Venusaur

speedwobbles225

Ive been thinking of trying one out, and yes, I have gone to the "simple question simple answer" thread, I dont think this belongs in RMT, and would just like some assistance.

I have been thinking nature wise, +Spec Def or + Spec Attack would be best, but the thing is as a special tank, he loses to ice beams, flamethrowers, AND psychic, why I sort of liked Meganium a little better, but he has no sleep inducing move.

Im not going to stray to far from the standard, but am going to be breeding for Hidden Power, which is another big question mark to me. HP electric would suprise a lot of gyras, but would it be possible to OHKO with some spec attack EV's? I also considered HP fire, but was pointed out it would need modest and 200 Spec attack EV's just to 2HKO skarm, who completely walls him if your running sludge bomb and a grass attack. Ice is something else Ive considered.

Movset wouldnt be too far from standard.
-Sleep Powder [For sure]
-Leech Seed [Im going to end up sticking with it]
-Giga Drain [I know its weaker, but the hp recovery with leftys and possibly seed makes up for it
- HP ________ Yeah, most likely ice or electric.


But just breifly thinking about it, could he be a decent lead? Would force switches on swampert and Gyra. Yeah, I know, im going to garner some criticism from this thread, but want to try something different :/


So bassicaly HP
Electric or
Ice or
Fire

+Spec Def Nature
+Spec Attk Nature

Im also going to be breeding heavily for good IV's and HP and would be glad to share the product if I could get some thoughts/opinions/ and help without being shut down by a mod in 10 seconds.

Any help is appreciated
 
speedwobbles225 said:
Ive looked at it, many times, and have it in another tab, unfortunately, it wont answer questions.
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Actually, according to your specifications, what's closest to what you're looking for is the Scarf set. Otherwise, you want a Venusaur to counter common leads, which means you need to run damage calculations. In which case, go here. Testing in various situations (Gyarados, Hippowdon, Breloom, etc.) will do you some good.
 
I've often used Venusaur as a lead, and I find him very good. Roserade is a good alternative, and most consider him to be better. There's also Celebi, who beats Venusaur in all stats, but has a worse type-combo.
 
Venusaur makes for a very different lead. I tried him with and without a Choice Scarf, and while the Scarf version is slightly better, it does limit him later on in a battle. Having a fast Sleep Powder or even Leaf Storm is a useful start in a lot of cases, and the surprise factor of several useful Hidden Power choices give him some extra variety (Fire/Ice/Ground/Water/Electric all seem to be the more viable choices).
 
Venusaur is somewhat more sturdy than Roserade, probably the main thing going for him. Even without a +Speed nature, he can reach speeds with a Choice Scarf faster than Weavile (although he needs 240 Speed EV to manage this). He could probably even survive a Weavile Ice Shard, since he'd be faster than his Ice Punch or other moves.
 
Dragontamer said:
If you are going to Scarf him, why not use Roserade?

Powerful Leaf Storm, fast sleep powder, stronger hidden powers.
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Venusaur learns Leaf Storm through breeding.

Roserade is just a bit faster than him (286 vs. 306), but he has a higher HP count, Atk. Score and Defense, she has a higher Sp. Def and Sp. Attack.

I do agree I'm not sure what he brings to the game past an initial shock value. People will see Venusaur and go "Whaaattttt?????"
 
Dr.Traveler said:
Venusaur learns Leaf Storm through breeding.

Roserade is just a bit faster than him (286 vs. 306), but he has a higher HP count, Atk. Score and Defense, she has a higher Sp. Def and Sp. Attack.

I do agree I'm not sure what he brings to the game past an initial shock value. People will see Venusaur and go "Whaaattttt?????"
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I just like him better I guess, and want to breed something bulkier

Any HP suggestions? Im going to start breeding now and Electric seems to be the best to me. Electric + Grass seems better than Ice + Grass
 
speedwobbles225 said:
I just like him better I guess, and want to breed something bulkier

Any HP suggestions? Im going to start breeding now and Electric seems to be the best to me. Electric + Grass seems better than Ice + Grass
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Its ok. I like Venusaur too, and I think I might yet try this.

If you pick up HP Electric, I think you'll be in better shape. Right now you can't answer Gyarados with anything other than "Please GOD let Sleep Seed Hit!"

I think I'll be trying this as right now I have Crobat on my team, and its just one too many flying guys.
 
I don't really like Hidden Power on Venusaur other than situational HP Fire; Venusaur's Grass Knot is a 3HKO on Gyarados anyway.
 
COalex said:
I don't really like Hidden Power on Venusaur other than situational HP Fire; Venusaur's Grass Knot is a 3HKO on Gyarados anyway.
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Thats terrible.

and to the other guy, on DS Wifi

EDIT:

Good news for breeding project, first Modest one I got was female, finally I have a nature passer, Ill check its IV's
 
Bouncing this up front.

I was playing with EV's last night on MetalKid's Calculator after looking at the Analysis. I think that you can get by with 200 Sp.Atk Ev's.

I'll post Calc's later, but at 200 Sp.Atk Ev's you can OHKO Hippodown and Swampert. You can OHKO Breloom with Sludge Bomb. You can 2HKO T.Tar.

I dumped the rest of the non-Speed EV's into HP and attack. At 52 Atk EV's you can 2HKO Sword Dance Lucario with Earthquke even with a negative nature.


With 56 HP Ev's, you can take 1 Dragon Danced Ice Fang from BulkyDos. You can also take an Ice Beam from Tyraniboah.

I need to work a bit more on this, but I think there's a lot more potential than I first realized.
 
Dr.Traveler said:
Bouncing this up front.

I was playing with EV's last night on MetalKid's Calculator after looking at the Analysis. I think that you can get by with 200 Sp.Atk Ev's.

I'll post Calc's later, but at 200 Sp.Atk Ev's you can OHKO Hippodown and Swampert. You can OHKO Breloom with Sludge Bomb. You can 2HKO T.Tar.

I dumped the rest of the non-Speed EV's into HP and attack. At 52 Atk EV's you can 2HKO Sword Dance Lucario with Earthquke even with a negative nature.


With 56 HP Ev's, you can take 1 Dragon Danced Ice Fang from BulkyDos. You can also take an Ice Beam from Tyraniboah.

I need to work a bit more on this, but I think there's a lot more potential than I first realized.
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Cool thanks man! My breeding project has been fursturating, the nature isnt passing, and the guy I pmed about his bulbasaur for a parent wont respond :/

Ill keep at it
 
speedwobbles225 said:
Cool thanks man! My breeding project has been fursturating, the nature isnt passing, and the guy I pmed about his bulbasaur for a parent wont respond :/

Ill keep at it
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I have some bulbasaurs and venusaurs from an earlier attempt at breeding him into a Special Tank. Sadly, none are the right nature, nor are they female to breed the Leaf Storm onto. I'm going to try to do some breeding myself next week.

I've got too much work to revisit my calc's and post actual numbers sadly :( However, if you start at 56HP/52Atk/0Def/200Speed/200S.Atk/0SpDef that should be pretty close to ideal for what you'll want to kill with it. What I was surprised at was how bulky it actually was.
 
Dr.Traveler said:
I have some bulbasaurs and venusaurs from an earlier attempt at breeding him into a Special Tank. Sadly, none are the right nature, nor are they female to breed the Leaf Storm onto. I'm going to try to do some breeding myself next week.

I've got too much work to revisit my calc's and post actual numbers sadly :( However, if you start at 56HP/52Atk/0Def/200Speed/200S.Atk/0SpDef that should be pretty close to ideal for what you'll want to kill with it. What I was surprised at was how bulky it actually was.
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I already have a female with decent IV's and its modest, do you have any spitback regardless of nature with good IV's?
 
Dr.Traveler said:
I'll look, but again, the males do not yet know Leaf Storm, which I think is a real essential for this to work out. If I do I'll toss them to you.
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Just lemme know, idc for leaf storm, Giga Drain has been working fine, helps him to tank. HP Electric has been working out alright on shoddy, been able to take some skarms and gyras, but Im considering whether ice would have been a better choice or not.
 
Do use Leftovers? WOuld you consider Large Root? It may prove to not be as effective as Leftovers, but it does increase your Healing Ratio for Giga Drain and for Leech Seed. (or you can Stick with Leftovers).

Also if he uses Leaf Storm he may as well use Roserade- Sleep Powder/Leaf Storm/HP Ice/Leech Seed

Having Giga Drain does serve a purpose, especially when Overgrow kicks in, to heal more.
 
speedwobbles225 said:
Just lemme know, idc for leaf storm, Giga Drain has been working fine, helps him to tank. HP Electric has been working out alright on shoddy, been able to take some skarms and gyras, but Im considering whether ice would have been a better choice or not.
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I've been running Leaf Storm/Sludge Bomb/Sleep Powder/Earthquake on Shoddy with Timid and 56/52/0/200/200/0 as an EV spread as my lead with Choice Scarf.

It's working VERY well and lets me get the jump on a lot of folks. I've got a lot of "How the Hell is that faster than X?" quotes.

That spread and Leaf Storm lets me pop in and assassinate a surprising number of Pokes too. Earthquake is total filler and a waste. If I were more patient I'd breed up HP Electric as it'd let me do reliable damage to Bulkydos. According to MetalKid's calc, a "Perfect" HP Electric with 200 SP.Atk EV's will do 64-77%. That's a 2hko and after the Dragon Dance you're still faster.

If I did have an HP Electric option, I'd toss the 52 Attack EV's over to HP probably for bulkyness. At 200 Sp.Atk EV's Leaf Storm OHKO's or 2HKO's what I need it to and Sludge Bomb drops those cursed Breloom leads.

I HATE Breloom.

Drop me a PM and I'll breed you up a male with Leaf Storm or trade you my Tortegga I've used to breed my Venusaur.
 
hmm, it may be a good idea to not have adament, (use a -def nature), so it can kill Heatran with 400 Base Power EQ (4x effective), and Magnezone too (who is immune to Sludge Bomb, and Resistant to Leaf Storm, or your would-be Hp Electric).

Magnezone has alot of Base Def, so it may need the 10% back from Adament to kill it.
 
qcvtunm said:
hmm, it may be a good idea to not have adament, (use a -def nature), so it can kill Heatran with 400 Base Power EQ (4x effective), and Magnezone too (who is immune to Sludge Bomb, and Resistant to Leaf Storm, or your would-be Hp Electric).

Magnezone has alot of Base Def, so it may need the 10% back from Adament to kill it.
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Neutral nature EQ with 52 ATK Ev's from Choice Scarf'd Venusaur does 75%-88% to Scarftran. Timid Nature (Negative) does 68% to 80%.

Against the Restalker negative nature, 52 ATK Ev's, does 59%-70%, neutral does 65% to 70%.

I don't see a reason really to switch natures. Both are 2HKO straight up while Lava Plume does 92% to 108% to Venusaur from Scarftran.

That means you'd have to try to revenge kill it anyways. You couldn't switch in. I'll keep it in mind though because ScarfSaur is faster than ScarfTran and if I knock down his HP to 68%, its Revenge Kill time.
 
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