The views from this post are based on just NJNP and not the entirety of the council.
Hey guys! This thread is being created so different Council Members can get out lengthy views and ask for community input without it getting clogged in metagame discussion. I want to discuss something very important to the continued growth of the tier so I will be leading this thread off.
Hi guys, we’re a couple of weeks now from SPL. I think we must focus on creating the best tier possible for not only tour players but also our fellow ladder players. As we’ve discussed since DLC 2 has dropped there are a lot of amazing Pokemon and only one that truly deserved a quick ban which we handled. We now have the issue of having too many threats in the tier and not a single stand out. We have some of the community that feels the tier is in a good place and we have some who view the tier to be a mess, a very interesting split. Most high-level players do view it as balance being the clear best play style with meow/kyurem balances mostly dominating high ladder. You’re very limited in creativity with all the current threats that you have to handle and in particular, you find yourself using copy-paste cores over and over just to complete a semi-successful 6. There are a lot of factors at play with this. I wanna get into this.
If you’re building an hyper offensive/offensive team you have to handle currently about 5 different types of leads, Deoxys-S Screens/Setter, Ninetales Veil, Sam-H Stack, Glimmora, & Webs (Ribombee, Araquanid, Smeargle). As things stand currently it’s practically impossible for a hyper-offensive team to properly handle all these variations while also having to counterattack the popular Gliscor/Skarmory hazard stack balances. Hyper Offense has to deal with familiar faces like Valiant, Moth, and Zamazenta. While having to handle Volcarona once again, Raging Bolt, Iron Boulder, and various new cheese-stored power sweepers in Latias and Iron Crown, while also still needing to break through unaware monsters in Clodsire, Skeledirge, and Dondozo. A thing that stands out to me in building hyper offense currently is the old friend Glimmora and its ability Toxic Debris. You’re left with as a ho user the option of using Glimmora yourself or Iron Moth which is generally sub-optimal. You’re at times left with this being your option as practically the best breakers and sweepers in the tier being mainly physical leads to toxic debris activating more than ever. Another thing that stands out to me is the immense amount of priority from Raging Bolt, Kingambit, Dragonite & more. It limits the attempts of sweepers from the most popular sweepers in the tier resulting in a tera being burned or relegating former powerful sweepers to breakers. The final thing that stands out is we have an immense amount of walls it's truly rather impractical to account for every single one when building an offensive team currently. Pokemon like Archaludon and Skarmory are fantastic new additions to the tier in being anti-offense while not being instantly passive. We still have to deal with familiar faces like the unaware monsters mentioned above along with the hazard stacking menaces in Gliscor and Ting Lu. It currently is a very mu-based time for hyper offense with so much to combat.
If you’re building a balance/semi-stall team, you have the best advantage in the team builder to abuse the best item in the tier Heavy Duty Boots. This coincides with the fact you're able to abuse some of the best Pokemon in the tier rather easily as well. Pokemon like Gliscor, Ting Lu, Toxapex, Skarmory, Skelidirge, Dondozo etc etc… allows this team popular structure to cover up the weaknesses of Meowscarda, Darkari, Kyurem, and Zamazenta very easily as they apply the offensive pressure in the tier currently for the structure. This is mostly known stuff so I won't get into this heavy but balance has few flaws and it just simply becomes a who can knock off quicker contest in decent amount of balance vs balance matches.
Personally, as the tier stands right now, it is not awful, but it’s not great either. I also do not believe a suspect test will aid it anytime soon or in enough time for SPL. In fact, regardless of SPL, I think we should consider going this path just for the overall betterment of the tier going forward with power creep being so immense and so many OU viable Pokemon at a crazy level. We should go this path as I feel it will give us the best chance to give an ideal OU metagame for the entire player base that has been plagued with an up-and-down vicious slate. The path I'm speaking of is the Kokoloko Method.
I know it is a controversial method and this tier has been full of controversy since the beginning but if we’re serious about the long-term growth of this tier and considering we have essentially 0 quick ban options to push tier development/growth our best way at going at this is in my opinion the Kokoloko method.
Now, as it stands
This list was a good likelihood of what will be included on the latest survey. The Pokemon on this list I want removed from this tier due to the Kokoloko Method. We can use this list as a starting point of what we enact into starting the Kokoloko Method and test them back down one by one.
Now I'm making this post as I want to inform the people on how I view the metagame and feel is the best path we can embark on to improve this tier. I know we things to consider in the future like Tera and our hazard problem. Dealing with the realities of many people being split on a lot of things concerning this tier I'm hoping we can come together on this manner regarding the tier and see to its continued growth.
Please ask as many questions as you want regarding this, give your own list of Pokemon you'd like removed due Kokoloko Method, and please let us have a lengthy discussion as I'm all for it, and let us continue making this tier great!
Kokoloko Path
Hey guys! This thread is being created so different Council Members can get out lengthy views and ask for community input without it getting clogged in metagame discussion. I want to discuss something very important to the continued growth of the tier so I will be leading this thread off.
Hi guys, we’re a couple of weeks now from SPL. I think we must focus on creating the best tier possible for not only tour players but also our fellow ladder players. As we’ve discussed since DLC 2 has dropped there are a lot of amazing Pokemon and only one that truly deserved a quick ban which we handled. We now have the issue of having too many threats in the tier and not a single stand out. We have some of the community that feels the tier is in a good place and we have some who view the tier to be a mess, a very interesting split. Most high-level players do view it as balance being the clear best play style with meow/kyurem balances mostly dominating high ladder. You’re very limited in creativity with all the current threats that you have to handle and in particular, you find yourself using copy-paste cores over and over just to complete a semi-successful 6. There are a lot of factors at play with this. I wanna get into this.
If you’re building an hyper offensive/offensive team you have to handle currently about 5 different types of leads, Deoxys-S Screens/Setter, Ninetales Veil, Sam-H Stack, Glimmora, & Webs (Ribombee, Araquanid, Smeargle). As things stand currently it’s practically impossible for a hyper-offensive team to properly handle all these variations while also having to counterattack the popular Gliscor/Skarmory hazard stack balances. Hyper Offense has to deal with familiar faces like Valiant, Moth, and Zamazenta. While having to handle Volcarona once again, Raging Bolt, Iron Boulder, and various new cheese-stored power sweepers in Latias and Iron Crown, while also still needing to break through unaware monsters in Clodsire, Skeledirge, and Dondozo. A thing that stands out to me in building hyper offense currently is the old friend Glimmora and its ability Toxic Debris. You’re left with as a ho user the option of using Glimmora yourself or Iron Moth which is generally sub-optimal. You’re at times left with this being your option as practically the best breakers and sweepers in the tier being mainly physical leads to toxic debris activating more than ever. Another thing that stands out to me is the immense amount of priority from Raging Bolt, Kingambit, Dragonite & more. It limits the attempts of sweepers from the most popular sweepers in the tier resulting in a tera being burned or relegating former powerful sweepers to breakers. The final thing that stands out is we have an immense amount of walls it's truly rather impractical to account for every single one when building an offensive team currently. Pokemon like Archaludon and Skarmory are fantastic new additions to the tier in being anti-offense while not being instantly passive. We still have to deal with familiar faces like the unaware monsters mentioned above along with the hazard stacking menaces in Gliscor and Ting Lu. It currently is a very mu-based time for hyper offense with so much to combat.
If you’re building a balance/semi-stall team, you have the best advantage in the team builder to abuse the best item in the tier Heavy Duty Boots. This coincides with the fact you're able to abuse some of the best Pokemon in the tier rather easily as well. Pokemon like Gliscor, Ting Lu, Toxapex, Skarmory, Skelidirge, Dondozo etc etc… allows this team popular structure to cover up the weaknesses of Meowscarda, Darkari, Kyurem, and Zamazenta very easily as they apply the offensive pressure in the tier currently for the structure. This is mostly known stuff so I won't get into this heavy but balance has few flaws and it just simply becomes a who can knock off quicker contest in decent amount of balance vs balance matches.
Personally, as the tier stands right now, it is not awful, but it’s not great either. I also do not believe a suspect test will aid it anytime soon or in enough time for SPL. In fact, regardless of SPL, I think we should consider going this path just for the overall betterment of the tier going forward with power creep being so immense and so many OU viable Pokemon at a crazy level. We should go this path as I feel it will give us the best chance to give an ideal OU metagame for the entire player base that has been plagued with an up-and-down vicious slate. The path I'm speaking of is the Kokoloko Method.
I know it is a controversial method and this tier has been full of controversy since the beginning but if we’re serious about the long-term growth of this tier and considering we have essentially 0 quick ban options to push tier development/growth our best way at going at this is in my opinion the Kokoloko method.
Now, as it stands
- Deo-S
- Gouging Fire
- Serperior
- Kyurem
- Roaring Moon
- Volcarona
- Enamorus
- Raging Bolt
- Kingambit
- Gholdengo
- Iron Boulder
This list was a good likelihood of what will be included on the latest survey. The Pokemon on this list I want removed from this tier due to the Kokoloko Method. We can use this list as a starting point of what we enact into starting the Kokoloko Method and test them back down one by one.
Now I'm making this post as I want to inform the people on how I view the metagame and feel is the best path we can embark on to improve this tier. I know we things to consider in the future like Tera and our hazard problem. Dealing with the realities of many people being split on a lot of things concerning this tier I'm hoping we can come together on this manner regarding the tier and see to its continued growth.
Please ask as many questions as you want regarding this, give your own list of Pokemon you'd like removed due Kokoloko Method, and please let us have a lengthy discussion as I'm all for it, and let us continue making this tier great!