Victim of the Week v2, Kyurem

[HUARGH]

Terrakion is in my opinion actually underrated; I would personally like to see it moved to ubers and think it eventually will. Despite that, hard priority can mess up sub/salac swords dance sets pretty hard and landorus-t can come in on close combats, intimidating and threatening the OHKO.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

~ Reflect
~ Thunder Wave
~ Psychic
~ Moonlight / Rest
One of the best terrakion counters out there. The best terrakion can do to her is a choice banded x-scissor but:

252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 166-196 (37.38 - 44.14%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Meaning you can easily switch in, paralyse it and recover your health. Repeated psychics will eventually bring it down. I chose cresselia because how well it works on sun teams which have a huge problem with terrakion. Overall a very solid counter able to deal with all variants of terrakion.

 

[dcae]

There are a few mons that counter Terrakion well. Generally, I think of these in two categories: those who counter any variant and those who counter everything but Choice Band.

• Obviously Landorus T and Gliscor are the two best counters in OU to any variant of Terrakion, with the former using great bulk and Intimidate to soften the blows and then KO it with Earthquake. The latter has the same typing and can actually, through use of a SubProtect set, PP stall Stone Edge, while also having massive bulk to take on the Stone Edge hits. It can also OHKO with Earthquake.

• Celebi is a rather underrated counter to Terrakion. The physically defensive set can actually cover any variant lacking X-Scissor, and OHKO with Giga Drain or Psychic. It is a bit more shaky than the previous two because the moveset must be scouted beforehand, although X-Scissor is generally a rare move run only on Scarf Terrakion nowadays.

• In the lower tiers, a few Pokémon that do well are obviously the aforementioned Cresselia, Claydol, the Nidos, and Golurk. Cresselia is so incredibly bulky it doesn't care about the majority of Terrakion's attacks, and can take it out with Psychic. However, most variants run Ice Beam, which renders Cresselia decently prone to CB Terrakion and especially SubSalac, which can boost up on it.

• Claydol is resistant to both STAB moves of Terrakion, but gets nailed by X-Scissor once again. It is also well under par in OU due to lack of reliable recovery and a general lack of offensive presence. It can, however, take down Claydol with either Earth Power or Psychic.

• The Nidos are grouped together, due to shared typing, but it is really Nidoqueen that can counter, as Nidoking is often to frail to function more than as a good check. The Nidos boast resistance to both of Terrakion's STABs, but are both nailed by Earthquake as a coverage move. That being said, both are decent options to use due to some use in OU, thanks to Sheer Force.

• Golurk is quite possibly the best Terrakion counter in the lower tiers. Massive bulk permits it to survive coverage moves, and it is immune to Close Combat while being resistant to Stone Edge. It can thus easily absorb Terrakion's STAB moves. It is also resistant to X-Scissor, a common weakness plaguing other Terrakion counters, and can take Earthquake if it is carried. It is not that great of a choice in OU otherwise, however, due to disappointing speed, and weakness to the omnipresent Water moves. It can function as an SR setter however.

Overall, we can gather that Terrakion is a tough Pokémon to counter, having limited mons in OU that can take it. Mons in lower tiers can counter it also, but they are generally not very good in other departments. It is a mon that has had a huge impact on OU since it was released in BW, and for that reason is always a threat to keep in mind. However, one must realize that it can also be checked, mostly through the use of priority (e.g. Bullet Punch from Scizor, or Mach Punch from Breloom), and can also be checked through bulky waters (e.g. Tentacruel, Jellicent, even physically defensive Politoed).

 

[Prinz]

i'd add slowbro at your list, dcae. it resists to close combat and it can tank even the stone edges from choice band terrakion thanks to its titanic physical defense and use psychic, thunder wave or scald back. it only fears a bit x-scissor from choice band variants but it can recover itself when it wants switching out with regenerator, and slack off allows to recover its hp when it doesn't want to switch. definitely a good terrakion counter. good job anyways, your post is really good imo.

 

[ganj4lF]

Celebi doesn't work against Terrakion, at least not against every set. If Terrakion does carry X-Scissor, well, problem solved. If Terrakion doesn't carry it (and it's not the lead set, which I assume can be considered countered by Celebi), Celebi needs to look out for SD or CB Stone Edge, since:

252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Celebi: 177-208 (43.81 - 51.48%) -- 72.66% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Celebi: 304-359 (75.24 - 88.86%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Rock Gem Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Celebi: 351-414 (86.88 - 102.47%) -- 93.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

So by switching Celebi into Terrakion you either have your Celebi perfectly healthy or you're banking on the fact they are a lead set / don't carry a boosting item / mispredict and go for the CC. This looks like a check at best to me, not really a counter. Not to even mention that running 252+ Def means Keldeo's Expert Belt HP Ice is going to 2HKO after SR, so running Celebi to counter Terrakion has a huge opportunity cost and still doesn't do particularly well its job.

 

[vyomov]

Gallade actually can counter Keldeo AS well as Terrakion, so I see no reason why it isn't used much.

 

[Box]

Any team having trouble with Terrakion would do well to include a Focus Sash Dugtrio in it's lineup.

Lead Terrakion is completely beaten my Dugtrio, being OHKO'd by Dugtrio's Reversal if it opts to CC and 2HKO'd by Earthquake, even with a Jolly nature. At the end of the day, the result a dead quadpedal, a 1HP Dugtrio and either a) Rocks on both sides or b) Rocks on neither side. In fact, if Dug doesn't want to set up hazards, it survives with a Focus Sash intact, ready to hit most switch-ins decently hard or guarantee a Stealth Rocks setup next turn. Dugtrio in turn can proceed to hit something for reasonable damage if rocks are up, or switch out to trap something like un-scarfed/Balloon'd Heatran later on if rocks are not present.

Arena Trap also allows Dugtrio to shut down any Terrakion attempting a sweep lacking Quick Attack, most notably the fearsome Choice and Double Dance variants (but requires Reversal AND Sucker Punch to do so, given Sucker Punch's low power).

 

[victinivcreate1]

Gallade actually can counter Keldeo AS well as Terrakion, so I see no reason why it isn't used much.

because Gallade has HORRIFYING physical defense and HP. Moreso, it has a bad case of 4MSS. Its also pretty slow, and Keldeo is going to blast through it. Gallade is a shaky check.


Anyway

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Careful
Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD
-Roost
-Spikes
-Brave Bird
-Stealth Rock
This thing is the bane of most physical attackers

252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 166-196 (49.7 - 58.68%) -- 71.09% chance to 2HKO

A shaky check at best, but its still decent.

 

[MatchMaster]

As strange as it sounds, Golurk is probably THE best Terrkion counter, as it only fears a +2 Stone Edge or (rare) Earthquake.


Golurk @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Atk / 176 Def
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Punch
- Ice Punch

Earthquake is the main move, OHKOing Terrakion in return, Stealth Rock is there to take advantage of the bulk Golurk has. Fire Punch is for Scizor, as it is sometimes paired with Terrakion to deal with its revenge killers. It is also its best option against Ferrothorn. Ice Punch is mainly for Dragons.

 

[ShadowMarioGalaxy64]

Surprisingly, Forretress has taken Terrakion out before. Thanks to Leftovers and impressive Physical Defense, Forretress is mostly 3HKO'd by the Choice Band Set, while Forretress can 2HKO a Non-Speed-Boosted Terrakion (and OHKOing any faster variants). Forretress is probably one of the best answers to Terrakion regardless, actually taking it out, but being weakened in the process. SubDance Terrakion isn't a great idea, as Terrakion's Substitute will be broken and it can't get a Swords Dance set that easily. Forretress can also take out the Stealth Rock set thanks to Gyro Ball and Rapid Spin. Overall, I find Forretress to be a solid choice against Terrakion, especially as a Revenge Killer.

 

[Prinz]

well, we have discussed enough about terrakion's counters. mons like landorus-t, gliscor, slowbro are the best answers to terrakion right now and even underrated mons like nidos, golurk and claydol can do a good job. i'll close the discuss about terrakion in about 10 hours so, if you have something post, do it now, thanks.

 

[Soul Fly]

Well Golurk is a near 100% Terrak counter. Too bad it's shit in OU for anything else. Like literally. And no, No Guard Golurk is horrible, gets shat upon by half of OU.

 

[vyomov]

Not exactly - even if anything else switches in, they're going to be confused, so Golurk can run some hax.

 

[Prinz]

So, the next Victim is...​

Keldeo​

91 Hp / 72 Atk / 90 Def / 129 Satk / 90 Spd / 108 Spe
Ability: Justified​

Without a single doubt, Keldeo is one of the most threatening mon right now. With its statistics of Spe and SAtk, with its STAB moves such as Hydro Pump, Surf and Secret Sword and with a item like Choice Scarf, Choice Specs and Life Orb, Keldeo can smash entire teams. Unfortunately, it hasn't a very big moverpool so it has many checks and counters, while it remains a big threat for every team. How do you deal with Keldeo?​

 

[Gary]

Amoonguss @ Black Sludge
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 228 SDef / 28 SAtk
Calm Nature
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Stun Spore

Easily one of my favorite counters to Keldeo, ever. Unlike Jellicent, Amoonguss can actually threaten Keldeo with Stun Spore, Spore, and even Giga Drain. It's great typing allows it to resist not only Hydro Pump and Surf, but also Secret Sword as well, making it a very reliable switch-in to any of Keldeo's moves (Icy Wind does less then Hydro Pump in the rain). This is how much Choice Specs Keldeo does with Hydro Pump in the rain to Amoonguss:

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 228+ SpD Amoonguss in rain: 186-219 (43.05 - 50.69%) -- 58.98% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Although Amoonguss can't avoid the 2HKO 100%, after Black Sludge, Amoonguss can still tank at least another Hydro Pump, and threaten to smack it in the face with a Spore or Stun Spore, potentially crippling Keldeo for the rest of the match. If Keldeo decides to switch out after the first Hydro Pump, Amoonguss can take the opportunity to switch out as well, giving it almost more then a quarter of its health back. With 28 SpA EVs, Amoonguss can still break Keldeo's Substitutes at +2 SpD with Giga Drain. This makes Amoonguss a very reliable and sturdy counter/check to pretty much every Keldeo set out there, and if your team is lacking a reliable switch-in to Keldeo, Amoonguss is one of the best Pokemon out there for the job.

 

[Dr Ciel]

Slowking @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Dragon Tail
- Slack Off

Despite it's lower tier status, Slowking can completely counter Keldeo with it's amazing bulk, it's ability to switch into literally any of it's attacks & that amazing Regenerator Ability. Psyshock is a very reliable move for Slowking to use to punish Keldeo, & Dragon Tail can phaze away all those hard earned boosts, should Keldeo not run Substitute. Now, just a few calcs to see how much he walls Keldeo.

Calcs

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 56+ SpD Slowking in rain: 174-205 (44.16 - 52.03%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Slowking: 99-117 (25.12 - 29.69%) -- possible 4HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 56+ SpD Slowking: 36-42 (9.13 - 10.65%) -- 9HKO at best

Now here's Slowking against Keldeo, using it's main STAB, Psyshock.

Calc

0 SpA Slowking Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 188-224 (58.2 - 69.34%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Lohgock]

Latias (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 216 HP / 52 Def / 240 Spd
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Pulse
- Recover
- Substitute / Reflect / whatever

Latias is probably one of the best Keldeo-counters out there. While stuff like Jellicent fears Calm Mind-versions and Celebi HP Bug ones, none of Keldeos moves is able to break through Latias, even a super effective Hidden Power from Specs Keldeo does not 2HKO. Latias also doesn't have to worry about too much hazards limiting her switches as she's not affected by either Spikes or TSpikes. Any damage taken is easily recovered by Recover, so she only fears a combination of Keldeo + a Pursuit-trapper (most likely Tyranitar or Scizor). There is no 100% effective way to bypass this problem, but Substitute or Reflect (actually Reflect Type would work best here but is shit otherwise) are decent ways not to get too much damage from any of their attacks.

The split allows Latias to always outspeed non-Scarf Keldeo while having a lot of bulk. If you're too afraid of CM Keldeo, Psyshock works fine in the last slot but makes her a lot weaker to Tyranitar and Scizor.

 

[alexwolf]

Dr Ciel i prefer Thunder Wave over Dragon Tail, as well as max SpD to handle Keldeo and Latios even better. Thunder Wave is much better against most special attackers and lets you handle Specs Keldeo in rain much better, as instead of trying to pp stall Hydro Pump with Slack Off and risking to get critted you can just paralyze Keldeo and be done with it.

Slowking is the single best Keldeo counter out there and a very good special wall for offensive teams, it's a shame that it is so Pursuit weak.

 

[Soul Fly]

@ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 SpD
Calm Nature
-Scald
-Recover
-Toxic/Will-o-Wisp
-Shadow Ball

This pokemon just cockblocks all standard keldeo sets. Immune to both of its STABs and resists it's 2 most common coverage moves. HP ice/Ice Wind and HP bug. I've never had a better pokemon to check Keldeo. Between Toxic/WoW and Shadow ball, it punishes keldeo for every time it locks itself into one of it's STAB/coverage moves.

HP ghost is the only thing keldeo can run hoping to at least do some respectable damage to it.
But that fucks over common and well accepted best "Keldeo counters" like Slowking which imho is rather situational as it gets 2HKOed after rocks and a chance 2HKO even without rocks.

Okay lets just assume the worst case scenario.


Scarf Set
252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Ghost vs. 252 HP / 220+ SpD Jellicent: 110-130 (27.22 - 32.17%) -- possible 4HKO

Specs/Expert Belt
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hidden Power Ghost vs. 252 HP / 220+ SpD Jellicent: 164-194 (40.59 - 48.01%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Calm Mind Set
(assuming you're a pretty shitty player and let something like Keldeo even get to +2/+2)

+2 252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Ghost vs. 252 HP / 220+ SpD Jellicent: 216-256 (53.46 - 63.36%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
STILL not an OHKO, enough to break sub/toxic and revengekill. But IMHO you shouldn't let keldeo get more than +1 anyways.

 

[sanches br]

Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Trait: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Relaxed Nature
- Scald/Ice Beam
- Earthquake
- Recover
- Toxic

Gastrodon is one of the few pokemons that not only can wall keldeo, but also fears nothing from most of it's partners. If you have a problem with hyper-offense rain teams with those annoying cm jirachi, or with ttar/keldeo cores gastro is the way to go. Taking only 6% from stealth rocks and not receiving residual damage from ss are perks that make gastro dwell perfectly in any weather. Also if gastro manages to get that 1+ from keldeo hpump, gastro goes from wall to an bulky offensive monster that will burn the entire enemy team. Forcing keldeo to secret sword every time (which does barely 34% from the scarf sets) also makes prediction much easier and avoids that keldeo start killing everything lategame with rain-boosted hpumps.

 

[vyomov]

This is a good way to beat:
Latios@Life Orb
Ability: Levitate

EVs: 252 Spe/252 SpA/4 SpD
Nature: Timid
- Psyshock
- Dragon Pulse
- Calm Mind
- Surf

Since Keldeo's most used in rain, this set aims at taking advantage of that. Keldeo cannot stay in because of risk to OHKO and must switch out, which allows Latios to CM, becoming a beast in rain thanks to that.

 

[Prinz]

slowking, jellicent, cm latias and gastrodon are all great counter for keldeo. i'm a bit perplexed about gastrodon because it gets big damages from sacret sword but with a little prediction it would work fine. otherwise i'd call latios check, not counter. he isn't as bulk as latias and icy wind just 2hko it for example and hydro pump in rain hits too hard. and if you don't run recover (as vyomov does) it's even worse.

 

[DarkBlazeR]

Starmie makes for a solid check to Keldeo. I say check because it gets 2HKOd by Specs Hydro Pump, and Psyshock won't OHKO without an item boost, but it's still a check nonetheless.Tentacruel is in a similar boat - it does well against the Scarf and EBelt sets, but is shaky against the Specs set and outright loses to SubCM sets.

If we're talking purely offensive checks, then things like Alakazam/Scarf Latios generally do fine. There's also Celebi, which counters any Keldeo lacking HP [Bug].

Some Water resists that don't take too much from Secret Sword (e.g. Gyarados, Toxicroak, Vaporeon, Shaymin, Rotom-W etc) also perform decently as checks (especially the former two as they resist Fighting).

Keldeo tends be nerfed in sunlight - Venusaur and Cresselia are very good at dealing with it when under the influence of their preferred weather.

 

[Hot N Cold]

Mantine @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Scald
- Air Slash
- Protect / Rest
- Toxic / Sleep talk

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mantine: 93-110 (27.92 - 33.03%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

One of the best Keldeo counters out of Hidden Power Electric which is HKO after SR, wall pretty well the rest of Keldeo variants like Choice or Ebelt (no hp electric!). Toxic + Air Slash for Calm Mind Keldeo variants which are uncommon. Also, Mantine helps against other stuff like against Landorus Sheer Force or Scizor, very dedicated to check some threats imo

 

[vyomov]

What about RestTalk Milotic? Milotic can take hits from Keldeo all day, burn it and sleep talk to phaze it repeatedly until it dies.