VoltTurn Mayhem

[Martin]

Hyper Beam and its variants are all really good here. Rock Wreaker in particular is an interesting move due to its very limited distribution (Rhyperior and Crustle are the only fully evolved users barring Smeargle (lol)). In particular, Crustle has a very big niche due to its access to Stealth Rock, Spikes and Rock Wreaker making it a force to be reckoned with.

Crustle @ Custap Berry / Hard Stone
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Rock Wrecker
- Knock Off / Shell Smash

You are probably confused by Shell Smash being slashed on there, but hear me out. While I understand why people say that setup is bad, I've found that Shell Smash is in general a really cool move to have due to it allowing its user to boost their offenses and speed quickly, which can allow the user to outpace and KO things that they wouldn't otherwise be able to take on. In addition, SD, NP and TG all have uses on various Pokémon due to them also boosting quickly while allowing for a slow/medium-paced momentum grabber with extra power - which Shell Smash does not allow for.

 

[drampa's grandpa]

So I'm really starting to think that choiced mons are a really BAD idea in this meta, with certain caveats.
I've been running this set

Dragonite @ Choice Band
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature / Jolly Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Iron Head

And it hasn't been working very well for me for the precise reason that it's choiced and its main moves have immunities. I added Iron Head (I originally had Superpower) because I was tired or coming up against teams that had a ghost and a fairy (often Klefki) and having to play guessing games about which mon they would send in, if any at all. Also the move Protect, rampant in the tier, lets them know for sure once they've figured out your item, what move you are going to use next, and gives them a free switch. Now I've found myself spamming Iron Head more often than not just to ensure getting damage and keeping up momentum. He's also weak to rocks which doesn't help.

I'm considering changing the item to either Leftovers or maybe Silk Scarf. If I change to Leftovers I will probably change one move to Protect and maybe the ability to Multiscale.

Weavile @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Pursuit
- Ice Shard
- Knock Off / Icicle Crash

Here's a set which has been working for me. Scarfed Fake Out is kind of eh however. I was using it as Anti-Lop, but since the standard Lop set often carries Protect locking myself into Fake Out once again ruins momentum. Fortunately you can just ice shard if you predict the Protect, and then be assured of getting out unscathed (unless you were wrong and they Fake Out). Pursuit is also a very valuable because it hits before they switch out, so you can get rid of something they wanted to preserve.

 

[Akumeoy]

Here's a sheddy stall team that got me to #2 on the ladder, briefly, before I lost a few games that dropped me to #3. Admittedly not the biggest deal ever, given how good the ladder isn't, but I'm still proud ^_^. I kind of want to try offense this time around, so I'm gonna share this here. It has flaws, but it's probably still pretty decent if you're interested in playing the archetype.

Hide

love this bug (Shedinja) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 Atk
Lonely Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD / 0 Spe
- Shadow Sneak
- Protect
- Will-O-Wisp
- Secret Power

Did you know that Shedinja switches into a lot of stuff? It's true. It counters shit like miscellaneous FEAR strategies, Giga Impacts and Hyper Beams (save for Flying-type), Scald, etc. Shadow Sneak lets me fast-switch, but you should scout for Rocky Helmet users if possible. Protect is a way to scout for random super-effective moves on shit like Mega Lopunny, which this is is supposed to counter. Will-O-Wisp is a great move for stall teams to be tossing out, unless the opponent has a Magic Bouncer or a Fire-type. Secret Power is not a terribly powerful move, but the paralysis is chance is nice, and more importantly, it lets you switch slowly without risking Rocky Helmet, Fake

regen is a meme (Alomomola) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Wish
- Protect
- Scald
- Knock Off

I should probably adjust the EVs to hit a Leftovers number now that I'm not running Rocky Helmet any more (don't, it needs the passive recovery), but eh. Alomomola passes huge wishes to keep the rest of the team healthy, switches into a boatload of attacks repeatedly, and can be very painful to switch into with the combination of Scald and Knock off.

"stall" (Sylveon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Wish
- Heal Bell
- Protect
- Hyper Beam

The team's secondary wish passer, primary Dragon immunity, cleaner, and cleric. Hyper Beam's accuracy is a pain, and having 8 PP for attacking is also a pain, but the damage output can be really really nice against bulky teams, which rarely have a proper switchin for it. Still could be better -- see below.

xxXXXxXXxXxXXXxXX (Sableye) @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Will-O-Wisp
- Knock Off
- Recover
- Fake Out

This thing is already so fucking good on stall, and now it gets a meta where its ability to switch very fast or very slow is appreciated. WoW and Knock Off mean that precious little can come in on it unscathed. Minimum speed is absolutely necessary to at least speed tie with other Mega Sableye, which can counter this thing. Fake Out is great for scouting out Rocky Helmets that would fuck up Shedinja, but it can be a headache constantly playing mindgames with it and Protect. Tends to get worn down very, very easily. Switches in on just about every Fake Out user not named Mega Lopunny.

not rly a meme (Slowking) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 124 SpA / 136 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Scald
- Fire Blast
- Psychic
- Dragon Tail

A specially defensive tank with Regenerator. I sorely need the offensive presence to actually wear some stuff down without resorting to Sylveon's limited Hyper Beams, and late-game having a second Regenerator user is great for wasting the opponent's PP and racking up burn damage. The spread was suggested by the dex, and the minimized speed minimizes the chance that I lose momentum off of it.

BIRD MACHINE (Skarmory) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 68 Def / 192 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Roost
- Iron Head
- Defog

The team's defogger, rocker, tertiary Fake Out taker, and secondary physical wall. Skarm's spread doesn't do anything special, it just felt good to have vaguely specially defensive EVs. If the opponent has their own Shedinja, keep Skarm's item hidden (if possible) until you're confident that you can bait a Shadow Sneak, because this is the simplest way for the team to manage it. Mega Sableye's presence should help on that front. Iron Head is used because it's also what you use to handle Mega Diancie.

---
Threatlist: Mega Pinsir, Hoopa-Unbound, Heatran, Klefki, probably others.
---
Suggested changes: Sylveon => Magic Guard Clefable to give me a better matchup against status and hazards (which can be hard to keep off the field) and run Thunder Wave, which is literally the most competitive and balanced move in the game of Pokemon. Teams are getting a lot better about running Fairy resists, so Sylveon's offensive presence is just not as relevant as it might seem. Secret Power => Mud Slap on Shedinja. While Secret Power is waaaay more powerful, Mud Slap lets you switch more reliably Mega Sableye teams, because those often run a Rocky Helmet user. It also has the potential to generate free turns on account of the opponent missing or hard-switching.

 

[rfhfdd]

-Slap this on a pokemon with regenerate to stop opponents momentum (namely slobro recycle, and blissy I guess)

This thing with sturdy endeavor is like a freaking god, please suspect

Hyper beam and clones are now viable (unless trapped by eject button)

Getting stealth rocks / spikes up will now wreak havoc on teams
(Magic coat is now absurdly good at stopping this, since taunt/rapid spin/defog makes you switch)

Bulky pokemon with random max speed eves are now more common

Knock off is the single best move in this meta game (considering it hits every eject button pokemon super hard/ knocks off pokemon items and gets to switch on a mega switch in)

 

[Akumeoy]

View attachment 56691 This thing with sturdy endeavor is like a freaking god, please suspect

So what you're saying is... you are not running a Ghost-type, hazards, a Regenerator core, or Fake Out. Or your opponents aren't. In either case, someone has a bad team and could beat FEARon by running one. I don't think we need a suspect.

Hyper beam and clones are now viable (unless trapped by eject button)
Knock off is the single best move in this meta game (considering it hits every eject button pokemon super hard/ knocks off pokemon items and gets to switch on a mega switch in)

I've played over thirty games and never seen anything holding an Eject Button; it's just not a relevant threat that people need to specially prepare for. Leftovers/Black Sludge will gain you more HP over the course of a match that lasts an appreciable amount of time anyways, especially since Eject Button activates whether you really need that extra switch-out's worth of healing anyways. Does it even stop the opponent from switching off of the move they hit you with?

Bulky pokemon with random max speed eves are now more common

... are you sure? Because that sounds like a waste of a good bulky Pokemon, since they usually need all their EVs to hit defensive benchmarks. In my experience, it's more common hat defensive Pokemon will run priority moves to get some chip damage off while switching out.

 

[OrdA]

Actually I thought Eject Button was glitched, that's why I didn't use it. But I just checked, it works the same way in regular OU; blocks the move volt switch from switching.

This is actually an extremely strong item in VT Mayhem then, if it's intended to work like that. Gives you momentum you'd otherwise have to sacc something to get. Also lets you (pursuit) trap things you normally would never get to touch.

 

[Durengardnit]

Attempting stall on Voltturn Mayhem leads to creative results (which don´t work too well in practice, however):

Dumbest Cleric idea ever:
Audino @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
- Baby-Doll Eyes
Apart from Alomomola Audino is the only Wish passer with Regenerator, and it is the only Regenerator with Heal Bell (why, Mega Audino, why Healer as your ability?). Wish keeps yourself and your team healthy, Protect blocks Fake Out and makes sure you get your Wish. Heal Bell removes Status from your team (Scald burns and Thunder Waves are probably the most common ones). Baby-Doll Eyes is the gimmick part of the set. Instead of using an actual damaging attack to switch, this Audino uses Baby-Doll Eyes as a pseudo-Parting Shot. Baby-Doll Eyes has +1 priority and lowers the opponent´s attack, so you can use Wish when your opponent brings in a physical attacker, and then use Baby-Doll Eyes to soften the physical attack for your Wish recipient. Unfortunately it doesn´t lower Special Attack, too. And Audino is forced to hard-switch if it gets taunted (or you can switch by using Struggle, but don´t do that).


One of the best moves against Fake Out and other strong physical attacks is obviously Spiky Shield, so Chesnaught can carve out a tiny niche in this metagame.
Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Spiky Shield
- Drain Punch
- Feint
- Spikes
Spiky Shield is a great way to discourage all that Fake Out spam. Drain Punch gives you a little bit recovery while you switch out. Feint is fun because its 2+ priority means you outspeed Talonflame and can switch into a Birdspam counter. Spikes are useful entry hazards, though the metagame is so fast-paced and Defog is so common that spike stacking is not really recommended. EVs are fully invested in HP and physical defense because a Spiky Shield user is oviously supposed to primarily tank physical attacks.

The other Spiky Shield pokémon, Cacturne and Maractus, are too fragile to really work as defensive Pokémon, although they can use a combination of Spiky Shield and Sucker Punch to damage physical attackers that lack priority and escape unharmed. Their hidden ability Water Absorb allows them to switch in on choiced Water attacks or Scalds from defensive Pokémon.

 

[tehy]

just topped the ladder~

scarf weavile is a god. don't use pursuit on it though, just use dual STAB instead (if you need pursuit that bad drop feint IG)

scarf jirachi has been cool as well

 

[Reiddos]

Has anyone tried using an anti physical offense core?
Seeing as choice scarf has absolutely no draw backs besides immune pokemon switching in pokemon like weavile, talon and all that stuff are just ridiculously good.
I was wondering if anyone has tried running something like chomp helmet + maybe ferro helmet with endure coupled with some form of wish passer to let the opponent kill themselves?
Even something like mirror coat or counter would be pretty interesting anti-meta.
Was wondering if this is something people have been thinking of making?

Would like ideas please. Was thinking the issues with wish passing is stuff ike hyper beam and giga impact etc but yeh would like opinion

 

[SANJAY]

Anyone tried...

Azumarill @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Waterfall
- Aqua Jet
- Superpower / Knock off

Considering the fact that choice items are pretty beast this meta azu is a great band spammer due to it's decent bulk and great attack stat thanks to huge power and it's boosted by it's band. Azumarill also has a decent move pull and has access to priority allowing it to revenge kill some threats and OHKO things on the switch in

 

[OrdA]

I was wondering if anyone has tried running something like chomp helmet + maybe ferro helmet with endure coupled with some form of wish passer to let the opponent kill themselves?
Was thinking the issues with wish passing is stuff ike hyper beam and giga impact etc but yeh would like opinion

You are right on that one, the problem with wish passing is that it mostly involves defensive switches. Only when you can use the move and afterwards stay in on whatever you are facing, that's when the wish can really be passed.

Otherwise you'll find yourself in an endless cycle of defensive switches, up and until you can stay in with something and attack back.
Note that there are several ways around this. An Eject button will let you beak a defensive switch cycle, or else hazards can make it so the opponent accumulates more damage than you do.

That said, there isn't much that likes to switch into a pixilate specs hyper beam even once. There are just a couple very strong threats in the format, which threaten to turn any defensive switch cycle into a pokémon lost.
Heatran can do it, in the mentioned case, but if this doesn't break the cycle it won't really help you unless the opponent misses a move.

Again to the rescue, Eject button is also a strong way to stop hyper beam spam. You switch an eject button steel type into hyper beam; they're forced to stay in and recharge because of eject button, and then you send out your own hyper beam user and revenge kill it in a single hit.

 

[Elavion]

Sand/rain offense is really good in this meta. Excadrill is amazing in sandstorm, and perfectly accurate hurricanes/thunders do wonders from what I've seen so far.

I've been using this (in rain):

Raikou @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder
- Discharge
- Hyper Beam
- Hidden Power [Water]

HP water may seem weird, but it's there only for excadrill really. I'm pretty sure every other electric immunity takes more damage from hyper beam than anything else I could put in that slot.

 

[The Immortal]

I played a few games and I'm not fond of this meta. The constant switching is annoying. Anyway, I just wanted to say that immunities are key in this meta due to the usage of Choice items. Switching to a counter doesn't work because the opponent hits you and switches to their counter. Immunities are the only way to prevent that and to gain momentum, but be aware of predictions.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

Actually, this meta requires some use of your brain, both in teambuilding and in battle, so it's understandable that some people don't like it. I'll still like it though, probably because this meta reminds me of Linked for some reasons. I'll try to formulate this meta so that newer players can get into it better.

This metagame is all about how to wear down your opponent pokes. Two things that are important in this meta: Fake Out and Hazards. It's preferable if your team have both of these, because Fake Out is the best momentum controlling moves and Stealth Rock does damage almost every turn in this meta. If you don't have a Fake Out user, it's fine, but you must prepare for it.

Some key elements in this meta:

Your poke generally wants to have these in moveslots for non choiced pokes (note it doesn't have to be exactly like this).

Protect
Priority, including Fake Out
Hard hitting attacking moves, preferably hyper beam/giga impact variants or draco meteor/overheat variants
filler (recovery, another priority or hard hitting moves)

Fast but frail or bulky but slow pokes work as long as it hits hard. The harder your pokes can punish switch ins, the better chance you win. This is why both bulky pokes and fast pokes work here

As for defensive poke, it's better if your defensive poke follow the above move format. The pokes that doesn't follow the above move format should have one of the following:
1. Regenerator
2. Rough Skin
3. Wonder Guard (only Shedinja)

For Choiced pokes, your pokes wants to
1. Have Inner Focus
2. Be as fast as possible
3. Have priority

For the second and third option, you must beware of Fake out user. If you choice a Fake out user, make sure it also carry Feint, so that if your opponent protects, you still hit and switch. All Choice Items are good in this format, though if you don't have any priority, Choice Scarf should always be your pick.

Note that these are just my tips. If anyone wanna add something of disagree with this post, feel free. Also, harder STAB hitting moves is more important than better coverage, because you are likely to wear down your opponent pokes with RESISTED hits. Coverage is only needed if you predict an immunity or a defensive resists that take nothing from your STAB.

 

[Elavion]

Actually, this meta requires some use of your brain, both in teambuilding and in battle, so it's understandable that some people don't like it.

Not sure if it was intentional, but this sounds a little aggressive in the context of the post above. If it was, please don't do that.

1. Regenerator
2. Rough Skin
3. Wonder Guard (only Shedinja)

Rock neutrality or preferrably resistance helps too.

For the second and third option, you must beware of Fake out user. If you choice a Fake out user, make sure it also carry Feint, so that if your opponent protects, you still hit and switch. All Choice Items are good in this format, though if you don't have any priority, Choice Scarf should always be your pick.

If you don't have any priority, rearrange your team. :P
I disagree on the feint part. It's pitifully weak, just use another priority and two hard-hitting moves. Protect users rarely carry priority and they are often slow, so if you see one jump in front of your fake outer you can often just lock yourself into anything as long as it hits first. Even if they protect, they will still have to take it like a man next turn.
I personally use a banded Weavile, as he outspeeds non-scarfed Mienshaos and still hits hard (also, insanely strong Knock Off in a meta that relies on items even more than standard). Its rock weakness is a big drawback, though.

 

[Ghoul King]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/voltturnmayhem-327886979

At the very end, I manage to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat via Future Sight KOing Mega Lopunny after Stealth Rock scythes through Ferrothorn and Azumarill.

I love Future Sight. Expecting Protect stall turn? Future Sight. Expecting them to keep pressuring me with Mega Lopunny? Future Sight. Expecting them to switch in a sacrifice I'll outspeed and KO with Hyper Beam? Future Sight. It's easy to botch the use and cost yourself, but it's surprisingly powerful, and Mega Gardevoir can make good use of it because its Fairy offense is so threatening to Dark types, leaving primarily Steel types as a problem. The fact that its an offensive action that doesn't switch you can be invaluable for controlling switches while getting in damage.

I actually thought I was dead at one point when it turned out a modification I'd made to Sableye hadn't taken for some reason, so I was really happy to pull this victory off, but more than that I felt it was a good replay to show off Future Sight -not only did I use it to hit Mega Lopunny, but I used it to control the flow of switches.

 

[The Immortal]

Actually, this meta requires some use of your brain, both in teambuilding and in battle, so it's understandable that some people don't like it.

That's not very nice. I was referring to battles taking twice as long (time-wise, not turn-wise) because of the time taken to pick a switch-in every turn. I didn't say anything about losing.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

That's not very nice. I was referring to battles taking twice as long (time-wise, not turn-wise) because of the time taken to pick a switch-in every turn. I didn't say anything about losing.

I meant that sentence in general context, not in response to above post, though I should have been more specified. Sorry about that.

Edit: Also, now that I see how the meta looks like, can I start making viability rankings, Rumors?

 

[OrdA]

Feel free to use this tool for making the viability ratings: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9207945/CompGen.html?ChecksCompendium=1
To insert a minisprite, type part of a pokemon name into an empty line and press tab until you reach the right image. Typing "Newline" will give you a linebreak.
When you're done, select everything on the right side and just copy it over into a smogon post.

Edit: Just wanted to say again that Eject Button is really strong. Both for momentum and for trapping on recharge moves.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/voltturnmayhem-328102692
Edit2: Note that Knock off and status moves don't trigger eject button. It also does not trigger if the holder dies from the attack.

 

[Rumors]

I meant that sentence in general context, not in response to above post, though I should have been more specified. Sorry about that.

Edit: Also, now that I see how the meta looks like, can I start making viability rankings, Rumors?

I want to say yes since more content is always good, but at the same time, the meta is rather fresh and things could shift dramatically. So, I'll just say use your judgement and be ready to change it significantly if something is discovered that upsets the current viabilities.

Edit: Just wanted to say again that Eject Button is really strong. Both for momentum and for trapping on recharge moves.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/voltturnmayhem-328102692
Edit2: Note that Knock off and status moves don't trigger eject button. It also does not trigger if the holder dies from the attack.

Eject Button looks buggy. Kanga should have switched regardless of triggering it or not.

 

[Elavion]

Eject Button looks buggy. Kanga should have switched regardless of triggering it or not.

It sure does. Regardless, I'd say it's good for the meta- it counters the abuse of recharge moves. I'd suggest making it a feature and mentioning it in the first post :)

 

[Ghoul King]

That's not very nice. I was referring to battles taking twice as long (time-wise, not turn-wise) because of the time taken to pick a switch-in every turn. I didn't say anything about losing.

I hadn't realized that was your intention with the post. "The constant switching is annoying" is really vague and actually grated on me as a seemingly unproductive non-criticism of the meta. (ie "meta bashing")

That battles take a while is true, however, and can be one of the more tedious aspects of playing it. It's also counterintuitive given how offensive it is overall -if someone had recommended the meta to me as a fast-paced offensive meta (Which is true in some sense) I probably would've been annoyed at discovering how long matches can actually take.

Feel free to use this tool for making the viability ratings: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9207945/CompGen.html?ChecksCompendium=1
To insert a minisprite, type part of a pokemon name into an empty line and press tab until you reach the right image. Typing "Newline" will give you a linebreak.
When you're done, select everything on the right side and just copy it over into a smogon post.

I'm not sure I understand how one uses this tool, but seeing a Viability Rankings tool fills me with warm-fuzzies.

 

[OrdA]

Eject Button looks buggy. Kanga should have switched regardless of triggering it or not.

That was my first reaction as well, as stated 1-2 pages ago.

But I have confirmed that it works the same with volt switch in regular OU. If it's a bug, it's not a bug with the voltturn mayhem implementation but with the item itself. Somebody should confirm if it works that way on cartridge. (I don't own a game, so can't test it.)

Once we have confirmed that it indeed works that way, we may still decide to ban the item if you guys feel it's an issue. The description doesn't mention it at least.

I'm not sure I understand how one uses this tool, but seeing a Viability Rankings tool fills me with warm-fuzzies.

Here's an example: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u...Output/Compendiums_txt/OU_ViabilityRating.txt - you can copy the right side to a smogon post.

 

[QT]

That was my first reaction as well, as stated 1-2 pages ago.

But I have confirmed that it works the same with volt switch in regular OU. If it's a bug, it's not a bug with the voltturn mayhem implementation but with the item itself. Somebody should confirm if it works that way on cartridge. (I don't own a game, so can't test it.)

Once we have confirmed that it indeed works that way, we may still decide to ban the item if you guys feel it's an issue. The description doesn't mention it at least.

Here's an example: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u...Output/Compendiums_txt/OU_ViabilityRating.txt - you can copy the right side to a smogon post.

Ok, That is seriously amazing.


In other news, I cannot overstate the power of Shedinja in this meta. Specifically, in how it gets momentum. Its so slow that things cant underspeed to hit the switch, can cripple the foe with status, many times for free, and can act as a blanket check for well over half the meta. If half your mons don't have a way to hit shed, you need to fix something. Not only can it wall things to hell and back, it also has acces to two forms of priority.

The only things really stopping it from being great are knock off and sr.

 

[Elavion]

But I have confirmed that it works the same with volt switch in regular OU. If it's a bug, it's not a bug with the voltturn mayhem implementation but with the item itself. Somebody should confirm if it works that way on cartridge. (I don't own a game, so can't test it.)

I can hop on the cart and check it if somebody's willing to help with the test.

(I don't have an Eject Button but if the other person doesn't either I can buy it)