Wikileaks

[Cerozero]

You guys seem a little out of the loop. I'm here to help bring you up to speed.

WikiLeaks cables: Shell boasts it has infiltrated Nigerian government

Perhaps something actually damning has come out of Wikileaks after all. State department knew that taxpayer funded corporation DynCorp "helped pimp out little boys as sex slaves to stoned cops in Afghanistan" and tried to hush it up.

Leaked cable shows how closely the US cooperated with China to sink the Copenhagen climate summit. Thanks, Wikileaks. Wouldn't have known this without you.

PayPal Busted for Bogus Wikileaks Excuse

WikiLeaks payment firm to sue Visa, MasterCard

Wikileaks. Brazil's President Lula defends Assange: "Instead of blaming someone who has disclosed these documents, those who wrote them should be blamed"

 

[Toothache]

I'm glad you brought the focus back to the real issues at hand, Cerozero. It's also interesting to note the public support from such leaders as the Brazilian president and Putin. I'm not sure how helpful or otherwise the Anonymous DDoS attacks are being, but at least Visa and Mastercard realise that people are not happy with their decision to suspend donations to Wikileaks. I'm also looking at my own PayPal account and wondering if I should close it.

EDIT: I very much love evan right now for his post. An injection of common sense ftw

 

[Cerozero]

I canceled my PayPal account after they froze WL's donations. I don't normally support anonymous but it makes me happy to hear anon took PayPal down again last night.

 

[TheAmazingFlygon]

Assange is a consumate dirtbag, it is true, and he did release documents against the only major world power he knows is not going to make him "dissapear."

Then of course he got too bold for his britches and said he might release the documents of the Ruskies and the Chinese. That's the reason he turned himself into Scotland Yard, I'd wager. Oh, he still wants to bluff the US by saying if something happens to him more people will dump the documents he already promised to release, but lets face it, this coward knows he went a step too far.

Seeing as Assange isn't actually a US Citizen one can't really call him treasonous, but he's certainly done no favors to western democracies who by and large operate above the radar. Does anyone truly believe that after the Soviet Union collapsed America stopped having spies all over the world? Everybody already knew the gist of what was in the released documents, the problem is all the specific people he and his cohorts named who now have their safety compromised in addition to the untold diplomatic damage in general. Not that the UN was ever anything but a brood of vipers to begin with, but now they have a pretext to restart their bloviation on big bad bully America again.

The most important advice on all this for my compatriots comes from Glenn Beck. Basically, don't go balistic over these shocking revelations of stuff you already knew or could surmise by applying common sense. The entire point of Assange's document drop is to get the government to overreach by silencing and punishing this guy and in the process put in mechanisms far more effective at silencing and punishing you, the American citizen. Kind of like the new junk groping TSA procedures implemented after the panty bomber's failed attempt last Christmas.

Assange may be a collossal dirtbag who endangered untold numbers of people and undermined the security of western democracies, but the damage has already been done and anything further released will have diminishing returns. I am glad that Hillary Clinton in her role as Secretary of Scare does not let a single detail of the foreign ministers of friend and foe alike escape her sight. There is nothing hypocritical in protecting your nation's sovereignty by having full and complete information about both your allies and enemies. Unlike many nations, the US actually has global responsibilties to consider, and can't waste its Secretary of State's time on fat jokes and ethnocentric humor.

I hope that you know Fox News is the Pravda of USA? Also, I like how you simply throw as an introduction that Assange is, in your opinion, a ''dirtbag'' and that without any relevant argument you mention ''big bad bully America again'' like America was but the pure and noble example every country should follow for it is the country. Uptil now you have no form of arguments. Then you make a poor attempt at building one by paraphrasing Glenn Beck who by the way is not as a good and honest citizen as you might think he is nor is he an political intellectual what so ever. Finally you throw in the over popularized argument that WikiLeaks put in danger good old America... America isn't perfect, America has committed crimes before and simply releasing ''SECRET'' classified documents so the people can learn some truth about the government isn't a criminal act, nor is the people doing it traitors, scoundrels, etc.

 

[Shiny_Tyranitar]

i had to look it up, but i knew it it just wouldnt come to me Schenck v. United States (1919) I don't remember the irony though :( (was it something about how he was protesting being drafted and was getting sent off to war??)

Right, the irony was that his words advocating dodging WWI's draft was that it was a silly war, in a foreign country and we should avoid foreign entanglements. I.E. While Justice Holmes cites Schenck's actions as clear and present danger (or shouting fire in a crowded theater), his advocacy was more akin to standing outside of a burning theater yelling "don't go in there, there's a fire."

 

[Cerozero]

Have you seen where Wiki Leaks' servers are?

 

[Gabe]

Have you seen where Wiki Leaks' servers are?

That looks pretty amazing.

 

[Cshadow]

That really owns, a lot.

 

[MrIndigo]

http://bit.ly/eLTyU4

Well, not the best way to go about it.

 

[MrIndigo]

The concern I have is that all these recent hacks will lead to further clamp downs on the internet, especially when it comes to freedom of speech. Getting back to the topic at hand, this is also a concern for Wikileaks, since they use the internet to distribute their material and may find themselves in future blocked or closed down due to the reaction from upcoming cyber security legislation.

They'll be fighting an uphill battle to try.

Keep in mind, these things were already top secret, and they still got out. They were just sent to a foreign environment where they could get out onto the internet.

The only way 'clamp downs' could prevent this kind of thing happening is if one government seized control of the entire world and controlled/owned every aspect of the entire internet. It's never going to happen.

 

[Mailman]

How is Wikileaks any bad, all it is doing is exposing how corrupt the government is by releasing documents that hide all the terrible stuff that has happened. And as Ron Paul said: "Wasn't it once considered patriotic to stand up to the government when it's wrong?"

 

[Cerozero]

Keep in mind, these things were already top secret...

That's a bit of a stretch since 130,000 of the cables are unclassified, 100,000 are confidential, and 15,000 are secret. None of the leaked cables were top secret.

 

[Trax]

How is Wikileaks any bad, all it is doing is exposing how corrupt the government is by releasing documents that hide all the terrible stuff that has happened. And as Ron Paul said: "Wasn't it once considered patriotic to stand up to the government when it's wrong?"

You know it's scary when common sense and Ron Paul are in the same place at the same time, yet every other American politician seems to be disagreeing (Palin, Obama, etc etc).

 

[Mailman]

You know it's scary when common sense and Ron Paul are in the same place at the same time, yet every other American politician seems to be disagreeing (Palin, Obama, etc etc).

Indeed I don't usually agree with everything Paul says but he's spot on here.

 

[theamericandream38]

I do think that exposing corruption is a good thing, but it is foolishy naive to think that the American government is the only government that hides things from it's people. Every single government in the entire world is secretive and corrupt, and it is foolish to believe otherwise. Not a single politician in the world means a word they say, they simply parrot whomever is paying them the most or whatever will benefit them. I think it's rather sad that Assange believes anything other than this, and that he would single out the U.S. out of all the countries in the world. I guess I commend the exposition of the deception, but I do think that it should be done to every government equally.

http://bit.ly/eLTyU4

Well, not the best way to go about it.

This kind of behavior is rather sickening. I agree with the author of that article, it's simply incorrect to assume that the women are lying to try to ruin the repuation of Assange. It is equally incorrect to assume that he is guilty, of course, so the best thing to do would be to withold judgment until the matter has been settled in the courts.

 

[Morm]

Not a single politician in the world means a word they say, they simply parrot whomever is paying them the most or whatever will benefit them.

Are you Canadian? If so I reference you to Stockwell Day who very almost lead this country...no way was the shit coming from his mouth anything but his own inane babble. You definitely have some strong opinions there, but I can't help but wonder if there's a bit of hyperbole...yeah, governments are corrupt, pretty much every large scale human hierarchy has been since communities grew larger than 10 people per (or so). Politicking is a part of being a social species and being the best at politicking, or at least the most visible, means you hit the inevitable dipshit wall. Everyone fucks up, I wouldn't do better, so I close my mouth.

the best thing to do would be to withold judgment until the matter has been settled in the courts.

You act as if there is any less politicking involved in that than in politics and that his fate isn't already effectively sealed. Human nature is what it is, be it jury or judge, this guy is up shit creek without a paddle. The court system is just as, if not more, corrupt.

 

[Hipmonlee]

What makes you think Assange believes that tad? I must have missed that..

I havent taken the slightest bit of interest in what Assange thinks about governments, but if I had to guess I would assume he is just as cynical if not even more so about 95% of governments as he is about Americas.

Not that his views on anything are particularly worth focusing on, but I think you might be making a big assumption if you think he is singling out America. It is just that America is the place information has leaked from..

Unless I missed something, which I will be honest is very likely. Also, lets be honest America's government does have some unique challenges and faults that do sorta make it worth singling out in a lot of ways. And while there is a lot I strongly dislike about the New Zealand government, I do think it has much less of a corruption issue than America's.

The point is it is very easy to see hypocrisy where none exists. Yes, the Iranian government is much more deserving of criticism than America's, but we dont bother because that fact should be obvious to any idiot and criticising Iran here just serves no real purpose..

Have a nice day.

 

[theamericandream38]

What makes you think Assange believes that tad? I must have missed that..

I havent taken the slightest bit of interest in what Assange thinks about governments, but if I had to guess I would assume he is just as cynical if not even more so about 95% of governments as he is about Americas.

Not that his views on anything are particularly worth focusing on, but I think you might be making a big assumption if you think he is singling out America. It is just that America is the place information has leaked from..

Unless I missed something, which I will be honest is very likely. Also, lets be honest America's government does have some unique challenges and faults that do sorta make it worth singling out in a lot of ways. And while there is a lot I strongly dislike about the New Zealand government, I do think it has much less of a corruption issue than America's.

The point is it is very easy to see hypocrisy where none exists. Yes, the Iranian government is much more deserving of criticism than America's, but we dont bother because that fact should be obvious to any idiot and criticising Iran here just serves no real purpose..

Have a nice day.

True, perhaps there simply haven't been as many/as important of leaks from other governments, but it could also be that only people from the US were asked for secret information (from my understanding, the person who gave him the information didn't seek him out randomly and say "dude I really want to tell you about all the bad things my government does!!11!"). I dunno, I don't really want to play the "victim" role here, but it does seem odd that only the US was targeted.

Are you Canadian? If so I reference you to Stockwell Day who very almost lead this country...no way was the shit coming from his mouth anything but his own inane babble. You definitely have some strong opinions there, but I can't help but wonder if there's a bit of hyperbole...yeah, governments are corrupt, pretty much every large scale human hierarchy has been since communities grew larger than 10 people per (or so). Politicking is a part of being a social species and being the best at politicking, or at least the most visible, means you hit the inevitable dipshit wall. Everyone fucks up, I wouldn't do better, so I close my mouth.

No I am not Canadian, but I can completely understand what you mean. While it is true that every form of political structure is going to be corrupt/controlled by politicking, it is still rather sad to see the level to which it has gone in the modern world. I suppose I am simply disappointed that humans cannot think for themselves and have such weak wills to be controlled by others =[

You act as if there is any less politicking involved in that than in politics and that his fate isn't already effectively sealed. Human nature is what it is, be it jury or judge, this guy is up shit creek without a paddle. The court system is just as, if not more, corrupt.

Fair enough. There is certainly corruption in every form of human government, as was just discussed. I guess I still have some sort of hope that the justice system is the least affected by politicking of all the various forms of government, but unfortunately it may be one of the most affected. Again, disappointment with the human race as a whole =/

 

[cantab]

(from my understanding, the person who gave him the information didn't seek him out randomly and say "dude I really want to tell you about all the bad things my government does!!11!")

That is exactly how Wikileaks ordinarily operates (or at least, how it claims to.)

 

[Cerozero]

True, perhaps there simply haven't been as many/as important of leaks from other governments,

There have been huge leaks from other countries that caused huge waves the US is the only country who throws such an indignant tantrum when it's dirty laundry gets aired out.

but it could also be that only people from the US were asked for secret information (from my understanding, the person who gave him the information didn't seek him out randomly and say "dude I really want to tell you about all the bad things my government does!!11!"). I dunno, I don't really want to play the "victim" role here, but it does seem odd that only the US was targeted.

They don't seek people out they provide a secure outlet for whistle blowers.

Here is a list of non US leaks Wiki Leaks has published:

Wikileaks is a journalist organization who's mission is to help whistle blowers remain anonymous. Julian Assange, an Australian citizen, is the site's public figure. Here's a short list of previous publishings that wikileaks has been lauded for:

• Systematic killings and disappearances by the Kenyan Government; this leak changed the Kenyan election.
• Illegal Cayman Island activities of the Swiss Bank Julius Baer.
• Mass corruption in the Icelandic government just prior to the economic collapse
• Iranian nuclear facility accident (related to the Stuxnet worm)

 

[MrIndigo]

http://sowhyiswikileaksagoodthingagain.com/

 

[Firestorm]

It's not odd at all that the US has the most leaks. They are by far the most powerful nation in the world. The US' reaction is also very over-the-top getting it the most coverage.

 

[Morm]

Again, disappointment with the human race as a whole =/

Welcome to my daily regime of thinking. Try as a might, hate it as much as I do, I am inescapably human and inescapably obligated to all the social issues both biologically and culturally imposed. I suspect our boy is totally fucked. I also find it a nice coincidence that women just came forward to call him a sexual predator now, of all times to do it. It may be legit, but at the same time if they can't democratically nail him for his site they can at least use this to put him away for a decent amount of time. How fortuitous. Sadly for them, it'll just cut the head off of the Hydra.

 

[vcordie]

I'm a strong supporter of what Wikileaks is doing, however I am really disappointed that really nobody cares that the government lied and covered so many things up. The fact that the news is simply reporting on the webmasters history disgusts and infuriates me.

 

[Morm]

I'm a strong supporter of what Wikileaks is doing, however I am really disappointed that really nobody cares that the government lied and covered so many things up. The fact that the news is simply reporting on the webmasters history disgusts and infuriates me.

If a news agency were to report on any of the wikileaks findings, I wonder what would happen to them? Pretty self explainitory