Venusaur (QC 0/3)

[jc104]

Overview
########

• great new mega with fantastic bulk, very few weaknesses, reliable recovery and decent power.
  
• Anything but flying and psychic types with STAB moves will have some difficulty breaking through.
  
• poor STABs give it pretty bad 4MSS. Finds it hard to fit great support moves like leech seed and sleep powder on its sets.
• uses up the mega slot
• misses leftovers

Defensive Mega
########
name: Defensive Mega
move 1: Synthesis
move 2: Sludge Bomb
move 3: Giga Drain
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Leech Seed
ability: Chlorophyll
item: Venusaurite
evs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
nature: Bold

Moves
========

• The only move that is truly required is synthesis, because without leftovers you'll be worn down far too quickly otherwise.
  
• Sludge Bomb is also pretty crucial - it hits flying types hard, above all else. Also hits some fairies. It generally hits the things that actually like to switch into venusaur.
• Giga Drain is obviously a great move. Most of its targets tend to give venusaur a wide berth in my experience, however, as they can hardly touch venusaur. Important targets are Manaphy, Rotom-W, Garchomp and Landorus(-T). Power Whip, while more powerful, is less accurate, and is much less effective while burned (rotom-w...)
• Leech Seed does at least some damage to non-grass types and provides a little recovery for venusaur, and, critically, your other pokemon. Easy move to spam, especially as sludge bomb hits most grass types hard.
  
• Either EQ or HP Fire is nice to hit steels, such as Aegislash and Bisharp. EQ is obviously also good for heatran, which completely walls venusaur otherwise. HP Fire is particularly good for Ferrothorn, as well as Scizor.
  
• Sleep Powder offers a reasonable chance to take an opposing pokemon pretty much out of the match.
• Roar can be used to prevent venusaur being set up on, and to do damage to potential counters via hazards.
• Knock Off provides some coverage e.g against latios/latias, and can also, like leech seed, do some damage to almost anything.
• Mostly, you have to accept that you are going to be completely walled by at least something (e.g ferrothorn, heatran). Consider carefully which pokemon are more problematic for your team. If your team has difficulty with heatran, use EQ.

Set Details
========

• Chlorophyll is the preferred ability prior to mega evolving as it can be highly useful against sun teams. Venusaur will outrun base 130s with the given spread, and if using EQ, will outrun base 110s even with the hindering nature. Overgrow is unlikely to be useful, as Venusaur should be mega evolving before it hits 1/3 health.
• Physically defensive spread is listed, but a specially defensive spread is a good option to better deal with threats such as manaphy, aegislash, and keldeo.
  
• Venusaur is easily bulky enough to pull off a mixed defensive set. Even an offensive spread with a modest nature is a reasonable option if you feel that venusaur is killing your team's momentum.
  
• 16 speed evs are to outspeed max adamant mawile and belly drum azumarill. 92 is also a good option for the jolly versions of these (azu in particular can be bad for a stall as it is harder to prevent setup)

Usage Tips
========

• It's usually a good idea to get venusaur in early and mega evolve, as it can have some difficulty switching in without having done so, particularly against fire and ice attacks.
• Be wary of powerful sweepers like Talonflame and Mega Pinsir - don't let them switch in for free and set up!
• Against some pokemon (without setup moves), you can use synthesis to scout their move. Venusaur can tank pretty much any hit, at least once.
• This might sound obvious, but try to keep venusaur's health high with synthesis. As it lacks leftovers, it is easy to allow it to become worn down by hazards, sandstorm etc.
• Venusaur is almost invariably walled by something, but the opponent doesn't know what that is! Bear this in mind, and consider not revealing venusaur's moveset too quickly. In particular, HP Fire has the potential to do heavy damage to the likes of scizor. Wait until you're sure you can get them before giving the move away.

Team Options
========

• Venusaur is effective within full stall teams, and also bulkier offensive teams
  
• Bearing in mind that Venusaur has trouble with flying-type attackers like Talonflame and mega pinsir, rotom-w is a strongly recommended partner.
• Aegislash deals with most psychic type attackers well, and also helps keep SR on the field (spinblocker and handily beats Lati@s, two common defoggers) - many of venusaur's best switchins are very vulnerable to it.
• Heatran

name: All Out Chlorophyll Attacker
move 1: Leaf Storm / Solarbeam
move 2: Sludge Bomb
move 3: Hidden Power Fire / Earthquake
move 4: Sleep Powder
ability: Chlorophyll
item: Life Orb
evs: 24 HP / 252 SpA / 232 Spe
nature: Modest / Rash

Moves
========

• Focus here is on immediate power, so as not to waste precious sun turns. Leaf Storm is your most powerful option. Solarbeam is a bit riskier; while the weather starters aren't keen to switch into venusaur initially, tyranitar, hippo and politoed can be problematic once solarbeam is revealed.
• Sludge Bomb is powerful, hitting flying-types well and grass and fairy types super effectively.
• HP Fire is boosted by sun to acceptable levels. Offers coverage against steels, except heatran, for whom you will need EQ (2HKO)
  
• Sleep Powder offers a more indirect approach to dealing with difficult pokemon. Be warned that ferrothorn is immune, however, and without HP Fire you won't be able to touch it.
• Growth is tricky to set up, and venusaur is far more easily revenge killed than in last generation.

Set Details
========

• EVs maximise special attack while giving enough speed to outrun deoxys-s in the sun. Venusaur needs more power this gen and can't really afford to run timid. You'll need 180 EVs with timid to outrun scarf latios. (Perhaps more for protect scolipede?)
• rest goes into HP
• Life Orb is the only way to go. You need to get out as much damage as you can over your few turns in the sun.

Usage Tips
========

• Not the sweeper it used to be at all. There are now two priority attackers in Mega Pinsir and Talonflame that can revenge Venusaur. Assault vest users and even opposing mega venusaur can wall venusaur.

• As such you are going to need to weaken the opposing team substantially to sweep with venusaur, and those priority attackers have to be taken out. It is often better to use venusaur simply as a hard-hitter and a revenge killer of your own.
• Be cautious about using solarbeam if the opponent has a tyranitar, hippo, or politoed. The opponent will likely assume you have a grass move, and will probably not switch these in until they actually SEE solarbeam.

Team Options
========

• Sun support, of course (don't use sun venusaur as a standalone). Heat rock ninetales is probably the best choice if you want to set up growth. Mega Zard Y can be used in addition.
• Dugtrio can take out heatran. This saves the need to run EQ, and is very helpful for the rest of a sun team too.

Other Options
########

• Defensive non-mega venusaur e.g SubSeed, or just trying to save a mega slot, is hampered by non-permanent sun and/or outclassed by the likes of tangrowth.
• Growth can be used on a mega set to break through stuff that walls venusaur, but equally cannot break through in return (there are quite a lot of pokemon like this). Also quite effective against sun teams (consider not mega evolving).

• Weather ball is sadly illegal with chlorophyll - a mega venusaur could perhaps be used on a sun team with weather ball, growth and improved synthesis?

• Protect (with leech seed), stun spore, leaf storm on the defensive set

• Curse

Checks & Counters
########

• It is usually obvious whether you are facing the mega set or the sun sweeper based on team preview
  
• For the mega set, counters depend mostly on which moves it carries. The threat of Sleep Powder, in particular, is difficult to deal with (most pokemon that are immune take high damage from sludge bomb). At least you know if you see sleep powder that venusaur will have poor coverage, and you might be able to completely wall it for the rest of the match.
  
• Ferrothorn, while it really can't kill mega venusaur at all, is immune to sleep powder, sludge bomb and leech seed, and takes little from anything else but HP Fire (which doesn't do THAT much that you should worry about leaving ferrothorn in to find out). Ferro can set up SR and spikes on venusaur.
• Kyurem-B is an excellent counter, as TeraVolt nullifies thick fat, allowing it to hit Venusaur with super effective STAB ice type attacks.
• Gengar. Can't break through very easily, but will usually do so eventually if it has some form of healing (lefties, pain split).
  
• Some steel types can act as checks depending on venusaurs coverage move - heatran can wall sets lacking EQ and can fish for a burn on mega venusaur in return. Scizor can wall sets lacking HP Fire. With SD it can bust through in return.
  
• Skarmory can be 2HKOed by HP Fire, but if venusaur lacks this it is a very good counter. It's durable, can set up hazards, and can even try to kill venusaur with brave bird (it will only marginally outdamage synthesis though).
  
• Flying-type attackers such as Mega Pinsir, Talonflame, Tornadus(-T), mega charizard Y don't like taking sludge bomb or sleep powder on the switch, but will force mega venusaur out.
• Psychic type attackers will usually force venusaur out - latios, latias and reuniclus are also relatively good at switching in.
• Some setup sweepers e.g Dragonite, Volcarona
  
• Tyranitar (especially assault vest) can switch in, taking surprisingly little from giga drain and starting sandstorm, wearing venusaur down and cutting synthesis recovery in half. Should probably switch straight out again, though.
• Countering the sun sweeper set is much more about being able to take hits than being able to do sufficient damage in return. Best counters are probably heatran, blissey/chansey, assault vest tyranitar, assault vest conkeldurr, and if SR is not up, Volcarona, Dragonite, and Kyurem-B.
• Revenge killing chloro venusaur is now far easier. You can now use talonflame to OHKO, or pinsir or mamoswine to KO after a little bit of prior damage (e.g LO recoil).

 

[Icyfreez342]

Power Whip is a viable move for the first set as it hits harder. I find with Giga Drain you'll rarely have a chance to use it to get good recovery off, most of the things switching in will take very little from Giga Drain. Brute Root also resists a number of common priority (Aqua Jet, Vacuum Wave, and Mach Punch), and with Thick Fat you won't taking all that much from the most common user of Ice Shard (Mamoswine).

252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 62-73 (17 - 20%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 127-151 (34.8 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

I've also used Toxic on mons switching into Venusaur (anything to wear down Talonflame faster). It's also useable to run it as a special tank as well, but I'm not sure if it will get it's own set.

 

[Colonel M]

Personally I feel that Sleep Powder is not a necessary slash anymore. It's still a great move; however, let's face it - Grass-types and those with Overcoat now obtain a free switch-in from using the move. Were it to be slashed anywhere it probably would be with Giga Drain.

Power Whip is okay but I find that it isn't great because a Pokemon that Mega Venusaur can switch into - Rotom-W - often packs Will-O-Wisp and will always be faster than you if you use Relaxed. The power cut is fairly significant and Giga Drain bypasses the issue of the Attack drop.

Mention that Hidden Power Fire handles Ferrothorn - which Mega Venusaur has almost zero issues switching into. It also prevents offensive Scizor from setting up without much to worry about (EQ does crap and Sleep Powder can be disposed of by another Pokemon).

Leech Seed should, at worst, be in the Moves section. For starters it is used by many people even in the 1850s on up:

[13:08] <Colonel_M> !usage1850 venusaur moves
[13:08] <TIBot> Giga Drain 80.174% | Sludge Bomb 74.002% | Synthesis 49.223% | Leech Seed 48.358% | Sleep Powder 38.576% | Earthquake 25.063% | Hidden Power Fire 21.833% | Growth 12.148% | Toxic 6.281% | Power Whip 5.728% | Roar 4.817% | Substitute 3.760% | Energy Ball 3.400% | SolarBeam 3.094% | Swords Dance 2.971% | Sunny Day 2.732% | Other 17.841%

It's a very good move - arguably could be slashed with Giga Drain as well. To be honest though Synthesis can sometimes have a few liabilities with weather where Giga Drain excels at (for example Tyranitar nor Politoed want to switch into Mega Venusaur with Giga Drain).

Here's the moveset:

- Synthesis
- Sludge Bomb
- Earthquake / Hidden Power Fire
- Giga Drain / Leech Seed / Sleep Powder

Personally I think Giga Drain should be a main slot attack; however, I also understand that the meta still kind of laughs at Grass-types and Sludge Bomb got a nice little buff this generation. Mention Toxic in Moves as well as Giga Drain.

In OO mention Knock Off on Defensive Venusaur. Knock Off is great for harassing switch-ins such as Skarmory (removes Leftovers and Rocky Helmet) and can potentially make it harder for other Pokemon to sweep.

That's about all I can think of at the moment.

 

[Super Mario Bro]

In my spare time (I have way too much of it at the moment), I actually wrote up a skeleton of what I think the analysis should look like. Take from it what you'd like:

Special Attacker
Modest Nature
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
-Giga Drain
-Leech Seed
-Sludge Bomb
-Synthesis

Set comments:
-EVs let it hit as hard as possible. This indirectly increases Venusaur’s bulk, as Giga Drain increases more of Venusaur’s health. It also lets Venusaur break Substitutes more easily – without Special Attack EVs, it wouldn’t be able to break Gliscor’s Substitute with both of its coverage moves.
-Venusaur takes hits excellently even without defensive investment.

Set Details:
-Hidden Power Fire, to prevent it from being set-up fodder for Skarmory, Bisharp, and Scizor. Earthquake, to punish Heatran switch-ins.

Mixed Wall
Relaxed / Bold Nature
252 HP / 68 Def / 188 SpD
-Giga Drain
-Leech Seed / Earthquake
-Sludge Bomb / Roar
-Synthesis

Set comments:
-Venusaur has the typing and stats to be a great mixed wall.
-EVs specifically allow it to live Manaphy’s non-LO +3 Psychic at full health and Mega Lucario’s +2 Flash Cannon after Stealth Rock, and generally let it comfortably take hits from both sides of the spectrum. Lucario cannot OHKO it with either its Nasty Plot or Swords Dance set after Stealth Rock
-Physical Defense is ever-so-slightly greater so that Genesect doesn’t get an attack boost.
-Has severe 4 MSS; slots two and three are completely interchangeable depending on the needs of your team.

Set Details:
-Status – Sleep Powder, Stun Spore, Toxic
-Knock Off
-Become an outright physical wall with 252 HP / 252 Def, or an outright special wall with 252 HP / 252 SpD.

OO: Growth, Swords Dance, Power Whip

 

[jc104]

Power Whip is a viable move for the first set as it hits harder. I find with Giga Drain you'll rarely have a chance to use it to get good recovery off, most of the things switching in will take very little from Giga Drain. Brute Root also resists a number of common priority (Aqua Jet, Vacuum Wave, and Mach Punch), and with Thick Fat you won't taking all that much from the most common user of Ice Shard (Mamoswine).

252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 62-73 (17 - 20%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 127-151 (34.8 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

I've also used Toxic on mons switching into Venusaur (anything to wear down Talonflame faster). It's also useable to run it as a special tank as well, but I'm not sure if it will get it's own set.

Thanks for the advice. Power Whip is definitely going to be mentioned at least in the moves section. You are right that Giga Drain does little to many of venusaur's switchins - that's why it's now the move slashed with leech seed and sleep powder. That being said, I'm not convinced that power whip does all that much more to them, with the possible exception of tyranitar. It comes off a lower attacking stat, and most ground types have higher physical defense than special. I'm not quite sure what you're getting at with the priority moves and mamoswine. Priority moves are barely relevant when we're talking about a pokemon with no speed investment and a hindering nature. If it's to do with grass moves, then either would do fine, and you can even beat LO Mamoswine with resisted Sludge Bomb if need be.

Toxic will be mentioned in the moves section too. Talonflame is probably not the main target, as you are generally better off sludge bombing it, but on any pokemon capable of walling like mega venusaur, toxic is a solid move.

And I'm well aware that a specially defensive spread is also good. It's just that all the moves are the same, so I find it hard to justify a second set. Also, I don't think I would play it all that differently.

Personally I feel that Sleep Powder is not a necessary slash anymore. It's still a great move; however, let's face it - Grass-types and those with Overcoat now obtain a free switch-in from using the move. Were it to be slashed anywhere it probably would be with Giga Drain.

Power Whip is okay but I find that it isn't great because a Pokemon that Mega Venusaur can switch into - Rotom-W - often packs Will-O-Wisp and will always be faster than you if you use Relaxed. The power cut is fairly significant and Giga Drain bypasses the issue of the Attack drop.

Mention that Hidden Power Fire handles Ferrothorn - which Mega Venusaur has almost zero issues switching into. It also prevents offensive Scizor from setting up without much to worry about (EQ does crap and Sleep Powder can be disposed of by another Pokemon).

Leech Seed should, at worst, be in the Moves section. For starters it is used by many people even in the 1850s on up:

[13:08] <Colonel_M> !usage1850 venusaur moves
[13:08] <TIBot> Giga Drain 80.174% | Sludge Bomb 74.002% | Synthesis 49.223% | Leech Seed 48.358% | Sleep Powder 38.576% | Earthquake 25.063% | Hidden Power Fire 21.833% | Growth 12.148% | Toxic 6.281% | Power Whip 5.728% | Roar 4.817% | Substitute 3.760% | Energy Ball 3.400% | SolarBeam 3.094% | Swords Dance 2.971% | Sunny Day 2.732% | Other 17.841%

It's a very good move - arguably could be slashed with Giga Drain as well. To be honest though Synthesis can sometimes have a few liabilities with weather where Giga Drain excels at (for example Tyranitar nor Politoed want to switch into Mega Venusaur with Giga Drain).

Here's the moveset:

- Synthesis
- Sludge Bomb
- Earthquake / Hidden Power Fire
- Giga Drain / Leech Seed / Sleep Powder

Personally I think Giga Drain should be a main slot attack; however, I also understand that the meta still kind of laughs at Grass-types and Sludge Bomb got a nice little buff this generation. Mention Toxic in Moves as well as Giga Drain.

In OO mention Knock Off on Defensive Venusaur. Knock Off is great for harassing switch-ins such as Skarmory (removes Leftovers and Rocky Helmet) and can potentially make it harder for other Pokemon to sweep.

That's about all I can think of at the moment.

Thanks Colonel M. By and large, this will be implemented.

I didn't even know that venusaur got knock off. It's obviously a great move, but I value it for its power far more than its secondary effect, and I think Venusaur does not benefit particularly from dark type coverage. I suppose it's good for aegislash and lati@s, so I'll put it in the equivalent of AC.

 

[Ash Borer]

Mega Venusaur has so many options :c

- Roar
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Synthesis

So, this is the set I was running for an extended period of time, on a defensive mega venusaur and I found it to be the best overall. The thing is, Earthquake, SLudge Bomb, Hidden power fire, Hidden power ice and Giga Drain are all pretty good options for megasaur, but the issue is it's hard to run more than 2, because you need synthesis, as well sleep powder and leech seed are such damn good utilities. Then, the issue is that you get beaten really easily with any combination of moves. For example with Giga drain + EQ talonflame doesnt have much trouble coming in on you, the last thing you want. With Giga Drain + Hidden power or sludge bomb a lot of steel types walk all over you, like lucario. EQ + sludge bomb is alright, but still shit like gliscor, lando, and skarm are a pain. Hidden power fire lets fire types, and dragons kind of screw with yu.

So, I decided that unless I was running a 4 attack set there would still be mons that could be beat megasaur. So I thought if I coulnt beat something i'd jut roar it out, or put it to sleep. It works pretty well imo, especially with hazard support of course.

 

[Ajwf]

For the first set, I would mention under team options that steel types in general are fantastic partners, resisting both his weaknesses. Heatran generally gets special attention because he solves talonflame, a huge issue to mega venusaur.

Also, I do think that having something slashed over Sludge bomb instead of giga drain is a good idea. Giga drain can almost supplement of leftovers on the turn it is used (and sometimes gain you a ton more than leftovers can ever give you). I might even suggest roar, as roar solves issues like Gengar and skarmory, as well as trevenant. These pokemon can't kill venu without a few turns but two are sub users and the other is just going to set spikes all over you.

 

[Jaroda]

Curse/Knock Off is amazing on a max/max SpD spread with some combination of Leech Seed/Sleep Powder/Substitute/Toxic/Synthesis or even Rest. When you become this hard to kill you become a Knock Off abusing asshole. Sleep Powder can take out one of the few mon they likely have capable of threatening you while you safely boost and things will get worn down quickly from Leech Seed trying to kill you, combined with Sub or Rest help with Burn. It's rage quit inducing, and a great special wall in its own right. With hazards out, Leech Seed and Knock Off make him incredibly hard to switch into. Only other Megasaurs don't care about this set and a few other Mega won't get that hurt by Knock Off but certainly won't appreciate Sleep Powder or Leech Seed. Very comparable to Mandibular only better defensive typing and lack of SR weakness and no STAB on Knock Off but with means of making it stronger with Curse.

 

[jc104]

This definitely needs some QC input.

A couple of QC members have suggested that I separate the current mega set into two sets, one with a max special attack modest spread, and one with the mixed defensive spread you now see. I'm afraid, despite having tested it on an offensive team, I cannot really support such a set. The defensive EV spread was more effective in its place; this was largely due to the set having leech seed rather than a coverage move for steels. Leech Seed would virtually always end up being used, as it was in most cases the only move that would do any significant damage. The offensive EVs were just going to waste. IMO if an offensive set is to be used, then something like EQ or HP Fire should be used such that venusaur can damage everything on the opposing team with its actual attacks. While I am happy to allow QC to overrule me on this one, it is necessary in that case that they specify precisely what the set should be, along with good justification for the readers as well as me.

There was also some talk of a mega growth set (and a mega curse set for OO), which I find intriguing, but I have no experience with. Venusaur is very hard to take down, but since it struggles to break through in return this could make some sense. However, I do rather worry that venusaur cannot attain good enough coverage from 2 moves (I still find synthesis a must; if you don't have that you need something that sets up a lot faster). Any idea which moves those should be?

And lastly, everyone I spoke with agreed that sun teams are pretty damn awful, and thus there was some suggestion of removing the chloro set. That being said, I think if the likes of ninetales are getting analyses, then perhaps venusaur's chlorophyll set should too? I still think it's the best chlorophyll pokemon available.

 

[alexwolf]

Include an offensive Mega set:

Offensive Mega
########
name: Offensive Mega
move 1: Sludge Bomb
move 2: Energy Ball / Giga Drain
move 3: Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Synthesis
ability: Chlorophyll (Thick Fat)
item: Venusaurite
evs: 204 HP / 252 SpA / 52 Spe
nature: Modest

Earthquake, Hidden Power Ice, and Knock Off go into Set Details. Spe EVs outrun min Speed Rotom-W. I prefer Energy Ball because it OHKOes 252 HP Rotom-W, unlike Giga Drain, and the extra power is very useful in general, but that's just my preference and any move can go first.

 

[Super Mario Bro]

I agree with alex, but you should move those Speed EVs into HP. Currently, the defensive Rotom-W set doesn't run min Speed.

 

[jc104]

In my experience, based on the ladder, a lot of them actually run min speed or less than min speed (with full IVs). But then, that is the ladder.

Perhaps if we could all agree on HP Fire, I would be happy to add that set behind the defensive one.

 

[Super Mario Bro]

In my experience, based on the ladder, a lot of them actually run min speed or less than min speed (with full IVs). But then, that is the ladder.

Perhaps if we could all agree on HP Fire, I would be happy to add that set behind the defensive one.

I'm fine with HP Fire, but I also think Leech Seed should get a brief mention in Set Details.

 

[Colonel M]

Hidden Power Fire is fine. It's great because Mega Venusaur is an excellent switch-in to Ferrothorn anyway since Gyro Ball is doing squat to it, x4 resistant to Power Whip, and Leech Seed is ineffective. Though like SMB said - Leech Seed should get a brief mention. As arguably should Sleep Powder.

 

[Menshay]

Leaf Storm is also illegal.

It isn't, female Chlorophyll Ivysaurs are available in the Friend Safari.

 

[jc104]

My bad. For some reason I thought it was an event move.

 

[Josh Morales]

There should be a mention of Bisharp as a partner for the Mega Venusaur for the same reason as Aegislash(immune to psychic and can hit SE, punishes defog).

 

[silfan]

I think Tyranitar should be mentioned as a good teammate for MegaSaur.
Resist Flying, immune against Psychic, has strong Rock STAB to threaten common Flying-types and it can Pursuit trap Psychic-types that tries to switch in to MegaSaur.

Edit: Oh yea >_<
Totally forgot about Sand Stream ...
Aside from Rotom-W, Mega Venusaur and Rotom-H are also run together in Stall team as part of FWG core.

 

[jc104]

Bisharp might be mentioned as a partner, though I generally think of it as more of an deoxys HO thing, which venusaur certainly isnt. Tyranitar screws up synthesis and wears venusaur down, and so is a terrible partner despite its convenient typing.

 

[Photofluid]

Giga drain and leech seed should never be on the same set IMO, mainly because leech seed fail to pose immediate threat, and grass is a bad offensive option in general, whatever you put into your forth slot still leaves you open to unnecessary weaknesses.EQ or sleep powder leaves you hopeless against grass type, Sludge bomb have problems against steels, HP fire just hate fire and dragons. Roar could be a choice but this partially kills the reason of taking leech seed in the first place. Plus, the function of the two are also similar to begin with.

Also, concerning the less effective support moves in general(leech seed, toxic, roar, sleep powder), toxic may worth a mention in the defensive set as it allows you to go on with synthesis stall(though not the best idea in the world due to limited synthesis PP). Roar is sub par as you do not receive extra leftover, and sleep powder is sufficiently crippling. In case you are running leech seed (and probably also toxic), protect may worth a mention as the extra turn is now meaningful.

Sludge bomb should be made mandatory in almost every single set not taking toxic(which is rare), not for the like of neutral coverage brabrabra, but that it is your only solution against grass type, which resist or immune 2/3 of your entire move pool and is going to make your life very uncomfortable.

 

[Jaroda]

Regarding a mixed Growth set it was handy for the mixed coverage making it harder to stay in on Venusaur. Giga Drain Earthquake and HP Rock/Fire/Ice depending on your team gives you much better attack options and powering up Giga Drain makes it easier to survive. Ice is a pretty good one though for Flying-types and Dragons. Ferrothorn isn't a concern. Enough Growths and you can 2HKO with EQ. There are and ton of EV options however, but some speed and SpA are a good idea.

 

[Drgnfiv]

On the Defensive set, did you mean to put 252 HP / 68 Def / 188 SD (as that guarantees that Mega Lucario's +2 Flash Cannon will not OHKO after Stealth Rock which was stated earlier) instead of 88 Def and 168 SD? Or does the listed spread do something else specifically?

 

[Jukain]

okay i did a lot of testing with mega venu, and imo the defensive set should look like:

move 1: Synthesis
move 2: Sludge Bomb
move 3: Leech Seed
move 4: Earthquake / Hidden Power Fire / Roar

i had sludge bomb + giga drain...and it did not really work out for me. first of all, being fodder for heatran to burn you and do whatever it wants just sucks. also, you really want to have a way to hit mega lucario. earthquake was the most consistently useful move in my experience.

hp fire is for ferro and skarm (biggest bitch ever), which love to switch into mega venu. depending on how i shook things up in my team, this could prove to be a really good option.

roar is a really excellent option if you're weak to setup sweepers, like i was. especially cm boosters like clefable...which eternally fuck mega venu if you don't have roar. it also allows you to get rid of boosted np mega luc.

i might be missing something, but i really didn't find giga drain all that useful, especially without the utility of that last move...

 

[Super Mario Bro]

The problem is that, without Giga Drain, Venusaur cannot defeat Manaphy, and it's one of Manaphy's best counters in the metagame. It also lets Venusaur punish Rotom-W for attempting to burn it, and damage Tyranitar and Ground-types with something other than Leech Seed. Not to mention, Venusaur doesn't really need to kill Heatran or Skarmory; it can Leech Seed them on the switch and pivot into something else on the team.

 

[alexwolf]

I would almost never use Mega Venusaur without Giga Drain. Sludge Bomb is less of a must imo, though both are pretty much mandatory. The best moveset is Giga Drain / Sludge Bomb / (Synthesis / Leech Seed) / (Earthquake / Hidden Power Fire).