EQ or not allowing Empoleon in for free, something that EQless M-Aggron does, is a huge blessing for Steelix. Not to mention Curse + Gyro Ball makes steelix an offensive powerhouse and sand force lets it abuse the Hippowdon + Empoleon cores running around (provided they are running sand stream). +1 Gyro Ball with 20 atk evs does 100% min to Hydreigon! Allowing steelix to still run a ton of bulk for Latias/other Pokemon it resists.

Steelix-Mega @ Steelixite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 20 Atk / 236 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake
- Curse

Replay of Steelix in Tournament:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7uu-392076
 

Darksafadao

best of the second options
is a Pre-Contributor
#22
Hi, I would like to share my thoughts on a Pokemon I believe isn't as bad as people portray.

Alolan-Muk has been in an interesting spot since Gliscor's ascension to OU: at the same time it has lost one of the premier things that didn't care about Muk, it also means Fighting-types managed to get even better, meaning trouble for A-Muk.
But on this post, I wanna mainly adress why I believe A-Muk is worth running on some builds by listing its positive traits. Before that, I'll say it for sure doesn't appreciate the Fighting spam, so for sure when running Muk I'd have strong ways of hindering those. (btw Focus Punch is a cool option and watching Terrakion drop is funny).
  • A-Muk is still a great pursuiter. Yes, I still believe it has a big niche as a pursuiter. What really stands out for me about Muk from other pursuiters is how it can sort of avoid 50-50s because, different from other pursuiters, it doesn't only check the mons it wants to pursuit, it can reliably take hits from them. What I mean by this is that Scarf Krookodile and Mega-Aerodactyl can't reliably switch into Latias nor even take one hit really well, what they usually do is scaring Latias off by checking it, while Muk can just keep on pursuiting and taking hits and potentially avoiding those. It can also take on and pursuit specific Pokemon such as Nihilego and free up mons such as Togekiss. Being immune to Toxic is also pretty sweet, as long as having Ground as its only weakness.
  • A-Muk has bonus other than pursuiting such as having limited switchins. Since Gliscor left, it isn't easy to switch into Muk as before. Dark + Poison coverage is pretty solid coverage, Knock Off is one of the best utility moves in the game, and Poison Touch is great on this mon. Unless your team has a Mega Aggron, Mega Steelix or Terrakion, it probably is gonna be pretty annoying to switch into. Sure, you can go into Hippo or Swampert, but losing lefties + risking getting poisoned can open up a lot of doors for A-Muk's teammates. Also Knocking Off Krook's Scarf is pretty sweet.
  • It has an interesting stall match-up. A-Muk abuses its bulk and power with Gunk Shot to be a Pokemon that can be really effective at trapping Blissey. Pursuiting into baiting poison + the imminent threat of a Gunk Shot coming Blissey's way or even a Knock, hurting it and making it lose its lefties, means every time Blissey is on the field versus a Muk it's at disadvantage. Notice how Krookodile and Aero aren't as effective at this as Muk. This opens up the door for a lot of strong special attackers. Also, if your opponent isn't running Mega Aggron or Mega Steelix (opting for Mega Altaria or something), it gets even more annoying spreading Knock Off's and poison. Another cool factor is being able to keep baiting poisons on walls such as Alomomola by keeping on pursuiting it: As Pursuit keeps touching it, it'll eventually poison, and Muk can even Knock if they keep on staying in. Also notice it doesn't grant switchins to common clerics on stall, meaning the poison on Alomomola (in this example) can be exploited.
  • It is a good answer to a lot of new trends with limited answers. With the new trend of Block on Slowbro, I'd say Muk is one of the few mons that can switch into absolutely most Slowbro and Mega Slowbro sets and annoy them. Even if gets burned it can poison them, and once it does so stuff gets tougher for those two, or at least force Mega Slowbro to mega, making it harder for it to pivot around. It also is a great answer for Reuniclus, at least as long as it isn't Acid Armour (same for Iron Defense or Rest Mega Bro). It also keeps on being one great Latias, Chandelure, and Nihilego answers, punishing all of those hard.
With this, I'll finish my post by saying Muk has a lot of problems and that it is a momentum drain for some teams, but I strongly believe it should get more love.
 
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#23
Alolan Muk continues to be the best answer to Latias in my experience, so I don't know how countering the best Pokemon in the metagame isn't getting enough love. It's an excellent choice for Pursuit stall.

I can't wait to switch to Mega Latios and blow Muk up with Earthquake.
 
#24
This A-Muk point actually raises a point that I've been meaning to ask about: it seems like Latias has kind of fallen off in usefulness lately. Like it used to be a no-brainer pick because it could outright destroy a lot of its defensive checks (Scizor, A-Muk, Blissey) while still coming with the risk that it might be scarfed- it could neutralize those same checks with Trick or just clean out fast sweepers once the opponents walls were sufficiently worn down. Now it seems like there are a lot of problems for all of its sets and that it can no longer cover the territory it used to.

With Krook skyrocketing to the top of the meta (see usage stats for snake tour), mons like M-Manectric, Hydregion, Aerodactyl, A-Muk and Scizor all benefitting from Gliscor leaving, and other mons like Sharpedo, Empoleon, Klefki, and Mamoswine gaining prominence, I feel like Latias has really suffered on all fronts. Especially with regards to Krook, Klefki, Mamoswine and Sharpedo - all of these mons used to be kind of unviable or not part of the tier, and all of them have great utility against Latias. If Lati is your Defogger, you're going to risk eating a T-Wave/DG and not being able to stop Klefki from stacking spikes in your face. Mamoswine alone does 60-80% to Lati with Ice Shard, putting a massive burden on Scarf sets or other sets lacking Recover. Sharpedo is a menace for Latias because only Scarf can handle it, and Scarf is now a riskier set now that Empoleon's in the game. Speaking of Empoleon, this mon has had such a drastic effect on the meta that Latias is pretty much forced to run Electrium-Z or risk being walled. And (I know this is a rant but bear with me) that need to run Electrium-Z makes Krookodile all the more appealing, as it now resists 2 of Latias' 4 attacks. Not to mention that people run Crunch now specifically to OHKO Latias.

I don't really want to post this in the VR (mostly because I'm not ultra-familiar with UU), but I have been feeling like Latias is slipping a bit. Am I missing something?
 
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aim

pokeaimMD
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a defending World Cup of Pokemon Champion
#25
This A-Muk point actually raises a point that I've been meaning to ask about: it seems like Latias has kind of fallen off in usefulness lately. Like it used to be a no-brainer pick because it could outright destroy a lot of its defensive checks (Scizor, A-Muk, Blissey) while still coming with the risk that it might be scarfed- it could neutralize those same checks with Trick or just clean out fast sweepers once the opponents walls were sufficiently worn down. Now it seems like there are a lot of problems for all of its sets and that it can no longer cover the territory it used to.

With Krook skyrocketing to the top of the meta (see usage stats for snake tour), mons like M-Manectric, Hydregion, Aerodactyl, A-Muk and Scizor all benefitting from Gliscor leaving, and other mons like Sharpedo, Empoleon, Klefki, and Mamoswine gaining prominence, I feel like Latias has really suffered on all fronts. Especially with regards to Krook, Klefki, Mamoswine and Sharpedo - all of these mons used to be kind of unviable or not part of the tier, and all of them have great utility against Latias. If Lati is your Defogger, you're going to risk eating a T-Wave/DG and not being able to stop Klefki from stacking spikes in your face. Mamoswine alone does 60-80% to Lati with Ice Shard, putting a massive burden on Scarf sets or other sets lacking Recover. Sharpedo is a menace for Latias because only Scarf can handle it, and Scarf is now a riskier set now that Empoleon's in the game. Speaking of Empoleon, this mon has had such a drastic effect on the meta that Latias is pretty much forced to run Electrium-Z or risk being walled. And (I know this is a rant but bear with me) that need to run Electrium-Z makes Krookodile all the more appealing, as it now resists 2 of Latias' 4 attacks. Not to mention that people run Crunch now specifically to OHKO Latias.

I don't really want to post this in the VR (mostly because I'm not ultra-familiar with UU), but I have been feeling like Latias is slipping a bit. Am I missing something?
I still feel like Latias is extremely good, Gigavolt havoc + beam is my favorite set atm since you nab scizor, togekiss, suicune and dent other steels a lot, while also having ice beam for dragons/grounds like krook and also mega altaria. While i don’t feel scarf currently has a place due to how easily it is pursuit trapped, z lives knock and kos’s krook back. I guess because how splashable scarf krook is, people are more scared? to use latias, but it definitely hasn’t fallen from grace at all and can beat all its checks provided the right set

Just to go on a bit more, I do feel that hydreigon outclasses it atm purely as a defog user. Not being weak to pursuit and resisting krook's dual stab + spikes is a plus but definitely feel offensive lati has its place in the meta
 
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