Resource VGC 16: Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer

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Silver_Lucario42 said:
Also, I saw someone using a Mega Abomasnow once on a Trick Room team. Would it be better to run mixed (with Wood Hammer for Kyogre) or fully special?
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nicholascookie
Banned deucer.

Fucking finally.

Anyway, for Obamasnow:

4 Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 188-224 (90.8 - 108.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

I'm not sure what Pogre typically runs for HP/Def balance but you can probably OHKO it with a reasonable amount of investment. Grass Knot can solidly 2HKO it, if you'd prefer a no-recoil, pure Special alternative.
Keep in mind that if you run Wood Hammer, you take recoil but more importantly you lose the KO if you get Intimidated. Luckily, most people aren't stupid enough to park Landog / Mence in front of Obamasnow, but you never know.
Grass Knot also takes a chunk out of Pdon:

252+ SpA Mega Abomasnow Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Primal Groudon: 124-147 (59.9 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Pdon will obviously murder you with Fire STAB, but if you have TR or Heavy Rain up you can take it on with the right partner. Abomasnow learns Role Play, so you could run something like Ogre + Obama in TR.

edit: never before have I said this, but Abomasnow might actually be good here.
 
ProjectTitan313 said:
nicholascookie
Banned deucer.

Fucking finally.

Anyway, for Obamasnow:

4 Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 188-224 (90.8 - 108.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

I'm not sure what Pogre typically runs for HP/Def balance but you can probably OHKO it with a reasonable amount of investment. Grass Knot can solidly 2HKO it, if you'd prefer a no-recoil, pure Special alternative.
Keep in mind that if you run Wood Hammer, you take recoil but more importantly you lose the KO if you get Intimidated. Luckily, most people aren't stupid enough to park Landog / Mence in front of Obamasnow, but you never know.
Grass Knot also takes a chunk out of Pdon:

252+ SpA Mega Abomasnow Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Primal Groudon: 124-147 (59.9 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Pdon will obviously murder you with Fire STAB, but if you have TR or Heavy Rain up you can take it on with the right partner. Abomasnow learns Role Play, so you could run something like Ogre + Obama in TR.

edit: never before have I said this, but Abomasnow might actually be good here.
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REJOICE!!!!!! He has been banned!!!!!
Also, i wouldn't use mega abomasnow. He is just too slow and useless outside of trick room, his ability is shut down completely by primals, and rubbish typing can't hit anything for squat.
 
R-B-Y said:
REJOICE!!!!!! He has been banned!!!!!
Also, i wouldn't use mega abomasnow. He is just too slow and useless outside of trick room, his ability is shut down completely by primals, and rubbish typing can't hit anything for squat.
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He's really only a really weak check to Landorus, and just to be clear here so I don't get a bunch of "he doesn't check landorus at all you don't know what you're talking about." I'm using the term "check" very loosely.

Also why was nicholascookie even unbanned?
 
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Cleaned up the thread a bit, you people who got your posts deleted/edited did nothing wrong, don't worry, I'm just trying to get rid of traces of him. nicholascookie is permanently banned now, so he isn't coming back ever. So now let's just pretend that never happened
 
I know this does not have anything to do with VGC but since is like his brother I well could ask here:

Where do I find information about learning TCG (of course not the basics but how to go competitive)?

there was a really small TCG community here but I din't find any trace of them, nuggetbridge do have a forum for TCG but I don't want to rely on a single spot for information (I enjoy different points of views).
 
Sidfrid said:
I know this does not have anything to do with VGC but since is like his brother I well could ask here:

Where do I find information about learning TCG (of course not the basics but how to go competitive)?

there was a really small TCG community here but I din't find any trace of them, nuggetbridge do have a forum for TCG but I don't want to rely on a single spot for information (I enjoy different points of views).
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I'd say check out the Top Cut, they were really good when they were around, and check out 6prizes. They've got really good deck building and competitive discussion.
 
so as advised by others, it looks like the best counter to primal groudon is your primal groudon.

btw does scald from any water type pick up ohko on PG at all times??
 
GundamExia said:
so as advised by others, it looks like the best counter to primal groudon is your primal groudon.

btw does scald from any water type pick up ohko on PG at all times??
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Countering opposing PDon can be done with more obscure restricted legendaries such as Palkia and Giratina-O.

Assuming you're switching in an Air Lock/Cloud Nine mon instead of Primal Kyogre, the water Pokémon is running 252 SpA EVs without a boosting nature (you'd probably want Timid instead) and that the Groudon in question is 252 HP / 156 SpD (most bulky variant), all Water types with 96 SpA or higher can perform this task. I assumed a lot of stuff though, and it probably wasn't what you were looking for. Sorry about that.
 
OfficialThatGuy said:

I was wrong, lol.

Well, the set I'm usually seeing from my local scene is:
xerneas-active.gif

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpA
Modest Nature
- Moonblast
- Protect
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Geomancy
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I Use
xerneas-active.gif

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Moonblast
- Protect
- Dazzling Gleam
- Geomancy
Max SpA Xerneas geomancy sweeps for days!!!
 
Federico Nanni said:
I Use
xerneas-active.gif

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Moonblast
- Protect
- Dazzling Gleam
- Geomancy
Max SpA Xerneas geomancy sweeps for days!!!
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did you really need to reply to a post from over 6 months ago to announce something everyone else figured out since then?
 
Just looking for something to be clarified r.e. Fake Out mechanics... If I switched a 'mon with Fake Out into an attack (e.g. Toxicroak to absorb a water attack) could that Pokemon use Fake Out the following turn? It's technically a different game turn, but still the Pokemon's first full turn in play, and its first attack, so I'm not sure how it'd work...
 
Psycho Cut said:
Just looking for something to be clarified r.e. Fake Out mechanics... If I switched a 'mon with Fake Out into an attack (e.g. Toxicroak to absorb a water attack) could that Pokemon use Fake Out the following turn? It's technically a different game turn, but still the Pokemon's first full turn in play, and its first attack, so I'm not sure how it'd work...
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yeah since that's the first turn the pokemon is in play. here's the definition from pokemon showdown:

Has a 100% chance to flinch the target. Fails unless it is the user's first turn on the field.
 
Psycho Cut said:
Just looking for something to be clarified r.e. Fake Out mechanics... If I switched a 'mon with Fake Out into an attack (e.g. Toxicroak to absorb a water attack) could that Pokemon use Fake Out the following turn? It's technically a different game turn, but still the Pokemon's first full turn in play, and its first attack, so I'm not sure how it'd work...
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Yes, you can use Fake Out on the following turn.
Edit: Wow, did we literally post at the exact same time?
 
Big question:among the water types that I can use with Rayquaza (for that Air Lock thing) I heard about Golduck and Suicune,but which are other viable fellow water-types?
I really would like to see your opinion,because I really like the idea of using (Mega) Gyarados,Azumarill or even Feraligatr.
Thanks!
 
kyogre (fairly obvious), i've been using vaporeon recently simply because of helping hand + water absorb but it's probably not viable so that's that. swampert is cool too but that' about all i have
 
I'm looking to put together a team with Primal Groudon and either Cresselia or Bronzong for Trick Room, Gravity, and Skill Swap. I think Skill Swap can do a lot in this meta, especially with weather wars, and swapping Levitate from Cresselia/Bronzong makes its partner immune to opposing Precipice Blades. Trick Room helps Cresselia/Bronzong move first with Skill Swap if necessary (overwrite Primordial Sea with Desolate Land before Primal Kyogre can attack, or pass Levitate before opposing Primal Groudon can attack), and Gravity improves the shaky accuracy of Precipice Blades if I don't need to go the route of passing Levitate, as well as allowing P-Don to hit foes like Thundurus and Salamence Precipice Blades. Any advice on which of the 2 support Pokémon (Cresselia/Bronzong) would be better suited for this purpose, or suggestions for what other Pokémon I might pair with my core?
 
Misdreavus said:
I'm looking to put together a team with Primal Groudon and either Cresselia or Bronzong for Trick Room, Gravity, and Skill Swap. I think Skill Swap can do a lot in this meta, especially with weather wars, and swapping Levitate from Cresselia/Bronzong makes its partner immune to opposing Precipice Blades. Trick Room helps Cresselia/Bronzong move first with Skill Swap if necessary (overwrite Primordial Sea with Desolate Land before Primal Kyogre can attack, or pass Levitate before opposing Primal Groudon can attack), and Gravity improves the shaky accuracy of Precipice Blades if I don't need to go the route of passing Levitate, as well as allowing P-Don to hit foes like Thundurus and Salamence Precipice Blades. Any advice on which of the 2 support Pokémon (Cresselia/Bronzong) would be better suited for this purpose, or suggestions for what other Pokémon I might pair with my core?
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the choice between the two really dims down to whether a second xern answer is necessary. cress does get access to moves like thunder wave and icy wind, while bronzong is left with the same 5 moves (gravity / trick room / gyro / protect / skill swap). some big 6 variants can afford to drop the talon for either of these mons, i've also seen dual primal tr with this as well. oh and you really can't run all three status moves or else you either 1) have no attacking moves or 2) drop protect (which isn't terrible in cress's case but it still wants ice beam / trick room / skill swap / helping hand) :x. also you can try and run gravity with it on gravity teams,but that was kinda obvious.
 
I noticed a trend on the US Nationals top 12 teams: All Bronzong that were Sassy had Levitate, and all Bronzong that were Relaxed had Heatproof. Is there a reason behind this pairing of nature and ability? Is Relaxed chosen with Heatproof to improve defense against the Ground-type attacks (most of which are physical) that those Bronzong are vulnerable to?
 
Misdreavus said:
I noticed a trend on the US Nationals top 12 teams: All Bronzong that were Sassy had Levitate, and all Bronzong that were Relaxed had Heatproof. Is there a reason behind this pairing of nature and ability? Is Relaxed chosen with Heatproof to improve defense against the Ground-type attacks (most of which are physical) that those Bronzong are vulnerable to?
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From messing about on the damage calc, I found that relaxed bronzong with heatproof will optimise its matchup against groudon in pretty cool fashion:

A defensive spread of 228 HP / 220+ Def / 52 SpD will allow bronzong to survive a precipice blades from 252+ Atk groudon as well as an earth power from 252 SpA groudon:

252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 228 HP / 220+ Def Bronzong: 144-170 (84.2 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Primal Groudon Earth Power vs. 228 HP / 52 SpD Bronzong: 144-170 (84.2 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Also, a defensive spread of 228 HP / 108+ Def / 164 SpD will allow bronzong to survive hits from groudon on the other end of the spectrum (jolly/modest)

252 Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 228 HP / 108+ Def Bronzong: 144-170 (84.2 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Primal Groudon Earth Power vs. 228 HP / 164 SpD Bronzong: 144-170 (84.2 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Both spreads leave bronzong at 500 EVs, so you may want to invest the rest in attack, leaving it with a total of 504 EVs (this is a typical case for many non-mixed -speed pokemon).
You may want to go with the first spread, as the relevant natures are much more abundant.

Bronzong with levitate can't reach these benchmarks since fire punch/eruption are more threatening, so sassy nature is preferred to optimise the xerneas matchup etc.

Doing this from my phone so apologies for the quality, I hope this helped :)
 
Well, Heatproof Bronzong is also occasionally a thing since it very much plays the mind game of ability choice when it first comes in. You know it'll be Levitate if you Earth Power it, and you know it'll be Heatproof if you Fire Blast it. There are extremely few pokemon with Levitate that get a second choice in Ability (Flygon for example: Levitate for normal AND hidden ability) and Bronzong is basically the king of the Levitate mind game.
 
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