What aren't we writing about? (Pokemon unfit for OU Analyses)

[Aerodactyl Legend]

I request Crygonal to be removed from the list. While most Crygonal could run a support set with Rapid spin, Recover, Haze, Light Screen, Reflect or something along those lines, attacking is where it could shine. With a choice scarf, Crygonal is a rather good Dragon Slayer as it outspeeds Choice Scarf Garchomp, Choice Scarf Hydreigon, and Choice Scarf Flygon and kills Garchomp and Flygon with a STAB Ice Beam while damaging Hydreigon for a good amount. It also outspeeds +1 Salamence, Dragonite, Rayquaza(I do not know why you would put it in Ubers,) Altaria, and Haxorus, while killing most of them in one shot besides Dragonite, and Haxorus, (and Salamence if it has a Yache Berry and a good amount of health remaining). Why do you want to use it over Weavile as a Dragon Slayer? It takes special hits better. Not scared of gettin intimidated by Salamence. Has Levitate to switch in easier to Choice Garchomp and Flygon using Earthquake. It can also run a support set with some success. However, it is not immune to Psychic, and lacks STAB Dark Type moves like Pursuit, (although its attack is pitiful compared to Weavile to begin with). It also has less defense, but it can be remedied with Acid Armor or Reflect. It also lacks a Bug and 4x Fighting weakness. It is also slower than Weavile. Just think of it as a special version of Weavile that can go support as well. It also get a stronger STAB in Ice Beam or Blizzard if you prefer (compared to Ice Punch). It also gets Solarbeam if for whatever reason you put it on a Sunny Day team (at least it wouldn't get walled by bulky Water types).

Special version of Weavile.....?

It's just a faster Regice. It's weak to Stealth Rock, has the lowest Defense ever, and has a terrible offensive movepool. Use this for a Dragon Slayer? No, it's not an attacker at all. And because it's Ice, it can't even stall well. For it to be useful, it must use use those support moves and Recover. No way that it can hold up to the standard game with what it has.

 

[A Man In Black]

I request Crygonal to be removed from the list.

Cryo's attacking movepool is Ice Beam, Flash Cannon, Hidden Power, and...uh...

It's OHKOed by any physical attack of any kind, particularly priority attacks and Pursuit. Plus, it's weak to SR, resists only ice, and can only really switch into choice-locked ground attacks.

 

[Saladbagle]

It is also immune to spikes and toxic spikes. Weavile is also weak to SR. Base 95 is not bad my any means for Special Attack. Looked better in my mind. Might as well wait for Pokemon Rainbow to come out to see if Mr. Snowflake gets anything good.

 

[Sebasti]

D: I dont like that ursaring is on that list.

Maybe its just me, but with the addition of smack down, he feels a lot more useful.

My moveset is
- Guts
-- Flame orb or Toxic Orb (Toxic gives less of a start, so one-turning for the boost and then switching is good countermeasure)

Earthquake
Smack-down
Protect/Fire Punch (If your playing with a passer, the +6 boost ought to let you get the hit, kill, and then boost after)
Facade


Of course I play with a passer, so I usually manage a +6 on ursa. Protect turn 1 for the status boost, and its set. Between the moveset, facade ought to one-shot most things, smack-down+EQ means no electross/levi resistance.

Mix with the huge attack potential with guts or the speed with quick feet, you can potentially have a good counter for most things. Ferrothorn may be an issue but ground at least hits neutral, and a +6 pass or a simple guts boost ought to solve it a bit.

Add in that his stats may not be huge, with a 90/75/75 he may not be tanking much, but he can do well for a good counter. Even a switch in, with the protect and guts boost going off, you'll have a good chance of killing whatever is in front of you with a STAB guts boosted x2 facade.

Theres also his nice moveset, allowing for all three elemental punches, gunk shot, seed bomb, Avalanche, Cross Chop, and Night Slash. Mix with his huge attack and he can be a good counter measure. Ferrothorn should, in all logic, crumble under a guts boosted x4 fire punch.



Maybe its just me and my favoritism ://

 

[Zebstrika]

Also, it has Close Combat so the steels can't wall it (besides maybe Skarmory). It hurts once Guts activates, and it can be quite fast with Quick Feet (343 speed) while still racking up pain with Facade.

 

[prem]

um... 343 speed is slower than base 108s.... which means that the trio and infernape and everything beyond that is much faster and 4 of them have a super effective stab move.... dont think that will work

 

[Zebstrika]

Yeah...it's a problem that almost every normal type has. Blissey doesn't like those pokemon, but she is still used.

 

[prem]

well ursurang isnt very defensive like blissey and outside of defensive pokes i cant think of one common used normal type (the only ones i can think of are blissey, chancey, and porygon2....)

but ya if other people say it will work then i guess it can, not like i have tried it personally

 

[Zebstrika]

Besides, you listed four reliable checks. Boo hoo, every pokemon in OU has several checks for each set.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Ursaring and Cryogonal are not happening. Sorry guys.

EDIT: Zebstrika, cool it with the attitude. Posts like that get you nowhere.

 

[Sebasti]

Ursaring and Cryogonal are not happening. Sorry guys.

I can understand cryo...

But, not to argue just for the sake of knowing, why not ursaring?
Not much will stand up to a boosted x2 facade, and his nice moveset and good attack can have him work as a counter for just about anything. Saves up a spot or two on your team for that ferrothorn/excadrill/electross counter by him doing it himself.

Plus as for the speed issue, Haxorus at top nature and EV is slower than quick feet ursaring and has a worse movepool, yet he is up for discussion.

As for bellypassing, I usually use Smeargle. Spore + Bellypass works pretty well for me, what with the sleep mechanics. As for that list, I dont like conkeldurr because he is slower and I dont have the option to run quick feet. Also movepool issues.

The rest of those are nice, but lacking the stab facade makes me iffy. Plus, as much as I like Guts, I dont like the idea of trading off the Normal type thing for Fighting. Its a personal preference thing, honestly. I like Ursaring more, and I never said he shouldnt be on the list, I just dont like that he is on there. ://

I feel he is pretty decent. He's not severely lacking, and you can't exactly wall him if you diversify the movepool a bit. His movesets take care of common walls and counters, and his abilities are pretty good. He frees up spots, he doesn't suffer from the fight/rock/normal issues of the rest of the guts pokemon, and where as buffolaunt and braviary give him issues for his normal stab ability, neither gets the power from guts, nor the speed from QF in order to do what he does. He doesn't even need a passer if your running him, since protect will give you the one-turn needed for his boost. I feel that, with the right working, he can easily cover some of the mainstream pokemon and get some good hits in. Plus normal is a decent enough typing, what with the no quads and only one real weakness (fighting) and a resistance to a somewhat common typing in ghost.

 

[prem]

Plus as for the speed issue, Haxorus at top nature and EV is slower than quick feet ursaring and has a worse movepool, yet he is up for discussion.

yes but at the same time hax doesnt have to give himself toxic to pull that off and he has almost perfect coverage in 2 moves (skarm being the only real counter).

 

[Bugbot]

Not much will stand up to a boosted x2 facade, and his nice moveset and good attack can have him work as a counter for just about anything. Saves up a spot or two on your team for that ferrothorn/excadrill/electross counter by him doing it himself.

Normal isn't a good attacking type. Look at Snorlax. Sure, he gets some usage, but still... he's not as good as he used to be. Viable, but not a huge threat.

Plus as for the speed issue, Haxorus at top nature and EV is slower than quick feet ursaring and has a worse movepool, yet he is up for discussion.

You cannot compare Haxorus to Ursaring. Haxorus has Dragon Dance, so it can and WILL outspeed very fast foes after one turn, while Ursaring needs to lose health every turn in order to outspeed SOME foes. Haxorus has OK speed from the start.

As for bellypassing, I usually use Smeargle. Spore + Bellypass works pretty well for me, what with the sleep mechanics.

Any Pokemon can be good at +6 (well, not every single Pokemon, but a VAST majority of Physical Attackers).

As for that list, I dont like conkeldurr because he is slower and I dont have the option to run quick feet. Also movepool issues.

Conkeldurr does not have the same purpose as Ursaring. Conkeldurr is a Bulky Physical Attacker, while Ursaring is an All-Out Attacker.

The rest of those are nice, but lacking the stab facade makes me iffy. Plus, as much as I like Guts, I dont like the idea of trading off the Normal type thing for Fighting. Its a personal preference thing, honestly. I like Ursaring more, and I never said he shouldnt be on the list, I just dont like that he is on there. ://

The lack of STAB Facade isn't much tbh. Gliscor can use it better (it does not lose any HP when being Poisoned), even if they don't have the same role.

If you really want an All-Out Attacker, you shouldn't be using Ursaring. That's all.

 

[Sebasti]

yes but at the same time hax doesnt have to give himself toxic to pull that off and he has almost perfect coverage in 2 moves (skarm being the only real counter).

I am aware. I use haxorus as well, I'm simply saying if speed is an issue, how is it that slower pokemon with worse movepools and/or less power can manage more?

Also jw, I'm a bit new to the scene but where does Fire/Earth fall short on? I guess Gyrados, but with smackdown its taken care of. Fire/Rock is tanked by heatran though. But EQ solves it.

I guess I get what yall are saying though. I personally like Ursaring, as I said, and I'm not saying he shouldnt be but I dont like that he is. He has an amazing movepool so 9/10 he won't even need facade to attack. That being said, anything that doesn't outright resist a STAB + Guts x2 facade will probably die by it.

Just me though, the topic looked dead so some discussion is nice. ://

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Ursaring's problems:

- Lacking bulk- 90 / 75 / 75 isn't really making the cut when you have no resistances to fall back on.
- Lacking Speed. 55 base Speed is awful, and even with Quick Feet, you still fail to outspeed: Terrakion, Virizion, Lati@s, anything Scarfed, Thundurus, Tornadus, Jolteon, etc. You're not sweeping anything any time soon with Quick Feet.
- Steels shit on it. It can't really deal with most of the Steel-types in OU (other than Ferrothorn) because most of them are neutral to Fighting (Bronzong, Metagross, Jirachi, Forretress, Skarmory). In addition, all of them except Forretress and Ferrothorn outspeed it, which hurts.
- It's outclassed. As a Guts sweeper, Conkeldurr wins. As a bulky normal-type attacker, Bouffalant wins. As a "fast" sweeper, pretty much everything wins. Why should I use Swords Dance Ursaring with Quick Feet when I can use Swords Dance Terrakion which is faster, stronger, has better STABs, has better defenses, and has ACTUAL resistances, and doesn't have to get Toxiced to do it.

 

[Sebasti]

Fair enough. I appreciate your ideals on the matter. I believe that he can be effective, especially when packing fire punch. Maybe he isnt made for OU, but I enjoy the diversity he brings. :)

 

[ToastTyrant13]

Well, not to be a wet blanket or anything, but I definetly feel that (sorry if this has been said) Donphan deserves to be off the list of uncompetitive pokemon (Most likely UU, but definetley deserves an OU analysis). It's functioned extremely well in UU before, while making a comeback by being able to function very well in OU. Why? Well, let's take a look.

• Donphan is one of several spin-blockers that can definetly benefit most teams while easily being able to fit on any team despite the playing style being used (bar Rain). Donphan fits on many Sandstorm teams due to its wonderful bulk and immunity to Sandstorm. Sun and Hail teams welcome Donphan with open arms because of its abilty to take heavy Rock type attacks, while ridding Stealth Rock from the field, that burden many Ice and Fire types; both of which are extremely common types on Hail and Sun teams respectively. Stall, while becoming a less used but efficient playstyle, loves Donphans ability to deal with speedy and destructive Dragons(and God knows how many of those are running around nowadays, especially with the freedom of Latias, Garchomp, and Salamence), Steel types, and entry hazards. One of the lesser used styles, Trick Room, can benefit from either the Tank, Rapid Spin, or Powerhouse aspects of Donphans respectable capabilities.
• Donphan, as a spinner, can easily benefit the trainer by easily dealing with many of its spinblocking rivals that wish to defy its assistance with Assurance, or even Earthquake in the event of a Chandelure. While being able to defeat many spinblockers, Donphan can keep its versatility as an afformentioned spinner.
• While other spinners may appear to outclass it at times, Donphan has the upperhand with wonderful bulk, great Attack, a nice movepool, including priority and a way to deal with Spinblockers, that spinners like Excadrill, Starmie, Forretress, and Hitmontop do not posses as a whole. All of them posses bits or pieces, but Donphan comes with the complete set.
• Outside of the defensive side of the spectrum, Donphan does very well as a heavy hitter. It has the bulk and power to easily run a Choice Band or Rock Polish set to wreck unprepared teams, as most are due to Donphans come-and-go appearences.
• Because of Donphans primary rolls as a supportive and tankish pokemon, his incredibly low Speed is often unnecesary and often overlooked because of it.

Now surely Donphan isn't perfect, but perfection and near-perfection are by-far impossible to obtain and maintain for any pokemon. While Donphan sports lackluster Special Defense, trainers can easily make up for it as they would their Garchomps weakness to status, phazers, hazers, and priority Ice Shards, or their Ferrothorns fighting weakness through the combination of a JelliThorn defensive combo. Surely, Donphans utility, bulk, power, typing, and movepoll allow it to be an extremely viable pokemon in higher tiers while encouraging new strategies and team assortments that would benefit both the OU, and more likely UU metagame in its entirety.

Edit:I'd be completly willing to write up his OU analysis if it matters (His UU analysis is being done by another user, and the differences between OU and UU in 5th Gen are bound to be infinite). Just for future reference.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Responses in bold.

• Donphan is one of several spin-blockers that can definetly benefit most teams while easily being able to fit on any team despite the playing style being used (bar Rain). Donphan fits on many Sandstorm teams due to its wonderful bulk and immunity to Sandstorm. Except the part where Hippowdon is bulkier, nearly as strong, gets Roar, and can serve as a secondary SS user, yeah sure (read: no). Sun and Hail teams welcome Donphan with open arms because of its abilty to take heavy Rock type attacks, while ridding Stealth Rock from the field, that burden many Ice and Fire types; both of which are extremely common types on Hail and Sun teams respectively. Point taken, but Hail is mediocre anyway and Sun has better things to do. Stall, while becoming a less used but efficient playstyle, loves Donphans ability to deal with speedy and destructive Dragons(and God knows how many of those are running around nowadays, especially with the freedom of Latias, Garchomp, and Salamence), Steel types, and entry hazards. Except where, you know, Ice Shard sucks. It does 31.9% - 37.9% to the least defensive Latias possible, and 62.8% - 74.9% to Salamence, the least bulky 4x weak (guaranteed failure to KO after SR, fun). Ice Shard is barely worth the moveslot. One of the lesser used styles, Trick Room, can benefit from either the Tank, Rapid Spin, or Powerhouse aspects of Donphans respectable capabilities. Since when does Trick Room have time to fuck around with things that don't disintegrate opponents just by staring at them?
• Donphan, as a spinner, can easily benefit the trainer by easily dealing with many of its spinblocking rivals that wish to defy its assistance with Assurance, or even Earthquake in the event of a Chandelure. While being able to defeat many spinblockers, Donphan can keep its versatility as an afformentioned spinner. Except where it's awful against Gengar and Jellicent, the two top spinblockers. It's also pretty bad against Eviolite Dusclops, which is VERY underrated.
• While other spinners may appear to outclass it at times, Donphan has the upperhand with wonderful bulk, great Attack, a nice movepool, including priority and a way to deal with Spinblockers, that spinners like Excadrill, Starmie, Forretress, and Hitmontop do not posses as a whole. All of them posses bits or pieces, but Donphan comes with the complete set. So it's mediocre at a lot of different things rather than being good at anything. No thanks.
• Outside of the defensive side of the spectrum, Donphan does very well as a heavy hitter. It has the bulk and power to easily run a Choice Band or Rock Polish set to wreck unprepared teams, as most are due to Donphans come-and-go appearences. Any team prepared to deal with Excadrill or Gliscor or Landorus or any other non-ass Ground-type (and they are prominent) is going to laugh at Donphan.
• Because of Donphans primary rolls as a supportive and tankish pokemon, his incredibly low Speed is often unnecesary and often overlooked because of it. Since when is low speed a plus? If anything, being a slow as balls Rapid Spinner is pretty bad in terms of being able to spin before being turned into a fine red Poke-mist.

Now surely Donphan isn't perfect, but perfection and near-perfection are by-far impossible to obtain and maintain for any pokemon. While Donphan sports lackluster Special Defense, trainers can easily make up for it as they would their Garchomps weakness to status, phazers, hazers, and priority Ice Shards Except you missed the part where Garchomp is a good Pokemon (and damn near as bulky as Donphan, I might add, or their Ferrothorns fighting weakness through the combination of a JelliThorn defensive combo. I fail to see how comparing Donphan to a rock-solid defensive combo points in its favor. Surely, Donphans utility other mons spin better, bulk Gliscor walls better, as does Hippowdon, power Garchomp and Landorus hit harder by far, typing mono-ground is nothing special, and movepool generic uninteresting movepool, just eq and a coverage move allow it to be an extremely viable pokemon in higher tiers while encouraging new strategies and team assortments that would benefit both the OU, and more likely UU metagame in its entirety.

Donphan is extremely underwhelming, and it's basically outclassed at everything. It's a mediocre spinner, and its selling points just don't work.

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

Hippowdon also has instant recovery.

Donphan has some cool characteristics, but it's movepool is so grounded it can't do anything to a lot of bulkier Pokemon.

 

[Sebasti]

I wouldn't mind donphan if it werent for his 3 weaknesses being common and his 3 resistances being not-as-common. Sandslash, as far as dreamworld goes, at least gets sand rush. Gives it a certain niche as a fast spinner with only slightly worse bulk than donphan.

But to sum it up, I dont think, personally, that Donphan has anything about it that the faster two sand rushers dont give. I mean if you can get tyran or hippo out.

Even if you can't, Exca and slash are both faster. Slash has slightly less bulk but a considerable amount more speed when sandstorm is out, and exca is just naturally more defensive on its typing (its bulk is meh) and with sandstorm you can either go to 550-604 speed off the bat (If you EV speed, which is what I assume one might do with exca's 110/60/65), or you can simply be faster than quite a few with a decent 88 base and get 33% more power in your EQ.

 

[ParaChomp]

Hippowdon also has instant recovery.

Donphan has some cool characteristics, but it's movepool is so grounded it can't do anything to a lot of bulkier Pokemon.

Was that a pun?

I wouldn't mind donphan if it werent for his 3 weaknesses being common and his 3 resistances being not-as-common. Sandslash, as far as dreamworld goes, at least gets sand rush. Gives it a certain niche as a fast spinner with only slightly worse bulk than donphan.

But to sum it up, I dont think, personally, that Donphan has anything about it that the faster two sand rushers dont give. I mean if you can get tyran or hippo out.

Even if you can't, Exca and slash are both faster. Slash has slightly less bulk but a considerable amount more speed when sandstorm is out, and exca is just naturally more defensive on its typing (its bulk is meh) and with sandstorm you can either go to 550-604 speed off the bat (If you EV speed, which is what I assume one might do with exca's 110/60/65), or you can simply be faster than quite a few with a decent 88 base and get 33% more power in your EQ.

Excadrill, that's why Sandslash doesn't deserve an analysis.

 

[Sebasti]

Excadrill, that's why Sandslash doesn't deserve an analysis.

I never said he does, I was just saying, in donphans case, when your niche as a spinner is better served by a sandslash... you prob need to find a new niche.

 

[ParaChomp]

I never said he does, I was just saying, in donphans case, when your niche as a spinner is better served by a sandslash... you prob need to find a new niche.

No mean to put you down but...Excadrill learns Rapid Spin as well.

None the less, you and many others see weak Pokemon as useful. Bet you'll do well with the UU and NU analysis.

 

[Sebasti]

No mean to put you down but...Excadrill learns Rapid Spin as well.

None the less, you and many others see weak Pokemon as useful. Bet you'll do well with the UU and NU analysis.

I dont think you grasp what I'm saying. I'm aware of excadrill and its existance as well as its ability.

I'm not talking about excadrill. Reread what I said please, and note it says "In donphans case". I know how well excadrill does. I know its skills.

Donphan is heavily outclassed by exca, however I'm saying if your beaten out by sandslash of all pokemon, then you need a new niche.

 

[GtM]

No mean to put you down but...Excadrill learns Rapid Spin as well.

None the less, you and many others see weak Pokemon as useful. Bet you'll do well with the UU and NU analysis.

You've completely missed the point. He's stating that Sandslash is completely inferior to Excadrill, yet it /still/ does a better job at Spinning that Donphan.