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What aren't we writing about? (Pokemon unfit for OU Analyses)

The OP has to be updated with a statement or something saying that people shouldn't be mad that their favorite Pokemon is not in the tier they want it to be and they shouldn't bring up stuff that is clearly not OU.

Weezing comes to mind with all the grounded offensive types, but unfortunately, it cannot do much to the things it would like to wall. Either they ignore his weaker attacks, or are immune to Will-o-wisp or something like that.

And Vespiquen.......has 40 base Speed to accompany that 4x weakness to Stealth Rock.
 
On the subject of Hariyama and Throh, let's make a comparison.
Hariyama has 144/60/60 defenses and Thick Fat, while Throh has 120/85/85 defenses.

Thick Fat means that Hariyama gets two resistances to Fire and Ice, two common attacking types while Throh gets Mold Breaker, enabling him to hit Leviators with Earthquake.

Offensive wise, Hariyama has 20 more base attack than Throh (120:100)

Throh's movepool is rather shallow, which Hariyama has a plethora of options including Fake Out, Close Combat (why the heck doesn't Throh get this?), Whirlwind, Knock Off and the elemental punches.

So should Hariyama get an OU analysis? I believe so, but this is all based on theory. I haven't even played Pokemon Online yet, so I don't have much experience.
 
I think he should. He's comparable enough to warrant a seperate analysis or at least a mention in Throh's analysis (in my opinion, it should be Throh being mentioned in Hariyama's analysis, but whatever) He can run more or less the same sets as Throh too, and gets a more powerful paralysis move in Force Palm, Ice Punch to slap Gliscor around with. He doesn't get Storm Throw, but on bulky sets Revenge is probably as good (if not better) unless you get into a boosting war.

Plus (can someone verify this isn't illegal) Hariyama is basically the physical Nidoking with a set of Close Combat / Ice Punch / Thunder Punch / Fire Punch and Sheer Force. Give him paralysis or Trick Room support and watch the sparks fly.

Also, about Weezing, why would you use Psybeam over Hidden Power Psychic?
 
Seeking permission to write an analysis on Arbok.

Before you say how bad it is, let me explain. Arbok can be surprisingly bulky with its Intimidate abilty and useful resistances (eg. Fighting). It has access to Coil, Gunk Shot, Poison Jab, Sucker Punch, Earthquake and other decent attacks, and great supporting moves such as Glare, Toxic and Switcheroo. Also worth mentioning is the great combo of Stockpile, Shed Skin and Rest.

The main set would be:

Item: Black Sludge / Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
Nature: Adamant / Jolly
EV's: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpD

- Coil
- Gunk Shot
- Earthquake / Fire Fang
- Sucker Punch / Seed Bomb / Rock Slide / Aqua Tail / Glare

Coil increases Arbok’s Attack, Defense and Accuracy. This makes it perfect for use with Gunk Shot, which is a very powerful 120 base attack with only 70% accuracy. So use Coil on the switch, and then attack whatever switches in with a boosted, accurate, STAB Gunk Shot.

Earthquake is there to cover Steel types that are immune to Gunk Shot, and it also gets rid of Rock and Poison types that are resistant to Gunk Shot. But Fire Fang can be used if you are having problems with Steel/Flying, Poison/Flying, Poison/Levitate or Steel/Levitate Pokemon.

Seed Bomb, Rock Slide and Aqua Tail give good coverage, and the latter two moves will appreciate the Accuracy boost. Sucker Punch is great for taking care of Psychic Pokemon that switch-in to deal with Arbok, as well as handling the threat of Gengar which resists your other attacks. Glare can cripple stuff.

Black Sludge heals Arbok while you take time powering up with Coil. But Life Orb is also a good option for adding extra power to your attacks.

EV's are straight forward.

There are variations to this set, including a bulky EV spread that uses Rest to recover damage accumulated with Coiling, and Shed Skin to wake up sooner.

Arbok also has a Toxic Staller set and a Choice Band set. Plus there's the Neurotoxin set from the D/P OU analysis which is still viable.
 
Marzbar said:
Seeking permission to write an analysis on Arbok.

Before you say how bad it is, let me explain. Arbok can be surprisingly bulky with its Intimidate abilty and useful resistances (eg. Fighting). It has access to Coil, Gunk Shot, Poison Jab, Sucker Punch, Earthquake and other decent attacks, and great supporting moves such as Glare, Toxic and Switcheroo. Also worth mentioning is the great combo of Stockpile, Shed Skin and Rest.
Click to expand...

Isn't Arbok kinda outclassed by Gyarados? They're both bulky intimidators with a fighting resist and setup moves, only Gyarados has a better STAB, much better resists and weaknesses, and better defenses all around.

Plus, Arbok can't actually threaten anything with its completely lackluster offenses, so I'm not sure how it's getting time to set up with that set.
 
A Man In Black said:
Isn't Arbok kinda outclassed by Gyarados? They're both bulky intimidators with a fighting resist and setup moves, only Gyarados has a better STAB, much better resists and weaknesses, and better defenses all around.

Plus, Arbok can't actually threaten anything with its completely lackluster offenses, so I'm not sure how it's getting time to set up with that set.
Click to expand...

A 100% accurate +1 STAB Gunk Shot is actually rather threatening. Despite being Poison-type, 120 BP isn't anything to scoff at.

It's a logical comparison, but their typing and boosting moves are quite different. Arbok is meant to become bulky after a couple Coils, where Gyarados turns into a physical sweeper after a Dragon Dance or two. Arbok also has a priority move in the form of Sucker Punch, which is actually pretty cool with its typing, as it hits Psychic-types before they can use a super-effective STAB move, and Ghost-types, who resist Poison-type attacks.

While Arbok is never going to be a vital threat in the OU metagame, it still does not really have anything that directly competes with it (Eelektross is the closest competitor I can think of, and it still misses out on priority and Intimidate). I mean, if Simipour is getting an analysis, I don't see why Arbok can't. Anybody know what genuinely outclasses it?

-Zane
 
I think Volbeat and Sableye should be taken off the list. They both get Prankster through DW. Sableye having priority WOW and Volbeat having Priority Encore, Baton Pass and TAIL GLOW!!! Yes a tail glow passer. They both have access to trick and Sableye also has priority mean look, recover, confuse ray, taunt and many other defensive moves!
 
am zane ok. said:
A 100% accurate +1 STAB Gunk Shot is actually rather threatening. Despite being Poison-type, 120 BP isn't anything to scoff at.

It's a logical comparison, but their typing and boosting moves are quite different. Arbok is meant to become bulky after a couple Coils, where Gyarados turns into a physical sweeper after a Dragon Dance or two. Arbok also has a priority move in the form of Sucker Punch, which is actually pretty cool with its typing, as it hits Psychic-types before they can use a super-effective STAB move, and Ghost-types, who resist Poison-type attacks.

While Arbok is never going to be a vital threat in the OU metagame, it still does not really have anything that directly competes with it (Eelektross is the closest competitor I can think of, and it still misses out on priority and Intimidate). I mean, if Simipour is getting an analysis, I don't see why Arbok can't. Anybody know what genuinely outclasses it?

-Zane
Click to expand...

Thanks for seeing the potential.

Would you use a bulky EV spread? Maybe investing in some special defense so he can take a hit from both sides of the spectrum, or maybe even some defense EV's to make him even more physically strong? You could even use Shed Skin instead of Intimidate and then lose a move for Rest, so you could use Coil a couple of times and then Rest off the damage. I'm not sure whether the set would be better with straight ATK/Speed EV's or opting for the bulkier Rest version....
 
Ok, I'll confess one thing: after seeing some posts here I had to re-check Arbok's stats because I thought something was wrong...

Are you seriously saying a Pokemon with 60 / 69 / 79 is physically bulky???

Those defenses are mediocre at best! It doesn't matter if it's using Coil, with those defenses, most physical attackers will be able to threaten it out anyway (don't say that Intimidate will put them at - Atk because with Arbok's Speed that implies it will take 2 hits and survive...).

Not to mention that special attackers such as Thundurus, Tornadus, Reuniclus, and Volcarona don't give it a chance to switch in.

And stall teams often run Jellicent, Gliscor, and Skarmory which shut it down completely.

So why do you think it deserves an analysis???
 
DerickNotName said:
I think Volbeat and Sableye should be taken off the list. They both get Prankster through DW. Sableye having priority WOW and Volbeat having Priority Encore, Baton Pass and TAIL GLOW!!! Yes a tail glow passer. They both have access to trick and Sableye also has priority mean look, recover, confuse ray, taunt and many other defensive moves!
Click to expand...

Firstly, neither Pokemon has been released in the Dream World yet.

Secondly, since Sableye has been discussed ad nauseam, Volbeat just can't survive long enough to effectively pass Tail Glow, although it is an interesting concept.

zdrup15 said:
Ok, I'll confess one thing: after seeing some posts here I had to re-check Arbok's stats because I thought something was wrong...

Are you seriously saying a Pokemon with 60 / 69 / 79 is physically bulky???

Those defenses are mediocre at best! It doesn't matter if it's using Coil, with those defenses, most physical attackers will be able to threaten it out anyway (don't say that Intimidate will put them at - Atk because with Arbok's Speed that implies it will take 2 hits and survive...).

Not to mention that special attackers such as Thundurus, Tornadus, Reuniclus, and Volcarona don't give it a chance to switch in.

And stall teams often run Jellicent, Gliscor, and Skarmory which shut it down completely.

So why do you think it deserves an analysis???
Click to expand...

It could run a set similar to Cradily with Stockpile and Coil, although it does have to deal with the tiny matter of being Earthquake-weak...
 
Galladiator said:
It could run a set similar to Cradily with Stockpile and Coil, although it does have to deal with the tiny matter of being Earthquake-weak...
Click to expand...

Cradily has base 86 / 97 / 107 defenses and is often (if not always) used under Sandstorm which makes its Special Defense even better so don't compare them because Arbok is not even close
 
Forget the bulkiness debate. Arbok still has:

Intimidate
Coil
Gunk Shot
priority Sucker Punch
Glare or 4th move for coverage

It needs ONE Coil, and with proper EV investment, it becomes a sufficiently fast threat packing an accurate +1 STAB 120 bp Gunk Shot.

(and yes, it does have answers to Steels, Ghosts and Psychics)
 
Marzbar said:
Forget the bulkiness debate. Arbok still has:

Intimidate
Coil
Gunk Shot
priority Sucker Punch
Glare or 4th move for coverage

It needs ONE Coil, and with proper EV investment, it becomes a sufficiently fast threat packing an accurate +1 STAB 120 bp Gunk Shot.

(and yes, it does have answers to Steels, Ghosts and Psychics)
Click to expand...

Fast??? How is base 80 Speed fast when it's outsped by almost everything in OU?

And a Pokemon only has 4 moves so if you go with Coil / GS / SP / EQ you can't use Glare and are easily outsped and "revenge killed" (it won't be revenge as I can't see Arbok KOing anything).

If you use Glare, you have to drop either EQ or SP. If you drop EQ Steel-types eat you alive. If you drop SP you can't touch faster threats.

Also Gunk Shot isn't that good. It hits Grass-types for super effective damage while being resisted by 4 types (including Rock and Ground) and Steel is immune...

If you still don't see why it isn't viable I'll stop wasting my time with this discussion.
 
zdrup15 said:
Fast??? How is base 80 Speed fast when it's outsped by almost everything in OU?

And a Pokemon only has 4 moves so if you go with Coil / GS / SP / EQ you can't use Glare and are easily outsped and "revenge killed" (it won't be revenge as I can't see Arbok KOing anything).

If you use Glare, you have to drop either EQ or SP. If you drop EQ Steel-types eat you alive. If you drop SP you can't touch faster threats.

Also Gunk Shot isn't that good. It hits Grass-types for super effective damage while being resisted by 4 types (including Rock and Ground) and Steel is immune...

If you still don't see why it isn't viable I'll stop wasting my time with this discussion.
Click to expand...

252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe Impish Arbok receives 34.26% - 40.74% from Terrakion's Choice Band Rock Slide, factoring in Intimidate. Close Combat is 27.47% - 32.41%.

Eh.

Still, I can't really see why Arbok isn't getting an analysis when Simipour is getting one. I mean sure, there's nothing in OU that has the particular assets that these two do, but that does not mean that they're OU viable, at all, in my opinion. Not to take away some poor (LOL PUN) user's Simipour analysis.

I don't know why I'm still talking about Arbok in OU. I think it's 'cause I'm really tired. Hence the terrible pun.

-Zane

P.S. Arbok for cool points.
 
am zane ok. said:
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe Impish Arbok receives 34.26% - 40.74% from Terrakion's Choice Band Rock Slide, factoring in Intimidate. Close Combat is 27.47% - 32.41%.

Eh.

Still, I can't really see why Arbok isn't getting an analysis when Simipour is getting one. I mean sure, there's nothing in OU that has the particular assets that these two do, but that does not mean that they're OU viable, at all, in my opinion. Not to take away some poor (LOL PUN) user's Simipour analysis.

I don't know why I'm still talking about Arbok in OU. I think it's 'cause I'm really tired. Hence the terrible pun.

-Zane
Click to expand...

Interesting that you calced Rock Slide because with Stone Edge (which is the attack everyone uses) is a whole different story. And CB Terrakion also packs EQ - try to calc that too...

And if you want Arbok to have an analysis because Simipour (which you think it's unviable) has, why not try to prove Simipour is unviable instead?
 
zdrup15 said:
Interesting that you calced Rock Slide because with Stone Edge (which is the attack everyone uses) is a whole different story. And CB Terrakion also packs EQ - try to calc that too...

And if you want Arbok to have an analysis because Simipour (which you think it's unviable) has, why not try to prove Simipour is unviable instead?
Click to expand...

Wow. I'm retarded. I checked my browsing history, and I guess I've never even looked at Terrakion's analysis. asdfasdfsadf qq. All they ever seem to do is Close Combat me, though. ):

Well, to my knowledge, the only reason Simipour was deemed viable was because there are no other offensive boosting Water-type sweepers (despite the existence of Gorebyss...). On the grounds of that idea alone, there are no Intimidate users with both priority and a good boosting move (Arcanine has... Howl).

But I'm just being argumentative right now. c: (I admit defeat.)

-Zane
 
Simipour shouldn't be getting an analysis.

And save Arbok for UU, where his good points will be actually useful. Coil and Gunk Shot is a nice combination, but his stat spread is just too pitiful for OU.
 
Why can't I find the Gliscor analysis? I'm sure I saw one on here before... and it's too good to NOT to have an analysis.....
 
No on Arbok. Just... no.

As for Hariyama vs. Throh, I personally tested the Bulk Up set for Throh, and Circle Throw makes Throh such a useful Pokemon, both support-wise and setup-wise. Throh definitely deserves an analysis.

As for Simipour, feel free to argue it off. Bud don't say "x mon I think is shitty is getting one so y mon should get one too" because that doesn't fly around here.
 
Seven Deadly Sins said:
As for Hariyama vs. Throh, I personally tested the Bulk Up set for Throh, and Circle Throw makes Throh such a useful Pokemon, both support-wise and setup-wise. Throh definitely deserves an analysis.
Click to expand...

So is Circle Throw the key factor in whether Hariyama gets an analysis or not?
 
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