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Whimsicott
- Thread starter Manaphy
- Start date
You would want to put in speed EVs though, otherwise Tornadus/Thundurus can outspeed you with priority Taunt
That's worth considering, but people don't do it often because Whimsicott revolves around Prankster to mess up opponents with status before they attack.
Just wondering, why would you use both taunt and encore on Whimsicott?
^There are times when it could be useful, but i personally find taunt to be more of a deterrent that doesn't even have to be in your moveset. Nothing will ever try to set up on whimsicott*; you're always going to taunt into an attack or a switch-in. It's like how you don't actually need to have pursuit on weavile because no ghost or psychic will ever switch out of it.
*this statement doesn't take noobs into consideration
*this statement doesn't take noobs into consideration
Noobs would just attack it with Hyper Beam.
If shadow tag doesn't get banned, god help this poor pokemon...
Nope. I once ran into this situation myself- If you sub as Chandy comes in (which you likely will), you can outstall them quite easily.
Taunt is useful as an anti-lead move. Encoring a Spikes isn't realy going to phase them that much, if at all. Sure, if you see a lead Whim, you're probably going to assume it has taunt and switch out, but hay, you just forced a switch and prevented a set-up. Encore is still the superior option, but don't underestimate the taunt.
I have to say, for the evil. I ran a Whimsicott on one of my VGC teams, and I would Encore their Trick Roomer, forcing them to TR a second time canceling out Trick Room. Then they'd go to use it again next turn and I would Taunt. They either switch out or Struggle (and since you only use 4 Pokemon in the VGC, if the Trick Roomer comes out later....).
U-turn is just as necessary as encore and leech seed imo...it's that fourth move that's a massive wild card and it's a rotating door even for me. Cotton Guard is a great move because it allows you to outstall additional pokemon, however Whimsicott really doesn't want to stay in due to the ridiculous amount of hard counters it has (this is why i really don't understand why people insist on subseeding). What you want as your 4th move is something that can help you break those hard counters (although u-turn pretty much handles that by itself).
That's why i'm a pretty big supporter of worry seed. It allows you to beat Reuniclus and Breloom (two of whimsicott's 100% counters) and some gliscors, and weather sweepers are practically rendered useless if they try to switch in. They must switch out or die, which supports what whimsicott is best at. The downside to worry seed is that it is very situational, but the 4th move is basically filler so it never feels like you're wasting a moveslot while you have it.
Stun Spore would easily be the best move for the fourth slot, but its accuracy is very frustrating and the last thing Whimsicott wants to do is waste a turn. Also, paralysis can mess with encore, because if a pokemon is fully paralyzed on the turn that encore ends, encore will fail on the next turn (this isn't that important though, because you should never see encore actually end; you'll either u-turn to something that can kill the encored poke, or your opponent would have switched).
Like worry seed, tailwind is another underrated move on Whimsicott. Like I said earlier, the plethora of Whimsicott's hard counters are dealt with by using u-turn, so a move that supports the rest of your team is a great idea to slap on it. Tailwind is an excellent move because the pokemon that make great partners to whimsicott are bulky with middling speed and great offenses (heatran is a perfect example).
But, yeah. I'll just summarize before I get into tl;dr levels. Encore/Leech Seed/U-Turn/whatever. Cotton Guard: Good, but not the best choice.
That's why i'm a pretty big supporter of worry seed. It allows you to beat Reuniclus and Breloom (two of whimsicott's 100% counters) and some gliscors, and weather sweepers are practically rendered useless if they try to switch in. They must switch out or die, which supports what whimsicott is best at. The downside to worry seed is that it is very situational, but the 4th move is basically filler so it never feels like you're wasting a moveslot while you have it.
Stun Spore would easily be the best move for the fourth slot, but its accuracy is very frustrating and the last thing Whimsicott wants to do is waste a turn. Also, paralysis can mess with encore, because if a pokemon is fully paralyzed on the turn that encore ends, encore will fail on the next turn (this isn't that important though, because you should never see encore actually end; you'll either u-turn to something that can kill the encored poke, or your opponent would have switched).
Like worry seed, tailwind is another underrated move on Whimsicott. Like I said earlier, the plethora of Whimsicott's hard counters are dealt with by using u-turn, so a move that supports the rest of your team is a great idea to slap on it. Tailwind is an excellent move because the pokemon that make great partners to whimsicott are bulky with middling speed and great offenses (heatran is a perfect example).
But, yeah. I'll just summarize before I get into tl;dr levels. Encore/Leech Seed/U-Turn/whatever. Cotton Guard: Good, but not the best choice.
I'm by no means a serious player, but I've been using Eject Button on Whimsicott--it's like auto U-Turn that's guaranteed to go after their hit.
The idea is that Whimsicott only wants to stay in against things it can Encore. This allows me, once-per-game, an auto-switch to the counter of my choice following a Leech Seed. If they switch first and Whimsicott can still safely take the hit, you get another support move of your choice for free as well.
Since the incoming guy cannot be attacked, this allows a lot of flexibility: Swapping to a defensive guy with an active Leech Seed in play puts them in a very strong position, and swapping to a frail offensive guy let's them act as a revenge killer despite no one dying.
Leftovers is nice on Whimsicott in best case usage, but this guy is more of a tool for the team--it's nice for tools to have broader applicability. It's also a help in item clause, where surely you have a higher priority defensive team member who needs Leftovers.
Edit: Obviously, this primarily benefits lead/revenge usage. It makes swapping in on predicted setups risky, if and only if you would have preferred to stay in and Leech Seed on a damaging move. In most cases, if you swap Whimsicott in and the opponent predicted it (didn't try to setup), you've already lost that fight and don't want to be there. At worst, this lets Whimsicott serve as a pivot twice.
The idea is that Whimsicott only wants to stay in against things it can Encore. This allows me, once-per-game, an auto-switch to the counter of my choice following a Leech Seed. If they switch first and Whimsicott can still safely take the hit, you get another support move of your choice for free as well.
Since the incoming guy cannot be attacked, this allows a lot of flexibility: Swapping to a defensive guy with an active Leech Seed in play puts them in a very strong position, and swapping to a frail offensive guy let's them act as a revenge killer despite no one dying.
Leftovers is nice on Whimsicott in best case usage, but this guy is more of a tool for the team--it's nice for tools to have broader applicability. It's also a help in item clause, where surely you have a higher priority defensive team member who needs Leftovers.
Edit: Obviously, this primarily benefits lead/revenge usage. It makes swapping in on predicted setups risky, if and only if you would have preferred to stay in and Leech Seed on a damaging move. In most cases, if you swap Whimsicott in and the opponent predicted it (didn't try to setup), you've already lost that fight and don't want to be there. At worst, this lets Whimsicott serve as a pivot twice.
Whatever.
Because its so stupid to setup on a Whimsicott sometimes they predict a switch and seed you and bam, free setup. Other times it backfires.
Same thing that happens with pursuiting, you see a Weavile come in to presumably pursuit you, but because the pursuit is so obvious they go for another move letting you escape. Or you get pursuited.
In each case its a matter of weighting up the pros and cons of each decision. If getting SR down would cripple their Volcorona it might be worth trying it against a Whimsicott.
Either way bluffing moves only gets you so far, if Ferrothorn sees your only anti-setup move is Encore he is going to start laying Spikes immediately.
Haven't read the rest of the topic, but just gonna say, I'm loving my Whimsicott/Wobbuffet team right now. Whimsicott's running max. SpA/Spe with a moveset of Leech Seed/Taunt/Encore/Giga Drain and holding a Sash. It tends to be the lead if I assume they'll go for a setup lead, and more often than not, it just switches in on something as it'll set up. Priority Encore is a beautiful thing, and Wobbuffet on the team means that it's useful even if it's about to die (say, entry hazards to prevent the Sash if it's not leading). Add in the fact that the only common Grass types around all want to setup, so even if they switch it on a Leech Seed, you can usually Taunt, then switch in a counter. Even if Whimsi dies, Wobba comes in and it's an easy revenge kill. (And if it's Ferrothorn, it's Taunt and then bring in a Steel-type to setup.)
(Note: The max SpA and Sash? Was gonna go with a Lefties set, but I was looking to cover the whole of OU with my team, and I was missing coverage on SWAMPERT. So yeah, Giga Drain is go.)
Idly, to say about setting up on Whimsi, the idea isn't to stop them setting up on Whimsi, it's to switch Whimsi in as they set up, then Encore it and bring in a phazer.
(Note: The max SpA and Sash? Was gonna go with a Lefties set, but I was looking to cover the whole of OU with my team, and I was missing coverage on SWAMPERT. So yeah, Giga Drain is go.)
Idly, to say about setting up on Whimsi, the idea isn't to stop them setting up on Whimsi, it's to switch Whimsi in as they set up, then Encore it and bring in a phazer.
Whimsicott @ Leftovers
EV's: 252 HP, 252 Spd, 4 Def
Stun Spore
U-Turn
Leech Seed
Encore
Gives free switches... and Leech Seed.... and set - up.
EV's: 252 HP, 252 Spd, 4 Def
Stun Spore
U-Turn
Leech Seed
Encore
Gives free switches... and Leech Seed.... and set - up.
Um...if it sets up, you encore. You have priority encore. If you leech seed while they dragon dance, you encore, u-turn, and kill. There is no misprediction involved when your encore has priority.
What if they switch to an Espeon and then a Shadow Tag Chandelure?
Magic Bounce reflects Encore but the move fails, Whimsicott has U-Turn and Shadow Tag Chandelure doesn't exist.
If you see either on team preview, u-turning right off the bat is a no-brainer. Also, shadow tag chandelure isn't something you even have to consider since, you know, it doesn't exist and all that.
edit: ninjad by a full hour, learn to read green mage kthx
Actually wouldn't Shadow Tag Chandelure hate the idea of being paralyzed and seeded?