USUM UU Viability Ranking Thread V3

[Musharnanigans]

Mega Ampharos: Unranked --> C-

Ampharos-Mega @ Ampharosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Volt Switch
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Mega-Ampharos has an amazing typing that lets it check many Pokemon in the UU tier while pressuring ground types like Krookodile with Dragon Pulse. I used to not think much of it until I actually used it as my Zeraora counter and now I am in love with it. Unlike Mega-Altaria, it has the added benefit of beating things like Moltres, Crobat, and Mega-Pidgeot which can be useful for some teams. Mold breaker also lets it ignore Zeraora's Volt Absorb ability meaning it can Volt Switch freely without having to worry about giving that Pokemon HP. It might have some flaws, but with the right team support it can be a viable member for a team if you are looking for a defensive electric type that can grab momentum with volt switch.

Here's a relevant list of everything it can beat or check:
CB Scizor (Locked into BP), Empoleon, Mega-Manectric, Moltres, Rotom-Heat and Rotom-Mow, Zeraora, Mega-Pidgeot, Volcanion, Amoonguss, Tentacruel, Crobat, Tsareena, and Chesnaught.

Replays of Mega-Ampharos putting in work:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-819241001
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-819729886
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-820979267
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-820974116
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-819756935
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-819007729

 

[Hilomilo]

Hey all, mini update incoming! The goal of this update was to implement some smaller changes that came from Zeraora's introduction to the tier, as well as getting Zeraora a starting rank. Hope you guys enjoy!

Changes

Rises

Added to A-

B- -> B

Drops

A+ -> A

B -> C+

Reasonings

• We decided to start Zeraora out in A- because of its solid offensive prowess, great set versatility, and its ability to free up the Mega slot for a lot of teams that would otherwise use Mega Manectric as their designated fast Electric-type pivot, which can be pretty crucial. It has a great offensive movepool that has allowed it to find use on teams as any one of a mixed pivot, sweeper, or breaker. The main reason that it's being put in A- for the time being is due to its struggles with longevity and breaking various portions of the metagame. It generally has less defensive utility than Mega Manectric, which is further compounded by its reliance on Life Orb for power on a lot of its sets. It also struggles to fit every move it'd like on any set, which has allowed teams to check it fairly comfortably with some trending Pokemon that naturally fit on teams, like Hippowdon, Amoonguss, Latias, and the rising Gligar. Whether it necessarily deserves to be a rank below Mega Manectric is still something to consider, though for now we decided that starting it off in the lower A ranks would be appropriate due to the fantastic attributes it provides despite its lacking defensive utility, so-so consistency, and a fairly healthy amount of counterplay available.
• Chesnaught is a trending defensive pick in the metagame that has been carving more and more of a niche for itself in recent weeks. A rise reflects its increased relevance and influence, as well as the strengths it can provide teams with that are more valuable than earlier on in the metagame, including a Zeraora check, a Pokemon that can pressure Water-types well, and a decent Dark-type switch-in. The increased exploration of Chesnaught Spikes as an archetype has allowed it to showcase its strengths nicely, which offsets its more notable flaws in the metagame well enough for higher placement to be justifiable.
• Mega Manectric is dropping from A+ due to Zeraora's introduction negatively impacting its influence in the tier. Zeraora directly competes with it as a faster and more versatile offensive Electric-type, while its ability to provide teams with more freedom regarding their Mega Evolution selection also eats into Manectric's niche. It still has a lot going in its favor, however, such as better defensive utility and more easily fitting most of its desired coverage onto its set, though the increased competition it has suffered has noticeably hurt its usage and opportunity cost, which is grounds for dropping by at least a subrank.
• Raikou struggles for a niche that isn't overshadowed for the most part in a metagame with Zeraora. Its access to Shadow Ball and higher Special Attack still give Calm Mind sets some merit, though for the most part it struggles significantly to do its job in a metagame filled with Ground-type Pokemon fully capable of tanking a Z-Move, while Zeraora's Work Up sets cover a larger variety of important threats and more adequately break past traditional counterplay. Its poor responses to a metagame that is increasingly hostile to it are enough for a two-subrank drop to be warranted at this stage, especially considering its lack of any recent exploration or tournament showings.

Since this was a smaller update and we're in the middle of a suspect test, we'll keep the discussion points the same for the time being, though I would like to bring up the possibility of either rising Zeraora or dropping Mega Manectric in the next update, which shouldn't be too long from now. The ranking council seemed to have mixed opinions on this matter, though the general consensus was that they're about the same in terms of viability due to the specific niches each offers. Mega Manectric can arguably perform its designated role more comfortably due to its ability to more easily fit coverage onto its moveset, while its access to Intimidate can be crucial for checking Pokemon like Mega Sharpedo and Scizor more reliably. Zeraora, however, does provide teams with more room for creativity given that it doesn't take up a Mega slot, while it also has the added benefit of much better versatility (more unpredictability by extension) and slightly better Speed. Whether they're close enough in viability to both be in either A or A- is a bit of a tricky call, so be sure to weigh in!

Hope you guys enjoyed! Keep up the great discussion we've had so far, be kind, and happy posting! :)

 

[aim]

Chesnaught from B -> B+

LOL i know it just got risen to B but make it higher.

This may be my bias showing now that we have a Bisharp suspect going on, but Chesnaught is absolutely fantastic. Not only does it wall Bisharp, but being able to spike up freely on Zeraora, another new drop that was unanimously voted to stay in the tier, is a huge plus. Obviously it still has the fact that it checks Krookodile/Crawdaunt/Cobalion/Sharpedo/Hippowdon/CB Scizor etc going for it, which is why it was B to begin with, but I feel now especially is a time to move it up. On balance I feel Chesnaught is a staple as a spiker, something that Klefki can't currently compete with, with the rise of Rotom-H. Chesnaught at least threatens it with drain punch + rocks upon switch-in, and has longevity in synthesis/drain punch/leech seed to allow it to play out in the long game, as well as its great ability in bullet proof. As the best spiker in the tier currently, especially with threatening Hippo + Empo, it deserves the raise.

I'd also like to spark discussion on Gligar but i'll leave that for another post.

 

[Pak]

Rotom-H: B+ to A-
So I was just scrolling through the viability rankings and noticed Rotom-H was next to stuff like Chandelure, Gengar, and Stak, and Muk, which really just didn't sit well with me. It's kind of dumb how splashable this thing can be, mainly because of its insane versatility and unique utility options. To put things in perspective, I've used Rotom-H 4 times in snake, and I've used 4 unique sets, all featuring some combination of Thunderbolt, Toxic, Defog, Thunder Wave, and Pain Split alongside the necessary Overheat and Volt Switch. In addition to checking some big threats like Scizor, Mamoswine, Togekiss, and mixed Mega Altaria (with Toxic), the amount of support it offers teams with these moves is p heat. All these utility options have different uses, so its reliable counterplay fluctuates completely, meaning you can either punish common middle grounds like Dragons or opposing Rotom-H by throwing out Toxics or grabbing easy momentum. Anyway, I don't want to go on and on about this, as obviously it has some issues like being rocks weak as a pivot and occasionally dealing with 4MSS, but its versatility and splashability put it on a level above most of what is in its current rank, at least in my mind.

 

[LRJ87]

I absolutly agree with Chesnaught and Rotom-H rising, they are both really, really good in the current UU Metagame

 

[Taptricity]

Ok going to first start this out that I strongly agree that Heattom should be A-. It feels so out of place among mons such as Starmie, Nidoking, and Alolan Muk. Heattom's role compression on teams is unparalleled to the point that it finds itself to be a staple on many successful teams. It has seen a lot of Snake usage and it is overall a really solid pick in the metagame especially when a bulkier spread was found for it due to the offensive variant having a subtle flaw in being broken by Specs Moltres. Heattom is overall just a fantastic glue if you need to patch up some holes on your team.

Now for my own nominations:

Clanger to A

This isn’t even bandwagon anymore Kommo-o really should be A. It’s snake usage and overall versatility attests to how cool of a mon it is at the moment. Mixed sets have found themselves to be used as a rocker on HO more often while sweeping sets are very splashable. It is an incredibly consistent Pokemon on Bulky Offense and other playstyles so I do think that a rise is in place for Kommo-o. It's overall incredibly good at filling a team slot and using that role to the fullest.

Nidoqueen to B-

Nidoqueen has really found its niche over the King. Nidoqueen just looks out of place with mons like Feraligatr and Decidueye. While Toxic Spikes haven't been great for a long time, Nidoqueen is a go to mon for this job. It's a good Mega Manectric and Zeraora check and it doesn't sacrifice too much offensive pressure. Nidoqueen can usually keep the T-Spikes up by the virtue of its coverage to scare out any hazard removal. Nidoqueen is an ok Scizor check if you need an emergency answer and it overall has a good matchup against the rising Pokemon in the tier. Overall, Nidoqueen's bulk gives it its merits over the King.

 

[Hilomilo]

This thread has been relatively inactive lately, and since I'm (sort of) starting to play around and build more again, I'd like to propose some changes that I had in mind for this upcoming update. Hope you guys enjoy!

Rises

B -> B+
I'm aware that this guy just rose, but I think that Crawdaunt's continued to gain traction and has established enough of a place for itself in the metagame to sit comfortably in B+. Its terrible Speed, typing, and frailty really don't allow it to contribute defensively to teams very frequently at all, but if it can get an opportunity to come in it's such a pain for just about any team to deal with. It abuses a lot of the metagame's defensive trends super well, maintaining a strong balance matchup because of the strength of Hippowdon + Empoleon cores and taking advantage of Slowbro's presence, Gligar's increasing traction, and Alomomola sort of falling off. Its ability to tank a hit or two from stuff like Choice-locked Scizor and Mega Sharpedo can also give it a decent offensive matchup, while it also appreciates the slightly decreased usage of breakers like Primarina and Heracross in favor of Water-weak options like Infernape, Mamoswine, and Terrakion. Fitting well on the rising Spikes builds we've been seeing is also a nice boon it's got going for it, and I think that despite its defensive flaws it's one of the scarier breakers right now and a rise would reflect its worth well atm.

B -> B+
Gligar is in a great place right now and is easily one of the best defensive Ground-types currently available. Its item reliance can hinder its ability to check foes like Krookodile as reliably, though I think its defensive niches are still extremely applicable and allow it to consistently perform and fit comfortably on balanced and even some bulky offensive builds. It's a pretty sturdy switch-in to banded Scizor sets since Knock Off really isn't seen on them too much while it does an excellent job checking a lot of other important presences, like Terrakion, Cobalion, Zeraora, and Hippowdon. Pokemon like Nihilego, Mega Manectric, and Mega Aerodactyl (Aqua Tail doesn't 2HKO) are also seldom running Ice-type coverage at this stage, allowing Gligar to more reliably punish them, though it needs Toxic to efficiently check the latter. It really just has a lot going for it at this stage and has a surprising amount of moveset customizability for a defensive Pokemon. I think B+ would perfectly reflect the place it's made for itself in the metagame.

B- -> B
Mega Blastoise still doesn't get a ton of usage, but I think that its response to some recent metagame trends has made it a strong enough pick for a rise to be reasonable at this stage, especially since I find the other Mega Evolutions in its rank to be a lot more niche and generally tougher to fit comfortably on teams. Mega Blastoise's main strength, in my opinion, currently lies in its ability to break past the majority of trending defensive Pokemon, muscling past a ton of the most prominent bulky Water-types, like Empoleon, Jellicent, and the Slowbros, with its coverage. It takes advantage of cores that often include these Water-types + a Ground-type like Hippowdon, Gligar, or Nidoqueen really well, giving it a strong balance matchup. It's also a serviceable check to a good amount of offensive threats, like Scizor, Krookodile, and Mega Aerodactyl, which gives it a decent amount of opportunities to come into play and begin breaking against offensive builds.

Drops

B+ -> B
This one may be a bit controversial but I really don't think that our offensive Ghost-types are in a good place in the metagame right now. Chandelure's typing is much less defensively applicable in a metagame where the premier Grass-type in Celebi doesn't provide it with reliable switch-in opportunities and where several of the common slower Pokemon it can punish with super effective attacks (mainly the Slowbros and Jellicent) don't let it in for free at all either. It also struggles to consistently pivot in on Scizor since with rocks down it's getting whittled to almost half health by Choice Band U-turn, making Fire-types with recovery options or more room for either defensive investment or a berry item, like Rotom-H and Moltres, a lot more reliable. It also struggles to combat the presence of several Dark-types, such as the rising Crawdaunt, Choice Scarf Krookodile, and Hydreigon, which in particular is the best it's ever been right now. While Gengar can more easily work around its Pursuit and Dark-type vulnerability with Focus Blast, I still don't think it has enough going for it to be as consistent or worthwhile as the rest of B+, which is why I think it should also drop. Choice Scarf Krookodile is only maintaining its presence as a revenge killer and punishes Gengar just as heavily as Chandelure, relegating it to really only one kill at most before removing it from play. It struggles to combat several other offensive trends we've seen, such as the rise in Spikes, a playstyle abused very well by Pokemon like Mega Sharpedo and Crawdaunt, and Zeraora's introduction to the tier. Nidoking and Nihilego are also proving their worth as really solid picks in the metagame which further eats into its niche and gives it pretty stiff competition. I just don't think either of these guys are too comfortable a fit in the current metagame in favor of other options, and their complete lack of appearances made across the entirety of Snake Draft thus far sort of speaks to how awkward they can be to fit on teams and use well.

B- -> C+
I think that all three of these Pokemon had previously solid niches in the metagame that have either diminished recently with meta trends working against them or just a relative lack of usage to prove their reliability. Bewear's Choice Band and Swords Dance sets directly compete with the plethora of great Fighting-types currently residing in the metagame, and while Fluffy provides it with a unique niche in theory, it just doesn't have the typing or Speed necessary to take advantage of it as well as it needs to, considering that several of the tier's best physical attackers hit it super effectively with STAB, carry Fighting-type coverage, or are Ground-types that can ignore its ability entirely and 2HKO it at worst with Earthquake. Bisharp theoretically joining us isn't even as much of a plus for it as it'd seem on paper, given that a +2 Z-Sucker Punch deals some pretty heavy damage (76.7% minimum). While it can still be pretty threatening under the right circumstances, I think it's a lot more niche now than earlier on in the metagame and drop would reflect that well. Rhyperior is just really hard to justify using over the tier's several other available Ground-types. It can't reliably check literally any Pokemon in ranks A- and above, primarily checks Pokemon with drastically decreased relevance (like Crobat and Pidgeot), can't easily circumvent its weakness to all the Fighting-types running around, and is punished hard by the majority of the tier's relevant Electric-types. The one thing it can hang its hat on is more reliably switching into Rotom-H than a lot of its competition, though it still has to look out for status or getting chipped by Pain Split, and this niche is relatively minimal compared to its many current drawbacks to being used. Toxicroak is still a potent sweeper with a unique STAB combination and decent tools in Sucker Punch and Ice Punch, but it can't as reliably capitalize on its main niche with Dry Skin when a large amount of bulky Water-types, like the Slowbros and Jellicent, are fully capable of handling it one on one. It also lacks appreciation for the Ground-types often paired with Waters like Empoleon and Tentacruel that it can take advantage of, like Hippowdon and Nidoking.

C- -> UR
Mega Abomasnow's usage is so lacking that at this point any niche it has is almost entirely theoretical. It has solid mixed offenses, a good STAB combo, and decent coverage, but fails to make use of these tools very adequately due to its awful typing and even worse Speed. The vast majority of the offensive metagame can easily take advantage of its flaws to apply heavy pressure to it, which requires that it's supported rather heavily, which can lead to building restrictions for the player. Its niches don't differentiate it enough from its main competitors in Mamoswine and Kyurem, which are also way more self sufficient and reliable, for it to offset its flaws enough, and this is further compounded by the fact that it's Stealth Rock weak and takes up a Mega slot. I just don't think that Mega Abomasnow has enough applicable uses to be justified in sitting at even C-, especially considering that it gets less usage on UU ladder than literally Vaporeon and hasn't had any proven success since before USUM.

I hope you guys enjoyed reading! My apologies if some of these noms are a bit controversial, which I sort of expect, but let me know what you think nonetheless!

 

[Smallsmallrose]

I feel like a lot of people are holding off on their nominations until the vote ultimately decides the fate of Bisharp, which honestly is a pretty good move. But I'd like to take a few moments to appreciate some mons that I think are going to leave their mark on the meta even if Bisharp turns out to be banned. Just to spark some discussion and help revive the thread.

Froslass to C
I encountered this thing a number of times on the Bisharp suspect ladder, one even happened to be on a Bisharp-less team in a decent spot on the ladder. Its actually pretty decent. It can stop defogging even without Bisharp's help through the use of taunt. It can even run some utility moves like will-o-wisp and destiny bond to cripple or full on one-for-one opposing attackers and slower leads. The times I saw this mon played, I was genuinely impressed by it and aggravated to fight it. Its a great spiker that spinblocks, can taunt slower defoggers, and threaten to leave an impression on the enemy team even after it's KO with some of the aforementioned utility moves. I think it could be a decent niche option even if Bisharp stays banned.

Nidoqueen to B-
Now this lovely lady isn't even hinging on Bisharp's fate to flex its stuff and I'm sure you're all very well aware of that by now. Its a decent Terrak check, and it's arguably one of, if not the best Zeraora check in our current metagame. Not really being bothered by any of it's coverage options, even the niche ones. It also has a wide movepool with stuff like ice beam to hit the rising star Gligar and flamethrower to hit the likes of Scizor. This in addition to being able to run stealth rock OR toxic spikes can make it's role very different among each team and very flexible across all the teams it's ran on. I'd argue Nidoqueen is one of our best ground types in general right now, it's utterly fantastic.

Steelix-Mega to B+
While Bisharp's unban would certainly help this mon even further, we can't deny how good it's already become. Zeraora's fiery hot entrance into the tier has made it stick out even more among it's ground-type competition, most of which falls over to Zerora's Grass Knot or even just doesn't like getting their item knocked, 2 issues Steelix-Mega doesn't run into as a Zera check. A side note, I've seen a bit of a boltbeam Latias trend slowly starting up, which would also be fantastic for this mon if such a trend continues. In addition, there's been an uptick in the curse Steelix, which adds to it's versatility and options within the meta. While in previous metas, the steel/ground typing stuck out as a double-edged sword, the niches of the weird typing are really starting to stick out as boons in this meta.
And of course, since no VR post is complete without at least ONE controversial rise/drop, here's mine for the day:

Sharpedo-Mega to A+
This MIGHT be the Bisharp ladder meta speaking, but this mon has never been more terrifying to me than it was on my reqs attempts. I've seen this absolute terror pull back crazy 1v2-3 type situations too many times to count, as well as clean up surprisingly early in some games with crafty spikes play. and I've been on BOTH sides of these Shark sweeps, trust me. Shark is honestly pretty great right now, and it gets downright amazing if Bisharp does get unbanned. New options like earthquake that I saw in the Bisharp ladder also attest to Shark's versatility and potential if the meta takes a more offense turn. but even if Bisharp doesn't get unbanned and we go back to the balance song, I still think this mon could possibly be getting a bit underestimated in the Hippo/Empo dominant meta. Since in testing of various Shark teams even before Bish suspect I found this mon actually has a lot of decent matchups against a number of Hippo/Empo meta's star players. I personally think It's worth more looks than it's been given thusfar.

 

[RyanKoopa]

Now, I'm not the best player, so forgive me if this post is ill-informed, but I really think people are undervaluing the effectiveness of stall-breaker Crobat. Super Fang + Taunt really messes with a lot of defensive pokemon, particularly Blissey and Amoonguss.

Crobat can't stay in, but can do a lot of damage to defensive pokemon without reliable recovery on the switch, like Maggron and the omnipresent Empoleon. And with reliable recovery and fantastic speed, it has surprisingly decent longevity as well. Flynium Z BB does a good job at taking chunks out of pokemon in the late game, so even at low health it's not dead weight. In my experience it doesn't need a lot of support to be run either, just some sort of decent hazard remover. I think this set is effective enough to justify keeping Crobat in B-Rank, but I'd be curious to hear your thoughts.

 

[vivalospride]

Hi, I'm way too lazy and tired to get sprites n shit rn so this post is gonna look hella shitty, hf reading tho

Nidoqueen to B- - I hard agree with this, this mon is p good rn as it resists rak stabs and hard walls zera. The fact that it's so slow sucks but it's more of a defensive mon anyways. It has a lot of utility w/ double hazards and all that but it can also do a decent amount of damage because of Sheer Force. With all the fighting type mons in the tier being so good and zera... I don't see why this mon shouldnt rise.

Rotom-H to A- - If this shit doesn't go through I'm boxing Hilo. Pak is right, this thing is super splashable because of it's absurd role compression as being a ground immune defogger that checks birds and Scizor at the same time. The speedy hp toxic set is good at pressuring everything it needs to pressure like Hippo and all that shit. Swampert being one of the rockers that it can't defog on being kinda doo doo rn helps it a lot as well. It's a pivot, it offers so so much to a team and is a really good glue mon. Seeing it w/ the ghosts and staka and all that is pretty odd.

Froslass to C - Yeah sure, I haven't really used this mon myself yet as I've been having fun using Roserade as my niche shitty spiker but I've seen Froslass teams all over the ladder recently and I'm pretty sure every semi viable spiker should move up if bish stays, including Roserade LOL. Roserade + Zera is a p neat core I've found and it's damage output is p good so I'd support it rising, but idrc that much as it's not that good regardless lmao.

Shark to A+ - Yeah sure, if bish stays.

Geng/Chandy to B - I think it's too early to discuss this. If bish stays I'd still maybe support Chandy dropping but Geng can stay for sure. Bish + Geng on spikes is pretty nice ngl. So I say wait before making any decisions on this.

Luke to B+ - On god if this doesn't go through either I'm boxing Hilo again because this thing is so good. With Rotom-H being the most splashable mon like ever, it kinda replaced Tentacruel as the "removal that beats Scizor" mon and one thing that Tentacruel does that Rotom-H doesn't (at least not very well) is check fighting types. This mon can power through so many teams and if bish stays it'd only be better, I'd even argue it for A- if bish stays dam. S/o yeezyknows for being trash tho.

- I had to get the sprite for this one, I won't make the nom now since bish might not stay but it's lookin like it's gon stay. If bish stays im nomming this for B- and yall cant do shit bout it u___u.

 

[Drakothonic]

Hi, I'm not nearly as good as everyone here (decently consistent 1400s feeder), but I do want to put out a feeler for this.

Mega-Manectric to A-. Don't get me wrong; M-Mane is hella good in UU and always will be an option. Whether Mane has actually lowered in viability itself is not quite clear, but I do know that its usage will be dwarfed immensely. I feel that the emergence of Zeraora has impacted our electric hound in ways more than just one measly shift down. Zeraora can do everything that M-Mane can do at the sacrifice of a little power (but higher speed). Zera also comes with the physical set, access to an accurate Fighting-type move in Close Combat, Grass-type coverage from Grass Knot (leaving HP Ice/Ground/Rock/Poison open), ability to Knock Off, and the ability to have an item, allowing LO mixed sets, Band, Specs, or even a Scarf for ultimate speed coverage or Z-Crystals to provide the same sort of nuke that Mane possesses.

Mega-Mane isn't bad. But the only niche it has going for it is the nuke from Overheat, and the ability to Intimidate. Its viability is still decent, but I can't think of a situation where I'd prefer to have Mega-Mane over the flexibility and guessing games that come with Zeraora. I think A- is ceiling in the metagame with Zeraora involved.

 

[vivalospride]

Yo, with Bisharp staying in the tier... hazard based offenses become significantly better, and it's not like they were bad beforehand. Webs counts as a hazard based offense so I believe this lad deserves a rise to B-.

I've made a post praising the water spider before where it rose to C and then to C+ afterwards, so you prolly already know what this post is gonna be like. Bisharp coming down affects the viability of hazard centered teams in general because it finally gives us a mon that can viably run Defiant in this tier, with the closest thing we've had to a "viable" Defiant user is Tornadus which has never really held up. Bisharp reliably punishes a lot of the defoggers in the tier and on webs, prio spam is already amazing for floaty mons so Bish fits perfectly. Mediocre speed stat, high damage output, punishes defog, beats floating mons like Lati. Everything checks out, honestly webs was fine w/o this mon by just running like Mamo + Scizor on every webs team to beat the multitude of floating mons that threaten webs, but bish only makes it better. The argument that bish actually hurts the viability of webs due to webs activating defiant and giving bish a free SD doesn't really hold up because honestly fighting mons are not difficult to fit onto webs and were already pretty necessary for Hydreigon matchups n shit. Coba, luke, infernape, kommo, etc. can all work rather well on webs teams, making the whole bisharp thing not really too big of an issue, I'm specifically liking Luke rn as it also helps the stall matchup as well as staka matchup. I'm nomming Araquanid specifically to B- but honestly this is mostly a post to say webs have gotten better in the metagame, and while I think Araquanid is the best web setter in the tier, other options like Galvantula can 100% be used and honestly Galv should be ranked B). Webs are still pretty cheesy and super matchup based but they deserve B- imo, they've only gotten better.

Also one thing is that Zera is a bit of a pain to deal with if webs aren't up a lot of the time. Nidoking has gotten a bit of an edge over Mamoswine now if you're zera weak. Ice Shard is still super valuable on webs though so I'd use adamant sash mamo if you feel like you're zera weak but simply can't give up Ice Shard.

That's it. c5 aoty, araq to b-.

 

[Moutemoute]

Bisharp to A

I think A it's a good start for Bisharp in Underused. I don't have a lot of things to say about it since we already talk a lot about it on the thread dedicated to its Suspect. It's a really good Pokemon which can put a massive pressure on a lot of Pokemon thanks to its high Attack's BS and typing. It has some defensive utility by being capable to check Latias, Scizor or Klefki. Its access to Swords Dance make it really dangerous and thanks to its Movepool, it can also run some nasty options to deal with it's checks (like (Z-)Low Kick to hit Cobalion, Bewear and Hydreigon). Even if its Speed kinda sucks, it has a a priority to offset this drawback : Sucker Punch !

Manectric-Mega to A-

Since Zeraora has dropped to UU. Mega-Manectric has lost a lot of utility since it's not anymore the fastest Electric type we have in the current tier. Zeraora is faster than Manectric-Mega and has more utility thanks to its faculty to be played as a Physical/Special/Mixed Sweeper. Its Movepool it's also better and it's kinda hard atm to justify to play Manectric-Mega over Zeraora in a team. Furthermore, the rise of Rotom-H has a Scizor's check don't help Manectric-Mega at all which means that its niche is not as big as before. I definitively think that it should drop from A.

Sharpedo-Mega to A+

Sharpedo-Mega is so good right now. Even if some people disagree with my opinion, I trully think that Sharpedo Spikes Offense has a tremendous good potential in the current metagame. Bisharp kinda help those types of team because it acts as a pretty good Defog Deterrent which means it's easier for Spikes Offense to maintien their Hazards on the opponent's field. Sharpedo-Mega acts as incredible Wallbreaker and Late Game Sweeper and even if it does not provide some defensive utility to those teams, it grants to them a way to break through a lot of Pokemon. We can also notice that Earthquake is more and more used on Sharpedo-Mega because it helps it to hit Pokemon like Cobalion, Klefki and Empoleon which helps Bisharp in the back to be even more dangerous.

Kommo-o to A

Kommo-o became during the recent months, one of the scariest Pokemon to face if you don't have a Fairy type in you're team like Togekiss or Altaria-Mega. Mixed + Stealth Rock + Taunt, DD Z-Move or Sub BD are all great and dangerous as fuck. Thanks to its ability Soundproof, Sylveon isn't as good as before because it can't deal with Kommo-o.

Mixed Kommo-o

Kommo-o @ Life Orb / Dragonium Z
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt / Poison Jab
- Clanging Scales
- Close Combat

This set emerged a few month ago and has become a staple in a lot of team. Thanks to its typing and its great stats, Kommo-o acts as a nasty powerhouse which can be a pain in the ass for Bulky Pokemon and Stalls while being able to check some threats like Krookodile, Manectric-Mega, Zeraora, Cobalion etc.. I think Kommo-o deserves a rise because its without a doubt one of the best Pokemon to bother slower Pokemon and it forces people to run a Fairy Pokemon if they don't want to struggle vs Kommo-o.

Rotom-Heat to A-

Pak and vivalospride both already explained why Rotom-Heat should rise. It's typing is kinda amazing right now. Being able to check Scizor, Mamoswine, Bisharp, Zeraora and flying types is a real advantage for a Pokemon that can also provides utility with Defog and Volt-Switch. I'm a big fan of the Bulky Speedy Rotom-H (with enough Speed to outspeed Togekiss) and I think it's one of our best Defogger atm.

Crobat to B-

Crobat struggles a lot in the current metagame. A Defogger which can't deal with Bisharp is kinda annoying and it's exactly the problem of Crobat. Besides U-Turn / Super Fang, Crobat can't do anything versus Bisharp which mean you kinda lost some Momentum when you're using Crobat because you are forced to U-Turn because Bisharp will always come on Crobat. With that in mind, it's easy to understand that Crobat isn't a good Defogger in the current Underused. It also doesn't like at all the presence of Electric types like Zeraora, Manectric-Mega and Rotom-Heat.

Lucario to B+

Hell yeah, just rise Lucario already ! Since the rise of Gliscor in OU, Lucario has become better and better and it doesn't change at all now that Bisharp is in Underused. Besides the rare (Z-)Low Kick, Lucario doesn't care a lot of Bisharp and can come with ease on it. Moreover, it's a powerful Wallbreaker thanks to SD or NP. Even if it's Speedtier isn't the best for a Sweeper, its access to priority like E-Speed and Vacuum Wave allows it to RK / deal with faster threat like Hydreigon, Cobalion, Sharpedo-Mega etc.. Both its Physical and Special set are great thanks to some powerful STABs aka Close Combat and Focus Blast / Aura Sphere.

Steelix-Mega to B+

I love Steelix-Mega. Curse + Stealth Rock + STABs is a really good set which allows Steelix-Mega to be useful and pretty dangerous on both the offensive and defensive sides. It's immunity to Electric type allows it to be nice vs Zeraora and Manectric-Mega. Of course, it struggles to 1v1 Rotom-Heat if it lacks of Toxic but still, it's a good Pokemon and a formidable check to Latias.

Tsareena to B

You need a Rapid Spinner which can threaten the large majority of Stealth Rock's setter ? You also need smth that can check Bisharp ? Alright alright I have what you need and its name is Tsareena.

Tsareena Z-High Jump Kick

Tsareena @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 240 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Synthesis
- High Jump Kick
- Power Whip

Thanks to its typing, Movepool and ability, Tsareena can deals with Pokemon like Hippowdon, Cobalion, Bisharp, Swampert and even Scizor after come cheaps. Plus, there isn't a lot of Pokemon in Underused that can actually take a Choice Band Power Whip. Tsareena is a Pokemon valuable and I think it's niche allows it to be higher than B-.

Nidoqueen to B- (B is legit too imo)

I've been using a lot Nidoqueen during the past weeks and I enjoyed it a lot. Nidoqueen is one of those Pokemon that can deal with Electric types while having some utility with its access to Stealth Rock / Toxic Spikes. Furthermore, Sheer Force (eventually + Life Orb) allows it to hit pretty hard. Clearly, Nidoqueen deserve to be higher on the Viability Ranking. It also has one of the greatest Movepool in the tier which allows it to hit what it wants to hit : Ice Beam can put some pressure on Hippowdon, Gligar, Latias and Hydreigon ; Flamethrower can nuke Scizor ; Taunt gives it a better Matchup vs fat builds / Stall. A really good and underrated Pokemon for sure !

 

[yeezyknows]

C+ ---> B-/B

diancie is an incredible mon in the current metagame, being extraordinarily splashable on nearly every build while also acting as one of the tier's best rockers. its defensive typing is arguably the best in the tier, easily sponging hits from the dominant dark/flying/dragon types in the metagame. i've used it on a ton of my teams recently just because of how strong of a defensive mon it truly is, freely switching in on probably half the offensive threats in our meta. its combination of moonblast, diamond storm, and (occasionally) toxic prevents it from being passive, as only certain steels can freely switch in on it, with coba/sciz both taking ~40 from moonblast/diamond storm, respectively. having access to both heal bell and stealth rock makes it an extraordinarily multifaceted mon as well, allowing for some of the best role compression in the meta.

diancie is easily more versatile and more viable than the rest of the C+ mons, a majority of which are incredibly niche and one-dimensional. diancie is probably the most deserving mon of a rise rn, and i was pretty surprised not seeing it higher.

edit: sniped :((

 

[Sage]

10/28/18 Update! The end of Smogon Snake Draft, along with the introduction of Zeraora and Bisharp to the tier! It certainly has shaken up the meta, let's see what's changed.

Changes

Rises

Added to A

B+ -> A-

B -> B+

B -> B+

B -> B+

B -> B+

B -> B+

B- -> B

C+ -> B-

C+ -> B-

C+ -> B-

C+ -> B-

UR -> C-

Drops

A -> A-

A- -> B+

B+ -> B

B+ -> B

B+ -> B

B -> B-

B -> B-

B -> B-

B- -> C+

B- -> C+

C- -> UR

C- -> UR

Rises Reasoning

• Bisharp is starting out in A due to already proving to be a fantastic pick in the metagame as a sweeper and wallbreaker. Its great STAB combination and ability, high Attack, and access to Sucker Punch all combine nicely and allow it to apply heavy pressure to several common archetypes in the metagame, with its SD + Darkinium Z set having particularly limited sturdy counterplay and options such as Stealth Rock and Assault Vest also proving worthwhile. It’s subject to rising further in the future, especially considering its influence on a lot of the meta’s offensive trends, though we figured that waiting just a bit to better understand its direct impact on the tier would be a good call.
• Rotom-H’s versatility, splashability, and teambuilding value are all at all-time highs. The amount of utility options at its disposal and its typing allow it to compress several needed roles very nicely while being easy to tailor to the specific needs of teams it’s fitted on, as has been reflected by the increased variation of EV configurations and movesets it’s been running. Due to its reliability and increased presence in the metagame, rising into the A ranks is most definitely warranted at this stage.
• Crawdaunt and Lucario are two offensive presences that have recently picked up on metagame trends excellently, justifying rises from B for each. Crawdaunt is one of the tier’s scariest breakers at this stage, with great responses to recent defensive trends and better splashability in a metagame heavy with offensive Spikes builds. Lucario’s Nasty Plot set has been making huge waves in recent weeks thanks to its amazing stallbreaking capabilities and ability to mess with several common revenge killers with Vacuum Wave. It can also function as a strong offensive check to Bisharp, which increases its opportunities to come in and begin setting up.
• Chesnaught, Florges, and Gligar are all rising to B+ due to being in great places as defensive Pokemon right now. Chesnaught has been a key component of Spikes builds and balanced teams alike recently, thanks to its ability to reliably check big threats in Krookodile, Bisharp, Zeraora, Hippowdon, and more, making it a more consistent option than ever before. Florges has defined a solid niche for itself as a great cleric and the tier’s premier defensive Fairy-type, with steady usage in this year’s Snake Draft and frequent inclusion on several notable balance cores. Gligar’s typing and bulk make it a fantastic check to a lot of important offensive threats in the tier, while recent tournament play has also allowed it to showcase its consistency and utility.
• Mega Blastoise is a decent alternative to breakers like Primarina and Volcanion at the moment, largely thanks to the pressure it can put on the majority of trending defensive threats, like the Slowbros, Jellicent, and Empoleon. Its typing and solid defenses can also offer decent utility that its competition can’t as a sturdier check to Pokemon like Scizor, Krookodile, and Mega Aerodactyl, which alongside Rapid Spin further pronounces a niche well worth placement in B at this stage.
• Araquanid, Diancie, Mienshao, and Nidoqueen are all rising to B- due to having niches that are more appreciated in the metagame than ever before. Araquanid is the face of Webs offense, a particularly improved archetype since Bisharp’s introduction. Diancie has had solid showings in Snake Draft and Grand Slam, showcasing its worth as a fantastic answer to Hydreigon among other defining presences and as a Pokemon capable of compressing roles excellently. Mienshao has had an excellent showing in recent tournament play as well, only losing one Snake Draft match in which both players were using it, proving its consistency and value as a great pivot. Nidoqueen has been making an appearance on several teams lately as a reliable Electric-type check and a surprisingly customizable defensive option.
• Froslass is a solid pick for a suicide Spikes setter that has enough key traits over its competition to justify a rank. It has several compelling utility options to reliably support its team with, can use its typing and Taunt to match up well against most entry hazard removers, and can adequately pressure Hydreigon as a Ghost-type. Its niches accumulate nicely to make it a pick strong enough for at least a spot in C-.

Drops Reasoning

• While Manectric is still a very strong pivot, the overall dominance of its run as the premier Electric-type in the tier is ending, with Rotom-H's unique defensive capabilities providing a worthy alternative, along with Zeraora's introduction to the tier creating offensive competition. It is still on par with the other Electric-types thanks to its combination of Offense and Defense that they can't provide, but it does take a Mega slot and comes with a higher opportunity cost
• Aggron hasn't been a mandatory Steel-type on any archetype for awhile, and while it is still good as a Rocker that can tank a number of physical attackers in the tier, Steelix has given it more competition in recent times as a Mega Steel-type alternative that better checks Latias and hits harder with Gyro Ball. Aggron is still a good pick, but no longer the titan that used to dominate the bulky Steel role.
• Offensive Ghost-types are having a bit of a rough go in the meta right now, with neither Gengar nor Chandelure having much significant usage. Neither one appeared at any time in Smogon Snake Draft, and in such a Pursuit-driven meta they become liabilities in most matchups where you can't ever fully harness their potenttsial. Gengar has more workarounds to this, and could see another rise if a set that bea Dark-types finds consistent use, but Chandelure is most likely going to continue trending downward as its Stealth Rock weakness makes it even more punishable.
• While you'd think a Pursuit trapper would be doing great in the Meta, Muk finds itself too easily taken advantage of by top threats like Terrakion and Krookodile, and its still worn down easily by things it would like to trap like Latias, along with having no passive recovery to offset hazard damage. Krookodile, Aerodactyl, and Scizor have proven themselves much more consistent as Pursuit users and will often be a better pick than Muk, leading to its drop.
• Bronzong, Crobat, and Swampert aren't as effective defensive picks as they have been in previous metas. Bronzong has struggled to deal with the the uptick in Pursuit usage, although it can beat Krookodile and Aerodactyl 1v1, it still is liable to being picked off once its been chipped, and it can't run room for all of Protect, Gyro Ball, and Psywave, leaving it always weak to at least one trapper. Crobat's niche has mostly evaporated with Breloom, Serperior, and Mega Venusaur all gone from the tier, it still has some niche usage with the Super Fang set but is by no means splashable. Swampert also has struggled as a bulky Water, with many Electric-types being able to beat it with Grass coverage, and also facing competition from Seismitoad taking advantage of the Water-types currently in the meta.
• Rhyperior and Quagsire also are seeing their defensive niche’s becoming less prevalent. Quagsire is no longer an automatic pick on stall with Slowbro often filling its duty, and in general more fat teams outside of Hard Stall being viable thanks to Chesnaught and Jellicent’s rise. Rhyperior doesn’t provide nearly enough as a Rock-type anymore, with Diancie usually being a better pick as a defensive one thanks to its ability to check Dragons, along with a handy neutrality to Fighting.
• Abomasnow and Entei aren't really worthy of being ranked at this point. Neither has seen serious usage in a long time, with Entei being outclassed by other Offensive Fire-types who have more versatility. Sacred Fire's Burn and access to Extreme Speed isn't enough to give Entei spots on a team for the most part. Mega Abomasnow fails to bring the utility of other Ice-types viable in the meta such as Mamoswine's stronger power + higher speed and Electric immunity, Kyurem's Bulk, and even the Spikes of Froslass and Mega Glalie.

Stay Unranked:

Mega Ampharos: There may be a couple appealing qualities of Mega Ampharos' uniqueness as an Electric-type, but it doesn't provide nearly enough to a team in order to be worthy of a rank. It's defensive set is reliant on RestTalk, easily abusable by dangerous Pokemon along with Ampharos needing to Mega before checking things like Moltres forcing uncomfortable lead matchups with opposing Dragon-types. Offensive sets would be outclassed by other Electric-types with actual speed tiers that still retain the ability to punish Ground-types.

 

[Hilomilo]

Hey all! I'm here again with the second half of your update: rejected noms and discussion points! We decided to mainly focus on nominations that got a lot of support in the thread and are thus probably more important to address. Here's what we decided to hold off on for now:

Mega Sharpedo to A+: Sharpedo is certainly the scariest cleaner to face, but it hasn’t become so prevalent that a rise to A+ is warranted. This is an overreaction to Bisharp’s drop, and we need to see how much it shows up in practice before blindly rising it on the basis that Spikes offense could become even more common that it already has so far. Other Dark-types like Crawdaunt and Bisharp are also showing up more as potential competition in the Breaker / Cleaner hybrid department on Spikes builds, which is more significant than in metagames past considering that running multiple Dark-types is more costly in a Fighting-type heavy meta.

Kommo-o to A: Kommo-o is certainly strong, but it does face distinct weaknesses that Latias and Hydreigon don’t have to worry about. The speed tier is somewhat lacking and limits you vs. opposing Dragon-types and a plethora of other threats. It still has to pick what it beats and as such is somewhat more matchup dependant than its competition, not having a “standard” set that is as consistent as CM Latias for example (DD and Mixed LO do come close, but have their own weaknesses of picking coverage / being worn down more easily.). We think it is better to wait a little bit, but depending on Bisharp’s relevance, it certainly is plausible Kommo-o could rise once again though.

Discussion Points

Bisharp A -> A+: Bisharp is already proving that it has a significant impact in the tier through influencing a few notable trends, such as the rise of Hyper Offense, the particular uptick in usage of Spikes and Webs-based offensive builds, and the increased viability of Pokemon like Lucario and Chesnaught. Whether it’s currently defining enough to sit comfortably in A+ is a question worth asking, though the prevalence of several Fighting-types to combat it among other popular Sucker Punch resists, like Hydreigon and Mega Sharpedo, does burden it a fair amount.

Blissey A- -> A: Through a lot of notable tournament success, Blissey has been able to showcase its potential value to really any archetype other than Hyper Offense. Thanks to the combination of its bulk, typing, and access to a plethora of useful utility options, it’s proven to be a surprisingly splashable pick with uses applicable to several teams. Whether or not its recent uptick in usage and relevance is significant enough for a rise despite its flaws is worth talking about more in depth.

Primarina A- -> A: While Primarina doesn’t receive a ton of usage compared to a few months ago, it still has a lot going for it in the metagame that could allow it to reclaim its spot in A. It’s one of the more reliable Hydreigon checks available, can use its typing to trouble the tier’s several rising Ground-types, and it has great synergy with several prominent threats, like Terrakion and Kommo-o. It does struggle to work around Blissey’s increased presence, however, while also lacking appreciation for Zeraora’s fairly recent introduction to the tier.

Heracross B+ -> B: Despite still being an immensely threatening breaker, Heracross is in a bit of an odd place right now. Its weird typing, average bulk, and susceptibility to wearing itself down can hurt it in a metagame where Fighting-types with more defensive utility are becoming more valuable. It also lacks consistent usage and isn’t fond of Jellicent and Gligar becoming more popular defensive picks. Whether or not its sheer offensive prowess is enough to offset these flaws is enough of a question to bring up with the community.

Volcanion B+ -> B: Volcanion is another threatening wallbreaker that just lacks consistent usage and could drop because of that. It’s only been used once in Snake Draft, which is fairly weak compared to Mega Blastoise, a major competitor of Volcanion’s, getting used on four different occasions and consistently showcasing its worth well. Volcanion does have a wider selection of very viable options, however, such as its Toxic and Choice Specs sets, which could keep it where it is now.

Tsareena B- -> B: After spending a long time outside of the limelight, Tsareena is finding some more use on teams as a capable Bisharp check and a generally solid offensive Pokemon and hazard remover. It can also check Empoleon + Hippowdon cores well in addition to pressuring the several Ground- and Water-types rising in usage. However, its main problems, such as the presence of a few defensive checks and poor Speed, still hinder it and are worth noting when assessing its viability.

Toxicroak B- -> C+: Toxicroak struggles to as reliably take advantage of Dry Skin when several trending Water-types, like Jellicent and the Slowbros, can still beat it one on one. It also struggles to work around its Ground-type weakness, which is troublesome considering that most Water-types it can punish, like Empoleon and Tentacruel, are often paired with Hippowdon or Gligar or Nidoqueen. While it still has a lot of untapped potential due to a general lack of exploration, and it can function as a decent offensive Bisharp check, it does find itself in a bit of a funky spot.

Palossand C -> C+: Palossand has received a fair amount of usage in recent tournament play and has had proven success as a reliable defensive Ground-type with the tools needed to set itself apart. Its ability to more reliably check the tier’s several viable Fighting-types than Hippowdon is worth noting, though Bisharp’s recent introduction and the viability of several other Dark-types, like Krookodile, Crawdaunt, and Mega Sharpedo, could hold it back enough for it to stay C.

Hope you guys enjoyed! Let me know on my wall or in PMs if there's something you're still curious about. Be kind, and happy posting! :)

 

[Pak]

Bisharp: remain A
When I look at the things in A+, I see either splashable mons that are capable of consistently performing multiple roles to a high level, or something that can be outright dominant in its specific role in the case of Terrakion. Bisharp to me has just been...underwhelming. UU naturally has a variety of faster Dark resists like Hydreigon/Terrak/Cobalion/Krookodile/Infernape/etc, making it fairly easy to revenge kill even after an SD or two. Additionally, some bulky foes like Hippowdon, Chesnaught, and even like Mega Slowbro are capable of fairly easily stomaching +2 hits and doing some respectable damage in return. These factors combine to nearly always prevent Bisharp from outright sweeping, and to make matters worse, it barely has any defensive utility. Its sub par bulk prevents it from comfortably tanking resisted hits like Latias and Hydreigon STAB moves, and ultimately limits its set up opportunities as well. With all this said, Bisharp is obviously still very good, but these flaws pretty firmly keep it out of A+ in my mind.

Stakataka: B+ to B/B-
Okay now this mon I'm convinced is just kinda bad. Offensive Trick Room sets have always been underwhelming outside of your rare amazing matchup here and there. I don't want to focus too much on these since they've really fallen out of favor over time anyway, but they've gotten noticeably worse given the rise of Bulletproof users in Kommo-o and Chesnaught which wall it completely. Naturally, these two also have a negative effect on its more common spdef rocks set, fearing very little outside of Toxic and proceeding to do whatever they want in front of it. Overall, this set seems incredibly mediocre. Initially, its main selling points over stuff like Mega Aggron were its passive recovery and ability to hard counter Mega Pidgeot and non fighting coverage Togekiss. But these days, Mega Pidgeot is dead as disco and this thing DOES NOT check its replacement in Moltres. Chances are if you're resorting to Stak to check Toge, your other bird answers are kinda shitty and Moltres will destroy you over time. Rock Blast is the more common 2nd attack, making it not walled by Moltres and Rotom-H, but it also makes it walled by stuff like Empoleon and even Tentacruel to an extent which just get off your rocks for free. Its 4x weaknesses to Fighting and Ground are really bad for obvious reasons, mainly because you can't even pretend you check Aero, and the rise of defog Gligar has hurt it too. This was kind of all over the place but this thing is just so mediocre and there's no way it fits into B+ at the moment. Stak being the same rank as Mega Aggron is insanity.

Heracross: B+ to B
Heracross isn't a bad Pokemon. Its main issues stem from the harsh competition is faces from UU's other fighting types, which all boast either much better speed, much greater defensive utility, or just a greater sense of reliability. Between its lack of defensive uses and burn/hazards wearing it down fairly easily, Heracross generally sees very few opportunities to come in and do its job, wallbreaking. It fails to OHKO premier defensive mons in Togekiss, Hippowdon, and Mega Slowbro (even with Megahorn), meaning its often forced to trade damage or stomach a hit to use SD against something. As just mentioned, the rise of Mega Slowbro has also hurt Heracross decently hard. Previously you could just pencil in CC/Facade/Knock/SD, but that set leaves you walled by the pink fat shell thing. Opting for Megahorn over Knock Off obviously opens up a weakness to Ghosts and lack of general utility vs item reliant stuff like Gligar. So yeah, Heracross is just really hard to justify over other options right now given its minimal defensive uses, tendency to be worn down easily, and its increasingly awkward move selections.

Tsareena: B- to B
I'm kind of obligated to chime in here, since you know, Tsareena is the best Pokemon of all time. While it can still be a bit difficult to fit on teams, I've noticed lately that Tsareena is more versatile than it is given credit for. Obviously its main selling point is its Choice Band set and the stupid damage/momentum it can net in games with rocks up, but some other options have popped up lately on Rapid Spin sets. Recently I've been playing around with stuff like Lum Berry and Assault Vest, and honestly they've just been cool options over the previously hyped Meadow Plate. The former allows you to more easily check Pokemon like Empoleon, Suicune, and bulky waters as a whole, something much appreciated by a physically attacking Grass type. The latter lets you slow U-turn more easily on stuff like Latias and the rising Celebi, while just being more sturdy overall on the special side. Finally, as brought up by Hilomilo above, Tsareena benefits from the drop of Bisharp as well, being the one Pokemon in existence immune to Sucker Punch bop.

Palossand C to C+
This thing is a fine mon. The reason its this low is obviously because of the strong competition from Hippowdon as a rock setting bulky ground with reliable recovery, but Palossand finds a solid niche in its immunity to Fighting. This key difference is most notable in letting Palossand be possibly the only true counter to every Terrakion set. Similarly to Hippo, it still counters Mega Manectric, spreads Toxic around (but can't WW), and is really just an annoying fat blob. Its advantages outside of handling Terrakion are fairly limited, but its Ghost typing does some other things for it like blanket checking most other Fighting-types, resisting U-turn (in combo with a Volt immunity), and blocking Rapid Spin if its absolutely needed. Palossand is mostly outclassed, but its a fine pick in UU rn, and it's definitely worth a spot in C+.

 

[skvettleif]

View attachment 143566
Bisharp: remain A
When I look at the things in A+, I see either splashable mons that are capable of consistently performing multiple roles to a high level, or something that can be outright dominant in its specific role in the case of Terrakion. Bisharp to me has just been...underwhelming. UU naturally has a variety of faster Dark resists like Hydreigon/Terrak/Cobalion/Krookodile/Infernape/etc, making it fairly easy to revenge kill even after an SD or two. Additionally, some bulky foes like Hippowdon, Chesnaught, and even like Mega Slowbro are capable of fairly easily stomaching +2 hits and doing some respectable damage in return. These factors combine to nearly always prevent Bisharp from outright sweeping, and to make matters worse, it barely has any defensive utility. Its sub par bulk prevents it from comfortably tanking resisted hits like Latias and Hydreigon STAB moves, and ultimately limits its set up opportunities as well. With all this said, Bisharp is obviously still very good, but these flaws pretty firmly keep it out of A+ in my mind.

View attachment 143567
Stakataka: B+ to B/B-
Okay now this mon I'm convinced is just kinda bad. Offensive Trick Room sets have always been underwhelming outside of your rare amazing matchup here and there. I don't want to focus too much on these since they've really fallen out of favor over time anyway, but they've gotten noticeably worse given the rise of Bulletproof users in Kommo-o and Chesnaught which wall it completely. Naturally, these two also have a negative effect on its more common spdef rocks set, fearing very little outside of Toxic and proceeding to do whatever they want in front of it. Overall, this set seems incredibly mediocre. Initially, its main selling points over stuff like Mega Aggron were its passive recovery and ability to hard counter Mega Pidgeot and non fighting coverage Togekiss. But these days, Mega Pidgeot is dead as disco and this thing DOES NOT check its replacement in Moltres. Chances are if you're resorting to Stak to check Toge, your other bird answers are kinda shitty and Moltres will destroy you over time. Rock Blast is the more common 2nd attack, making it not walled by Moltres and Rotom-H, but it also makes it walled by stuff like Empoleon and even Tentacruel to an extent which just get off your rocks for free. Its 4x weaknesses to Fighting and Ground are really bad for obvious reasons, mainly because you can't even pretend you check Aero, and the rise of defog Gligar has hurt it too. This was kind of all over the place but this thing is just so mediocre and there's no way it fits into B+ at the moment. Stak being the same rank as Mega Aggron is insanity.

View attachment 143568
Heracross: B+ to B
Heracross isn't a bad Pokemon. Its main issues stem from the harsh competition is faces from UU's other fighting types, which all boast either much better speed, much greater defensive utility, or just a greater sense of reliability. Between its lack of defensive uses and burn/hazards wearing it down fairly easily, Heracross generally sees very few opportunities to come in and do its job, wallbreaking. It fails to OHKO premier defensive mons in Togekiss, Hippowdon, and Mega Slowbro (even with Megahorn), meaning its often forced to trade damage or stomach a hit to use SD against something. As just mentioned, the rise of Mega Slowbro has also hurt Heracross decently hard. Previously you could just pencil in CC/Facade/Knock/SD, but that set leaves you walled by the pink fat shell thing. Opting for Megahorn over Knock Off obviously opens up a weakness to Ghosts and lack of general utility vs item reliant stuff like Gligar. So yeah, Heracross is just really hard to justify over other options right now given its minimal defensive uses, tendency to be worn down easily, and its increasingly awkward move selections.

View attachment 143569
Tsareena: B- to B
I'm kind of obligated to chime in here, since you know, Tsareena is the best Pokemon of all time. While it can still be a bit difficult to fit on teams, I've noticed lately that Tsareena is more versatile than it is given credit for. Obviously its main selling point is its Choice Band set and the stupid damage/momentum it can net in games with rocks up, but some other options have popped up lately on Rapid Spin sets. Recently I've been playing around with stuff like Lum Berry and Assault Vest, and honestly they've just been cool options over the previously hyped Meadow Plate. The former allows you to more easily check Pokemon like Empoleon, Suicune, and bulky waters as a whole, something much appreciated by a physically attacking Grass type. The latter lets you slow U-turn more easily on stuff like Latias and the rising Celebi, while just being more sturdy overall on the special side. Finally, as brought up by Hilomilo above, Tsareena benefits from the drop of Bisharp as well, being the one Pokemon in existence immune to Sucker Punch bop.

View attachment 143570
Palossand C to C+
This thing is a fine mon. The reason its this low is obviously because of the strong competition from Hippowdon as a rock setting bulky ground with reliable recovery, but Palossand finds a solid niche in its immunity to Fighting. This key difference is most notable in letting Palossand be possibly the only true counter to every Terrakion set. Similarly to Hippo, it still counters Mega Manectric, spreads Toxic around (but can't WW), and is really just an annoying fat blob. Its advantages outside of handling Terrakion are fairly limited, but its Ghost typing does some other things for it like blanket checking most other Fighting-types, resisting U-turn (in combo with a Volt immunity), and blocking Rapid Spin if its absolutely needed. Palossand is mostly outclassed, but its a fine pick in UU rn, and it's definitely worth a spot in C+.

Rly liked this one. Agree very much with Heracross dropping. The complete lack of defensive utility and mediocre speed makes this pokemon 100% outclassed by stuff like Terrakion imo. While you could argue Heracross is good in the stall MU, in my experience it never manages to break through. Burn damage, taking damage from rocky helmet alomomolas, and decent switch ins to it in Maltaria, Mslowbro and Quagsire make it ususally able to get 1 kill at most. Admittedly it shines vs very bulky offense, but the perks to using this mon is way to situational and are heavily outweighed by the opportunity cost of using it over other better fighting types.

Speaking of better fighting types. Id like to nom Bewear to B or even B+. Ive been using the CB set quite alot, which has so much defensive utility in this meta infested by Bisharp, Scizor, (Crawdaunt) and Sharpedo. With Drain punch Bewear can keep swithing in to these threats and recover all its health with drain punch or just nuke something with double edge. With a jolly nature it outspeeds neutral primarinas and Bisharps and take them out. Between Drain punch, Double edge, EQ and ice punch almost nothing switches in to it. Stuff like slowbro, chesnaught and hippowdon are all 2hkoed.

 

[Smallsmallrose]

Bisharp A -> A+: AGREE. Name one offense archetype that doesn't get better by slapping this thing on. While it's not game-ending on it's own, it's influence is worthy of an A+ mon. Hyper Offense was a dying, mediocre, gimmick archetype before Bisharp came in and breathed life into it. Its not winning games on it's own, but it's impact on the offense archetypes and the meta as a whole makes me think it could become A+ from that.

Blissey A- -> A: Agree. Seeing genuine use on archetypes that aren't stall is what really bumps Blissey from the role of "Gimmick stall mon" to an actual defensive pivot. Being used on different teams also makes it's weaknesses less pronounced, as things like passive nature can easily be patched up with more offensive teammates than what stall provided. It being a catch-all special wall is also a great help to many teams, as it's fat enough to battle many common balance breakers that blast balance and other bulky non-stall teams through hectic type coverage.

Primarina A- -> A: Agree. Being a capable Hydra answer is so valuable right now, especially with how many sets that thing has under it's belt. And while offensively it's struggling with the rise of Blissey, it couldn't be in a better position defensively. The uptick in Shark and Infernape courtesy of Bisharp's added presence to the meta, as well as Hydra's continued dominance, is also giving real value to Primarina's defensive side. I'd argue the defensive set is better than specs at this point, but that's my opinion. I'd say Prim to A for that reason as well as it's synergy with the common fighting types.

Heracross B+ -> B: Disagree. Heracross struggles with Slowbro, but what physical fighting type doesn't without going mixed or using weird coverage? Even the god fighting mon Terrakion can struggle to take the shell on. Besides, Its more than strong against others. Even though it fails to OHKO Hippo and Togekiss, very few are capable of doing so in the same vein. and Heracross can usually boast a 2hko on both of the above if played well. (Hell, if Hippowdon is trying to switch on Heracross and the the bug SDs, then it can even OHKO Hippo at that point!) Heracross is also fantastic against a number of other trends combating fighting types. Gligar can't take it on without acrobatics, and even then it gets shaken by getting it's eviolite knocked off, Palossand struggles to do any damage in return, Doublade can't handle knock too well either, Jelli can get hit exceptionally hard even with the Colbur Berry. While Heracross is very temporary due to it's lack of recovery and the flame orb, it's raw power allows it to AT WORST trade vs most teams without a Megabro. This thing is a monster and careful play can get it a kill in a lot of matchups. Its the concept of a glass cannon with mediocre bulk and defensive typing, but it's easily one of the best glass cannons, as it really puts the "CANNON" in Glass Cannon, as anything that can hit it hard will struggle to get in against it, and it can put massive dents in most walls.

Volcanion B+ -> B: Agree. Volcanion is just......Weird right now. It doesn't have a set that really sticks out among the others in this meta. A lot of what it used to like doing its getting stiff competition from Toise and Prim in now. It's rock weakness also sticks out like a sore thumb, and being a water not able to check things like Aero hurts it even more.

Tsareena B- -> B: Agree. Tsar is amazing right now. Great Bish check, Rapid Spin becoming more valuable with defiant, having good coverage, being a generally good grass type, Tsar has it all.

Toxicroak B- -> C+: Disagree. Like Hilomilo said, Toxicroak lacks exploration. It already shows promise as a Bisharp check, and I'm sure it could find some kind of work around to various grounds and/or the waters it doesn't beat. This thing deserves another look before we drop it.

Palossand C -> C+: Disagree. Palossand is a fantastic pivot with a lot of success and utility in checking Terrakion, but a lot of newly arising trends are looking uncomfortable for it. Bisharp poses a problem, as does new electric type Zeraora, which can beat Palossand with two grass knots just as it does Hippowdon. Becoming a less reliable electric check in the face of Zeraora as well as Bisharp's introduction to the tier, and things like Shark and Hydra that come with Bish, I think are grounds for Palossand to stay where it is. Its far from bad and it's earned the success it's had, but the meta is shifting in a way it may not like.
Now that my opinion on all the discussion points are out of the way, something irked me about Pak's post. I'm gonna have to DISAGREE on his Staka nom to drop.

Overall, this set seems incredibly mediocre. Initially, its main selling points over stuff like Mega Aggron were its passive recovery and ability to hard counter Mega Pidgeot and non fighting coverage Togekiss.

Arguably the main selling point of Stakataka right now vs things like Megaggron are not it's effectiveness as a flying check. But rather, due to how it handles dragons like Latias and to a lesser degree Hydra. Mainly going to focus on Latias here tho since its really bonkers right now, being able to blast most of it's steel checks (Like Megaggron, and others like Empo and Scizor) to the freaking moon with Electrium Z. Staka is one of the few Steels that can battle Electrium and also notably does better against the Dragonium set than a number of other non-Klefki steels due to it's exceptionally high spdef, as others like Aggron and even Megalix (Yes Ik I was one of the ones who propped up Lix as arguably the best Lati counter but I think Staka is better now deal w/ it) can usually take about 50-ish or more from Dragonium depending on spread, which can leave them susceptible to losing from higher health values than Staka would lose from, and this is also where Staka's lefties benefits it even more over the Mega Steel competition since passive recovery makes it less likely to be chipped by a crafty Lati player, while Lix and Aggron could be more easily pressured into the delicious 50% they need to fall over to Z-draco. While it's offensive set is garbage now, it's defensive set still has tons of value even if only because of how oppressive Lati is. It's decent matchup against Hydra can also make it a solid backup check on teams with a fairy that loses to a certain Hydra set. (Like if you get hit with Z-belch, or smth like taunt Hydra vs NP Toge happens.) If Staka was only good for being a bird deterrent, it would have dropped much longer ago, but it's typing actually brings some defensive value outside of pestering the likes of Toge and Mega Bad Bird. I think taking on 2/3 of our esteemed S-ranks in a decent number of their sets is a good enough reason to keep Staka where it is.

 

[palkia246]

Heracross B+ -> B: Disagree. Heracross struggles with Slowbro, but what physical fighting type doesn't without going mixed or using weird coverage? Even the god fighting mon Terrakion can struggle to take the shell on. Besides, Its more than strong against others. Even though it fails to OHKO Hippo and Togekiss, very few are capable of doing so in the same vein. and Heracross can usually boast a 2hko on both of the above if played well. (Hell, if Hippowdon is trying to switch on Heracross and the the bug SDs, then it can even OHKO Hippo at that point!) Heracross is also fantastic against a number of other trends combating fighting types. Gligar can't take it on without acrobatics, and even then it gets shaken by getting it's eviolite knocked off, Palossand struggles to do any damage in return, Doublade can't handle knock too well either, Jelli can get hit exceptionally hard even with the Colbur Berry. While Heracross is very temporary due to it's lack of recovery and the flame orb, it's raw power allows it to AT WORST trade vs most teams without a Megabro. This thing is a monster and careful play can get it a kill in a lot of matchups. Its the concept of a glass cannon with mediocre bulk and defensive typing, but it's easily one of the best glass cannons, as it really puts the "CANNON" in Glass Cannon, as anything that can hit it hard will struggle to get in against it, and it can put massive dents in most walls.

Hey so I don't really post much anymore but I wanted to weigh in on this discussion point. I think the points smallsmallrose illustrated are fair as to why Heracross can still be a strong pick but imo they don't really address the full argument in regards to its potential drop. I think that while struggling with the influx in a few defensive Pokemon that force it to juggle its coverage options around is part of the problem, it also struggles to compete with other Fighting-types that currently just have a lot more defensive utility, which can be a pretty crucial trait in a metagame filled with Dark-types and with several good Steel-types as well. Its longevity issues, weird typing, and equally weird Speed tier don't really allow it to reliably check stuff like Hydreigon and Bisharp nearly as reliably as a lot of other strong picks for offensive Fighting-types right now, which is a significant hit to its viability alongside the defensive adjustments the metagame has been making, imo. As far as its prowess as a Fighting-type stallbreaker goes, I'd prefer using something like Lucario or, if you prefer using a physically offensive mon, Terrakion. They offer better Speed tiers, and due to being less strapped for moveslots, arguably more reliability at this point, as well as decent defensive utility in the form of reliably switching in on unboosted Bisharps and some Scizors (as long as it looks out for Superpower) for Lucario. Idk, I just find that sheer breaking power isn't as huge an advantage Heracross can flaunt over its competition right now considering that Terrakion has that going for it alongside better versatility and move compression, and that the defensive attributes seen in most other Fighters that Heracross lacks are pretty valuable. I agree with dropping it to B.

I also think that Stakataka is definitely worth dropping at this point. It offers a strong check to some Latias and Hydreigon sets, sure, but I definitely don't think that as a defensive Steel-type it's on par with Aggron and a drop would reflect that well. Both of the Dragons brought up as Pokemon it can capably check have been experimenting more with Z-moves that can allow them to more easily overwhelm it, anyway. Latias's Electrium Z sets have seen a slight resurgence while Fightinium Z Hydreigon got some pretty good exposure in recent tournament play as probably one of the more potent options for its Defog sets. It doesn't offer a lot of what important traits that other defensive Steel-types do right now, either, since it can't really check stuff like Aerodactyl or Celebi very easily at all which can result in some uncomfortable building situations. This is another example of a Pokemon that's just in a bit of an awkward spot in the meta. I don't think that being a slightly more reliable answer to the S Dragons than other Steel-types is a great argument just because it doesn't do this so much more easily that it makes for a much stronger pick to combat these threats (Aggron, Steelix, and Klefki can also punish the Dragons with STABs or status about as easily) and since a lot of its poor meta responses are starting to overshadow some of the more notable things it has going for it. The recent rise in usage of both Chesnaught and Kommo-o, the meta heavily favoring Fighting-types, and Water-/Ground-type cores being strong are all just more awkward for it to deal with than its competition and offensive sets are also becoming way more niche and have no proven viability from recent tournament play really. Drop this to B as well.

With that out of the way, there are just a few personal noms I'd like to knock out while I have the chance. I'll go on and probably disappear for a while again after this lmao, so I hope you guys like reading them!

Mienshao B- to B: AV Shao is simply a fantastic pick in the metagame and I think that the strength it's showcased in recent tournament play is more than enough to prove that it's above anything in even the rank it just rose to. While it isn't an amazing Bisharp check for a Fighting-type, its pivoting sets have proven their worth as capable answers to the ever-present Hydreigon as well as other potentially troublesome special powerhouses, like offensive Rotom-H sets, Manectric, Kyurem, and Blastoise. It offers a surprising amount of utility both in offensive and defensive respects, fits well onto a lot of currently viable archetypes thanks to this, and still has options to toy with like Poison Jab and Stone Edge in its arsenal that it can use to lure in and surprise stuff like Togekiss and Moltres that think they can take advantage of the lacking Attack investment. It's sort of late and my thoughts are jumbled (I'm also bad lol) but I think that Mienshao has made its presence known for rising even further than it already has to be warranted.

Nihilego A- to B+: This could be controversial but I think that Nihilego is in just a bit of an awkward spot right now. It struggles a bit to combat Bisharp's presence, as well as the recently increased prevalence of Pursuit and physical breakers like Mega Sharpedo and Crawdaunt. It also doesn't enjoy the influx in usage of a few defensive Pokemon that can take advantage of it fairly well, like Gligar, Nidoqueen, Blissey, and Mega Steelix. Its defensive capabilities are also a bit harder to apply in the metagame since Rotom-H more commonly runs options like Pain Split and Thunder, Wave that burden it a fair amount, Manectric isn't used as frequently in favor of Zeraora, which can much more reliably break past Nihilego, and some previously prominent special threats in Gengar and Chandelure are becoming worse while those more capable of breaking past Nihilego, like Primarina and Celebi, are becoming better. I just don't know, I think that offering a strong check to Togekiss and Moltres is really valuable, but I don't think it's necessarily as strong a pick for an offensive entry hazard setter as A- would suggest considering some funky responses to recent trends and Diancie also popping up as a solid Rock-type option as well. Not totally sure here but thought I would throw it out there for discussion's sake, feel free to weigh in.

Infernape A- -> A: Also iffy on this one but I think that Infernape has a lot going for it and the prospect of rising is at least worth bringing up. It's a strong offensive Bisharp check and has been making waves with both Nasty Plot and mixed attacking sets. The more frequent use of Slack Off has been pretty key in allowing it to more consistently check Scizor and Bisharp throughout matches while it also speaks to Infernape's versatility and adaptability to metagame trends. It's also great at pressuring a lot of popular defensive cores, like Empoleon+Hippowdon, thanks to its solid type coverage, while I also feel that I've seen U-turn utilized more to decently chip switch-ins like Slowbro and Latias. It also checks Hydreigon well, Scarfed sets or sets utilizing priority pressure Mega Sharpedo and Krookodile, and it likes that checks like Alomomola and Chandelure are on the decline. There isn't much to say, I just think that Infernapes, versatility, adaptability, and general threat level all combine nicely to make placement an A a fair argument, but let me know how you all feel! Hope you liked reading! Thanks for your time :)

 

[Twilight]

So I just wanted to jump in about Nihilego mainly but I'll also give my opinions on these other noms.

Tsareena B- --> B (Agree) - I completly agree on this one. While it does struggle to deal with defensive threats like Moltres and Chesnaught it provides so much utility and raw power for a team. Since bisharp was being suspected I picked up tsareena as a phenomenal check to it, due to its speed tier and queenly majesty. It can provide hazard removal and easily lure in steel types and proceed to HJK. Boost the Queen up.

Stakataka and Heracross --> (Agree) -Basically agree with everything posted they both struggle a lot in the metagame compared to other prevalent steel and fighting types in the tier that outclass them. So I think a drop is warranted

Nihilego A- --> B+ (Disagree but mixed feelings) - So this is one of my favourite Pokemon but I'm gonna set any bias aside. I completely agree with what was stated by palkia246 it does struggle with the rise of some of these HO Pokemon like bisharp and sharpedo. I also agree that in most situations it's easier to slap Rotom-H onto a team over Nihilego due to Rotom-H soft checking steel types, walling every fairy including malt and more importantly mamoswine. However I feel like this opens up a lot of opportunities for Nihilego to start using different sets than the standard Z-rocks. Protect of course has seen a lot of popularity allowing it to worry less about CB Scizor and Krook, not having to worry about pursuit which is extremely useful and something I believe people aren't fully aware of. But I think Substitute might also be worth trying. I've been using a set like this with HP Fire + dual stab for a while now to help counter act with the rise of Bisharp etc. And it's worked very well of course the biggest downside being the coverage you would have to drop for empoleon for example (Of course the coverage you want to use is very flexible. Thunderbolt can be exchanged with Power Gem etc.). The main point I'm trying to make is that their are a lot of unexplored sets that are worth a try to adapt to this. I even think acid spray and pain split Nihilego are pretty decent right now too, to adapt to this blissey and gligar resurgence. As for the point on Celebi and Primarina rising, yes you can't switch into either but you easily drop them I believe after Rocks with E-belt or at the very least with chip (Can't be bothered to calc it right now). Either way it heavily pressures them to be forced out.

Overall I think it deserves to keep it's spot in A- as of right now as a defensive and offensive threat. I think there are a lot of unexplored or underused sets that are worth trying. It also pressures fairy types harder than Rotom-H and thanks to beast boost can act as a wallbreaker and sweeper. However I will acknowledge that if these other sets aren't enough to solidify Nihilego in the meta, then I agree it should drop to B+

 

[Freeroamer]

Stakataka is garbage, taking on a Latias slightly better than some other steels does not compensate for all of the other flaws it has when compared to other SR setting steels such as Emp, Aggron and Steelix. The vast majority of the time I would not consider using this as I would rather opt for an alternative bird check plus one of the other steels I listed before simply because the additional rock typing makes the dual typing so fricking bad because now half the tier has a way to pressure it and with 4x weaknesses, have the potential to bypass it if they really want to. I think the only place I’ve seen a Staka and not thought it’s been hopelessly out of place was on some stall builds, but in general I think aero stall is a better pick and those don’t rly need Staka imo.

Definitely don’t raise sharp, I have a feeling in the future we might even end up dropping it a little but yeah A is fine for now. There’s no doubt it has the potential to make offensive squads more viable but it’s way too soon after the suspect to suddenly decide they’re viable enough to warrant bish landing in A+. Funnily enough you can draw a parallel with Staka when it first dropped and the potential effect it could’ve had on full TR teams or as a stand-alone TR user. That never took off at the time and now here we have a bunch of ppl talking about how bad those sets are. That comparison is a little unfair on Bish but it's kind of how I see it. It is definitely scary under scenarios but Jesus is it awkward to fit at times onto squads because it’s priority typing and reliability is significantly worse than Scizor’s for me within the tier, and we have stuff like Cobalion offering greater speed and bulk which translates into utility. I just don't think we've seen enough of the teams that Bisharp supposedly makes so much better in action yet to decide it's A+ material, because on it's own merits I don't think it gets there.

Nihilego's problem has always been 4 moveslots. A Nihilego that could run all of Protect+SR+3 attacking moves would legitimately be a top tier mon but obviously you can say that for a lot of mons so I guess that's not really too helpful lol. The point being that on every Nihilego set you're forced to make compromises which leads to flaws that can be taken advantage of by your opponent. I would still probably disagree with it dropping into the B ranks but it's not the worst suggestion and something I'd need to think on more.

 

[avarice]

Bisharp A -> A+ Rose said it well— pretty much all forms of offense benefit from this thing in the tier. LO, Z Dark, you name it. Not to mention all the different more defensive sets like SR and Taunt that aren’t used much. However, it can still be prove to be underwelming with how it can be stopped by common mons like chesnaught. It may just be how it's new resulting in people being overprepared but it might be just fine in A for now. I'm not so sure about a rise.

Blissey A- -> A I think Bilssey definitely deserves the rise. Besides being an annoying fat fuck, it synergies well with other increasingly prevalent fatmons slowbro and steelix. Blissey can even fit on offense with healing wish if desired.

Primarina A- -> A I've been loving bulky specs prim + z focus blast hydrei to lure empo but primarina’s normal specs and bulky variants are super strongly right now just be the virtue of consistently answering hydra. It also likes the increase of Chesnaught and somewhat Nidoqueen.

Heracross B+ -> B Simply don't get why you'd use heracross over lucario or other fightings at the moment. Every time I’ve tried using it I’ve ended up just switching to a different fighting. CB Guts is probably the best set if you're gonna use it since boosting with a different fighting is prolly better..

Volcanion B+ -> B Volcanion is one of my favorites but it's hard to get good use of right now, I still like its sub toxic and the raw power of specs sets but idt it's enough to keep it in B+. The variety of Z’s are fun to mess with too, but yeah.

Tsareena B- -> B With bisharp potentially going to A+, there’s no reason goatareena should be held back in B-. Rapid spin is great with the fears of using defog and tsareena can easily threaten common spin blockers like Jellicent and gengar from coming in with power whip and knock off. It makes a great pivot for mons like Moltres too. Tsareena also doesn't truly need meadowplate/CB to hit hard either and can just use something like lum berry.

Toxicroak B- -> C+ Pearl’s toxicroak team submitted to Break this Team has been fun to play with and toxicroak easily pulls its weight. Most of the bulky water solely run scald offensively with their other form of damage being toxic. Volcanion being rare is also appreciated. After not a lot ignored chip on steelix, Toxicroak can dismantle the lix + Florges teams. Cleaning with sucker punch is always great too. Also I think special variants can be explored/used at all, as I can’t remember the last time I saw a non SD croak. And it obviously finishes off bisharp with ease with or without vacuum wave.

Palossand C -> C+ Terrakion isn’t exactly S worthy just yet, but it surely has a huge influence on the tier with the popularity of slowbro and increase in some oddballs like Cresselia. Palossand is a reliable answer for Terrakion and can be nice against VoltTurn as it resists bug and serves as an electric immunity. Hippo being more prominent can serve in its favor as shoreup gives Palossand more health in the sand, allowing the sand castle to win a toxic stall.

Mienshao is an interesting pick right now. AV Shao has had a fair amount of hype since it's use in the tour with triple regen, but the other choiced sets are completely garbage either. CB Shao is a monster with webs support but AV is still its best set easily. AV Shao + MLix has been a nice combo for when florges's fairy typing nor removal are needed or when I'm looking for a faster paced team. Steelix can handle lati, zera, and bisharp while shao does its thing. Being able to relieve stopping volturn pressure from lix is always handy, since lix doesn't appreciate overheats at all. Mienshao still synergies well with amoongus and slowbro for the triple regen core even with bisharp/zera in the tier now. Mienshao abilities to pivot, chip w fake out, and cripple w knock off are all really solid pluses for it that help a plethora of pokemon use their sweeping capabilities. That being said, I think mienshao has enough to warrant the rise to B. It certainly outshines other mons in B- such as sylv and pidge as is.

 

[justdrew]

I will be brief

Discussion Points

Blissey A- -> A: Agree
As the cornerstone of every stall team I don't see how Blissey can't be A tier. Blissey is able to wall a large majority of special attackers and sponge half of the tier. Without this Pokemon stall would suck tbh. For playing a key role in one of the most consistent strategies in UU this mon def deserves a place in A tier. Blissey can also be used on balance or even offense (shoutout sparrows Blissey offense team where is he miss that guy).

Primarina A- -> A: Agree
I've always had a big thing for defensive Primarina for one reason, its great matchup versus offense. Anti offense Pokemon like Prima and Moltres have never been better. With an spike in hyper offense usage Prima is a great check to threats such as Cobalion, Hydreigon, Mega Altaria, Crawdaunt and friends. This wave of anti Slowbro offense is stopped dead in its tracks by Primarina and I think it's a great time to bump up this Pokemon. Don't forget how Rest Talk is a great way of stalling out stall.

Tsareena B- -> B: Unsure
I always appreciate hazard removal that can 1v1 Stealth Rockers, however Tsareenas has 4MSS (4 Move Slot Syndrome). Tsareena always has to run grass move + Rapid Spin leaving you with two slots. Your options are Synthesis, Knock Off, U-turn, and High Jump Kick. If you want longevity you have to go with the Synthesis. If you want to hit Chandelure or Gengar you have to use Knock Off. If you don't want to suck momentum you have to use U-turn. If you want to check Bisharp you have to run High Jump Kick. This is the main reason I'm not sure Tsareena should rise because you're always missing out on something if you use it. Another reason is that vincune is able to stall out Vine Whips with Sub and Protect and can get Scald burns. This unfortunately makes Tsareena not the best check to Suicune. And finally with Amoonguss being back in the tier and Tsareena usually not running U-turn I see Tsareena as meh. Amoonguss easily switches in on Tsareeena and it can’t pivot out so now you’re in a situation where something is going to sleep. Idk let me know your thoughts on this mon because I do really like Tsa.

Toxicroak B- -> C+: Meh
Suicune has always been an issue and Toxicroak does have a good stall matchup. I think it can stay where it is just because I have seen a lot of Suicune and stall on the ladder and good players like Pearl have utilized it very well in tournament matchups before.

Palossand C -> C+: Agree
As someone who believes Terrakion should be A tier, I don't see how the best Terrakion counterplay in the tier is C tier. Bump it up to B- and I wouldn't complain. With the added bonus of being a Cobalion and Mega Aerodactyl check this mon is too damn reliable and useful to be C tier. Sure it's niche but anything with the ability to laugh in the face of the best wall breaker UU has seen in a very long time shouldn't C-.

K maybe I wasn't brief but enjoy

 

[Taptricity]

I’ll make this brief with two nominations that I have in my mind at the moment.

Steelix: Get this unmon spike setting shit outta here.

Mega Steelix to B+

At this point in the metagame, I believe that Mega Steelix is on par with Mega Aggron and if not that even better. It's Curse set combined with Wish support makes it a very formidable Pokémon in the meta and I've found myself choosing Mega Steelix over Mega Aggron much more to add an Electric immunity while having a pretty solid counter to Latias (Surf Latias is gay sorry not sorry Sage). Even when Mega Aggron has a far superior ability I just don't think that a plain Steel-type doesn't cut it anymore in this metagame. Mega Steelix has also synergized well with the other amazing fat fucks in the tier like Blissey and Slowbro.

Stakataka: Imma crush a bitch!
Stakataka to B

Yeah honestly Stakataka is pretty bad right now and is such an awkward pick on anything other than OTR. Every strong Flying type currently has easy counterplay against the UB and it struggles do accomplish anything. The Stealth Rock set loses to almost every relevant hazard removal and I just feel like that set is outclassed by Diancie. Diancie has bad matchups against current hazard removal but it does compress a very necessary Dragon resistance currently. There are just so many strong and dominant Fighting-types in the tier along with rising threats like Lucario and Chesnaught that Stakataka just can't keep up with unless it uses a Trick Room set. Stakataka just hates a lot of new metagame trends to the point that it just really sticks out like a sore thumb in B+.

Thanks for reading as always!