The problem with weezing is gliscor does everything it does better. Sure weezing has better weaknesses (water/ice isn't fun, but at least is predictable), but gliscor heals 25% a turn factoring protect and doesn't lose hp to sandstorm. Also the things gliscor/weezing counter rarely carry ice and water moves (rohpushin/dory). Gliscor has a solid stab earthquake to work off of and acrobat is pretty sweet as well. There is no way weezing wil make OU
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Weezing
- Thread starter Missingno. Master
- Start date
I dont see Gliscor doing better than Weezing when it comes to using Will-o-wisp, Thunderbolt, Haze/Clear Smog, or Stock Pile... And although Weezing doesn't have a super reliable recovery, it DOES have Pain Split.
They are both defensive walls, and thats about it. As you said, they have different weaknesses, but they also do different things. Don't say Gliscor does everything better when they are clearly different all around in move options.
I ran a near max defense Weezing with Thunderbolt/Fire Blast / HAze/ PainSplit and it shut down Roob, Dory, Breeloom after Spore, and basically any other fighting types and often caught gyarados offguard. With Pain split it can even kill Roob if you really hate it as much as i did, or revenge kill it rather. Otherwise you can just make it useles with haze. Will-O-Wisp isn't worth it any more IMO.
They are the same in that they wall physical ground and fighting types.
While gliscor can't WoW, burning pokes isn't a good idea with guts rohpushin being everywhere. Gliscor, unlike weezing, has the power to just KO the pokes it's designed to wall such as rohpushin and doryuuzu. It's dual high BP stabs don't allow free switch-ins the way weezing's extremely weak flamethrower and thunderbolts do. Plus gliscor can be a status absorber and crushes breloom, who weezing can have trouble against. Gliscor also can't be statused.
This is not even taking into account the everpresent sand, which favors gliscor even further. Gliscor outclassed weezing in genIV, and with acrobat and poison heal now makes weezing completely useless unless you have too many ice weaks or something.
While gliscor can't WoW, burning pokes isn't a good idea with guts rohpushin being everywhere. Gliscor, unlike weezing, has the power to just KO the pokes it's designed to wall such as rohpushin and doryuuzu. It's dual high BP stabs don't allow free switch-ins the way weezing's extremely weak flamethrower and thunderbolts do. Plus gliscor can be a status absorber and crushes breloom, who weezing can have trouble against. Gliscor also can't be statused.
This is not even taking into account the everpresent sand, which favors gliscor even further. Gliscor outclassed weezing in genIV, and with acrobat and poison heal now makes weezing completely useless unless you have too many ice weaks or something.
Not to mention, put him on a rain dance team and he has the option of thunder.
I just don't think its so black and white as to say Gliscor is better than Weezing. They are entirely different pokemon. Just the fact that he can spread burn is enough for one to consider Weezing. AND he utilizes special attack, unlike gliscor... although you say he is weak in comparison of power, but that doesnt matter when you take their differences into account.
I just don't think its so black and white as to say Gliscor is better than Weezing. They are entirely different pokemon. Just the fact that he can spread burn is enough for one to consider Weezing. AND he utilizes special attack, unlike gliscor... although you say he is weak in comparison of power, but that doesnt matter when you take their differences into account.
how sound the idea of giving weezing curse + gyroball / payback (and of course will-o-wisp) to make him a physical tank? i know he is screwed by many specials but he could be an awesome physical sweeper this way, at least for some fun games, but there would be no explosion/flame/painsplit-space of course
Curse Weezing isn't a good idea. Its SpDefense is poor, it has no physical STAB to abuse (and even if it did, Poison is a crappy offensive type...although it should at least learn Gunk Shot), and all of its worthwhile coverage moves are special attacks.
Yes, there are some things that Weezing can do that Gliscor can't, the most important of which is Will-o-Wisp, but as a physically defensive Pokemon that is immune to Ground and resists Fighting and Bug, Gliscor is generally more effective. It has consistent recovery, is immune to status, can actually outspeed things, and is offensively threatening.
Yes, there are some things that Weezing can do that Gliscor can't, the most important of which is Will-o-Wisp, but as a physically defensive Pokemon that is immune to Ground and resists Fighting and Bug, Gliscor is generally more effective. It has consistent recovery, is immune to status, can actually outspeed things, and is offensively threatening.
On the other hand, Weezing....really can't do much back to threats unless a team has something pretty overspecific. What Weezing could handle is mostly also handled by Gliscor (pretty sad considering Gliscor can actually afford to use Protect). Other than the occational Fire Blast and Will-O-Wisp, Weezing could add unnecessary weight to at eam. that fact that Weezing can't really rid of weather sweepers either without taking a big hit is...yeah.
You forget that heatran also gets will o wisp/lava plume. All he has to do is burn you and you're screwed.
Weezing is a specific check to specific pokemon, nothing more. Unlike Gliscor, who can still fire off decently powerful STAB attacks with its 226 Atk and 100/110 BP attacks, Weezing is doing pitiful damage to anything not weak to Thunderbolt / Flamethrower / Sludge Bomb. Gliscor is a better Heracross counter, Weezing gets Gyarados I guess. Other than that, I don't see it being too useful at all (yeah it spreads burns, but that isn't particularly effective on the special-based threats that will be switching in on it).
The bolded part is exactly why I always felt bad for physical walls that get will o wisp. Weezing is a prime example.
I don't know. I love Weezing. Maybe I defend it just because its one of my favorite pokemon to use, and I absolutely love poison types. Also, I have used him a lot in OU 4th gen and he saved my ass many times, checking great offensive threats for me, such as Gyarados (a lot of my friends use gyarados too, so I always had one on my team when I hung out with them), Scizors, and Brelooms (after sleep clause).
As said, most of these things are countered by Gliscor as well, but that weakness to ice and water really sucks in comparison to a measly weakness to psychic (lets face it, its no where near as half as prominent as water or ice is). Of course, immunity to sand/status/electric, better healing, and better attack/speed just give it a huge boost over the poison ogre head.
I read someone say this on here before, and I totally agree with it. It would be awesome if he got an evolution, and they called it Choking. He just needs some sort of boost... but then again, so do many others.
I can see only one problem with this set. Stockpile + Clear Smog = useless stockpile? Clear Smog might just eliminate Stockpile's status effects, as that's what Clear Smog does, it's Haze + Swift, with 10 less Base Power.
although I thing Clear Smog can go a long way, if it can hit Evasion N00bs, AND remove their Evasiveness, then perhaps evasion won't be banned (lol, who am I kidding?)
but seriously, this would be good against dragon dance/butterfly dance/curse users
Clear Smog only removes the opponent's stat changes IIRC.
It can certainly do a number to physical rain sweepers not named Ludicolo; Kabutops takes a big hit from thunderbolt or will-o-wisp (most things do not enjoy burns anyway) and nattorei is similarly neutered by Will-o-wisp. However, once rain dies down (or Drizzle is banned lol) it'll be a far lot more viable.
That's really it, though. If you switch into Kabutops, you are likely coming into STAB LO Stone Edge or Waterfall, or will be taking either of the 2 attacks next turn because you came in on SD.
Nattorei is not offensively threatening anyway (although it hits decently hard I guess) and is not your largest concern against rain. Kingdra Hydro Pumps right through you...so it isn't too big of an accomplishment IMO.
Nattorei is not offensively threatening anyway (although it hits decently hard I guess) and is not your largest concern against rain. Kingdra Hydro Pumps right through you...so it isn't too big of an accomplishment IMO.
where is now the point in using haze over clear smog? the --- accuracy is far better - even to bash inconsistent freaks, it has a (little but better because this effect than sludge bomb) stabattack and it can still use stockpile, the guys who resist poison are not using many boosting moves (body purge / stone whatever aggron still sucks) and is an opposing leer that kind of broken to weezing?
a weezing evo would be cool, like smogtrio or such a tripple headed poison/steel, slower but with more overall stats else (if arbok got a fire/poison-evo too to make new typecombos but arbok still sucks) and with levitate of course, a single fire weakness and with that hp/spdef of weezing it would still be not too good
not resist i mean immun to
a weezing evo would be cool, like smogtrio or such a tripple headed poison/steel, slower but with more overall stats else (if arbok got a fire/poison-evo too to make new typecombos but arbok still sucks) and with levitate of course, a single fire weakness and with that hp/spdef of weezing it would still be not too good
not resist i mean immun to
If weezing had an evolution and was part steel I am sure he would be instant beast. Resisting 10 types, immune to 2, neutral to 4, and weak to 1? Yeah, I always think if Weezing was part steel, he isn't going to die ANY time soon.
I don't think it's particularly practical to speculate about what Weezing could have been. :0 Let's stay on topic here and focus on what Weezing actually DOES have to work with.
So to me, it looks like we have a few distinct standard-ish sets emerging here... The semi-offensive Hazer, sans Stockpile, and the more defensive Stockpile variant.
Toxic Tank -OR- Physical Wall
Bold, 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp / Haze
- Pain Split
Weezing's token set from 4th gen... not a lot else to say about it, but switch it in on physical attackers and make them cry. Will-O-Wisp VS Haze is a matter of the user's preference: Wisp walls shit even harder than it already did, while Haze prevents setup sweepers from overpowering you with DD/SD/Bulk Up boosts, as well as making it a fantastic Inconsistent counter to boot.
Mixed / Dedicated Wall
Calm / Bold, 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
- Stockpile
- Pain Split
- Toxic / Will-O-Wisp
- Fire Blast / Clear Smog
This is the set to use for long term stalling and walling. The EVs and Weezing's natural physical bulk let it take physical and special hits alike, and after a Stockpile or three, it's going to be laughing at everything that gets thrown at it (a nice bonus to it as a wall is that it can't be stalled out by Toxic by virtue of its typing), especially with Pain Split for recovery. Toxic VS Will-O-Wisp is whether you favor stalling foes out, or taking physical hits even better than you already are. If choosing Toxic, then Fire Blast (or Flamethrower) is the recommended option in the fourth slot for hitting Steel-types (bar Heatran, who walls this set to hell and back). Clear Smog allows Weezing to laugh at setup sweepers, who otherwise might cause trouble for this Weezing's lack of an offensive arsenal.
These are two sets I'd like to see in the OP.
Thoughts?
Edit: Now with natures and EVs! :naughty: And modified (crappy) set titles! And some comments regarding usage (feel free to steal/paraphrase!)
So to me, it looks like we have a few distinct standard-ish sets emerging here... The semi-offensive Hazer, sans Stockpile, and the more defensive Stockpile variant.
Toxic Tank -OR- Physical Wall
Bold, 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp / Haze
- Pain Split
Weezing's token set from 4th gen... not a lot else to say about it, but switch it in on physical attackers and make them cry. Will-O-Wisp VS Haze is a matter of the user's preference: Wisp walls shit even harder than it already did, while Haze prevents setup sweepers from overpowering you with DD/SD/Bulk Up boosts, as well as making it a fantastic Inconsistent counter to boot.
Mixed / Dedicated Wall
Calm / Bold, 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
- Stockpile
- Pain Split
- Toxic / Will-O-Wisp
- Fire Blast / Clear Smog
This is the set to use for long term stalling and walling. The EVs and Weezing's natural physical bulk let it take physical and special hits alike, and after a Stockpile or three, it's going to be laughing at everything that gets thrown at it (a nice bonus to it as a wall is that it can't be stalled out by Toxic by virtue of its typing), especially with Pain Split for recovery. Toxic VS Will-O-Wisp is whether you favor stalling foes out, or taking physical hits even better than you already are. If choosing Toxic, then Fire Blast (or Flamethrower) is the recommended option in the fourth slot for hitting Steel-types (bar Heatran, who walls this set to hell and back). Clear Smog allows Weezing to laugh at setup sweepers, who otherwise might cause trouble for this Weezing's lack of an offensive arsenal.
These are two sets I'd like to see in the OP.
Thoughts?
Edit: Now with natures and EVs! :naughty: And modified (crappy) set titles! And some comments regarding usage (feel free to steal/paraphrase!)
I'll add the sets once the EVs are added. I'm no better with defensive EVs myself, unfortunately. However, if anyone else here can suggest good defensive EVs, feel free.
Personally with the second set, the weezing whall, I would just do 252hp/252spdef/4def. If I am going to raise my defense and special defense at the same time with stock pile, I would RATHER have my special defense be higher just for the fact that weezing can already take a hit physically before the stock pile occurs. Try to maximize any special defensive bulk by a tiny bit.
Of course this doesnt help while switching in on an attack, as he might not be able to take a physical hit as well as one would expect unless it was on something he resists.
Of course this doesnt help while switching in on an attack, as he might not be able to take a physical hit as well as one would expect unless it was on something he resists.
Those EVs sound decent. I'm assuming that the nature would be Calm, then?
Calm for sure.
If one really wants to spread the defensive EV's around for more physical bulk, I am sure its fine. But in my mind, as I said before... If I am already raising BOTH my defenses, and my physical defense is already pretty good, then there is no reason for me to really put EV's in, and should invest in my special defense instead.
If one really wants to spread the defensive EV's around for more physical bulk, I am sure its fine. But in my mind, as I said before... If I am already raising BOTH my defenses, and my physical defense is already pretty good, then there is no reason for me to really put EV's in, and should invest in my special defense instead.
I'd have gone Bold for both, but Calm works. I agree with these EVs for the more Wallish set. I'm gonna go see if I can rip off some semi-offensive EVs from a 4th Gen Weezing analysis... >.>
EDIT: Bold, 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA is the spread that's typically used on any sets resembling the first I posted. Theoretically, you could allocate some more of those Defense EVs to Sp Atk to land specific KOs, but I don't have a reliable 5th Gen damage calculator to make any specific changes, so... :0 252 / 252 / 4 it is. I'll edit the EVs and natures into my post.
EDIT: Bold, 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA is the spread that's typically used on any sets resembling the first I posted. Theoretically, you could allocate some more of those Defense EVs to Sp Atk to land specific KOs, but I don't have a reliable 5th Gen damage calculator to make any specific changes, so... :0 252 / 252 / 4 it is. I'll edit the EVs and natures into my post.