*Note: The title says which pokemon has had the most effect on the OU metagame.
I would have to say Salamence. He essentially shaped it into what it is, even though he isn't there.
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What Pokemon has had the most effect on the OU metagame?
- Thread starter manav95
- Start date
*Note: The title says which pokemon has had the most effect on the OU metagame.
I would have to say Salamence. He essentially shaped it into what it is, even though he isn't there.
hmm hard. Blissey make gen 4 phys based ? nope. Every gen has just too powerful physical attack and booster like sword dance and the imbalanced dragon dance. Physical is also more reliable. My vote will actualy go for latias but in this case, i choose Scizor.
Remember the early DP where many poke running rampant(yeah im talking about you cresselia,Heracorss,Weavile) ? Scizor stops most of them and forcing them to drop in tier. Thats just a testament of how he affect the metagame forcing a "shift" on the game.
Remember the early DP where many poke running rampant(yeah im talking about you cresselia,Heracorss,Weavile) ? Scizor stops most of them and forcing them to drop in tier. Thats just a testament of how he affect the metagame forcing a "shift" on the game.
For the current metagame, I would argue that Gyarados is now the defining pokemon. It is the reason that every team has multiple electric attacks, and now without Mence, it is the primary target of Stealth Rock. Its new role as the most feared set up sweeper is the reason why HP electric has gone from 44% to 51% on Suicune in just two months. It is a near perfect counter to the two most used pokemon in the metagame, and is a real threat in its own right with arguably the best set up move, a great STAB, awesome attack, and surprising bulk.
As for the metagame throughout history, I would have to say Blissey. It is the reason why fighting is considered a good attacking type. Also, most physical attackers can overcome their respective walls by having the right attack (ice punch for Gliscor, Crunch for Rotom-A, etc.), while special attackers must resort to Explosion (a physical attack) or more indirect means (like Sub/Pain Split) to take down Blissey. Modest Adaptability Porygon-z needs Nasty Plot, Stealth Rock, and at least two layers of Spikes to guarantee an OHKO with the near suicidal Hyper Beam, and Heatran needs Specs, Flash Fire, Sun, Overheat, and Stealth Rock to OHKO the standard Blissey. Blissey is also the primary target of otherwise borderline tactics like Banded Pursuits or TrickScarves (outside the lead position).
As for the metagame throughout history, I would have to say Blissey. It is the reason why fighting is considered a good attacking type. Also, most physical attackers can overcome their respective walls by having the right attack (ice punch for Gliscor, Crunch for Rotom-A, etc.), while special attackers must resort to Explosion (a physical attack) or more indirect means (like Sub/Pain Split) to take down Blissey. Modest Adaptability Porygon-z needs Nasty Plot, Stealth Rock, and at least two layers of Spikes to guarantee an OHKO with the near suicidal Hyper Beam, and Heatran needs Specs, Flash Fire, Sun, Overheat, and Stealth Rock to OHKO the standard Blissey. Blissey is also the primary target of otherwise borderline tactics like Banded Pursuits or TrickScarves (outside the lead position).
Garchomp was our first OU-to-Uber and a shining beacon of the "no counters" movement that followed. Taking into account personal experience, playing against it was nothing short of bullshit. Getting rid of it was probably the single most liberating moment moment for the OU metagame.
Latias created the Scarftar/Blissey/Scizor orgy. That level of centralization speaks for itself.
Salamence had every right to be banned, but I don't think it had anywhere near as large of an impact as the other two, since it didn't necessarily force anyone to wander astray from their usual strategies. Swampert and Scizor were about the best we could do without stretching ourselves thin and people began to accept the fact that it was going to be hard to deal with no matter what they did.
Right now? Uh...nothing. Heatran is at the top because it's one of the only two viable users of a STAB we really need in the OU metagame, on top of being really bulky and having good resistances. Like Scizor, he's at the top for being incredibly useful, but with very minimal centralization following. That's perfectly acceptable, as far as I'm concerned.
This is about as balanced as 4th gen is going to get, and I'm glad we've finally reached a level of stability where we can focus more on strategy than threats. UU is about the same way right now, but I have a feeling that the upcoming Heracross insurgence will curbstomp that balance and grind it into a fine dust.
Latias created the Scarftar/Blissey/Scizor orgy. That level of centralization speaks for itself.
Salamence had every right to be banned, but I don't think it had anywhere near as large of an impact as the other two, since it didn't necessarily force anyone to wander astray from their usual strategies. Swampert and Scizor were about the best we could do without stretching ourselves thin and people began to accept the fact that it was going to be hard to deal with no matter what they did.
Right now? Uh...nothing. Heatran is at the top because it's one of the only two viable users of a STAB we really need in the OU metagame, on top of being really bulky and having good resistances. Like Scizor, he's at the top for being incredibly useful, but with very minimal centralization following. That's perfectly acceptable, as far as I'm concerned.
This is about as balanced as 4th gen is going to get, and I'm glad we've finally reached a level of stability where we can focus more on strategy than threats. UU is about the same way right now, but I have a feeling that the upcoming Heracross insurgence will curbstomp that balance and grind it into a fine dust.
Blissey first. It singlehandedly stops pretty much all special attackers,even those with nasty plot, which no physical wall can do against physical attackers.
Second would come the dragons (mainly mence and latias if we're talking about OU, since they were allowed the most, but chomp too), which caused the highly dragon and steel centric metagame.
Second would come the dragons (mainly mence and latias if we're talking about OU, since they were allowed the most, but chomp too), which caused the highly dragon and steel centric metagame.
I wanted to vote for Scizor, and while it did change the metagame, I believe Rotom-A was among the biggest game changers. There's hardly any rapid spinners anymore because he's such an amazing spin blocker, so now people can abuse several layers of spikes and toxic spikes without worrying about Starmie or Forretress coming in to spin them away.
Blissey the pink blob stops every special attacker. this is why special sweeping is inferior and the metagame is based arround physical sweeping looking at the usage stats every top 15 pokemon except starmie and rotom got a way to beat that fat bitch and these ways are used very often(explosion on heatran, sub split gengar and everything else is physical or mixed) wich shows how the metagame centralizes around blissey.
Garchomp. I remember the Garchomp discussions, those were the days.
Then I decided that I was going to build a SS team with Garchomp to abuse the hell out of it before it was banned.
Alas, that day was the day it got moved up to Uber.
Then I decided that I was going to build a SS team with Garchomp to abuse the hell out of it before it was banned.
Alas, that day was the day it got moved up to Uber.
Blissey has had the most effect on the OU metagame because she has affected the usage of more Pokemon than any other (Alakazam, Raikou, Porygon-Z, Jolteon, etc would wreck shit without Blissey and have much higher usage), while physical sweepers have no doubtedly been so prevalent because of the void left by the lack of special sweepers, and the ability to get through Blissey.
Rotom-a, and no other pokemon on the list even comes close imo. Rotom-a essentially allows stall and spikes offense to exist. In addition to being an amazing physical wall, it also spin blocks, making it great for sub-charge sets and the like. Rotom-a is fantastic in every role it fills, as trick makes its choice sets threatening.
Sorry.
Fuk dragons, my vote goes to Blissey. The sole reason the metagame is physically based. When (more likely, if) you are using a special attacker, what's probably going to go through your head is "what am I going to do so I don't get cockblocked by Blissey?
Honorable mentions go to Mence and Chomp, like everyone else said.
Voted Scizor, mainly because I didn't want to vote Other, because other things have conters that will always be there, regardless of whether they're around or not. For example, Bulky Waters would stick around even if things like Dragonite, Heatran, and Infernape dissappeared. Scizor was also basically the final nail in the coffin for Pokemon like Alakazam, Weavile, and Azelf (outside of leads) because it countered them in a way that not even things like Tyranitar and Spiritomb (for the Psychics) and Metagross and Bronzong (for Weavile) could duplicate.
Edit: Also, Azelf and Alakazam could atleast get an HP Fighting or Focus Blast off on Tyranitar before getting Pursuited but Scizor's Bullet Punch negates their high speed. Fighting is also a much better coverage type for Psychic than Fire since it hits Dark-types that are immune to their STAB.
If they had been up there in a place other than Other, I would have probably voted for Latias, Salamence, or Deoxys-S. I wasn't around at the time Garchomp was allowed so I don't really know how centralizing it was.
Edit: Also, Azelf and Alakazam could atleast get an HP Fighting or Focus Blast off on Tyranitar before getting Pursuited but Scizor's Bullet Punch negates their high speed. Fighting is also a much better coverage type for Psychic than Fire since it hits Dark-types that are immune to their STAB.
If they had been up there in a place other than Other, I would have probably voted for Latias, Salamence, or Deoxys-S. I wasn't around at the time Garchomp was allowed so I don't really know how centralizing it was.
If your main problem with using Weavile is Scizor, you must be too focused on trying to make that crappy SD set work. Between CB Pursuits, Ice Punches, and Low Kicks, Scizor isn't going to make Weavile any less effective at its job. Gengar, Rotom, and others still die to Pursuit before it gets in, it still takes massive damage from Low Kick, and it has so many hard counters, plus a trapper, that I'm surprised people are complaining about this at all.
Blissey easily. Like many others have said she completely ruins special attackers. I didnt see this mentioned but she is often the main target of toxic spikes (second is probably vaporeon). Without her roserade and tentacreul would probably fall to bl/uu, and forteress might get completly replaced by skarm.
Garchomp is without a doubt second. I started playing competively when he was ou and even though i was a noob i could see the damage he caused to the metagame. But if were talking about pokes that are in ou now my vote goes to ttar or scizor. Heatran doesnt centralize IMO, and neither does gyrados.
Garchomp is without a doubt second. I started playing competively when he was ou and even though i was a noob i could see the damage he caused to the metagame. But if were talking about pokes that are in ou now my vote goes to ttar or scizor. Heatran doesnt centralize IMO, and neither does gyrados.
Not sure if troll
Anyways, I'd have to say Rotom-A. Not only is a defining part of present-day stall, but unlike the suspects, it was tossed into an already-developed DP metagame, and shook it to it's core. The introduction of Rotom-A changed so many things, including dooming Spiritomb and Dusknoir, increasing the popularity and effectiveness of stall, and in general the bane of many of the metagame's top threats.
Although, the sheer controversy very early in DP over Garchomp is definitely worth noting
Personally, I don't think this is the right question to be asking. The question seems to be which pokemon gave people the most trouble and was the biggest threat you needed to gameplan around during Generation 4. If I had to answer that question, my answer would be Latias. The problem with that question is during the majority of Generation 4, we were dealing with pokemon that were determined to be too powerful for the metagame and sent to ubers. I think the more important question to ask is, now that we know there are certain uber pokemon that we should never have had to gameplan around in the first place, which pokemon HAS the most effect on the metagame. That question certainly seems less interesting with Generation 5 right around the corner, but IMO it doesn't matter which broken pokemon that took too long to ban had the most effect on the metagame. Banning pokemon is better late than never, but I don't see any reason to look back at those broken pokemon just for the sake of being in awe of how broken they were. That's just my opinion though.
tl;dr: Infernape.
Plenty of Pokemon have had major effects on the OU metagame. My opinion is that the two biggest ones have been Infernape and Tyranitar. (Scizor, Garchomp, Salamence, Latias and Metagross gets special mention too.)
Infernape is so dangerous to stall and balanced teams that Tentacruel is OU. Nasty Plot Infernape has a list of counters you can count on one hand: Tentacruel (who is vulnerable to the SD set), Vaporeon (also vulnerable to the SD set), Latias (now Uber, and HP [Ice] could still dent it) and Cresselia (oh hai Scizor/Tyranitar/Gengar/etc). The only other sweeper which comes close to devastating teams this badly is Lucario, which actually has definite counters (Gyarados, for one).
Tyranitar is the reason Cresselia is useless, Rain teams are banished to UU, and Latias was OU for even a millisecond. The sandstorm it brings wrecks stall and setup sweepers, breaking sashes and turning 2HKOs into OHKOs. People continue to waste his power by using ScarfTar (because Starmie and Gengar are so threatening to Mister 150 Base SpD), but I won't begrudge them that. It means actually threatening sets can sweep, like DD or Tyraniboah.
Plenty of Pokemon have had major effects on the OU metagame. My opinion is that the two biggest ones have been Infernape and Tyranitar. (Scizor, Garchomp, Salamence, Latias and Metagross gets special mention too.)
Infernape is so dangerous to stall and balanced teams that Tentacruel is OU. Nasty Plot Infernape has a list of counters you can count on one hand: Tentacruel (who is vulnerable to the SD set), Vaporeon (also vulnerable to the SD set), Latias (now Uber, and HP [Ice] could still dent it) and Cresselia (oh hai Scizor/Tyranitar/Gengar/etc). The only other sweeper which comes close to devastating teams this badly is Lucario, which actually has definite counters (Gyarados, for one).
Tyranitar is the reason Cresselia is useless, Rain teams are banished to UU, and Latias was OU for even a millisecond. The sandstorm it brings wrecks stall and setup sweepers, breaking sashes and turning 2HKOs into OHKOs. People continue to waste his power by using ScarfTar (because Starmie and Gengar are so threatening to Mister 150 Base SpD), but I won't begrudge them that. It means actually threatening sets can sweep, like DD or Tyraniboah.
My vote is other. Specifically Latias. Over the years, the metagame has changed significantly. At one point, Garchomp had the most effect, down the road it was others like Scizor and that dragon, Salamence. Now, Heatran is having the most effect. I think Latias has had the greatest overall effect because of it's blazing speed, numerous resistances, could check much of the metagame.
Pokes like salamence who shaped the entire meta should be. Things that were banned forever ago like deo-s should not count, but recently banned things like the dragons should.
Because of how overpowered Latias and Salamence were, didn't someone make a team of 3 steels and 3 dragons that got to number 1 on the leaderboard or something?