Resource VGC 2019 Viability Rankings [Moon Series Update]

Uh... as a 1000% vgc player, I have a few complaints. Psyduck and Farfetch'd aren't even memes, they're never seen so if I was editing I'd hit the handy delete button. But for now, let's move Mewtwo to around B or C... it takes a devoted team for it to do anything useful, is super frail besides HP, and is basically asking for an Yveltal to come along and slaughter it and probably its allies. It also loses to ferrothorn despite aura sphere.
 
Uh... as a 1000% vgc player, I have a few complaints. Psyduck and Farfetch'd aren't even memes, they're never seen so if I was editing I'd hit the handy delete button. But for now, let's move Mewtwo to around B or C... it takes a devoted team for it to do anything useful, is super frail besides HP, and is basically asking for an Yveltal to come along and slaughter it and probably its allies. It also loses to ferrothorn despite aura sphere.
The meme category is mostly just for stupid stuff that we've come up with in the smogonvgc discord server to play around with. Farfetch'd was more of a thing in vgc 2018 using defiant, focus sash, tailwind, and flail to do massive damage at 1 health and set up trick room. Really bad but a lot of fun. Psyduck is more meant for Vgc19 as it can clear desolate land effects, live a precipice blades with eviolite, and ohko groudon with hydro pump and sometimes scald. Again, not good but a lot of fun. We talk a lot about viability rankings in the server and it's where we came up with most of the initial rankings as well as all of the memes. We also help build teams and talk about all kinds of fun stuff.

https://discord.gg/gNSWK2

Here's the invite link for any that are interested.
 
The meme category is mostly just for stupid stuff that we've come up with in the smogonvgc discord server to play around with. Farfetch'd was more of a thing in vgc 2018 using defiant, focus sash, tailwind, and flail to do massive damage at 1 health and set up trick room. Really bad but a lot of fun. Psyduck is more meant for Vgc19 as it can clear desolate land effects, live a precipice blades with eviolite, and ohko groudon with hydro pump and sometimes scald. Again, not good but a lot of fun. We talk a lot about viability rankings in the server and it's where we came up with most of the initial rankings as well as all of the memes. We also help build teams and talk about all kinds of fun stuff.

https://discord.gg/gNSWK2

Here's the invite link for any that are interested.
Then why not rank Golduck as well??
 
Tsareena -> A/B

Tsareena is a force to be reckoned with 100%; it pairs extremely well with Kyogre and the couple can outright 4-0 teams that are not prepared. Although it has only a few moves it's all it needs:
-Feint breaks Wide Guard and Protect, not allowing defensive counterplay
-Helping Hand can help guarantee KOs on bulkier mons like Xerneas and Yveltal; also its use isn't limited to being next to Kyogre, any other mon can benefit from it
-Power Whip is Tsareena main offensive move, with STAB it 100% KOs scarfogre, has high chances to take down even bulky Kyogre and Ludicolo, the KO is guaranteed on those if you run Life Orb
-High Jump Kick is a powerful coverage move mainly for Ferrothorn but it does its job of KOing it after Water Spout, Life Orb Tsareena picks up weakened Ferrothorn even at -1
-Fling is rarely seen but with King's Rock it can delay bulky mons from moving and stops opposing Trick Room at least for one turn
It's ability protects Kyogre from priorities which are one of its main fear and works directly on the switch in.

252+ Atk Tsareena Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kyogre: 234-276 (132.9 - 156.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Tsareena Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 160-188 (109.5 - 128.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Tsareena Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Ludicolo: 185-218 (118.5 - 139.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Tsareena Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 100 Def Kyogre: 273-322 (131.8 - 155.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Ferrothorn in Rain: 74-87 (40.8 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Tsareena High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 124-146 (68.5 - 80.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Tsareena High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 107-127 (59.1 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

also, it's an onion
 

Yuichi

umu!
is a Live Chat Contributor
Tsareena -> A/B

Tsareena is a force to be reckoned with 100%; it pairs extremely well with Kyogre and the couple can outright 4-0 teams that are not prepared. Although it has only a few moves it's all it needs:
-Feint breaks Wide Guard and Protect, not allowing defensive counterplay
-Helping Hand can help guarantee KOs on bulkier mons like Xerneas and Yveltal; also its use isn't limited to being next to Kyogre, any other mon can benefit from it
-Power Whip is Tsareena main offensive move, with STAB it 100% KOs scarfogre, has high chances to take down even bulky Kyogre and Ludicolo, the KO is guaranteed on those if you run Life Orb
-High Jump Kick is a powerful coverage move mainly for Ferrothorn but it does its job of KOing it after Water Spout, Life Orb Tsareena picks up weakened Ferrothorn even at -1
-Fling is rarely seen but with King's Rock it can delay bulky mons from moving and stops opposing Trick Room at least for one turn
It's ability protects Kyogre from priorities which are one of its main fear and works directly on the switch in.

252+ Atk Tsareena Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kyogre: 234-276 (132.9 - 156.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Tsareena Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 160-188 (109.5 - 128.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Tsareena Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Ludicolo: 185-218 (118.5 - 139.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Tsareena Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 100 Def Kyogre: 273-322 (131.8 - 155.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Ferrothorn in Rain: 74-87 (40.8 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Tsareena High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 124-146 (68.5 - 80.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Tsareena High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 107-127 (59.1 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

also, it's an onion
Disagree. Although i feel that tsareena is a good mon overall, it only fits specific archetypes and in general is very niche. It is outclassed by both Ferrothorn and Kartana defensively. Its typing also means that it is unable to take on Xerneas, which both Ferrothorn and Kartana are able to handle pretty well. Its middling speed also means that it will have to eat hits before being able to deal damage, which hurts its longevity especially for non av variants. As such i feel that it should stay in C and at most rise up to B
 

cityscapes

Take care of yourself.
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lol @
These Pokemon can snowball very quickly out of control if not stopped early on or specifically teched for
but anyway if drifblim goes to c, i think shiftry should too. i've been using sash fake out/leaf blade/icy wind/filler [knock, tailwind, protect] and it's been putting in a lot of work. leaf blade bops kyogre harder than anything venu has, and while it fails to check xern it can really annoy it with speed control or knocking off power herb. fake out is also really nice to have especially when you outspeed almost the entire meta in sun. overall this mon has just been performing well for me so i think it deserves to be ranked alongside venu.
 

TPO3

Never practice; Always perform.
Thoughts on Solgaleoo -> B?

On first glance it seems like a worse version of Dusk Mane Necrozma, but Solgaleo's got a couple of options that make better in some circumstances. Solgaleo's speed tier allows it to outrun the base 90-95 speed tier which contains a decent chunk of the restricted legendaries. Solgaleo also has access to Flare Blitz, meaning it's not stopped cold by other relevant steel-types in the tier. I wouldn't call it a top tier threat, but I'd say C is a little low considering the other pokes that are sitting in that tier.
 
I all, some good discussion so far. Here are my proposed changes:

Hitmontop : A -> B
I don’t think Hitmontop does enough in the current metagame and it has so far failed to impress me. I feel that Incineroar is a superior Intimidate/Fake Out user, and Ludicolo is also a better fake out user when rain is in play. Wide guard is, of course, the big drawing card for Hitmontop. The best usage I’ve seen so far is as a soft check to Kyogre, but I think there are better Kyogre checks in the metagame at the moment and that Hitmontop shouldn’t be listed alongside them in the A category.

Ludicolo : B -> B+
Ludicolo has really impressed me, both as an excellent partner to Kyogre and as a Kyogre check. I’m finding that I’m commonly leading Ludicolo/Tapu Koko against rain teams and it has been serving me well. Fake out is probably better this season than it has been previously, at least so far, and Ludicolo gets it’s off first in the rain. A Kyogre/Ludicolo lead can be devistating if your oponent’s leads aren’t prepared. Mega drain also does ~50% on a standard Kyogre build, with Ice Beam doing less to Ludicolo. Scald puts in good work against Incineroar. Overall I think Ludicolo would be an A if not from requiring that it is run alongside Kyogre. B+ seems appropriate given the power but the heavy restriction it places on teambuilding.

Mewtwo : B -> B-/C+
I’m yet to be scared by Mewtwo, even when in psychic terrain. It gets OHKO’d by Kyogre, and is checked by the common dark types being run in the meta currently (Incineroar + Yveltal). I do believe that Mewtwo will get better rather than worse as the meta matures, but currently it doesn’t have a good niche to slot in to.

Porygon2 : B -> ??
I don’t have an opinion here, just a question. I haven’t seen Porygon2 once yet. Is it really B-level powerful?

Tapu Fini : B -> B-
Whilst powerful, it is not only outclassed when teambuildling by Kyogre, it is also the worst Tapu choice for the current meta given the threats that need answering. There is very little reason to have Tapu FIni on your team, unless you intend it to be your only check to Incineroar. I don’t think it is C-level bad, as it is clearly a powerful Pokemon; it is, however, clearly the weakest Tapu currently and I believe this should be reflected in its ranking.

Abomasnow : C -> B/B+
As others have said, I think a lot of people are sleeping on Abomasnow. See others’ explanations. I have little else to add here.

Salamence : C -> D
No reason to run Salamence in this meta. It is not powerful enough on its own without being able to mega-evolve to be worth a team slot, in my opinion. Weakness to Xerneas doesn’t help, also easily dies to Kyogre.

Solgaleo : C -> A/A-
I’m surprised Solgaleo is ranked so low here when Necrozma-Dusk-Mane is ranked so high. They fill the same role whilst Solgaleo is immune to Intimidate from oposing Incineroars. It can also run Flare Blitz which Necrozma-Dusk-Mane can’t which is very useful for destroying Ferrothorn or oposing Solgaleos/Necrozma-Dusk-Manes. I believe Solgaleo should be ranked at A, right against Necrozma-Dusk-Mane as I believe the pros and cons of each Pokemon need to be evaluated against each other; I don’t think Necrozma-Dusk-Mane is the clearly superior choice. Even if you do think that Necrozma-Dusk-Mane is clearly superior, is it really A vs C superior? Given that, I’d also support moving Solgaleo to A- rather than directly to A.

That’s about all I have to add for now. I’ll be back in a few days to see how things develop!
 

Darkmalice

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Thoughts on Solgaleoo -> B?

On first glance it seems like a worse version of Dusk Mane Necrozma, but Solgaleo's got a couple of options that make better in some circumstances. Solgaleo's speed tier allows it to outrun the base 90-95 speed tier which contains a decent chunk of the restricted legendaries. Solgaleo also has access to Flare Blitz, meaning it's not stopped cold by other relevant steel-types in the tier. I wouldn't call it a top tier threat, but I'd say C is a little low considering the other pokes that are sitting in that tier.
Having used Solgaleo, I'm agree with B.

Solgaeo is generally a better Xern check than Necrozma-DM, particularly when Adamant.

252+ Atk Solgaleo Sunsteel Strike vs. 4 HP / 4 Def Xerneas: 204-240 (100.9 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Or alternatively use Jolly with a Steel Plate or LO. Unlike Necrozma-DM, that OHKO is maintained when Intimidated. The greater Speed also means you outspeed Smeargle (Necrozma-DM needs Jolly, which I feel is not a good idea), and you have Wide Guard for Dazzling Gleam (along for stopping many other useful moves like Water Spout / Origin Pulse).

Their bulk is also comparable save for super-effective attacks, and Flare Blitz can be very helpful for checking Steel-types in particular Ferrothorn and Kartana.

Solgaleo does have flaws compared to Necrozma-DM. It gets OHKOed by some super-effective hits that Necrozma-DM doesn't, the worse being Yveltal's Foul Play (being outspeed and OHKOed by a very common and strong Pokemon is far from ideal). N-DM has strong power with Photon Geyser on its second STAB (for comparison, Jolly Solgaleo's Zen Headbutt does equivalent damage to a -1 Adamant Necromza-DM's Photo Geyser), and Solgaleo's damage output can be underwhelming when Sunsteel Strike is resisted and you're not hitting super-effectively with your other attacks, such as against Kyogre. Also Necrozma-DM is a scary Pokemon under TR and can, on certain teams, use SD effectively.

For the point about Flare Blitz, it's overall less reliable than Incineroar for dealing with those Steel-types (it always misses the OHKOes in rain, but Incineroar has a better chance depending on the spreads + Intimidate and FO to break Kartana Sash).

I'm still leaning towards B since there are many situations when Solgaleo is better than Necrozma-DM, even with Necrozma-DM generally being better, as opposed to the other C rank Ubers who either have more limited uses compared to other Ubers (e.g. Necrozma-DW to Lunala, Reshiram to Kyurem-White), or who are harder to use effectively (Zygarde, Zekrom). I disagree with A for the time-being simply cause Necrozma-DM is generally better even considering Solgaelo's niches.
 

Cresselia~~

Junichi Masuda likes this!!
Still trying to push Jynx from UR to D.

Jynx actually has Helping Hand (which I didn't realize until today), I think this changes quite a lot.
Fake Out,
Skill Swap,
Trick Room,
STAB Ice Beam,
STAB psychic/ psyshock.
Grass Knot
Ally Switch

Dry Skin = immune to water (actually heals in water moves and rain)
Resists psychic moves
 
Disagree. Although i feel that tsareena is a good mon overall, it only fits specific archetypes and in general is very niche. It is outclassed by both Ferrothorn and Kartana defensively. Its typing also means that it is unable to take on Xerneas, which both Ferrothorn and Kartana are able to handle pretty well. Its middling speed also means that it will have to eat hits before being able to deal damage, which hurts its longevity especially for non av variants. As such i feel that it should stay in C and at most rise up to B
First of all, Tsareena isn't outclassed by anything because it's the only mon that can do its role. If you're using Tsareena you aren't using it to beat Xerneas with it, you just click HH and Water Spout and kill the Xerneas. We shouldn't compare Tsareena with Ferrothorn or Kartana because they're completely different mons, they only have in common a grass-type. Would you compare Torterra with Kartana??

Another mon that should be ranked imo is Toxicroak. It has access to Fake Out and Dry Skin, deals a lot of damage to Kyogre with Low Kick and to Xerneas with Gunk Shot/Poison Jab. It's almost the perfect check to Kyogre Xerneas teams, especially the ones with Tsareena. It's also a good Kyogre partner because it heals from rain and can keep its Sash intact with recovery. It can deal with Ferrothorn which is perfect for Kyogre. Toxicroak is really common on 1450-1550, got 1st on the ladder yesterday and it's a good tech for some matchups, a good mon to keep the eye on.
 
Another mon that should be ranked imo is Toxicroak. It has access to Fake Out and Dry Skin, deals a lot of damage to Kyogre with Low Kick and to Xerneas with Gunk Shot/Poison Jab. It's almost the perfect check to Kyogre Xerneas teams, especially the ones with Tsareena. It's also a good Kyogre partner because it heals from rain and can keep its Sash intact with recovery. It can deal with Ferrothorn which is perfect for Kyogre. Toxicroak is really common on 1450-1550, got 1st on the ladder yesterday and it's a good tech for some matchups, a good mon to keep the eye on.
It is especially fun against rain cores that rely on Ludicolo for momentum and gets a bunch of potentially useful tech moves like Super Fang, Feint, Quick Guard, Helping Hand, Taunt, Bulldoze or even Icy Wind (lol) besides the obvious Fake Out.

This definitely deserves to be ranked.
 
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Cresselia~~

Junichi Masuda likes this!!
First of all, Tsareena isn't outclassed by anything because it's the only mon that can do its role. If you're using Tsareena you aren't using it to beat Xerneas with it, you just click HH and Water Spout and kill the Xerneas. We shouldn't compare Tsareena with Ferrothorn or Kartana because they're completely different mons, they only have in common a grass-type. Would you compare Torterra with Kartana??

Another mon that should be ranked imo is Toxicroak. It has access to Fake Out and Dry Skin, deals a lot of damage to Kyogre with Low Kick and to Xerneas with Gunk Shot/Poison Jab. It's almost the perfect check to Kyogre Xerneas teams, especially the ones with Tsareena. It's also a good Kyogre partner because it heals from rain and can keep its Sash intact with recovery. It can deal with Ferrothorn which is perfect for Kyogre. Toxicroak is really common on 1450-1550, got 1st on the ladder yesterday and it's a good tech for some matchups, a good mon to keep the eye on.
It makes me sound like I hate Tsareena, which I don't, but how does Tsareena lead compare with Ludicolo lead?
 
Gastrodon: C---->C+/B
Let's be real, folks. Gastrodon messes with this meta hard and is getting slept on. Clear smog scares Xern, and Gastro basically bodies kyogre, as well as kitty. This man give duskmane trouble with EP, and can burn hitmontop with scald. doesn't really run into issues with groudon, either. However, it struggles with basically every grass type such as Amoongus but can get by, because most amoongus don't run grass moves anyways, opting on a clear smog of their own. Ferrothorn and ludicolo still gives this boy trouble, as well as kart.

Honestly, though, I haven't tested it yet, but it looks damn good on paper, maybe someone can EV it and let it live some stuff while holding that grass berry.
 
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Netherious

some call me papa neth
is a Community Leader
VGC Leader
Tsareena -> B+

Tsareena is a force to be reckoned with 100%; it pairs extremely well with Kyogre and the couple can outright 4-0 teams that are not prepared. Although it has only a few moves it's all it needs:
-Feint breaks Wide Guard and Protect, not allowing defensive counterplay
-Helping Hand can help guarantee KOs on bulkier mons like Xerneas and Yveltal; also its use isn't limited to being next to Kyogre, any other mon can benefit from it
-Power Whip is Tsareena main offensive move, with STAB it 100% KOs scarfogre, has high chances to take down even bulky Kyogre and Ludicolo, the KO is guaranteed on those if you run Life Orb
-High Jump Kick is a powerful coverage move mainly for Ferrothorn but it does its job of KOing it after Water Spout, Life Orb Tsareena picks up weakened Ferrothorn even at -1
-Fling is rarely seen but with King's Rock it can delay bulky mons from moving and stops opposing Trick Room at least for one turn
It's ability protects Kyogre from priorities which are one of its main fear and works directly on the switch in.

252+ Atk Tsareena Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kyogre: 234-276 (132.9 - 156.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Tsareena Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 160-188 (109.5 - 128.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Tsareena Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Ludicolo: 185-218 (118.5 - 139.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Tsareena Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 100 Def Kyogre: 273-322 (131.8 - 155.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Ferrothorn in Rain: 74-87 (40.8 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Tsareena High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 124-146 (68.5 - 80.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Tsareena High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 107-127 (59.1 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

also, it's an onion
Thoughts on Solgaleo -> B+

On first glance it seems like a worse version of Dusk Mane Necrozma, but Solgaleo's got a couple of options that make better in some circumstances. Solgaleo's speed tier allows it to outrun the base 90-95 speed tier which contains a decent chunk of the restricted legendaries. Solgaleo also has access to Flare Blitz, meaning it's not stopped cold by other relevant steel-types in the tier. I wouldn't call it a top tier threat, but I'd say C is a little low considering the other pokes that are sitting in that tier.
I all, some good discussion so far. Here are my proposed changes:

Hitmontop : A -> B+
I don’t think Hitmontop does enough in the current metagame and it has so far failed to impress me. I feel that Incineroar is a superior Intimidate/Fake Out user, and Ludicolo is also a better fake out user when rain is in play. Wide guard is, of course, the big drawing card for Hitmontop. The best usage I’ve seen so far is as a soft check to Kyogre, but I think there are better Kyogre checks in the metagame at the moment and that Hitmontop shouldn’t be listed alongside them in the A category.

Ludicolo : B -> B+
Ludicolo has really impressed me, both as an excellent partner to Kyogre and as a Kyogre check. I’m finding that I’m commonly leading Ludicolo/Tapu Koko against rain teams and it has been serving me well. Fake out is probably better this season than it has been previously, at least so far, and Ludicolo gets it’s off first in the rain. A Kyogre/Ludicolo lead can be devistating if your oponent’s leads aren’t prepared. Mega drain also does ~50% on a standard Kyogre build, with Ice Beam doing less to Ludicolo. Scald puts in good work against Incineroar. Overall I think Ludicolo would be an A if not from requiring that it is run alongside Kyogre. B+ seems appropriate given the power but the heavy restriction it places on teambuilding.

Mewtwo : B -> C+
I’m yet to be scared by Mewtwo, even when in psychic terrain. It gets OHKO’d by Kyogre, and is checked by the common dark types being run in the meta currently (Incineroar + Yveltal). I do believe that Mewtwo will get better rather than worse as the meta matures, but currently it doesn’t have a good niche to slot in to.

Porygon2 : B -> C
I don’t have an opinion here, just a question. I haven’t seen Porygon2 once yet. Is it really B-level powerful?

Tapu Fini : B -> B-
Whilst powerful, it is not only outclassed when teambuildling by Kyogre, it is also the worst Tapu choice for the current meta given the threats that need answering. There is very little reason to have Tapu FIni on your team, unless you intend it to be your only check to Incineroar. I don’t think it is C-level bad, as it is clearly a powerful Pokemon; it is, however, clearly the weakest Tapu currently and I believe this should be reflected in its ranking.

Abomasnow : C -> B-
As others have said, I think a lot of people are sleeping on Abomasnow. See others’ explanations. I have little else to add here.

Salamence : C -> UR
No reason to run Salamence in this meta. It is not powerful enough on its own without being able to mega-evolve to be worth a team slot, in my opinion. Weakness to Xerneas doesn’t help, also easily dies to Kyogre.

Solgaleo : C -> B+
I’m surprised Solgaleo is ranked so low here when Necrozma-Dusk-Mane is ranked so high. They fill the same role whilst Solgaleo is immune to Intimidate from oposing Incineroars. It can also run Flare Blitz which Necrozma-Dusk-Mane can’t which is very useful for destroying Ferrothorn or oposing Solgaleos/Necrozma-Dusk-Manes. I believe Solgaleo should be ranked at A, right against Necrozma-Dusk-Mane as I believe the pros and cons of each Pokemon need to be evaluated against each other; I don’t think Necrozma-Dusk-Mane is the clearly superior choice. Even if you do think that Necrozma-Dusk-Mane is clearly superior, is it really A vs C superior? Given that, I’d also support moving Solgaleo to A- rather than directly to A.

That’s about all I have to add for now. I’ll be back in a few days to see how things develop!
Those are the first changes. Here's some more:

Venusaur C- > D
Tornadus C -> C-
Thundurus-T C -> Unranked
Scrafty C -> C-
Rayquaza C -> C-
Rotom-W C -> C-
Palkia C -> B
Oranguru C -> C+
Necrozma-Dawn Wings C -> C+
Heatran C - > C-
Giratina-O C- > C+
Gastrodon
C - > C+
Crobat C- > B-


Zapdos B -> C+
Snorlax B -> C+
Landorus-T B -> B-
Lugia B -> B-
Gothitelle B -> B-
Clefairy B -> B-
Araquanid B -> B+
Celesteela B -> B+


Yveltal A -> A-
Tapu Koko A -> A-
Lunala A -> A-
Groudon A -> B+

Cresselia A -> A-


The +/- split returns in full effect! These changes were made based on usage and early metagame performance. Let me know if something seems off but I think we are getting close to actuality. Thanks all for your support!

-Neth
 
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I'm actually quite surprised to see Ho-Oh ranked so highly by others. I know I've talked it up after playing with it for I don't know how many games but I'm glad to see other players catching onto it as well. A tier is definitely deserved IMO with my only complaint being 4 move slot syndrome.
 
Thanks for the ongoing updates Neth. List is starting to look very close, in my opinion.

After trying out a few more combinations, I would like to join the other two above in proposing:

Toxicroak : UR -> ?C (I think it may even deserve to be higher, but we will wait and see)
For reference, this is the set I'm currently running:
Code:
Toxicroak @ Focus Sash 
Ability: Dry Skin 
Level: 50 
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD 
Adamant Nature 
- Fake Out 
- Low Kick 
- Poison Jab 
- Feint
Beats Kyogre + Ludicolo easily and is good against Xerneas, as already mentioned. Fantastic both on and against Kyogre teams, which makes it easy to slot into virtually any team. Fake out is very strong, as previously mentioned. The biggest problem with Toxicraok is it's inability to 2HKO Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, with either Low Kick or Foul Play. It get's close, though, so some help from an Incineroar or a Ho-Oh makes quick work of the Necrozma. For what it's worth, after preaching how good Ludicolo is for the past couple of days, I've now replaced Ludicolo with Toxicroak in my team. The big downsides are it actually OHKOs very little, almost always requiring extra damage from another source, and it is very weak to the occasional Landorus-T you might run in to.

I guess this brings me to the second point I wanted to make. It seems like there are a lot of highly-used Pokemon abusing the fact that Landorus-T, and Earthquake users in general, are absent in the meta. If something pushes Kyogre down so that it isn't used quite as much as it is currently, there may come a pivot time during the season where Landorus-T can make a surprise return and wreak havoc. Don't sleep on it.
 
With regards to Ludicolo, what are the preferred STAB moves of choice between Scald/Hydro Pump and Giga Drain/Energy Ball?

I second the suggestion of Parasect as rain team support. It’s extremely hard to take it down in rain without at least something getting put to sleep. Lots of fun to have a partner with Surf to trigger dry skin. And there’s basically no Flying attacks in the meta to threaten a OHKO.

I’m keen to try out Tsareena and Toxicroak now. This thread is great reading! So many ideas
 
With regards to Ludicolo, what are the preferred STAB moves of choice between Scald/Hydro Pump and Giga Drain/Energy Ball?

I second the suggestion of Parasect as rain team support. It’s extremely hard to take it down in rain without at least something getting put to sleep. Lots of fun to have a partner with Surf to trigger dry skin. And there’s basically no Flying attacks in the meta to threaten a OHKO.

I’m keen to try out Tsareena and Toxicroak now. This thread is great reading! So many ideas
Hydro Pump and Grass Knot definitely. Grass Knot has 120 BP against Groudon, Kyogre, Snorlax, Stakataka, Xerneas, Zygarde, as well as 100 against Mewtwo.
 
Suicune UR -> C
I personally don't understand how this mon could move all the way down to UR, its most avid user MisterGX has been consistently on top of the ladder, it's one of the best tailwind setters in the format right now- and has access to Snarl and Roar both of which are very helpful in the current metagame, which is primarily based around special attackers, and being able to Roar out a Xerneas or a TR user is always nice. Even with all the grass types present in the metagame right now it's one of the few tailwind users that can set up a tailwind on a Kyogre without being KOed. I could honestly see this mon being moved up to b-, but I'll abstain on that til we get more into the format.
 

Netherious

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Suicune UR -> C
I personally don't understand how this mon could move all the way down to UR, its most avid user MisterGX has been consistently on top of the ladder, it's one of the best tailwind setters in the format right now- and has access to Snarl and Roar both of which are very helpful in the current metagame, which is primarily based around special attackers, and being able to Roar out a Xerneas or a TR user is always nice. Even with all the grass types present in the metagame right now it's one of the few tailwind users that can set up a tailwind on a Kyogre without being KOed. I could honestly see this mon being moved up to b-, but I'll abstain on that til we get more into the format.
This was probably more of an oversight on my part; I'll add it back to C for now. Good catch.

EDIT:

Toxicroak UR -> C
 
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Netherious

some call me papa neth
is a Community Leader
VGC Leader
I think xerneas, kyogre, and incineroar should be in S rank, they have been the best mons since vgc19 came on showdown.
It hasn't even been a week. It's going to take at least a regional or 2 to convince me that they are all 3 S tier. As of now I see 3 very reliable high-A mons but as of right now I'm not seeing a dominating force like how Landorus-T and Incineroar were last year. Even so, I still think Landorus-T was the GOAT of 2018. There will always be one but this year will be different. There's a better balance this year, already.
 
A few thoughts:

Araquanid: agree with what's been said and its high ranking. It's amazing in Rain and Trick Room. Can 2HKO Kyogre with Liquidation. Handy Wide Guard support.

Escavalier Unranked -> C
With Trick Room support and a Life Orb, this thing is an absolute menace. Iron Head OHKOs Xerneas, and Megahorn puts a hole in most things and straight up OHKOs Cresselia. It can even beat Kyogre one on one under Trick Room. A great typing for Rain teams and it only really fears Fire types like Incineroar, which it has Drill Run to help deal with in an emergency. It's even immune to Spore and Rage Powder.

Charjabug Unranked -> D?
Battery boosts its Ally's special attack by 30%, and this is a big deal. That is the difference between Mewtwo OHKO'ing a standard Scarf Kyogre with Psystrike or not. Equipped with an Eviolite, Charjabug can tank a hit and spam Electroweb or String Shot, providing crucial speed control AND an inbuilt Helping Hand boost. Done some testing and it works well with Special Attackers like Kyurem-W, Kyogre, Mewtwo, Tapu Lele and Xerneas. The plan falls apart when your opponent springs Trick Room on you, but you can prepare for that scenario.

Tsareena: her crucial Power Whip misses are a thing, so I've been testing Wide Lens to some success (gives 93.5% accuracy), as her item isn't crucial. She's there for her ability and for supporting Water Spout with HH/Feint anyway, so why not tighten the grip on her whip?

Crobat B -> C-
Now I love Crobat, I really do. And I realise that it's being used by people and has a B- ranking... BUT... I don't understand why. It can set up Tailwind, and that's about it. It doesn't have the defensive or offensive presence to be able to accomplish anything else, failing to KO anything or survive any big attacks. And as for Tailwind support, Drifblim and Whimiscott are more reliable, and Lunala, Lugia and Ho-Oh are all better choices. Even Kartana and Aerodactyl are better. And there are better Taunt users. So what am I missing here???

And finally, A FUN FACT for you all!
Ludicolo, Xerneas, Mewtwo, Venusaur, Tapu Lele and Abomasnow all threaten to OHKO Kyogre with Grass Knot (120BP). But if you want to troll your opponent, equip Kyogre with a Float Stone and all of those Pokemon FAIL to OHKO with Grass Knot (now 100BP), unless Xerneas has +2 Geomancy'd of course. Pointless fact, and Rindo Berry is a far superior and less situational item, but I was really bored at work and decided to do the calculations to pass the time. Yes I was that bored. Float on, Kyogre!
 

Vinc2612

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Crobat B -> C-
Now I love Crobat, I really do. And I realise that it's being used by people and has a B- ranking... BUT... I don't understand why. It can set up Tailwind, and that's about it. It doesn't have the defensive or offensive presence to be able to accomplish anything else, failing to KO anything or survive any big attacks. And as for Tailwind support, Drifblim and Whimiscott are more reliable, and Lunala, Lugia and Ho-Oh are all better choices. Even Kartana and Aerodactyl are better. And there are better Taunt users. So what am I missing here???
Fake out immunity + haze with the fairy resistance and 130 base speed makes it one of the most reliable Xern check
 

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