UU Simple Questions Thread

[PokefanAidan]

Anyone having any suggestion for good mons to form a balance core with Colbur Berry Slowking?

 

[Hogg]

Anyone having any suggestion for good mons to form a balance core with Colbur Berry Slowking?

Here's a team of mine built around a balance core of Colbur NP Slowking and Mega-Abomasnow. I've had pretty good success with it overall, feel free to play with it as you'd like.

team

Abomasnow @ Abomasite
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 76 HP / 252 Atk / 180 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Seed Bomb
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake

Slowking @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick Room
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Nasty Plot

Umbreon @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Heal Bell
- Wish
- Protect

Heracross @ Choice Band
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Knock Off
- Earthquake

Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Volt Switch
- Rapid Spin

Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- U-turn

 

[PokefanAidan]

Here's a team of mine built around a balance core of Colbur NP Slowking and Mega-Abomasnow. I've had pretty good success with it overall, feel free to play with it as you'd like.

team

Abomasnow @ Abomasite
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 76 HP / 252 Atk / 180 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Seed Bomb
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake

Slowking @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick Room
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Nasty Plot

Umbreon @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Heal Bell
- Wish
- Protect

Heracross @ Choice Band
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Knock Off
- Earthquake

Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Volt Switch
- Rapid Spin

Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- U-turn

Looks pretty nice. Thanks Hogg.

 

[Druddi]

Hi! This is my Whimsicott. What do you think about it? I'd like to teach him one more non-damaging attack since he has the ability Prankster, but I'm too lazy to breed it to get Encore. Any other options? At the moment, this is it, and I don't really like it...

Whimsicott @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Giga Drain
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- Toxic

 

[DaSpoofy]

Hi! This is my Whimsicott. What do you think about it? I'd like to teach him one more non-damaging attack since he has the ability Prankster, but I'm too lazy to breed it to get Encore. Any other options? At the moment, this is it, and I don't really like it...

Whimsicott @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Giga Drain
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- Toxic

Psychic is a cool option for poison types that want to switch in but I would go with encore over toxic since prankster + encore is what makes whimi viable in UU.

 

[Druddi]

I see... So, the perfect set would be as mine but with Encore instead of Toxic? Thanks!

 

[Kink]

I see... So, the perfect set would be as mine but with Encore instead of Toxic? Thanks!

Well, no, the more ideal offensive Whimsicott would be:

Whimsicott @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- Giga Drain / Energy Ball
- Encore
- U-turn / Tailwind

Giga Drain is an alternative choice that provides decent recovery, regardless of which item is used; however, the power decrease as compared to Energy Ball is noticeable. Encore forces the opponent to repeat the previously chosen move, usually to Whimsicott's advantage. U-turn is used to pivot out of a bad matchup. Tailwind can be used over one of these moves in order to give slower wallbreakers the opportunity to break through faster teams. Life Orb is generally the primary option in order to give Whimsicott reasonable wallbreaking capability. Leftovers can be used alongside Giga Drain to retain some defensive pressure, despite this being an offensive set. Stun Spore can be used over Encore or U-turn / Tailwind as a last-ditch option for offensive teams to combat fast sweepers.

 

[Kairak]

So i'm looking to make a team around specs sap sipper goodra and cb donphan, how would i go about knowing what team members to add to make a nice balanced team?

 

[canasian]

Well for starters, if you want to use Donphan it probably shouldn't use a Choice Band, because it should really be running Rapid Spin to not be outclassed by better Ground-types like Mamoswine and Krookodile.
Besides that, you would want a bulky water type since Goodra and Donphan share a common weakness to ice.

From there, I'd probably pick something that benefits from the walls Goodra breaks with Specs Dracos being softened (having trouble thinking of anything in particular since Goodra isn't that great to begin with tbh, but that'd be the idea)

 

[Kairak]

Then should i run assault vest rapid spin or SR/rapid spin defensive? Also, the only water type that comes to mind is either Vaporeon or Alomomola.

 

[MegaFlareon]

Defensive is usually better as you can use Stealth Rock as well as having more longevity to give you more chances to spin. The added bulk is also nice if you plan to use Vaporeon and Alomomola as they can pass wishes.

 

[Kairak]

Yeah, I'm using Wish/BP Vaporeon with them so it's working so far.

 

[DaSpoofy]

So i'm looking to make a team around specs sap sipper goodra and cb donphan, how would i go about knowing what team members to add to make a nice balanced team?

Dude dont listen these niggas!
Donphan @ Choice Band
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 52 HP / 252 Atk / 204 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Gunk Shot
- Head Smash

You don't have to run standard! CB donphan has a lot of cool niches like a really powerful EQ. Your starting cores can be as unique as you want. Standard stuff comes in when you want to build around them to make them work. Innovation is the best strategy you can use!

 

[Kairak]

I have knock off instead of head smash for coverage.

 

[lllg17]

You don't really need Knock off. Most people will suspect Donphan to have Knock off or Superpower so they might not stay in. You can obviously use it if you want now that Reun is becoming more popular, but Head Smash destroys flying types on the switch and can help facilitate sweeps while wall breaking. As long as you're not facing Hoopa Confined you'll be fine.

 

[Serperior for Uber]

So in the suspect thread I've seen some references to "passive stall", but isn't all stall passive by nature? If not, what would be active stall then?

 

[YABO]

Passive is stall that almost exclusively relies on hazards + toxic to deal all of its damage. Passive stall is the type of stall that loses to things like reuniclus, work up pidge, sub bulk up braviary, etc. A more active version of stall could be something that has a couple of bulky set up mons like Snorlax or suicune that can win the game once it's counters and checks are weakened by hazards. While stall is by definition the most passive playstyle, like all other archetypes certain teams are more or less active than their counterparts.

 

[Cogito]

Why isn't Slurpuff ranked at least A+?

Yes it has one good set but it does it extremely well. Can recover health with drain punch and punch through teams with both play rought and return.

 

[YABO]

There are a bunch of things that stop it from setting up and several that beat it regardless if it is at +6 or not. In addition, it is highly vulnerable to priority picking it off after it is set up. It's a great mon, but not really A+ material.

 

[canasian]

Slurpuff is fairly easy to prepare for since the things that can cut short its sweep (Doublade, Crobat, Mega Aggron, full-health Chandelure, etc) fit on a wide variety of teams, and what was once it's number-one setup opportunity (-2 Hydreigon) is at best a 50/50 now since it so frequently runs Taunt.

EDIT: ninja'd but I'll leave this up since I named the specific examples

 

[Christo]

Why isn't Slurpuff ranked at least A+?

Yes it has one good set but it does it extremely well. Can recover health with drain punch and punch through teams with both play rought and return.

It is a Pokemon that succeeds solely on team match up or if your opponent let you weaken his Slurpuff counter. It also depends on Hazards being off the field most of the time, and like you said, has one set. I hope this answers your question along with the others that responded

 

[Hogg]

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned is that it really only has one chance to set up. Once you click BD, you're not getting another chance if you get forced out, because you lose your Unburden boost. Compare that to something like Luke or Gatr, who can potentially set up multiple times in a match.

Slurpuff is super threatening (and plays absolutely wonderful mind games right from team preview) but it isn't as reliable as other threats, such as Feraligatr or Salamence, who are also less predictable and less reliant on team matchup.

 

[pokemonisfun]

Passive is stall that almost exclusively relies on hazards + toxic to deal all of its damage. Passive stall is the type of stall that loses to things like reuniclus, work up pidge, sub bulk up braviary, etc. A more active version of stall could be something that has a couple of bulky set up mons like Snorlax or suicune that can win the game once it's counters and checks are weakened by hazards. While stall is by definition the most passive playstyle, like all other archetypes certain teams are more or less active than their counterparts.

Serperior for Uber I would respectfully disagree with YABO although I agree with your sentiments. Strong stall teams are certainly capable on almost relying exclusively on hazards and status to do all their damage (opposing Life Orb recoil, move recoil, weak/very weak STAB and coverage moves like Seismic Toss Blissey, Leech Seed and certain very specific conditions like Perish Song can make up the rest). Set up sweepers are not necessary on "active" stall so to speak. From reading the suspect thread posts I believe when we refer to "passive stall" we basically just mean "bad stall". It is not true that stall without set up attackers are "bad/passive". Also I would not say it is true that a stall team with a bulky set up sweeper or a "win condition" so to speak is always good (although this should be more obvious and agreeable).

For instance one of my main stall teams is Tangrowth / Slowking / Blissey / Steelix Mega / Crobat / Tentacruel. Most of the sets are near standard with small tweaks to make sure common stall breakers don't easily beat me. I do not use any set up sweepers so in this sense, according to a typical definition, I would be a passive stall team. But this certainly isn't a bad stall team. I built in specific countermeasures such as Flash/Dragon Tail Slowking to give me a very good chance to beat last Pokemon Reuniclus and Leech Seed Tangrowth to beat last Pokemon Snorlax and Suicune more easily. I was able to build these measures in without significantly reducing my chances against the more "general" metagame - just look at the entire viability ranks; I pretty much have a solid response to every single threat when looked at in a vacuum.

A solid formula to making a stall team is countering at least 95% or so (arbitrary high number, no science behind this) of the metagame within 6 Pokemon (yes its okay to lose to obscure threats but please don't make a stall team that just gets 6-0 by every Feraligatr set and as I mentioned before even offense and balance will lose to obscure threats as well, just in a less dramatic fashion so to speak). This might sound great (wow I can beat 95% of all teams by definition!!!) but then realize your opponent gets six slots just like you so you may be more hard pressed to deal with combination threats (BD Slurpuff + SD Haxorus, technically Fortress counters both but it only has enough health to counter one really). That is when the "plays" of the stall user has to come in during the game. Then within those 6 Pokemon also try to include as much utility as possible, with some of them as being near necessities like Stealth Rock, Heal Bell/Aromatherapy, Wish (rule of thumb I personally use is Wish is necessary if you have 2 or more mons without recovery outside of Leftovers/Black Sludge), Defog/Rapid Spin/Magic Bounce (props to you if you can make a stall team with a Magic Bounce user, I haven't yet). The more utility moves/slots (I consider for instance a ghost type to be a utility slot) you can cram in the better. Quality of utility moves matters as well, Granbull relative to Blissey is generally a horrible cleric but if your Blissey can't fit in Heal Bell then Granbull will just have to do. Lastly, and this is the most relevant part your post Serperior for Uber, you make sure your counters are really counters even in last Pokemon scenarios - yes Roar Suicune technically counters Curse Snorlax but if this is your only response you will lose in a last Pokemon scenario. So if you do not have something specific, like Roserade to beat last Pokemon Suicune, you will need to add a utility move somewhere to beat it like Curse Spiritomb or Flash Slowking or Leech Seed Tangrowth or Worry Seed Florges or .... you get the point.

This is a good formula for stall and stall itself is good right now - if you played stall last generation UU compared to this generation you will really know what I'm talking about, last generation I couldn't even cover all the UU threats in the metagame let alone UU + lower tier threat, this generation I feel like I have covered all of UU while missing only a few random lower tier threats. The point is nowhere in that formula do I mention "include a set up sweeper". Certainly they can be useful - adding Curse Swampert Mega is one of the only Swampert Mega sets that can counter Reuniclus in a last Pokemon scenario and Curse Snorlax can counter last Pokemon Suicune (not 100% sure on this one seeing as I never used Curse Lax on stall though I'm about to try it out). In fact I would argue the set up sweepers tend to be part of utility but not necessary utility such as Stealth Rock and Defog/Rapid Spin/Magic Bounce. But as long as you have specific answers to these stall breaking threats they aren't going to roll over you. Those specific answers do not have to be set up sweepers.

Too long didn't read, I would say passive is not bad if you define passive as "no set up sweepers" and the stall building process reveals why that is true.

PS while that formula works for a typical "standard" stall team in generations 3-6 (the ones I played) it is quite different (in practice although not really in principle) if you're building for instance a Shedinja Stall team or a Stallrein team (RIP) or a Suicune stall team (Aqua Ring + Substitue + Protect + Scald + Leftovers + Toxic Spikes + Pressure, very similar to Stallrein except it takes an extra turn to set up and an extra move slot in exchange for a few obvious benefits). I think it is quite clear what a standard stall is compared to these even more dickish unique teams so you'll know when to use the formula.

PPS if you want to use Suicune stall in lower tiers you can use Wailord as a replacement.

 

[teal6]

Not much to add but that is an excellent post PIF and I enjoyed reading it from the perspective of someone who builds what many of us consider to be unique and potent stall teams.

 

[Cheryl.]

Serperior for Uber I would respectfully disagree with YABO although I agree with your sentiments. Strong stall teams are certainly capable on almost relying exclusively on hazards and status to do all their damage (opposing Life Orb recoil, move recoil, weak/very weak STAB and coverage moves like Seismic Toss Blissey, Leech Seed and certain very specific conditions like Perish Song can make up the rest). Set up sweepers are not necessary on "active" stall so to speak. From reading the suspect thread posts I believe when we refer to "passive stall" we basically just mean "bad stall". It is not true that stall without set up attackers are "bad/passive". Also I would not say it is true that a stall team with a bulky set up sweeper or a "win condition" so to speak is always good (although this should be more obvious and agreeable).

For instance one of my main stall teams is Tangrowth / Slowking / Blissey / Steelix Mega / Crobat / Tentacruel. Most of the sets are near standard with small tweaks to make sure common stall breakers don't easily beat me. I do not use any set up sweepers so in this sense, according to a typical definition, I would be a passive stall team. But this certainly isn't a bad stall team. I built in specific countermeasures such as Flash/Dragon Tail Slowking to give me a very good chance to beat last Pokemon Reuniclus and Leech Seed Tangrowth to beat last Pokemon Snorlax and Suicune more easily. I was able to build these measures in without significantly reducing my chances against the more "general" metagame - just look at the entire viability ranks; I pretty much have a solid response to every single threat when looked at in a vacuum.

A solid formula to making a stall team is countering at least 95% or so (arbitrary high number, no science behind this) of the metagame within 6 Pokemon (yes its okay to lose to obscure threats but please don't make a stall team that just gets 6-0 by every Feraligatr set and as I mentioned before even offense and balance will lose to obscure threats as well, just in a less dramatic fashion so to speak). This might sound great (wow I can beat 95% of all teams by definition!!!) but then realize your opponent gets six slots just like you so you may be more hard pressed to deal with combination threats (BD Slurpuff + SD Haxorus, technically Fortress counters both but it only has enough health to counter one really). That is when the "plays" of the stall user has to come in during the game. Then within those 6 Pokemon also try to include as much utility as possible, with some of them as being near necessities like Stealth Rock, Heal Bell/Aromatherapy, Wish (rule of thumb I personally use is Wish is necessary if you have 2 or more mons without recovery outside of Leftovers/Black Sludge), Defog/Rapid Spin/Magic Bounce (props to you if you can make a stall team with a Magic Bounce user, I haven't yet). The more utility moves/slots (I consider for instance a ghost type to be a utility slot) you can cram in the better. Quality of utility moves matters as well, Granbull relative to Blissey is generally a horrible cleric but if your Blissey can't fit in Heal Bell then Granbull will just have to do. Lastly, and this is the most relevant part your post Serperior for Uber, you make sure your counters are really counters even in last Pokemon scenarios - yes Roar Suicune technically counters Curse Snorlax but if this is your only response you will lose in a last Pokemon scenario. So if you do not have something specific, like Roserade to beat last Pokemon Suicune, you will need to add a utility move somewhere to beat it like Curse Spiritomb or Flash Slowking or Leech Seed Tangrowth or Worry Seed Florges or .... you get the point.

This is a good formula for stall and stall itself is good right now - if you played stall last generation UU compared to this generation you will really know what I'm talking about, last generation I couldn't even cover all the UU threats in the metagame let alone UU + lower tier threat, this generation I feel like I have covered all of UU while missing only a few random lower tier threats. The point is nowhere in that formula do I mention "include a set up sweeper". Certainly they can be useful - adding Curse Swampert Mega is one of the only Swampert Mega sets that can counter Reuniclus in a last Pokemon scenario and Curse Snorlax can counter last Pokemon Suicune (not 100% sure on this one seeing as I never used Curse Lax on stall though I'm about to try it out). In fact I would argue the set up sweepers tend to be part of utility but not necessary utility such as Stealth Rock and Defog/Rapid Spin/Magic Bounce. But as long as you have specific answers to these stall breaking threats they aren't going to roll over you. Those specific answers do not have to be set up sweepers.

Too long didn't read, I would say passive is not bad if you define passive as "no set up sweepers" and the stall building process reveals why that is true.

PS while that formula works for a typical "standard" stall team in generations 3-6 (the ones I played) it is quite different (in practice although not really in principle) if you're building for instance a Shedinja Stall team or a Stallrein team (RIP) or a Suicune stall team (Aqua Ring + Substitue + Protect + Scald + Leftovers + Toxic Spikes + Pressure, very similar to Stallrein except it takes an extra turn to set up and an extra move slot in exchange for a few obvious benefits). I think it is quite clear what a standard stall is compared to these even more dickish unique teams so you'll know when to use the formula.

PPS if you want to use Suicune stall in lower tiers you can use Wailord as a replacement.

PIF holy crap that was long.