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What Pokemon has had the most effect on the OU metagame?
- Thread starter manav95
- Start date
Id say Scizor, its high power and ability allowed him to take down a lot of pokes using a CB bullet punch, either making you fodder that poke or forcing a switch to someone who resists it, dealing meanwhile with stealth rock damage and a 130 Base attack CB bullet punch. That made Heatran, Rotom and Gyarados rise in ussage, made a lot of pokes run HP fire like shaymin, celebi, gengar, roserade, cresselia, magnezone, made a lot of EV spread changes just to resist a bullet punch, like hp fire gengars who were trained just so they could survive one of those and OHKO back with an HP fire.
Plus not to mention that almost everyone now carries a scizor counter like gyara or heatran making scizor impossible to sweep.
Plus not to mention that almost everyone now carries a scizor counter like gyara or heatran making scizor impossible to sweep.
Wow I am shocked that gengar hasn't been picked, and dragonite shares the same votes as starmie. Then again I thought heatran would have more too.
Suicune and Jirachi say hi.
Also, you meant "no other Pokemon makes half the spectrum unviable."
What you have written now is accurate, though.
Hmm. Scizor made it if you had no way of beating it, you were UU, or about to be. Salamance and Latias made the whole SKARMORY SCIZOR HEATRAN EVERY TEAM craze, but Jirachi and Flygon showed how powerful a good u-turn can be, and showed how much a bug weak will hurt.
For me it's Blissey, no other Pokemon can shut down half of the attacking spectrum singlehandedly. Gargantuan HP/Immense SpD/reliable healing = for special attackers, it means no hope of breaking down the pink blob anytime soon.
I believe it is Blissey... her physical wall counterpart Skarmory is only HALF the physical walling prowess of Blissey's special walling prowess. Physical Attackers naturally are more popular.
Either Scizor or Blissey, Scizor for making bulky sweepers more popular (Heatran, Rotom-A) and Blissey for completely walling half of the metagame without much effort.
Skarmory doesn't compare to Blissey in the slightest these days. Blissey also has the annoying caveat of taking things like STAB physical attacks (Like earthquake) and using it as a chance to status/heal. In so many cases a decent physical attacker using its main stab is like a 3hko. I wish gamefreak would retcon its stats already.
I would say Blissey...but it has been a constant since Gen 2, meaning that its effect on the metagame began since then. Honestly, every single set-up SpA needs to have a way around Blissey or it can't really be expected to shine - Crocune, the various SubCM sets, and Infernape's Fighting type are what make them viable, IMO.
For 4th gen specifically...I would probably have to say Rotom-A. Scizor is cool but all it is really doing is spamming CB STAB U-turn. The introduction of Rotom provided a more offensive check to Gyara, a superior spinblocker for Stall, Offense, and Balance alike, a potent setup sweeper with the subcharge set...the list goes on. It really can carve out a niche for itself in almost every case.
For 4th gen specifically...I would probably have to say Rotom-A. Scizor is cool but all it is really doing is spamming CB STAB U-turn. The introduction of Rotom provided a more offensive check to Gyara, a superior spinblocker for Stall, Offense, and Balance alike, a potent setup sweeper with the subcharge set...the list goes on. It really can carve out a niche for itself in almost every case.
While Blissey is a big part of special attackers being way less viable than physical attackers, it's not the ONLY reason. Swords Dance has MUCH better distribution than Nasty Plot, and while physical sweepers get Dragon Dance, special sweepers get...Calm Mind. That means that special sweepers don't become nearly as threatening as physical sweepers do after one turn to set up. On top of that, the only special priority move is Vacuum Wave, meaning special sweepers can't pull any of Scizor's Swords Danced Bullet Punch shenanigans. Finally, look at the most powerful physical moves compared to the most powerful special moves. Physical sweepers get Close Combat, Outrage, Flare Blitz, Earthquake, and Brave Bird. Special sweepers get Draco Meteor, Overheat, Fire Blast, Hydro Pump, Focus Blast, and then you're down to stuff like Surf and Thunderbolt (and there's stuff with really poor distribution like Eruption and Water Spout). The special moves either have less base power or some serious drawback; Focus Blast has 70% accuracy, Draco Meteor and Overheat cut special attack by two levels (and they only have 90% accuracy). The drawbacks of Close Combat and Outrage don't prevent things from taking out a dedicated physical wall; Lucario can set up Swords Dance and 2HKO Skarmory with Close Combat. In comparison, if Azelf DOES manage to get to +2 and tries to take on Blissey with Focus Blast, it's facing a 51% chance of a miss one of those two times. The only specially based sweeper who really had the bulk and the speed to get up to +2 reliably was Manaphy, and even with its godawful movepool, it was declared Uber. Physical sweepers can either get up to +2 Atk or +1 Atk/+1 Speed all the time, because stuff like Tyranitar, Dragonite, Gyarados, and Scizor have both the bulk and the moves to get away with it. So while Blissey may be the nail in the coffin for any Pokemon that attempts to sweep from the special side, the truth is that specially-based sweepers have a lot of disadvantages to begin with; they don't boost their speed, their moves aren't as powerful, and most of them can't get near sweeping range in one turn, even against a weakened team. What Blissey does is makes it so that we don't even have to worry about prediction or choosing from a handful of counters that the Pokemon could be designed to beat whenever something threatens to sweep from the special side (which we obviously do from the physical side; sure, I can switch in Rotom-A against Lucario, but it will Crunch?). We just pick the same pink blob against almost everything.
People, I'm going to have to say Blissey. She's been a threat to happy-go-lucky teams since the second generation, she walls Latias and Espeon and any generic Special Attacker, and blah blah yes forces people to make a counter or pivot for her. She's one of the few reasons why specially based Rain Teams in my experience can't be immediately threatening, especially when you're running Life Orb Ludicolo and Kingdra.
I'd have to say Blissey. She can wall pretty much any special sweeper, with the exception of sets like Subsplit Gengar created specifically for the purpose of countering her, and is partly responsible for the huge usage of Lucario and Infernape. Without those two and their STAB Close Combat it'd be a lot tougher getting rid of Blissey. Of course there are other ways round her, but if you're not prepared then you'll end up being walled to oblivion.
Heatran's quite a crucial mon as well, as everyone has to be cautious when using Fire moves in case it ends up receiving a Flash Fire boost and potentially sweeping teams. Team with the likes of Scizor it can be incredibly irritating to take down.
A more recent one would be Machamp, which has changed the way everyone leads off. Whereas before you could just get your SR up no problem, now you have to hope your opponent won't plough through your team with a completely accurate attack that always confuses. Azelf might still be the top lead, but the old Focus Sash set just isn't gonna cut it against this beast, it's Colbur all the way from now on!
Heatran's quite a crucial mon as well, as everyone has to be cautious when using Fire moves in case it ends up receiving a Flash Fire boost and potentially sweeping teams. Team with the likes of Scizor it can be incredibly irritating to take down.
A more recent one would be Machamp, which has changed the way everyone leads off. Whereas before you could just get your SR up no problem, now you have to hope your opponent won't plough through your team with a completely accurate attack that always confuses. Azelf might still be the top lead, but the old Focus Sash set just isn't gonna cut it against this beast, it's Colbur all the way from now on!
BurningMan
fueled by beer
@vaporeononIce
dont forget physical sweepers got will o wisp and intimidate to fight with and the special attackers got more reliable and drawback free moves like surf,t-bolt,ice beam etc. that get useful secondary effects the only problem is that the high BP moves suffer from bad accurary.
But your right nasty plot gets bad distribution and its useres are all frail however there are many pokemon swords dance that cant make use out of it too.
Calm Mind isnt bad too it allows for a bulky sweep that allows you too actually take an attack and ko or 2hko back and there are lots of pokemon that get it.
I dont completly disagree with you i just wanted to add that.
dont forget physical sweepers got will o wisp and intimidate to fight with and the special attackers got more reliable and drawback free moves like surf,t-bolt,ice beam etc. that get useful secondary effects the only problem is that the high BP moves suffer from bad accurary.
But your right nasty plot gets bad distribution and its useres are all frail however there are many pokemon swords dance that cant make use out of it too.
Calm Mind isnt bad too it allows for a bulky sweep that allows you too actually take an attack and ko or 2hko back and there are lots of pokemon that get it.
I dont completly disagree with you i just wanted to add that.
Salamence. For the most part of the DPPt metagame, it was present, and as such, should be included in your list thingy. A DD+Lum set absolutely wrecked everything once checks like scarfgon scarfmie, etc. where gone. Nothing could accurately wall it, just check it.
I think Scizor does. I mean, he brought down Cress, one of the stars of OU, practically by himself.
All the dragons. They just make (or made, when they were OU) the metagame centralized around steel Pokémon.
Out of this list? Tyranitar. He singlehandedly kills weather teams and Synthesis/Morning Sun/Moonlight users. Along with SR, he's pretty much the reason why defensive Fire typing is lol.
Out of the entire list? Blissey. Hi Raikou you have Calm Mind, well allocated stats, and great offensive typing, so why are you BL? Oh that pink blob...
Out of the entire list? Blissey. Hi Raikou you have Calm Mind, well allocated stats, and great offensive typing, so why are you BL? Oh that pink blob...
Raikou is also weak to EQ. Considering that Suicune is OU and has very similar stats and movepool, but different typing, it's less about the Pokemon and more about the typing in the electric tiger's case.
Garchomp, Salamence and Latias completely changed the metagame in DPP. Garchomp was... Garchomp. I've played on servers where it's not banned, and my entire team idea was:
Jolly ScarfChomp
DD Babiritar
SD/Agility Scizor
And that will own about everything with Sandstorm for Garchomp and Scizor to take all the Ice-type attacks that come your way. Garchomp was practically unstoppable in almost all of it's rolls. You basically had to lock it onto Outrage to prevent switching and then revenge kill it with Weavile/Mamoswine, so you're already sacking one Pokemon to get them in for free since they can't take this hit. Even then, 100% counters are 80% counters in the sand (Yes, I just said that).
Latias had massive Special Attack, along with Draco Meteor, Surf and Thunderbolt. Enough said.
Salamence was lethal. After a Dragon Dance, it out-speed much of the metagame. It took a lot of skill to defeat a set-up DDMence. MixMence also had that ability to crack open stall, but it was the New MixMence, that basically killed you if you made one wrong prediction, that broke Salamence through and through.
But in terms of Pokemon that are still in OU, I'd have to say Tyrannitar. He single-handedly nerfed all Dark-weak Pokemon in existence. He's just so powerful and bulky.
Jolly ScarfChomp
DD Babiritar
SD/Agility Scizor
And that will own about everything with Sandstorm for Garchomp and Scizor to take all the Ice-type attacks that come your way. Garchomp was practically unstoppable in almost all of it's rolls. You basically had to lock it onto Outrage to prevent switching and then revenge kill it with Weavile/Mamoswine, so you're already sacking one Pokemon to get them in for free since they can't take this hit. Even then, 100% counters are 80% counters in the sand (Yes, I just said that).
Latias had massive Special Attack, along with Draco Meteor, Surf and Thunderbolt. Enough said.
Salamence was lethal. After a Dragon Dance, it out-speed much of the metagame. It took a lot of skill to defeat a set-up DDMence. MixMence also had that ability to crack open stall, but it was the New MixMence, that basically killed you if you made one wrong prediction, that broke Salamence through and through.
But in terms of Pokemon that are still in OU, I'd have to say Tyrannitar. He single-handedly nerfed all Dark-weak Pokemon in existence. He's just so powerful and bulky.
