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Venusaur

To answer alphatron's question about SolarBeam on Venusaur: The primary reason it is not used is Politoed. Dugtrio cannot reliably kill it, and as a result many sun teams rely on Venusaur to threaten it, which forces the use of Energy Ball. Hence the development of Sunny Day Venusaur, which allows the use of SolarBeam while retaining the ability to threaten Politoed.
 
It has been confirmed in BW2 we'll get an egg with a Kanto starter with its hidden ability.

The important thing is: it has been confirmed Bulbasaur gets Weather Ball.

Source: Pokebeach and Pokemon BW2 website.
 
A Nice Venusaur set that I found on Gamester's RMT, Solar Vengeance, is another LO one.

Venusaur (M/F) @ Life Orb, but Leftovers is viable
IVs: 31-31-31-31-31-30
EVs: 154 Atk/174 SpAtk/180 Spe
Nature: Naive
Trait: Chlorophyll
~Sleep Powder
~SolarBeam
~Earthquake
~Hidden Power (Ice)

Sleep Powder and SolarBeam are there for VERY obvious reasons. It is a mixed set, so there are some added EVs to attack. Earthquake helps against Steels and Fire types, that wall Venusaur. Hidden Power Ice is for Dragons, Flying types, and Other Grass types. Earthquake helps against Blissey and other Special Walls.
 
Say hi to Scizor / Forrestress :(
Didn't an event Bulbasaur get Weather Ball ? Under sun, with HP Ice, it could have nice coverage !

But I'm pretty sure if nobody mentions it, it's Overgrow and not Chlorophyll :( Damn TrollFreaks :(
 
Antihaxxer said:
Say hi to Scizor / Forrestress :(
Didn't an event Bulbasaur get Weather Ball ? Under sun, with HP Ice, it could have nice coverage !

But I'm pretty sure if nobody mentions it, it's Overgrow and not Chlorophyll :( Damn TrollFreaks :(
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You'd be running venusaur on a sun team so I sincerely hope those two wouldn't be a problem. No pokemon can cover every threat. that being said, as long as venusaur hasnt put anything to sleep scizor and ferro just take a nap while the ground trembles until they die.

Oh and the event is only in japan atm, and iirc it hasn't been clear as to which abilitie it has.
 
Venusaur in sun = beast

Now that rain has become even more prominent, most non-weather teams will have to cater to drizzle, leaving sun teams running rampant.

Being a non-weather fan, I wonder who has the advantage over the sun/rain weather war.
 
Kiyo said:
You'd be running venusaur on a sun team so I sincerely hope those two wouldn't be a problem. No pokemon can cover every threat. that being said, as long as venusaur hasnt put anything to sleep scizor and ferro just take a nap while the ground trembles until they die.

Oh and the event is only in japan atm, and iirc it hasn't been clear as to which abilitie it has.
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It doesn't care for battling purposes. When a pokemon is given even if it is given in a lost zone of the planet who nobody knows and there isn't electricity available inside, it is considered legal for most competitive communities.

By the way, Bulbasaur(Venusaur) with Weather ball is given in BW2 as an egg in a Japanese event, and ALWAYS carries Overgrow, so, useless.

I think Sun can be played around even with Sawsbuck, it always outspeeds Venusaur, bar if it carries Sap Sipper, but in this case, don't use it in OU, Chrollophyll is better overall in OU even not carrying Sun.
Sawsbuck is also useful against Rain and Sandstorm teams.


By the way, What do you think about the addition of Giga Drain on Venusaur? Do you think it's broken? Offensive Venusaur can kill the pink blobs now, among other things and it is a way better than Energy Ball.
 
NoUserName said:
By the way, What do you think about the addition of Giga Drain on Venusaur? Do you think it's broken? Offensive Venusaur can kill the pink blobs now, among other things and it is a way better than Energy Ball.
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It is extremely useful- much better than Energy Ball (except against non-rain Tentacruel). In my experience, however, the blobs can take a +whatever Giga Drain easily and just use Thunder Wave, then heal themselves. Even if you put them to sleep immediately, then start boosting, they can take a few hits and wake up to paralyze you.
 
Smaug said:
It is extremely useful- much better than Energy Ball (except against non-rain Tentacruel). In my experience, however, the blobs can take a +whatever Giga Drain easily and just use Thunder Wave, then heal themselves. Even if you put them to sleep immediately, then start boosting, they can take a few hits and wake up to paralyze you.
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But if Venusaur carries Growth, the pink blobs have no chance unless Venusaur gets unable to move by paralysis three times in a row or something.
Against a non-TW blobs, it is free setup.

About Tenta, I find it more useful with Rain Dish even not carrying rain. Liquid Ooze isn't useless but circunstancial, and Tenta has no chance against Conkel anyways barring Acid Spray or something, because the chance of burn against Conkel with Scald.
 
NoUserName said:
But if Venusaur carries Growth, the pink blobs have no chance unless Venusaur gets unable to move by paralysis three times in a row or something.
Against a non-TW blobs, it is free setup.

About Tenta, I find it more useful with Rain Dish even not carrying rain. Liquid Ooze isn't useless but circunstancial, and Tenta has no chance against Conkel anyways barring Acid Spray or something, because the chance of burn against Conkel with Scald.
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Ok just I had to come out and correct that even if it's only tangentially related to the topic. As a common user of Conkeldurr I can say that Tentacruel is actually damn had for Conk to get through without Thunderpunch (lol). Payback just doesn't do enough even WITH boosts and if you're running Ice Punch instead... This is ESPECIALLY true in rain, meaning rain dish actually HARDER for Conk to break through than Liquid Ooze. And honestly if you're using Conk and you're using your resisted drain punch against tenta you deserve to be smacked upside the head.
 
Yeah, Energy Ball is nigh useless compared to Giga Drain; Rain Dish is definitely better than Liquid Ooze, unless you want to play tricks on ferrothorn. Which, since a lot of Tenta's spin, is not going to help very much.

As for growth, you can run something like EQ to hit Heatran instead of Sleep Powder, but SP is generally better. EQ does hit Blissey and Chansey hard, though.
 
For the standard special Growth sweeper, is it worth it to run a Timid nature to get the jump on Scarfed 108s - 115s or stick to modest for the extra power? I'm pretty experienced with using Sun teams as I have used them since the beginning of BW1, but the nature choice still eludes me... This decision has been conflicting as well as deciding between HP Ice or Fire too.

Thoughts? >.>

I also would like to know if anyone thinks it would be worth taking a few EVs out of speed to guarantee survival against things like Adamant LO Lucario's ESpeed at +2 Attack.
 
The Great Gastly said:
For the standard special Growth sweeper, is it worth it to run a Timid nature to get the jump on Scarfed 108s - 115s or stick to modest for the extra power? I'm pretty experienced with using Sun teams as I have used them since the beginning of BW1, but the nature choice still eludes me... This decision has been conflicting as well as deciding between HP Ice or Fire too.

Thoughts? >.>

I also would like to know if anyone thinks it would be worth taking a few EVs out of speed to guarantee survival against things like Adamant LO Lucario's ESpeed at +2 Attack.
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On the subject of modest or timid, I personally run modest. I enjoy the extra power that it provides in certain situations, the most notable is that after rocks sludge bomb has a 65% chance to KO Salamence which otherwise could be a problem to my sun team. However I have wished I had timid at certain times. I had almost pulled out a late game sweep with venusaur only to be outsped by a timid Victreebel. Also I never like having to risk staying in against an infernape that could be CS. But in most cases its really up to what you think your team can handle and what it can't. If you have trouble with base 108 scarfers then you should definitely run timid to get the jump on them. However you may lose the power to KO other threats to your team.

On the subject of the defense EV's I'm going to advise against it. The speed EVs you do have are crucial and allow you to be revenged by opposing venusaurs or other threats (such as those base 108s) and In general Venusaur will be taking LO recoil from every attack so you'd most likely never be at full health vs. a +2 lucario so I dont find that losing power or speed to be able to take a +2 Espeed from full is really that beneficial especially since youd most likely die to lO recoil after surviving the Espeed.
 
Kiyo said:
On the subject of modest or timid, I personally run modest. I enjoy the extra power that it provides in certain situations, the most notable is that after rocks sludge bomb has a 65% chance to KO Salamence which otherwise could be a problem to my sun team. However I have wished I had timid at certain times. I had almost pulled out a late game sweep with venusaur only to be outsped by a timid Victreebel. Also I never like having to risk staying in against an infernape that could be CS. But in most cases its really up to what you think your team can handle and what it can't. If you have trouble with base 108 scarfers then you should definitely run timid to get the jump on them. However you may lose the power to KO other threats to your team.
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Hmmm, well I run Sleep Powder in my moveset with HP Ice. (weird I know, but it works because I got Duggy and Magma Storm Heatran.) I did some calcs and out of the notable Scarfers Timid would let me outspeed (Latios, Terrakion, Infernape, Starmie) ....only Infernape can flat out outspeed and OHKO Venusaur when running modest nature. The other 3 don't come that close to a kill with their most effective move and are easily picked off by Giga Drain or HP Ice (Sludge Bomb for the HP Fire people). And if Venusaur is outsped by an Infernape I'll know its scarfed and get to bring in Heatran for free!

In the case of Latios -- Venusaur actually takes like 89% max from a meteor so even after Life Orb recoil it can still hang on if it was at full HP and the Latios came in on the growth looking to revenge! The worst scenario would be Latios carrying a Psychic STAB move, but people don't run it on scarf, right?

Kiyo said:
On the subject of the defense EV's I'm going to advise against it. The speed EVs you do have are crucial and allow you to be revenged by opposing venusaurs or other threats (such as those base 108s) and In general Venusaur will be taking LO recoil from every attack so you'd most likely never be at full health vs. a +2 lucario so I dont find that losing power or speed to be able to take a +2 Espeed from full is really that beneficial especially since youd most likely die to lO recoil after surviving the Espeed.
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Yeah I can't believe I didn't take LO into account, max speed seems to be the way to go regardless of nature. ^_^
 
The Great Gastly said:
For the standard special Growth sweeper, is it worth it to run a Timid nature to get the jump on Scarfed 108s - 115s or stick to modest for the extra power? I'm pretty experienced with using Sun teams as I have used them since the beginning of BW1, but the nature choice still eludes me...
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I personally prefer Timid because outspeeding Scarf Terrakion / Latios is pretty big as these are generally big threats to Sun Teams. Terrakion revenges Ninetales, Venusaur, Heatran, Adamant Sawsbuck which are all pretty common on Sun Teams. Latios on the other hand outspeeds most common chlorophyll users when Scarfed, and spam Draco Meteors easily, given that the only common Steels used in Sun Teams to resist Draco Meteor are Heatran and Forretress, who both lack reliable recovery. Outspeeding +2 Volcarona is also pretty big, as it hurts a lot of Sun teams that don't carry that many answers to it, and Volcarona generally starts to set up when its counters are gone. The extra power is nice with Modest, but you still don't really miss any OHKOs you would with Modest after a Growth, while outspeeding other scarfers is very important. Another thing I like about running Timid on Venusaur, is that you only really need to run 180 Speed to outspeed everything up to Scarf Latios, while substituting the remaining 76 EVs into HP or Defense to help Venusaur take priority a little better.
 
Jimera0 said:
Ok just I had to come out and correct that even if it's only tangentially related to the topic. As a common user of Conkeldurr I can say that Tentacruel is actually damn had for Conk to get through without Thunderpunch (lol). Payback just doesn't do enough even WITH boosts and if you're running Ice Punch instead... This is ESPECIALLY true in rain, meaning rain dish actually HARDER for Conk to break through than Liquid Ooze. And honestly if you're using Conk and you're using your resisted drain punch against tenta you deserve to be smacked upside the head.
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But usually Tenta has only Scald as its offensive move, it is dangerous to spam to a Conkeldurr and boost its moves.
Ok in rain it's suicidal using Conkeldurr against Tenta because Rain Dish recovery and boosted Scald, but I don't think the same in weatherless, and in sun it's absurdly easy to win against Tenta using Conkel as I did several times,
supposing Tenta don't have Liquid Ooze of course, but now few or none competitive players run it on defensive Tenta.
 
I skimmed the thread and saw some discussion of a mixed Growth set, something that's not really on site. How about:

Venusaur @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 74 Atk / 184 SAtk / 252 Spd
Rash Nature / Naive Nature
- Growth
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Earthquake

EVs guarantee a OHKO on SDef Heatran after SR without a boost, max Speed, rest in Special Attack. If Heatran comes in expecting either a Giga Drain or a Growth, you can actually Giga Drain it on the switch to break a potential Balloon (reducing prediction, which is nice), then OHKO with EQ. HP Ice hits mostly the same stuff as Sludge Bomb, only Grasses weaker and Dragons harder and with no poison chance. The loss of Special Attack versus the pure special Growth set can be troublesome when unboosted, but it gets a lot of the same KOs after a Growth. It's walled by Scizor, Forretress, Genesect, Skarmory, Ferrothorn, etc. of all things, but since it's on a sun team, they really shouldn't be much of a problem. Nature choice is basically outrun some really fast Scarfers and Pokemon at +2 Speed, or have more guaranteed KOs and power in general. The only thing about this is that Earthquake isn't used for much more than Heatran and maybe Jirachi, given that other Steels can handle EQ fairly well and non-Heatran Fire-types are pretty rare. It requires more team support than the pure special Growth set, but that support should be pretty intrinsic in a sun team, what with all the boosted Fire moves being thrown about. Thoughts? Is there something I'm overlooking here?
 
Jimbon said:
I personally prefer Timid because outspeeding Scarf Terrakion / Latios is pretty big as these are generally big threats to Sun Teams. Terrakion revenges Ninetales, Venusaur, Heatran, Adamant Sawsbuck which are all pretty common on Sun Teams. Latios on the other hand outspeeds most common chlorophyll users when Scarfed, and spam Draco Meteors easily, given that the only common Steels used in Sun Teams to resist Draco Meteor are Heatran and Forretress, who both lack reliable recovery. Outspeeding +2 Volcarona is also pretty big, as it hurts a lot of Sun teams that don't carry that many answers to it, and Volcarona generally starts to set up when its counters are gone. The extra power is nice with Modest, but you still don't really miss any OHKOs you would with Modest after a Growth, while outspeeding other scarfers is very important. Another thing I like about running Timid on Venusaur, is that you only really need to run 180 Speed to outspeed everything up to Scarf Latios, while substituting the remaining 76 EVs into HP or Defense to help Venusaur take priority a little better.
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No Scarfer in OU can outspeed Sawsbuck in the sun.
 
Okay I'm currently running this mixed set on my Sun team and would love some thoughts and advice. I'm currently trying to juggle about the EVs, I saw this spread on a post here on Smogon (somewhere, can't remember whose spread it was to give credit, sorry) and it's working well for me at the moment.

Venusaur @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 156 Atk / 172 SpA / 180 Spe
Naive Nature (+Spe, -SpD)
-Solarbeam
-Earthquake
-Hidden Power Ice
-Growth

Now, I'm fairly adamant that I'm going to keep EQ and HP-Ice as they offer beautiful coverage, and the amount of switches it forces means finding opportunities to Growth are rife. The thing I'm contemplating at the moment is Giga Drain over Solarbeam. This is for two reasons. The first being that it's the only Politoed counter on my team, and I can't Solarbeam it for obvious reasons. The second being the life recovery offered by Giga Drain counteracts some of the Life Orb recoil damage, which is nifty. If I do switch for Giga Drain then I would also consider running more SAtk EVs to make up for the loss of power.

Thoughts?
 
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