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Volcarona
- Thread starter Rising_Dusk
- Start date
Incidentally... why do people still EV their base 100 pokémon at 244? Jolly Tyranitar doesn't exist since Platinum...
incidentally, I run Jolly Tyranitar. it's a wierd set but works well.
that isn't always possible, you want to be prepared for any situation, and lum berry is the best way to do that. however, IMO, bulky chestorest is the best (or at least my favourite)
Because people want don't like the feeling of being slow, so they pick a metagame threat with low Speed, out-run it, and then feel good about themselves.
At least, that's my theory.
To be fair outspeeding scarf tar at +1 is actually a big deal for volc, considering it is one of thr few pokemon that always has a rock-type move.
everything originally ran 244 to outrun jolly ttar, but that caused base 100 @ 32 spe to become a significant benchmark on its own...so now everything runs 36 or 40 spe in order to outrun everything else that's right around there, even things like gliscor (who honestly has no business being there, and should either run nothing (defensive) or max (offensive), not whatever it needs to hit 244).
i dont see the point of running extra speed because that will just induce more speed creep.
if the analysis recommends 32, ppl will run 36. if people start running 36, they will soon catch on and run 40. i would just stay at 32 and stay bulky rather tha try to outspeed other pokes of the same species or speed tier.
if the analysis recommends 32, ppl will run 36. if people start running 36, they will soon catch on and run 40. i would just stay at 32 and stay bulky rather tha try to outspeed other pokes of the same species or speed tier.
24 Speed Evs are the best for avoiding speedcreep. outspeeding base 115s is a nice benchmark
Volcarona is incredible. In the sun, Life Orb Volcarona pretty much has perfect coverage with the usual set of Fire Blast / Quiver Dance / Bug Buzz. Just slap on HP Ground and Heatran is out of the picture too. Only wishBliss with Toxic can claim to take this thing on in the sun. I've also been using a Modest nature for extra power, although I haven't done any calculations to confirm whether it gets any crucial KOs Timid cannot. Just know that, in the sun, there is no need to worry about Dragonite (even with EV spreads such as Stone_Cold's Sub DD Dragonite; make sure Stealth Rock is up though), Gyarados (Stealth Rock isn't even necessary to OHKO offensive variants at +1), Salamence, Tentacruel, or Jellicent walling it.
Volcarona has to be my favourite Pokemon this gen mainly because of it's status as the only viable QD Sweeper. The only thing that hampers it is Stealth Rock which slices Volcarona's HP in half everytime it comes out onto the battlefield, reducing it's longevity acutely. But when using it, one must be careful of any Heatrans that may lurk.
You just summed up the whole thread. I'm impressed. And that isnt sarcasm.
How useful do you guys think Swarm will be on Volcarona? with entry hazards and the like on the field, Volcarona's health drops quickly, and you can get him into Swarm range easily for a base 135+STAB power Bug Buzz. Most people run Fiery Dance on Volcarona, and even in the sun that's only 120+STAB power. Thats the difference between Lava Plume and Flamethrower. I think Swarmrona has a lot of potential, what do you guys think?
there is oe quiver dance sweeper that is being overlooked, venomoth but thats off topic.
as stated before, You should really run rapid spin support with volcarona if you dont want to take al that sr damage, in fact its almost required for volcarona to work effectively.
Venomoth is usually seen as a QD baton passer, rather than a sweeper. If she had a better secondary typing like Psychic or something she'd work really awesomly but thats a matter for another thread.
In the war of hazards, a nice consolation would be if you could actually use that weakness to your advantage IE getting in Swarm range. But that wont happen until its released ._.
Like, a sub + QD + 2 attacks set for Swarmrona? Probably with Insect Plate (or even a gem) or Lum Berry, and wholly offensive EVs. That seems like the best set. Come in SR after a loss against something that can't kill you, sub, QD and sweep. If Petaya berry ever gets released, that set will plow through everything.
I don't know about Swarm... Flame Body (ironically enough since it's usually a lame ability) has perfect synergy with Quiver Dance even on frailer sets. The extra QD or two you can get on a burned physical Poke make it better than Swarm at least situationally.
In other news, defensive-minded sets must be referred to as the perfectly linguistic "Bulkarona". :P
In other news, defensive-minded sets must be referred to as the perfectly linguistic "Bulkarona". :P
i think you mean burn hax, but the same thing, it still cripples physical sweepers.
Yeah, that sounds about right. Hold on, I'll do some calcs to see how deadly this guy is against so-called counters. All calcs will be made assuming one QD and a Petaya Berry Boost or Insect Plate Boost. I advise against Bug Gem because it is one-off, and I find that Insect Plate will do just fine.
Edit: I'm bolding the Insect Plate calcs. Petaya berry is great, but not released yet and doesn't get you any notable extra hits as long as you have rock support, except against Heatran where you still don't fare too well.
252 +2 SpAtk Volcarona Swarm Boosted Bug Buzz vs 248 HP/0 SpDef Jellicent: 53.85% - 63.52% 2 hits to KO
252 +1 SpAtk Insect Plate Volcarona Swarm Boosted Bug Buzz vs 248 HP/0 SpDef Jellicent: 48.39% - 57.07% 2 hits to KO
252 +2 SpAtk Volcarona Swarm Boosted Bug Buzz vs 248 HP/8 SpDef Gyarados: 57.25% - 67.18% 2 hits to KO
252 +1 SpAtk Insect Plate Volcarona Swarm Boosted Bug Buzz vs 248 HP/8 SpDef Gyarados: 51.4% - 60.56% 2 hits to KO
252 +2 SpAtk Volcarona Swarm Boosted Bug Buzz vs 252 HP/128 SpDef Dragonite: 47.15% - 55.44% 2 hits to KO after rocks (which negate Multiscale)
252 +1 SpAtk Insect Plate Volcarona Swarm Boosted Bug Buzz vs 252 HP/128 SpDef Dragonite: 42.23% - 49.74% 2 hits to KO after rocks
252 +2 SpAtk Volcarona Swarm Boosted Bug Buzz vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Infernape: 51.02% - 60.2% 2 hits to KO (keep in mind Ape 4x resists the move)
252 +1 SpAtk Insect Plate Volcarona Swarm Boosted Bug Buzz vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Infernape: 45.92% - 54.08% 2 hits to KO after rocks
252 +2 SpAtk Volcarona Swarm Boosted Bug Buzz vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Terrakion: 76.23% - 89.81% 2 hits to KO
252 +1 SpAtk Insect Plate Volcarona Swarm Boosted Bug Buzz vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Terrakion: 68.52% - 80.86% 2 hits to KO
252 +1 SpAtk Insect Plate Volcarona Swarm Boosted Bug Buzz vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Terrakion in Sand: 45.68% - 54.01% 2 hits to KO after Rocks
252 +2 SpAtk Volcarona Swarm Boosted Bug Buzz vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Heatran: 20.21% - 23.83% 5-6 hits to KO
252 +1 SpAtk Insect Plate Volcarona Swarm Boosted Bug Buzz vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Heatran: 18.13% - 21.5% 6-7 hits to KO
252 +2 SpAtk Volcarona Swarm Boosted Bug Buzz vs 0 HP/4 SpDef Heatran: 33.13% - 39.01% 3 hits to KO
252 +1 SpAtk Insect Plate Volcarona Swarm Boosted Bug Buzz vs 0 HP/4 SpDef Heatran: 29.72% - 35.29% 4-5 hits to KO
252 +1 SpAtk Insect Plate Volcarona Swarm Boosted Bug Buzz vs 248 HP/0 SpDef Jellicent: 48.39% - 57.07% 2 hits to KO
252 +2 SpAtk Volcarona Swarm Boosted Bug Buzz vs 248 HP/8 SpDef Gyarados: 57.25% - 67.18% 2 hits to KO
252 +1 SpAtk Insect Plate Volcarona Swarm Boosted Bug Buzz vs 248 HP/8 SpDef Gyarados: 51.4% - 60.56% 2 hits to KO
252 +2 SpAtk Volcarona Swarm Boosted Bug Buzz vs 252 HP/128 SpDef Dragonite: 47.15% - 55.44% 2 hits to KO after rocks (which negate Multiscale)
252 +1 SpAtk Insect Plate Volcarona Swarm Boosted Bug Buzz vs 252 HP/128 SpDef Dragonite: 42.23% - 49.74% 2 hits to KO after rocks
252 +2 SpAtk Volcarona Swarm Boosted Bug Buzz vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Infernape: 51.02% - 60.2% 2 hits to KO (keep in mind Ape 4x resists the move)
252 +1 SpAtk Insect Plate Volcarona Swarm Boosted Bug Buzz vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Infernape: 45.92% - 54.08% 2 hits to KO after rocks
252 +2 SpAtk Volcarona Swarm Boosted Bug Buzz vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Terrakion: 76.23% - 89.81% 2 hits to KO
252 +1 SpAtk Insect Plate Volcarona Swarm Boosted Bug Buzz vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Terrakion: 68.52% - 80.86% 2 hits to KO
252 +1 SpAtk Insect Plate Volcarona Swarm Boosted Bug Buzz vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Terrakion in Sand: 45.68% - 54.01% 2 hits to KO after Rocks
252 +2 SpAtk Volcarona Swarm Boosted Bug Buzz vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Heatran: 20.21% - 23.83% 5-6 hits to KO
252 +1 SpAtk Insect Plate Volcarona Swarm Boosted Bug Buzz vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Heatran: 18.13% - 21.5% 6-7 hits to KO
252 +2 SpAtk Volcarona Swarm Boosted Bug Buzz vs 0 HP/4 SpDef Heatran: 33.13% - 39.01% 3 hits to KO
252 +1 SpAtk Insect Plate Volcarona Swarm Boosted Bug Buzz vs 0 HP/4 SpDef Heatran: 29.72% - 35.29% 4-5 hits to KO
Basically, both the Insect Plate set and a potential Petaya Berry set 2KOs all Volcarona's counters except Heatran. Support should include ways to remove Heatran, SR support, and ways of dealing with status. Specifically, you want a poison type to keep Toxic Spikes off the field. Getting rid of the sand also helps, though I guess you can pass an ingrain or aqua ring to negate sand damage if you're running a sand team. Just keep residual damage away from Volcarona, get rid of Heatran, and thou shalt prosper.
If SR is up against you, you know the strategy. Get in on something you can force out, make a sub, get that Swarm boost, get a Quiver dance, and sweep. If not, your priorities are keeping a sub up at all times and quiver dancing behind it. If you can get more than one Dance up AND get that swarm and Petaya boost, your opponent is screwed. You also want spin support because if the foe gets SR and 3 layers of spikes against you, you're sub-less. And keep in mind that phasing screws you over too if you're in swarm/petaya range, because once you leave the field, you're death fodder.
We need to test this baby out in DW OU to see if its as good in practice as it is on paper. Go Volcarona!
That's the thing: situationally. Swarm will ALWAYS work if the conditions are met, but Flame Body could very well fail you, and it usually does. Not to mention the many non-contact physical moves like EQ and Stone Edge...
Exactly.
The counters you listed in your damage calcs are all dealt better with +1 QD Fire Blast in the Sun, with Volcarona holding either Charcoal or Life Orb. If it's not in the sun, I'd rather have a coverage move > Substitute to deal with some of those threats better (ie HP Rock, HP Ice, HP Ground ...)
The main issue with Swarm is that it activates when Volcarona's at < 33% health, at which point it can be easily revenge-killed by ExtremeSpeed. Volcarona really enjoys having high health, and it does a good job at it, too, with Spin support. I guess the main selling point would be its ability to reliably kill Politoed without Life Orb, but that's about it.
The main issue with Swarm is that it activates when Volcarona's at < 33% health, at which point it can be easily revenge-killed by ExtremeSpeed. Volcarona really enjoys having high health, and it does a good job at it, too, with Spin support. I guess the main selling point would be its ability to reliably kill Politoed without Life Orb, but that's about it.
I'm liking the idea of using Swarm even on a set not specially designed to activate it. I know from experience (fighting against Volcarona, rather than with it) How much a of a difference a sliver of health can make against Bulky Waters, and Swarm could give you that edge. Really, it comes down to what is more of a problem for you to remove; bulky phazing waters, or physical attackers.
The problem with sun is that it's hard to keep up and Ninetails sucks. Fire blast isn't accurate and most people prefer Flame Dance anyway. Life Orb kills you. And the whole point of Swarm is making your Bug Buzz so powerful that you don't even need a coverage move, giving you the moveslot to run Substitute so strong priority like Extremespeed doesnt ruin you.
You can reliably kill Politoed without Life Orb... and then keep sweeping with just Bug Buzz, not minding the rain at all.
You can reliably kill Politoed without Life Orb... and then keep sweeping with just Bug Buzz, not minding the rain at all.
Ninetails doesn't suck, it just isn't the toughest pokemon on the block. I run a set that consistently takes down Tyranitars, by itself. It doesn't do so well against toads though.
Also why was Volcarona even nominated? I run a sun team with no rock moves, including Stealth Rock, and I have never had an issue against Volcarona. I am thinking of trying one though, probably a Bulky set-up version utilizing Morning Sun.
No...I'm pretty sure Ninetales just sucks <,<
Being fast = bad for weather inducer
80-something Sp.Attack = BAD BAD BAD even with NP
Being weak to SR = VERY bad when you need to switch in a lot.
