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With Garchomp Now in Uber....
- Thread starter andreds
- Start date
Yeah, I suppose Mamo will have to do. That's the next best thing!
Ugh, Mamoswine. He certainly is a threat, but he can't take hits for shit with all those weaknesses and like no resists outside of electric, and truly mediocre defenses. On paper he looks tough, and in practice he's offensively powerful (especially late game where he can rape), but it just does not last the way garchomp does. Ice shard's pathetic base power means mamo will always be kind more of an anti-meta poke than a full blown sweeper.
Guess what I'm saying is that while he's certainly a good pokemon, switching in and loling like Garchomp did is not what he does best. Fuck even flygon is better at this imo, because at least flygon has the resistances (very nice resistances I might add). Swampert again also has nice resists, but that celebi is just a problem. >>
Guess what I'm saying is that while he's certainly a good pokemon, switching in and loling like Garchomp did is not what he does best. Fuck even flygon is better at this imo, because at least flygon has the resistances (very nice resistances I might add). Swampert again also has nice resists, but that celebi is just a problem. >>
Your para absorber doesn't have to be a ground type you know. Something bulky that isn't outspeeding anything anyway can do just fine. Pokemon with priority moves also work, and so do electric absorbers.
You can get creative with the Lum berry, too. Something that can set up on status can really throw a wrench in a dude's gears. As a quick example, about 10 minutes ago I switched Weavile into a Blissey Ice Beam, SDed on the wave to activate the Lum, and Pursuited as it switched to the Heatran I knew was coming. It works even better with Celebi's Grass Knot.
You can get creative with the Lum berry, too. Something that can set up on status can really throw a wrench in a dude's gears. As a quick example, about 10 minutes ago I switched Weavile into a Blissey Ice Beam, SDed on the wave to activate the Lum, and Pursuited as it switched to the Heatran I knew was coming. It works even better with Celebi's Grass Knot.
I think I mentioned in my post why I dislike relying on slow bulky pokes. Unless you're something that can hope for hax yourself, the opponent can always stall until you're parahax'd for a free turn.
Lum is something to consider (though you should remember you're foregoing another item). Overall though the reliability of a ground type is something of high value to me though.
Lum is something to consider (though you should remember you're foregoing another item). Overall though the reliability of a ground type is something of high value to me though.
I specifically stated in my post that it was an OU counter for garchomp. Lugia wasn't OU last time I checked.
My point being why would you need an OU counter for an Uber pokemon? And that you were off topic for the thread.
I've had massive problems coming into status moves such as Thunder Wave with high-offense teams now that Garchomp is gone. Switching into Blissey has become much, much harder. I've personally been toying around with Jolteon; I've actually found it surprisingly effective as whilst it can't do anything to Blissey once it gets in (which is a problem, as that's the only real reason I considered it in the first place) I've found throwing Choice Specs Thunderbolts around very effective, simply becuase the typical high-offensive teams for some reason rarely have any form of Electric resist. Sounds odd, but when you think about how there are very few of the Pokemon in the small pool of commonly used Pokemon in the bog-standard offensive team who can actually take on choiced Thunderbolts, you begin to see why it works so nicely. Furthermore, having something faster than Scizor that resists Bullet Punch and something faster than Skymin that can hit it hard with Hp Ice is always handy to have around.
Still, not being able to really hit Blissey and generally being deadweight against any team that isn't based around frail offense is a massive problem and for that reason alone I think I'm going to have to give Flygon a try. It's a shame that Scarf Flygon can't really come close to a 2HKO on Blissey without locking itself into Outrage, so CB Flygon is probably the way to go. If that doesn't work, there's always Rhyperior and Electivire... :s
Still, not being able to really hit Blissey and generally being deadweight against any team that isn't based around frail offense is a massive problem and for that reason alone I think I'm going to have to give Flygon a try. It's a shame that Scarf Flygon can't really come close to a 2HKO on Blissey without locking itself into Outrage, so CB Flygon is probably the way to go. If that doesn't work, there's always Rhyperior and Electivire... :s
LOL. OH NO NOT THAT ONE! I recently have been finding it hard to hit blissey. I don't have much that can do more than 70 / 80% to it. I have Gyarados who can DD. I have Mamoswine (The best so far, as he can EQ without the fear of T-Wave). I have Specs Luke and I have Slamence. Scarf Outrage doesn't KO blissey iirc, so without boosts I only have Mamoswine to absorb the Thunder Waves. And seeing as I lead with that anyway, it may not be around to take them. Blissey is definately going to become more popular in the long term i believe.
electric and rock resists are the two I find harder and harder to encorporate. That alone is probably one big reason why metagross' usage is still higher than scizor's.
Well I think Flygon is a great choice if you need a way to avoid t-wave. It has a resistance to the only entry hazard that can affect it, has the same typing as chomp, and can do enough damage to scare out common t-wavers. Though it is not scoring any 6-0's like chomp, it can still screech or sub on the switch to keep the pressure on your opponent.
Flygon needs huge ev investment to get anywhere close to 6hp/0/0 garchomp, can't beat blissey, celebi, rotom or zapdos if any of them happens to be carrying an ice attack. Though, that doesn't mean I don't agree that it's one of the better options.
First off, Flygon has near little use other than para absorber good resists with 100 BP Att and Speed, and Outrage, but average defences. I rather use Dragonite with Lum Berry.
Generally, most Thunderwaves are cast by Blissey. It's a perfect opportunity for CB Adamant Hera to absorb and gain a Guts boost, he got outspeed by many things anyways and doesn't the Speed drop. Have 104 Hlth and 152 Speed (to outspeed Tar when not Paralysed), max attack obviously.
Can use Electrivire. He's walled too easily by Rotom but otherwise, Cresselia and Dusknoir should be seen less, he can make a comeback to be as popular as his best friend Gyara.
Even though salamence might not be as sturdy (on the physical side it can take hits better becase of intimidate) as Garchomp usually, and lacks sand veil and Stab EQ, I still think its a more formidable offense now that it has outrage. I barely ever used EQ because most people predict and switch toa flying type.
Now Salamence has a small bit of extra attack and a very scary special attack compared to Garchomp. An LO Draco meteor/Outrage combo with a meteor that actually hurts a ton is scary.
At staying in and being all around annoying to kill though (sand veil no ice OHKO due to Yache), Salamence can't compare to garchomp, but it can hit harder.
Now Salamence has a small bit of extra attack and a very scary special attack compared to Garchomp. An LO Draco meteor/Outrage combo with a meteor that actually hurts a ton is scary.
At staying in and being all around annoying to kill though (sand veil no ice OHKO due to Yache), Salamence can't compare to garchomp, but it can hit harder.
Does anyone think that Chomp might come back in OU due to him not gaining any improvements in Plat whilst some Pokemon gained Outrage, giving them OHKO potential? I think its unlikely, but its possible. If Skymin becomes OU, she counters common Chomp variants (can swap in, survive a SD Dragon Claw (or CB Dragon Claw)) and OHKO with Timid Specs Seed Flare if SR is in play. Such a decision probably wont be considered for a while though.
Not for a long time. Smogon has lots of tests it wants to run, and Chomp'll be sitting "in the shoot" for a long time. Heck, he might have to wait until after ho-oh testing. haha
You could also say that Haban Berry (I think that is the right berry) Salamence can come in and survive any attack and then KO back with Draco Meteor. But that doesn't really change it's status. It has already been established that Non STAB outrage is not fun to use and will not do anything to anything except for to garchomp. Why do you think TTar has never run Outrage?
Garchomp won't be retested for a while. I don't think platinum has changed much, except for the fact that Scizor will be used more because before Garchomp would have been pretty much able to switch in to scizor, just as it could to things like SD Lucario to stop a sweep. Thus proving that Banning Garchomp has once again opened the Metagame up to more and varied threats, now that Garchomp is gone.
>>
If the threats have become more varied, doesn't that mean we accomplished exactly what we were aiming for in banning garchomp? >>
If the threats have become more varied, doesn't that mean we accomplished exactly what we were aiming for in banning garchomp? >>
Ok again to be fair though, you can't compare the current OU list to previous ones, since they were calculated/compiled by completely different procedures.
IE-- in terms of numbers, you need a more in-depth analysis to know if the metagame became more or less centralized now than it was before.
I'm not considering this reliable; the chomp ban and plat changes only came part way through the stat checkings. Chomp's ban may have allowed for more diversity of pokemon, but plat changes will probably lower that, considering how much more common Skymin, Scizor, Heatran and Trick are. Skymin is functioning similarly to Chomp in the sense that it is narrowing the selection of pokemon used (no one can deny Registeel usage has massively increased, and Chomp isn't the main reason for that). I'll expect the list to lower soon.
My bets are Alakazam, Spiritomb and Donphan will be BL again, probably some others too. However, if Skymin becomes uber (I think she should, but this isn't the place to discuss it), the OU list will expand again.
OK OK, Let's wait and see over the next couple of months. One thing I HAVE noticed definately though, if the large increase in the number of theme teams. I have seen many MANY Rain Dance Teams, quite a few Trick Room Teams, even some NFE Trick Rooms teams, and I have seen those more than once as well. This is not just Statistical noise. People want to try to do something different, now that you dont have to build your team around Garchomp, people are becoming a lot more varied in the Pokemon they use. Unfortunately we cannot use the statistics to back up our argument (as you kindly pointed out xP) so we have to resort to more subjective views of the metagame, that is at least, what I have senn.
I've found Jolteon to be the best replacement for an Electric absorber. Specs Jolteon at that.